The Last Homely House

Middle-Earth => Bag End => Topic started by: Jerba on February 27, 2009, 09:09:48 AM

Title: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Jerba on February 27, 2009, 09:09:48 AM
Quick Poll:  Will you please answer these questions:

I'd do it as an actual poll, but I could only figure out how to ask 1 question.

1. How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.
b. It would be nice to have new stuff, but not necessary.
c. The game is perfect now. LOTR is dead get over it.
d. Other:

2. What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
a. Bans
b. Restrictions
c. Errata
d. Nothing
e. A mix (please specify)

3. How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
a. Necessary, without a matching template I won't use them.
b. Important but I can deal with it.
c. Not important, I just want new cards to play with!

4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
a. Complain but still use the PC's rulings and products.
b. Adapt and play anyway.
c. Quit supporting the PC and keep playing without the PC.
d. Quit playing LOTR.

5. What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?
Open to your answers.


Thanks guys!
Edit: This is not an official poll by any PC organization.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: MR. Lurtzy on February 27, 2009, 10:21:18 AM
1
B

2
C

3
A

4
C
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: GarrisonofGondor on February 27, 2009, 10:29:53 AM
 1.B
 2.D
 3.C
 4.C
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Malachi on February 27, 2009, 11:04:14 AM
1. B
2. E (nothing is to be done with existing cards, new cards have to be made)
3. A
4. C
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: MR. Lurtzy on February 27, 2009, 01:37:24 PM
GoG, you would stop playing LOTR if you don't like a decision??
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: GarrisonofGondor on February 27, 2009, 08:06:30 PM
 Read it wrong, changed my decision.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Elrohir on February 27, 2009, 11:09:09 PM
Question 1
a) I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.

Question 2
c. Errata

Question 3
a. Necessary, without a matching template I won't use them.

Question 4
c. Quit supporting the PC and keep playing without the PC.

Question 5
The PC should be a kind of leading role in organizing tournaments and rule questions. It should keep the fellowship together all over the world and make the community stronger. Important is subtleness to not ruin the game more than it already is.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Mc Tono on February 28, 2009, 12:25:30 AM
1a
2e (ban certain combo`s not cards. use errata`s wisely. use restictions. make new cards)
3a
4a (I would only complain in a poll before the rule is made, not after)(I`dd still invent other format/rules and play them beside the original game against G-E or so)(wouldn`t support if it `s not thee official PC)
5 new cards somehow...
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Olorin on February 28, 2009, 02:31:56 AM
1.) a - BUT: it is really very important to get the right people for it!
2.) e - a mix of course! some cards just need a restriction... some cards are so overpowered that no errata would help, so ban it - some cards are useless... etc.
3.) a
4.) c
5.)
- fix decipher mistakes
- spending thoughts on new cards
- invent some mechanics to get life into this game; events, tournaments, promotion...

But again - for a PC it needs really competent people - and, without wanting to offending anyone, such people are rare
they need to be able to keep an objective eye on cards and play mechanism as well as they need to be enduring and have the power and motivation to get some life into this great game, ruined by big D.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Elessar's Socks on February 28, 2009, 02:44:18 AM
1. b

We could release virtual cards for online games and create unofficial rulings for any remaining questions, but only an official PC can give them authority. Case in point, the continuing deadlock over what cards should be fixed.

However, it's also possible the PC can make some truly damaging decisions. If the creation of new virtual cards is unfeasible (not remakes--they'd overlay an old card base completely), then wouldn't it be like using up old cards as currency? I'd be nervous about important cards in my deck being changed around for the sake of creating something new.

Basically I'm feeling a mix of "don't knock it until you try it," and "this can really come back to bite us in the rear." But why not move forward and see what happens.

2. e

The full set of bans, restrictions, and erratas gives the PC more tools to work with. Frenzy of Arrows is tantalizingly close to a quick fix (no, not the other quick fix). I'm still rooting for Madril, DoO to be kicked from Expanded.

