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Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 12:59:21 AM

Title: Condition Discard
Post by: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 12:59:21 AM

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There are several powerful condition removal cards:

- expanded: Sleep caradhras, Saruman's Power

- standard: Lothlorien Guides (17U9)

So my question is especially concerning

- Scouring of the Shire 18R
- Deceit 18R

If Sleep caradhras or Saruman's Power is played, is Sots and deceit also discarded or do they get the chance to prevent that somehow?
If Lothlorien Guides is played and I may choose to discard two shadow conditions... I choose both deceit - has the shadowplayer got the chance to prevent that with deceit somehow?

Many thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Olorin

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Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Thranduil on January 30, 2009, 01:02:51 AM

We had a debate about this recently.

Someone plays Sleep, Caradhras and you have Deceit. All conditions are about to be discarded, but you can remove [1] to save each one. At the end of the encounter, all those conditions which you saved will stick around and conditions which you didn't will be lost.

Same thing with Scouring of the Shire. If you play Saruman's Power, the Free Peoples player gets a chance to save 4 of their conditions and lose the rest.

Thranduil

Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 01:10:28 AM

thanks Thranduil!

hm... and with Lothlorien guides? May I also prevent them from discarding as far as I got the 2 twilight pool left?
PS: the Pool of [2] from Lothlorien guides may not be used, right? the same with sleep caradhras, etc. right?

Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Thranduil on January 30, 2009, 01:13:15 AM

Quote from: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 01:10:28 AM

thanks Thranduil!

hm... and with Lothlorien guides? May I also prevent them from discarding as far as I got the 2 twilight pool left?
PS: the Pool of [2] from Lothlorien guides may not be used, right? the same with sleep caradhras, etc. right?

You can prevent them from being discarded by removing [2] (though obviously the Free Peoples player would choose Deceit as one of those conditions because it can't protect itself). But now you've opened the kettle on a whole new set of fish whether you can use the twilight used to play the card... I'm not quite sure what we decided in the other thread, so I'm going to step aside and let someone else put their foot in it! :P

Thranduil

Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 01:17:33 AM

...if I got two deceit... and the opponent chooses with lothlorien guides both deceit... they can't protect each other? so I would need a third deceit to protect the other two?

Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Thranduil on January 30, 2009, 01:18:32 AM

Quote from: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 01:17:33 AM

...if I got two deceit... and the opponent chooses with lothlorien guides both deceit... they can't protect each other? so I would need a third deceit to protect the other two?

No, if you have 2 they can protect each other. The wording "other condition" means "any other condition apart from this one".

Thranduil

Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Elessar's Socks on January 30, 2009, 01:30:43 AM

Quote from: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 01:10:28 AM

PS: the Pool of [2] from Lothlorien guides may not be used, right? the same with sleep caradhras, etc. right?

Sure, you can use the twilight added by their costs. Pay costs. Then perform effects.

If it's like Deep in Thought, spotting is a requirement, not a cost. You must spot Gandalf and 4 twilight tokens before even paying the costs. That's why DiT can't spot its own twilight cost--that would be performing things in the wrong order.

Title: Re: Condition Discard
Post by: Olorin on January 30, 2009, 01:32:11 AM

Great!!!

 :gp: for Thranduil and Elessar's Socks!