The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Lothlórien => Expanded => Topic started by: Panch on October 14, 2014, 07:48:19 PM
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My deck i regularly play in expanded. Thoughts?
Ring-bearer: Isildur, Bearer of Heirlooms
Ring: The One Ring, The Ring of Doom
Adventure deck:
Breeding Pit of Isengard
Cavern Entrance
Isengard Ruined
Rohan Uplands
Helm's Gate
Westfold Village
Window on the West
Trollshaw Forest
Sirannon Ruins
Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Alcarin, Warrior of Lamedon
1x Aragorn, Captain of Gondor
1x Boromir, Hero of Osgiliath
1x Garrison of Gondor
1x Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth
1x Ingold
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
3x Banner of Westernesse
1x Catapult
4x Gondor Bow
1x Knight's Mount
1x Knight's Spear
3x Sapling of the White Tree
1x Scroll of Isildur
2x Citadel of the Stars
4x Fifth Level
4x Fourth Level
1x Garrison of Osgiliath
3x Sixth Level
1x Stone Tower
1x Strong and Old
Shadow Draw Deck:
1x Grima, Wormtongue
3x Following Uruk
3x Mauhur, Relentless Hunter
2x Sentry Uruk
1x Shagrat, Tower Captain
4x Ugluk, Ugly Fellow
4x White Hand Guard
4x White Hand Scout
2x White Hand Taskmaster
1x Vile Pit
1x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
1x Final Triumph
4x Violent Hurl
1x You Do Not Know Fear
2x Tracking the Prize
2x With All Possible Speed
1x Saruman, Servant of Sauron
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well my thoughts are that mono gondor, especially knights, in expanded tend to suffer much than others fp and that's why:
1) monoculture hate
2) heavy archery (3 saplings in a whole deck are not gonna save you)
3) not much healing (considering you have the exertions for Sixt levels)
4) heavy condition shadows (or shadow with crucial conditions, like Goblin Hordes for new orcs)
5) heavy site manipulation (you have nothing to help or save you, both in fp or shadow)
6) corruption deck( against a decent corruption the scroll may help you only survive one more site, and i'm not talking from 8 to 9)
imho knights are not suited for expanded, too many weakness. They can be competitive? Yes sure, but the need many tweaks and cards to respond to all the possible weakness they have, and that cost much precious card rooms in a deck, wich becomes larger and larger, lessening the deck funtionality and theme.
I have a movie deck with knights and even if it misses the great boromir, it still does better than in exp format.
Some advice:
- i'll consider taking out the catapult (only one copy and too randomic to be of some use when you really need it)
- add at least another strong and old, great vs. site control and huge twilight saving (at least 2 copy to draw it sooner and to replace it if it get's discarded)
- consider adding a 9 companion (from 8 to 9 don't change much; in my deck i have elendil (a possible triple move can always come in handy), with narsil and anduril for aragorn, those are great considering you have already many artifacts)
- you have banners( get 4 of those) and bows, no need for mount and spears (if you have those out nothing should survive skirmishes, plus a 3 card on companion only help grima clogging your hand.
- try to add some more healing (not much, but to be there to save you form emergency, like heavy archery or wounding) Might of Numenor, Much-needed Rest, Houses of Healing, Invigorated, Ranger of the North there are many choices, and surely something i forgot: just try something that suits you (event in fp, event in maneuver, conditions)
-some anti archery can help you both in fp and shadow (Shield of the White Tree can screw some shadow that need combo cards in hand and/or retrieve them)
For the shadow:
try to add more or cut some grimas (1 on a whole deck is nothing, and grima alone is so much situationally that most of the cases it's a dead card in your hand) that grima's works wonder vs dwarfs, but then only one it's not gonna hurt them much, in my expanded decks i have paired him with a nice Saruman's power to get rid of all those heavy fp conditions like hobbit hospital, 3 hunters, elves token, dwarves dmg and heal condition, gollum, gandalf companies, all of them without condition lose half the potential, someone more, someone less.
Much depends in how you feel comfortable with; in conclusion only one grima is almost useless, add more, or different of him (like Grima SoAM to help you vs nasty Wise guide or Gil-Galad loops), coupled with nasty event to disrupt the fp plans; otherwhise get rid of him and focus on other shadow cards that might hurt more, like Saruman, Servant of Sauron, adding more than one means two sure thing: you draw him much faster, and you can replace him if you use him and the minion dies.