3. b

By all means get a perfect template! But if a substitute has to be used, just make sure it retains clarity. Incidentally, new cards might get tripped up over the lack of pictures, even if they have the official template--it'd be very difficult to tell the game state at a glance.

4. a/b

Would some of the cards on the current X-lists have gotten there if players didn't continue to protest?

There could always be a legacy format that doesn't use virtual cards at all, although it might keep erratas and the banned list. But seriously, there's no way to split it 10 ways and make them all official.

5.

Make it a point to listen. Don't treat the community as an annoyance. And for heaven's sake, don't end arguments with an "I'm a better player so be quiet" move. Whoever ends up at the top, be nice to the little guys!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: King89 on February 28, 2009, 03:12:48 AM
1.a

2.e - a mix of "a" and "b", but please not even more erratas  [-o<

3.a

4.c

5. here i have to agree with elrohir:
The PC should be a kind of leading role in organizing tournamnets and rule questions. It should keep the fellowship together all over the world and make the community stronger. Important is subtleness to not ruin the game more than it already is.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Gil-Estel on February 28, 2009, 03:33:00 AM
1:b
2:e, not mix up cards too much, maybe just restrict them in a certain environment
3:a/b..sure, the best thing is the same template, by far, but who knows....
4:b, for the simple reason that it can't be any worse than it is. So I think if there is going to be a PC, they will be dedicated, and willing to listen to the players. Other than that, in non-official play, I can do what ever I want ;)
5:dito on Elrohir. Probably being able to make new cards, new formats, something to work with....
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: thewitchhunter on February 28, 2009, 08:18:19 AM
1. b. It would be nice to have new stuff, but not necessary.

2. b. Restrictions (as few bans as possible)

3. a. Necessary, without a matching template I won't use them.

4. a. Complain but still use the PC's rulings and products. (and eventually play with some house rules)

5. full ack to Elrohir :-)
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on March 01, 2009, 06:56:22 AM
1. How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.

2. What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
e. A mix (restrictions & errata)

3. How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
b. Important but I can deal with it.

4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
a. Complain but still use the PC's rulings and products.

5. What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?
Same anwser as Elrohi, but I would like to see action towards Decipher, Weta and other licenceholders to see what's possible to create new cards: Virtual or/and not virtual!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: lem0nhead on March 02, 2009, 06:49:34 AM

1. How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.


2. What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
a. Bans

3. How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
a. Necessary, without a matching template I won't use them.

4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
a. Complain but still use the PC's rulings and products.

5. What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?

Common sense. The ability to judge a cards 'brokeness' in all situations not just a couple of biased uses. Not much else really, would be nice just to have something that ressurected a bit of a fire in the ashes of LOTR TCG.

Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Disco Stu on March 02, 2009, 10:47:40 AM
1 How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.

2 What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
e Errata and/or bans

3 How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
a. Necessary, without a matching template I won't use them.
(the original template is too perfect to ignore)

4 If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
b Adapt and play anyway.
(maybe i would try to become a member of the pc)

5 What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?
first it has to fix the problems big D has left for us (i.e. deal with overpowered cards or strange rules). if that is finished, it can work on new cards (or making old cards (sites) playable in a new environment (shadows block)) and new mechanisms. beside that it can try to consolidate regular organized game play.

Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Jerba on May 26, 2009, 02:40:03 PM
Total Bump. Talk it out folks. Lets move on the idea of a players committee! I'm in favor of a TLHH Players Committee, are you? No one else will help us but us.

Can we keep our game fresh, new, and fun? Can we bring back old players? Can we fix existing problems?  Absoluetly we can.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: legolas3333 on May 26, 2009, 11:57:27 PM
1.A
2.B
3.C
4.B
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on May 27, 2009, 01:40:00 AM
Quick Poll:  

1. How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.


2. What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
e. A mix (please specify)
I'm not fond of banning cards. First you should have good arguments to do so. And 2nd you've to see if nothing else first fails to something such drastic.

