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October 28, 2008, 04:37:24 PM
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Kralik

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Random Questions
« on: October 28, 2008, 04:37:24 PM »
1) If you have A Light in His Mind in play, 1 hobbit on the table and 4 cards in hand...
If you play a hobbit from hand do you get to remove a burden? In other words, do you lose initiative before or after the hobbit is officially in play?

2) With The Binding Ring, can you add two burdens even if you don't have a ring to play from your draw deck? (Pay the cost for no effect?) Similarly, can you return WoBaS to hand even if there are no roaming minions?

3) Other than with Consorting with Wizards, why would anyone want to play with Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled?! (OK, so that wasn't exactly a rules question :P)

October 28, 2008, 05:00:51 PM
Reply #1

NappyKorn

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 05:00:51 PM »
1) I would assume that as soon as the hobbit comes out of hand you lose iniative since you no longer have 4 cards in hand even before it hits the table. Of course this is using logic and we all no real logic doesn't matter in TCGs.

2) Yes, you can pay the cost of something even with no effect. Another example would be exerting The Mouth of Sauron to play a [men] possessions or [men] condition. You have to exert him before you even get the chance to look through your draw deck and even if you have none left to play the exertion sticks.

3) No idea, I actually wondered what the purpose of playing your tales in the regroups phase over the fellowship phase would help anyway. I would rather play them and get the use of them that turn than have to play them and either double to use them or wait until the next turn. I guess if you had a good way of drawing cards (via Cock-Robin) you might get lucky and draw a few tales for if you planned on doubling :up:.

Hope this helps.
If a Balrog falls from a bridge and noone is around, does it make a sound?

October 28, 2008, 05:35:10 PM
Reply #2

Thranduil

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 05:35:10 PM »
1) If you have A Light in His Mind in play, 1 hobbit on the table and 4 cards in hand...
If you play a hobbit from hand do you get to remove a burden? In other words, do you lose initiative before or after the hobbit is officially in play?
Now I'm not sure, but I think you do. There's no stack in lotr, so I think the game sees the following:

1) You play a [Shire] companion from your hand
2) You have now lost initiative and so A Light in His Mind looks for [Shire] companions to trigger.
3) A Light in His Mind finds 2 [Shire] companions, and so you remove a burden.

Of course, this is just my instinct and I have no idea whether the rules even have an answer to this - they're very vague on precise timing.

2) With The Binding Ring, can you add two burdens even if you don't have a ring to play from your draw deck? (Pay the cost for no effect?) Similarly, can you return WoBaS to hand even if there are no roaming minions?
Absolutely; NK had this covered. This is what makes WoBaS so amazing in Inspiration decks! :hey:

3) Other than with Consorting with Wizards, why would anyone want to play with Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled?! (OK, so that wasn't exactly a rules question :P)
Actually, yes: Red Book of Westmarch. Obviously, in that sort of deck there would be no reason not to play Consorting with Wizards, but if you didn't have it the deck would still be very viable. As for his regroup ability, I have once or twice used it in my tale deck to play another copy of There and Back Again after discarding it. Other than that, I don't much see the point.

Thranduil

October 28, 2008, 05:48:33 PM
Reply #3

NappyKorn

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 05:48:33 PM »
3) Perhaps an iniative losing deck would benefit from this. Brooding on tomorrow doesn't work in the fellowship phase so maybe if you had a nice hobbit deck using muster you could discard to lose iniative draw to regain it then if you grabbed a tale play it to lose iniative again and just repeat until all your muster was spent. Then run Gandalf's hat to mop up all the twilight you just spent and then perhaps A Light in His mind would peel those burdens added from Gandalf's Hat :up:. I don't really know if it would work or be worth the trouble, but you did ask for some ways to play Bilbo, Bearer of Things Burgled :up:.
If a Balrog falls from a bridge and noone is around, does it make a sound?