You absolutely need to add some Broken in Defeat (at least 2, otherwhise a large fellowship will just run and laugh at you)
Lastly but not less important choose between Vile Pit or Final Triumph, they are situational, and having only one of both is not going to help you, choose one and focus on in, 2 or 3 vile pits to draw and maximize it's effect, or 2 or 3 Final Triumph with some other uruks condition/possession that modify health (Spear of the white Hand, Cleaved, those are the most useful/popular, there are other's but not much more efficent than those).
P.s. if you choose to go this way with Final Triump, obviously put aside the grima/ Saruman's ambition matter for obvious reasons.
Hope to be of some help.
-Vordan
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I'll agree on some of those points, but not all.
First off, Monoculture hate is not a thing. Monorace is and it's called Ulaire Nertea, Dark Horseman (so play Cursed of Erech-but really don't). No non archery targeted deck should ever play 1 race, especially if your RB is Isildur. That said, this deck does have this problem. I think it's half the reason Gandalf is so popular in Expanded-you now need a splash companion in most decks and he is the best with the support he provides. Manager of Wizards would allow you to play Hardy Garrison effectively, saving one exert from a Gondor Bow.
Secondly, this deck has 3 Banner of Westernese, Boromir and Alcarin. That's more than enough healing against archery, where one exert is often sufficient to take out a minion (6th level replaying the 5th you used) to give 2 heals.
That said, you need condition removal and I always recommend site manipulation (Gandalf does this bit well, too). I hate to say that about site manipulation, but it does make your life soooooooo much easier. Condition hate has been a thing since FotR block. Seriously, my Moria Archery deck will beat you every time unless your shadow gets insanely lucky. Why do people still insist that it's OK to ignore it in Expanded? Is it because Gollum tends to protect them, anyway (that's why I like Bilbo, WSG)?
Burden removal is also a toughie. GoTM kinda breaks corruption, but some people persist nevertheless, so again I'd say play Gandalf.
Basically play Gandalf, Smeagol, accept you will lose to many of the strongest shadows or ignore Expanded as a format. I've gone for the latter, but I do respect that some people love it. I'm sure I'll be back soon, but only once I've made Strength of Spirit a truly powerful strategy in FotR. See you in never, then :)
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I added a few cards as you can tell, thanks to both of you for lending insight ;D
Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Alcarin, Warrior of Lamedon
1x Aragorn, Captain of Gondor
1x Boromir, Hero of Osgiliath
1x Garrison of Gondor
1x Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth
1x Ingold
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
3x Banner of Westernesse
4x Gondor Bow
4x Sapling of the White Tree
1x Scroll of Isildur
1x Might of Numenor
2x Citadel of the Stars
4x Fifth Level
4x Fourth Level
1x Garrison of Osgiliath
3x Sixth Level
1x Stone Tower
2x Strong and Old
Shadow Draw Deck:
1x Grima, Wormtongue
3x Following Uruk
3x Mauhur, Relentless Hunter
2x Sentry Uruk
1x Shagrat, Tower Captain
4x Ugluk, Ugly Fellow
4x White Hand Guard
4x White Hand Scout
2x White Hand Taskmaster
1x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
1x Broken in Defeat
4x Violent Hurl
2x You Do Not Know Fear
2x Tracking the Prize
2x With All Possible Speed
1x Saruman, Servant of Sauron
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I tend to agree with those who say that Knights are weak in Expanded, mostly because they are dependent on having access to their fortifications, and thus tend to go down hard to anything that packs mass condition removal (of which there is a lot in Expanded).
Burden removal is also a toughie. GoTM kinda breaks corruption, but some people persist nevertheless, so again I'd say play Gandalf.
Basically play Gandalf, Smeagol, accept you will lose to many of the strongest shadows or ignore Expanded as a format.
If you really love Knights, I'd mostly echo the above sentiment: At the very least play Gandalf, I suggest Wise Guide, who can protect your conditions from some of that mass removal I was talking about. You might also consider Smeagol, but if you have sufficient Gandalf support, he can do site manipulation (and counter site manipulation) all by himself, so Smeagol isn't necessary.
I think it's possible to have a truly awesome Expanded Knight deck, but I admit I haven't really seen one yet. Those who play them in Leagues tend to pair it with a really strong Shadow and rely on a Shadow kill. I'd certainly NOT recommend ignoring Expanded as a format, since it is the most balanced of all the formats, and also has more variety than any other format.