3. How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
c. Not important, I just want new cards to play with!

4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
E. It depends how they are argumented. If a pc decides we gonna x everything we don't like, without first seeing if there are alternatives and try these alternatives then I think the pc is not doing a good job. It just depends how the pc functions.

5. What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?
Guidelines. One central point. A vision about keeping this game alive. making sure there are tournaments regulary, which I think is important and crucial for survival.

Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Aragorn_Ellessar on May 27, 2009, 07:32:40 AM
B
E
A
C
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Thranduil on May 28, 2009, 02:52:40 AM
1. How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.

2. What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
e. A mix (bans, restrictions or errata, wherever appropriate)

3. How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
c. Not important, I just want new cards to play with!

4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
b. Adapt and play anyway. If I don't like a ruling, I just won't play with it!

5. What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?
It just needs to bring life to the game by rekindling people's interest. This can be done with new rulings, fixing overpowered cards and most importantly having new cards to play with.

Thranduil
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on May 28, 2009, 05:16:09 AM
4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
b. Adapt and play anyway. If I don't like a ruling, I just won't play with it!
[/quote]

That's also a way :)
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Legosmurf on May 28, 2009, 07:59:32 AM
1. How important is it to you that a Player's Committee (PC) is formed to deal with rules questions, overpowered cards, and create new cards?
a. I REALLY want a PC to add life to the game and fix Deciphers mistakes.

2. What strategy do you prefer the PC use to deal with "overpowered" cards?
e. A mix (Erratas and restrictions)

3. How important to you is it that the templates used on virtual cards is an exact match to current cards?
b. Important but I can deal with it (I can alway make my own to exactly match the template; I already made templates for some of the cards!).

4. If a PC is formed and makes a decision you don't like how will you react?
a. Complain but still use the PC's rulings and products. (My players group might decide not to use certain PC erratas but on the whole I would try to follow the PC).

5. What are you looking for in a PC? What does it need to give the players in your opinion?
I think it should mostly deal with clarifying the rules and fixing the faux pas of Decipher. It should also make old cards that are no longer playable playable by erratas and or restrictions.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Elessar's Socks on May 30, 2009, 02:08:30 PM
Hm, I might have to revise my thoughts on virtual cards. The way SWCCG does it is that you can still choose which version to run, the original or the new, correct? I'd definitely prefer that to making everything essentially errata.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: HawkeyeSPF on May 30, 2009, 02:55:58 PM
Correct - on my end, I was frustrated because I thought people would assume that you could do just that (use either version). I never thought people would think that the (V) version would be the only legal version.

So yes, the plan (in my head anyway) is to create all new text for current cards that could then be printed out and put into a sleeve with the original card.

If things go well and the PC and its players behave well and play according to the rules any interested parties (Decipher/New Line/Tolkien) lay down, we MIGHT just be able to make cards like Smaug etc.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Jerba on May 30, 2009, 08:02:04 PM
Hm, I might have to revise my thoughts on virtual cards. The way SWCCG does it is that you can still choose which version to run, the original or the new, correct? I'd definitely prefer that to making everything essentially errata.

Yeah, thats an important clarification! I just assumed that people knew that, but shouldn't have. Thanks for pointing that out!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Elessar's Socks on May 31, 2009, 01:38:44 AM
Usually I see something like "Let's change useless cards to make them playable!" and then it's off to the races. :lol:

Assuming we're on our own for the time being, what are we legally allowed to use, graphics/text-wise? Like, could we not turn The Eye of Sauron (V) into Smaug (humor me with the picture), since he's not referenced by any Decipher card?

It looks like Question 3 (templates) is a sticking point for many, and some groups have managed to get away with it, but I think we should do it right. Getting hit with a cease-and-desist would be a quick way of ending things.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: HawkeyeSPF on May 31, 2009, 07:58:58 AM
Usually I see something like "Let's change useless cards to make them playable!" and then it's off to the races. :lol:

Assuming we're on our own for the time being, what are we legally allowed to use, graphics/text-wise? Like, could we not turn The Eye of Sauron (V) into Smaug (humor me with the picture), since he's not referenced by any Decipher card?

