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CarpeGuitarrem
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:58 am
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 3361 Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
Okay, so I’ve been reading up a little on M:TG, and one of the cool little aspects of it that I’ve found is something called the "Color Wheel". Essentially, it divvies up the game’s cards into the basic cultures based upon their abilities and effects.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/mtgcom/fcpics/taste/mc3_pie.jpg

I like this idea, especially the concept of cultural enforcement that doesn’t actually require cultural enforcement. Instead, cards are grouped together by what they do. So...here’s my idea. What if we arranged the cultures of LOTR (Freeps and Shadow seperately) into a version of the Color Wheel, and used that to make all-new DCs for LOTR? I could even envision a brand-new base set, starting all over...

Anyhow, I figure that Freeps would be easiest. So...let the discussion begin!

Dwarven
Elven
Gandalf
Gollum
Gondor
Rohan
Shire

I figure that these different cultures can focus on many different aspects of gameplay...for example, threats, burdens, different phases, different card types...
"ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm)
NBarden
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:06 am
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
Dwarves: Damage...duh. Discarding, but that’s also in others so it wouldn’t work.
Elven: Um...lowering minions strength. Telepathy mechanisms (revealing cards from the top of your deck).
Gandalf: None really. Random jumbles. Unhasty for ents?
Gollum: Site path control, conditions!
Rohan: Um....mounted?
Shire: Cancelling skirmishes.
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BattleWarg
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:36 am
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 579 Location:
Definitly an interesting thought...

Perhaps:
Dwarven - Heavy damage in fights (i.e. damage bonuses), knocking down opponent’s deck (don’t see it quite as much anymore, though...)
Elven - Omniscience (revealing cards that aren’t normally seen), Archers, weaking minions without damage
Gandalf - Support (Decent in most things, giving support to any culture’s weakness, but could be better)
Gollum - Sneaking in (small fellowship, has abilities to move quickly and surviving or evading minions when it should be impossible otherwise), Decent with Shire specialties
Gondor - Recovery (such as healing), skill (high strength and defender bonuses, but few damage bonuses)
Rohan - Backup (gets support out of fellowship phase), Defense (able to keep things that would be taken/discarded - keep possessions out, liberate sites, etc.)
Shire - Resistance (burden control), Stealth (avoid battle, but few tricks once the battle starts)

What I meant with the Gandalf giving support is something like this:

For any ability that a culture has, the order of skill should be something like:
Best - Pure [Culture]
Very Good - [Culture]/Gandalf
Strong - Pure Gandalf or [Culture]/[anything else]
Okay - Gandalf/[anything else]
Bad - Pure [anything else]

So Gandalf cards should duplicate most things, but not quite as well as any other culture does, and would be intended to be used to back up the weaknesses of another culture.
The reason pure Gandalf and [Culture]/[anything else] are about the same, is that the Gandalf deck has more space for each thing it’s attempting, while the other has roughly half the space it normally would.
sickofpalantirs
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:34 pm
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 7750 Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
IDK if i quite understand what you are getting at but,
CarpeGuitarrem wrote:


Dwarven
dwarven discard, beatdown.
Elven
Archery, telepathy, hunter
Gandalf
beatdown, splash
Gollum
solo
Gondor
knights, IB,
Rohan
assign ring-bearer, beatdown
Shire
beatdown

I figure that these different cultures can focus on many different aspects of gameplay...for example, threats, burdens, different phases, different card types...
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"DáinIronfoot"
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CarpeGuitarrem
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:08 pm
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 3361 Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
BattleWarg wrote:
Definitly an interesting thought...

Perhaps:
Dwarven - Heavy damage in fights (i.e. damage bonuses), knocking down opponent’s deck (don’t see it quite as much anymore, though...)
Elven - Omniscience (revealing cards that aren’t normally seen), Archers, weaking minions without damage
Gandalf - Support (Decent in most things, giving support to any culture’s weakness, but could be better)
Gollum - Sneaking in (small fellowship, has abilities to move quickly and surviving or evading minions when it should be impossible otherwise), Decent with Shire specialties
Gondor - Recovery (such as healing), skill (high strength and defender bonuses, but few damage bonuses)
Rohan - Backup (gets support out of fellowship phase), Defense (able to keep things that would be taken/discarded - keep possessions out, liberate sites, etc.)
Shire - Resistance (burden control), Stealth (avoid battle, but few tricks once the battle starts)

What I meant with the Gandalf giving support is something like this:

For any ability that a culture has, the order of skill should be something like:
Best - Pure [Culture]
Very Good - [Culture]/Gandalf
Strong - Pure Gandalf or [Culture]/[anything else]
Okay - Gandalf/[anything else]
Bad - Pure [anything else]

So Gandalf cards should duplicate most things, but not quite as well as any other culture does, and would be intended to be used to back up the weaknesses of another culture.
The reason pure Gandalf and [Culture]/[anything else] are about the same, is that the Gandalf deck has more space for each thing it’s attempting, while the other has roughly half the space it normally would.

Very cool ideas, BattleWarg! I think you’ve got the hang of this.

NBarden and SoP, this isn’t really about going over the strengths of the current cultures. Mostly, it’s about making new culture strengths, ones that rely less on cultural enforcement.

Here’s a list of things that might be used:
Concepts
Burdens
Threats
Archery
Wounding
Twilight
Roaming Minions
Tokens

And then you can also use phases...
"ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm)
menace64
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:04 pm
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 836 Location: Wichita, Kansas
Maybe I’ll miss the premise here, but I’ll still give it a whirl.

First, as big a list of ’things’ as I can come up with.