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I tend to agree with those who say that Knights are weak in Expanded, mostly because they are dependent on having access to their fortifications, and thus tend to go down hard to anything that packs mass condition removal (of which there is a lot in Expanded).
Burden removal is also a toughie. GoTM kinda breaks corruption, but some people persist nevertheless, so again I'd say play Gandalf.
Basically play Gandalf, Smeagol, accept you will lose to many of the strongest shadows or ignore Expanded as a format.
If you really love Knights, I'd mostly echo the above sentiment: At the very least play Gandalf, I suggest Wise Guide, who can protect your conditions from some of that mass removal I was talking about. You might also consider Smeagol, but if you have sufficient Gandalf support, he can do site manipulation (and counter site manipulation) all by himself, so Smeagol isn't necessary.
I think it's possible to have a truly awesome Expanded Knight deck, but I admit I haven't really seen one yet. Those who play them in Leagues tend to pair it with a really strong Shadow and rely on a Shadow kill. I'd certainly NOT recommend ignoring Expanded as a format, since it is the most balanced of all the formats, and also has more variety than any other format.
Gandalf is definitely highly recommended, if not almost required (depending on your Fellowship) in Expanded. Some decks, like Knights, probably shouldn't do without him. Even in the films, they needed Gandalf's support at Minas Tirith ;)
Like sgtdraino said, I'm becoming more and more convinced that Wise Guide may be even better than Powerful Guide. (everything is situational and dependent on match up a little of course though).
Having the ability to cancel any event your opponent plays is huge in Expanded, especially when you know what deck you are up against and you are just waiting for that one event that you know you need to cancel. Wise Guide can provide incredible protection from a variety of strategies...that and he's Gandalf! So you can load him up with his toys and toolbox him out with other useful spells like Roll of Thunder or Grown Suddenly Tall :)
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Thank you guys so much! Ive decided to add 2 Wise Guide 's and also a Pallando and a GoTM!! was thinking about roll of thunder but im trying to find a spot for it to fit and i truly dont know if i want it.
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The new deck
Free Peoples Draw Deck:
2x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Alcarin, Warrior of Lamedon
1x Aragorn, Captain of Gondor
1x Boromir, Hero of Osgiliath
1x Garrison of Gondor
1x Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth
1x Ingold
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
2x Banner of Westernesse
4x Gondor Bow
4x Sapling of the White Tree
1x Scroll of Isildur
1x Might of Numenor
1x Citadel of the Stars
4x Fifth Level
4x Fourth Level
3x Sixth Level
1x Stone Tower
2x Strong and Old
1x Pallando, Far-travelling One
Shadow Draw Deck:
1x Grima, Wormtongue
4x Following Uruk
3x Mauhur, Relentless Hunter
2x Sentry Uruk
1x Shagrat, Tower Captain
4x Ugluk, Ugly Fellow
4x White Hand Guard
4x White Hand Scout
2x White Hand Taskmaster
1x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
1x Broken in Defeat
4x Violent Hurl
2x You Do Not Know Fear
2x Tracking the Prize
2x With All Possible Speed
1x Saruman, Servant of Sauron
its 38 side, kind big but having trouble cutting cards, also didn't know if i wanted 2 banners and a might or 3 banners and no might for healing.
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was thinking about roll of thunder but im trying to find a spot for it to fit and i truly dont know if i want it.
Instead of Roll of Thunder, I would stock Throne of Minas Tirith and Garrison of Osgiliath. That can make for some really powerful possession hate, as well as pump up your guys and get more resistance from Scroll of Isildur.
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So many cards not enought room why do the gods hate me. Thank you tho draino :* Thank you all!
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So many cards not enought room why do the gods hate me. Thank you tho draino :* Thank you all!
If you find yourself wanting to include more cards, there's a couple of things you can do to make that viable:
1. Improve cycling.
Add cards that help you draw or discard faster, so you can get through your giant deck and get what you need. For example, Smeagol, Poor Creature.
2. Use "search" cards.
Use cards that enable you to pull what you need directly out of your giant draw deck. For example, Saved From the Fire, Denethor, Lord of Minas Tirith, or Deagol, Fateful Finder.
If the Free People's side isn't one that does either of those things well, then try pairing it with a Shadow that does do those things well.
My Expanded deck has 108 cards, and rolls great! I have a Movie deck that has 120 cards, and rolls great too!
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Thank you sir for all the tips