October 28, 2008, 05:53:30 PM
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Pepin The Breve

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 05:53:30 PM »
  I´m with Nk on this. You can think this way:

  You loose initiative as soon as you play the hobbit so you can assume that this two things occur at the same timing. the rules states that you must spot the requiriments to perform an efect before you play the card. So i guess it won´t trigger in this particular case.

   Other people have nailed the other question, but just to remember you:

"If you meet all the requirements and pay all the costs for playing a card, you may play that card even if the card will have no effect. Exception: If you perform an action that has playing a card from hand or discard pile as part of its effect, you must play that card. This exception applies to all kinds of actions and all the different ways you can play a card (except playing a card directly from your draw deck)."

    hope this helped.  :up:

October 28, 2008, 06:10:49 PM
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Kralik

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 06:10:49 PM »
Ah, that does help. Actually, I am building another deck that is based on initiative, and would involve both the Binding Ring and WoBaS. But let me get this straight -- if you can perform the effects of a card, you must, right? So if you do have a ring in your draw deck, you can't elect not to play it after adding two burdens?

October 28, 2008, 06:13:24 PM
Reply #6

TheJord

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 06:13:24 PM »
Yes the Rules say you must perform an effect to the maximum level possible.
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October 29, 2008, 08:24:45 AM
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Pepin The Breve

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 08:24:45 AM »
  Hey people, i have read what the CDR states about this and i guess Thranduil is rigth!

  At the last CDR we have an detailed action procedure about this issue. and the step number 4 says that the card you played are now "in play" then, at the next step, you respond to playing the card (or loosing initiative). Check the CDR and you may get it clear (although there is a lot of steps there).

October 30, 2008, 06:17:52 AM
Reply #8

Kralik

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2008, 06:17:52 AM »
You got it Pepin! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction -- the seven steps in the CRD make it pretty clear. :gp:

October 22, 2020, 04:15:03 AM
Reply #9

JamesCB

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2020, 04:15:03 AM »
This thread is like 12 years old, but I'm a little confused on number two. I thought the rules said (I can't find where, but my dad told me about it) that you can't perform an action that would have no effect. E.g. using Pathfinder to play the next site when it is already yours, or adding [3] to remove a burden with Narya when there are no burdens on the Ring-bearer.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 04:30:43 AM by JamesCB »

October 22, 2020, 06:43:38 AM
Reply #10

Thranduil

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2020, 06:43:38 AM »
12 years old! I had no idea what my password was but I reset it when I saw this question :)

I think you can definitely use Pathfinder to replace your own site. The parentheses say you can replace your opponent's site if necessary, meaning that it could certainly replace your own site.

I'm also pretty sure you can add [3] with Narya to do nothing.

Of course, I haven't played this game in approximately 12 years, but I believe what I said then: you can pay a cost even if it clearly has no effect.

October 22, 2020, 07:38:46 AM
Reply #11

TelTura

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2020, 07:38:46 AM »
https://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/effect

In particular, these are the relevant quotes:

Quote from: Comprehensive Rules 4.0
If the effect of a card or special ability requires you to perform an action and you cannot, you must perform as much as you can and ignore the rest. (See limit.)


Quote from: Comprehensive Rules 4.0
If you meet all the requirements and pay all the costs for playing a card, you may play that card even if the card will have no effect.

I suspect your dad is thinking about how you cannot pay part of the costs of something if you are unable to pay all of them, or something. I have been in games where Such A Weight To Carry was used repeatedly to add burdens as fuel for a Shire Countryside combo. I understand why it might be counterintuitive to "put on" the Ring over and over, but in the context of an action, costs and effects are atomic and completely decoupled from each other.
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December 05, 2020, 09:51:29 PM
Reply #12

ket_the_jet

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Re: Random Questions
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2020, 09:51:29 PM »
Similarly, Ever My Heart Rises can be used to discard your whole deck even if you can't take a free peoples card into hand; however, Beneath the Mountains cannot be used to discard your deck unless you are retrieving a weapon from your discard pile.
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