Removing burdens
Removing threats
Removing twilight
Adding to the fellowship archery
Reducing the shadow archery
Exerting minions
Wounding minions
Increasing site numbers
Reducing strength
Reducing vitality
Adding culture tokens
Removing culture tokens
Protection from minions
Protection from events
Protection from conditions
Protection from possessions
Protection from artifacts
Strong with companions
Strong with events
Strong with conditions
Strong with possessions
Strong with artifacts
Strong with followers
Strong with allies (Maybe?)
Revealing cards from shadow hands
Revealing cards from shadow decks
Revealing cards from your own deck
Discarding cards from shadow hands
Discarding cards from shadow decks
Discarding cards from your own deck
Strong fellowship phase cards
Strong maneuver phase cards
Strong archery phase cards
Strong assignment phase cards
Strong skirmish phase cards
Strong regroup phase cards
Strong response cards
Cheap cost-for-effect cards
Cheap damage bonuses
Cheap strength bonuses
Cheap keyword removal

And if I missed anything, feel free to add on. Note that those are only positive aspect of the FP side of the wheel. Making a good negative list from that shouldn’t be too hard.

Well now I’m in the mood, so here is a list for the Shadow side of the wheel.

Adding burdens
Adding threats
Adding twilight
Reducing the fellowship archery
Adding to the shadow archery
Exerting companions
Wounding companions
Decreasing site numbers
Reducing strength
Reducing vitality
Adding culture tokens
Removing culture tokens
Protection from companions
Protection from events
Protection from conditions
Protection from possessions
Protection from artifacts
Protection from followers
Protection from allies (Maybe?)
Strong with minions
Strong with events
Strong with conditions
Strong with possessions
Strong with artifacts
Revealing cards from FP hand
Revealing cards from FP deck
Revealing cards from your own deck
Revealing cards from other Shadow decks
Discarding cards from FP hand
Discarding cards from FP deck
Discarding cards from your own deck
Discarding cards from other Shadow decks
Strong shadow phase cards
Strong maneuver phase cards
Strong archery phase cards
Strong assignment phase cards
Strong skirmish phase cards
Strong regroup phase cards
Strong response cards
Cheap cost-for-effect cards
Cheap damage bonuses
Cheap strength bonuses
Cheap keyword removal

I won’t get *too* specific with things like "Strong with fierce", "Strong with muster" and the like, but those things all fall into the wheel.
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BattleWarg
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:18 pm
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 579 Location:
Wow...

As a thought using that, could have a range of 1-10 (as an example) for each culture, and get points (5 per thing?) and assign them to those. The lower the score, the worse, with 1 being having maybe a single card that does it, and its probably has a condition to pull it off, while 10 is almost automatic.

For exerting/wounding minions (as an example), a card with 5 might say "Maneuver: Spot 2 Gondor Men (or exert a Gondor Man) to exert a minion."
A card with 1 might say "Maneuver: Exert 2 Gondor Men to exert 2 unwounded minions." or "Maneuver: Exert a Gondor Man to remove (3). Any shadow player may exert a minion to prevent this."
A card with 10 might have "Maneuver: Spot a Gondor Man to wound a minion. If that minion was unwounded, you may wound it again.
menace64
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:01 pm
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 836 Location: Wichita, Kansas
That’s what I was thinking, BattleWarg, except a scale of 0-4 might be easier.

0 - No Aptitude
1 - Very Little Aptitude
2 - Little Aptitude
3 - Moderate Aptitude
4 - Exceptional Aptitude

So, for directed archery-phase wounding:

Dwarven - 1
Elven - 4
Gandalf - 2
Gondor - 3
Rohan - 2
Shire - 0

And, for cancelling skirmishes:

Dwarven - 0
Elven - 0
Gandalf - 1
Gondor - 1
Rohan - 2
Shire - 4

Healing during the fellowship phase:
Dwarven - 2
Elven - 3
Gandalf - 4
Gondor - 3
Rohan - 2
Shire - 4

And so on...
Riddle 9
When I came to Abraham I let him live just a moment longer. When I came to Moses I saved his life more than once. But the salmon... I regret to say I had a hand in its death.

Who am I?
menace64
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:11 am
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 836 Location: Wichita, Kansas
Here are some more Shadow attributes.

Stacking minions
Healing minions
Discarding companions
Discarding possessions
Discarding conditions
Discarding artifacts
Discarding followers/allies
Assigning minions
Strong against unbound companions
Strong against Ring-bound companions
Reducing resistance

Um yeah... this really can go on forever!
Riddle 9
When I came to Abraham I let him live just a moment longer. When I came to Moses I saved his life more than once. But the salmon... I regret to say I had a hand in its death.

Who am I?
NBarden
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:28 am
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
menace64 wrote:
That’s what I was thinking, BattleWarg, except a scale of 0-4 might be easier.

0 - No Aptitude
1 - Very Little Aptitude
2 - Little Aptitude
3 - Moderate Aptitude
4 - Exceptional Aptitude

So, for directed archery-phase wounding:

Dwarven - 1
Elven - 4
Gandalf - 2
Gondor - 3 I disagree. Ithilien Blade? Ring-bound wounding?
Rohan - 2 I disagree. 3.
Shire - 0

And, for cancelling skirmishes:

Dwarven - 0
Elven - 0 1. They do have the voice of nimrodel
Gandalf - 1
Gondor - 1
Rohan - 2
Shire - 4

Healing during the fellowship phase:
Dwarven - 2
Elven - 3 Again, 4. Elves have legendary healing!
Gandalf - 4
Gondor - 3 4. Definitely. Houses of Healing, Ring of Barahir, Athelas, Kingsfoil, etc. they got good healing.
Rohan - 2
Shire - 4

And so on...
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Popcorn Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about? Shocked
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Arrow Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation.

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