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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:33 pm |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2256
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The next card I have on my list is this one:
Let’s remind ourselves of the rules here.
We’ll only deal with cards that are obviously broken or overpowered (though there will clearly be some disagreement on that), and we’ll go about it in the following way:
1) Post any ideas we have for errata (on the card in question) in this thread
2) Then I’ll add a poll with the various different opinions represented, and we’ll vote on them.
3) After a decision has clearly been reached, we’ll move onto the next card (moving in number order).
There are also some general rules to consider:
1) If possible, changing a card is better than X-ing a card
2) That said, changing any more than a few words or a sentence will make it hard for people to remember, and so should be minimised, if we go for that at all
3) We’re not dealing with rubbish or cards worded incorrectly, as the former are too subjective and the latter have obvious solutions that we don’t need to deal with (like the card that gives you a defender bonus in the maneuver phase only).
I have 1 issue with this card. The first ability is fine, I have no problem with it, and I doubt anyone else will either. My problem is that is says ’follower’, which currently includes all cultures of follower and Saruman, Servant of Sauron.
My suggestion for this card is:
Rewrite the second ability "Regroup: Discard a  follower from play to..."
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:38 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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I don’t see why this should get errata. The  culture does pretty much the same, doens’t it? Letting you exert THEIR Smeagol and such nasty tricks, right? So, being Gandalf and Saruman both Wizards (thus, sharing some things in common), then I don’t see why this card couldn’t affect the Saruman follower. |
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| Apopatos |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:39 pm |
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Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Hellas
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I don’t understand... why is his special ability so bad? 
Gondor and Rohan discards the shadow follower pretty easily, why shouldn’t Gandalf race too?
Another way to eliminate Frenzy Arrows as well! |
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| AnxiousChieftain |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:47 pm |
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3947
Location: Maryland
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You may be alone in thinking that he should be changed, Foresight. Enough other Freeps cards can discard followers that I don’t think anything needs to be done about it. Saruman can still be useful since you still get a turns use out of him and can abuse Isengard Ruined for a double exertion.
- AC |
| MODS RULE. - lem0nhead |
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| raptor22 |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:54 pm |
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 196
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| With the concern over Saruman, Servant of Sauron comboing with Frenzy of Arrows, I don’t really think that this is a problem. |
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| sickofpalantirs |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:02 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| I don’t see why it needs to be done either. though if you want to fine by me, |
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| MichaelFriedman1 |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:07 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 3
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| The culture needs to have some card to dump followers in case of follower hate. |
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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:10 pm |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2256
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I have serious problems with this card and ALL of the horns, and whisper in the dark and frenzy of arrows, so I’ll try to explain myself (and I’m not Foresight, AC, but I’ll consider it a compliment!)
1) If you don’t specify followers by culture you end up with broken combos like new chapter and Erkenbrand’s horn. This should be avoided at all costs, and Decipher were shooting themselves in the foot when they made all those followers and support cards without enough cultural enforcement - they were tempting something like this to happen.
2) Followers were built to replace allies because they were very hard to make balanced versions of, so I don’t see why we should now let followers take their place in that respect, as with the horns and their ridiculously ’rainbow’ nature, I would argue they are no longer balanced.
3) Yes there is a smeagol/gollum synergy, and yes there are cards that say simply ’wizard’, but those are different issues. When dealing with followers of any culture, it’s comparable to removing the  bit on the axe of erebor, for example, allowing you to discard ANY condition to boost Gimli’s strength. I don’t think any of you will deny how powerful that card would be, and I pose the same argument for followers.
4)Saruman, Servant of Sauron is (and should be) a powerful card, and with all the horns and the librarian discarding him left, right and centre he actually becomes useless, and this should not happen.
5) The horns, whisper in the dark and frenzy of arrows are DEFINITELY on my list, and I’m hoping we’ll change them so followers aren’t in this dire straight, and then this errata won’t seem so out of place.
Those are some of my arguments, and I believe very strongly in cards being culturally enforced lest they be overpowered.
Obviously, if I’m outvoted, I will accept defeat, but at the very least I think it should say ’Free Peoples follower’.
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V) |
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| AnxiousChieftain |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:50 pm |
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 3947
Location: Maryland
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Thranduil wrote: (and I’m not Foresight, AC, but I’ll consider it a compliment!)
Sorry.... with everyone changing their avatars at once I have no idea who’s who anymore.
Thranduil wrote: it’s comparable to removing the bit on the axe of erebor[/b] .... I don’t think any of you will deny how powerful that card would be
It wouldn’t really make much of a difference to Axe of Erebor. If they want to pack their deck with say 30 Free Peoples conditions that cost 0 just to discard them with Axe of Erebor, then more power to them.
Thranduil wrote: 4)Saruman, Servant of Sauron is (and should be) a powerful card, and with all the horns and the librarian discarding him left, right and centre he actually becomes useless, and this should not happen.
Saruman doesn’t become useless. I would still play him to transfer at Isengard Ruined for a double-exertion on anyone I want, and then he could add to Frenzy of Arrows for a turn before being discarded. And it’s not like this guy or the Horns are going to be seeing all that much use since they have to go in a follower deck unless they’re being used only to counter Saruman (which would in turn make them useless agaisnt a deck without Saruman).
I say leave all the cards that can discard any follower as they are.
- AC |
| MODS RULE. - lem0nhead |
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| Piecesofeight |
![]() Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:31 pm |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 71
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| The card is fine, dont go overboard with errata/bannings. |
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