It looks like Question 3 (templates) is a sticking point for many, and some groups have managed to get away with it, but I think we should do it right. Getting hit with a cease-and-desist would be a quick way of ending things.

I think you answered your own question with your last paragraph there, ES. If we want to "do it right" - and I agree that we should - really the only thing we can do at this point is create a very generic cover slip with no lore, and only basic shapes to represent Str, Vit, and Res.

Once Decipher knows we've got our sh*t together, we'll be in a position to ask for permission to use templates. Once we've got Decipher on our side, we'll be able to take things to Tolkien and see about using their IP and representative images.

And yes, a C&D would quickly shut things down, and I don't think many people realize that Decipher and Tolkien both have every right to send us one at any point once we've started things.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on May 31, 2009, 08:05:53 AM
Usually I see something like "Let's change useless cards to make them playable!" and then it's off to the races. :lol:

Assuming we're on our own for the time being, what are we legally allowed to use, graphics/text-wise? Like, could we not turn The Eye of Sauron (V) into Smaug (humor me with the picture), since he's not referenced by any Decipher card?

It looks like Question 3 (templates) is a sticking point for many, and some groups have managed to get away with it, but I think we should do it right. Getting hit with a cease-and-desist would be a quick way of ending things.

I think you answered your own question with your last paragraph there, ES. If we want to "do it right" - and I agree that we should - really the only thing we can do at this point is create a very generic cover slip with no lore, and only basic shapes to represent Str, Vit, and Res.

Once Decipher knows we've got our sh*t together, we'll be in a position to ask for permission to use templates. Once we've got Decipher on our side, we'll be able to take things to Tolkien and see about using their IP and representative images.

And yes, a C&D would quickly shut things down, and I don't think many people realize that Decipher and Tolkien both have every right to send us one at any point once we've started things.

Hawk,

Is it also possible to make new cards without picture; So people can print this card with an own (lotr) image/picture? Would that be legal, because:

We don't sell anything
We don't use image's or pictures (we can't help it if other people do, right?)

Regards,

jw
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Gil-Estel on May 31, 2009, 08:09:00 AM
I think not, because we're using their template, their idea, their system. But that is just my input....
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Elessar's Socks on May 31, 2009, 01:45:51 PM
And it'd be bad if they're associated with the PC.

Bring on circles, squares, and triangles--small price to pay IMO for new cards. :up:
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Jerba on June 01, 2009, 07:13:44 AM
I'm sure we can get them really close, and looking good, without breaking the law. It won't be Kindergarten style.  [-o<
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on June 02, 2009, 04:54:04 AM
I think not, because we're using their template, their idea, their system. But that is just my input....

Agreed, but maybe we have to offer them something as well! For instance we could promote fightclub for them. Or we could become one of the sellers for fightclub and instead of getting money we get the right to use their stuff.

Well we'll see in time. First things first and that's getting the pc on the road.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Gil-Estel on June 02, 2009, 05:01:04 AM
And what steps are you planning to take to achieve that? I mean, this poll can't last forever.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: jdizzy001 on June 02, 2009, 05:00:01 PM
NEW CARDS!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: MuadDib85 on June 02, 2009, 05:35:02 PM
1. b. It would be nice to have new stuff, but not necessary.
2. a. Bans
3. b. Important but I can deal with it.
4. depends on decision
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Kralik on June 05, 2009, 08:28:20 PM
Just thought I'd step in as an admin and let you know that our official site policy is no graphical/virtual cards. I'd like to see this take off the ground as much as any of you, but it's on my head if Decipher/Tolkien gets upset...  :ninja:
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on June 06, 2009, 02:34:32 AM
Just thought I'd step in as an admin and let you know that our official site policy is no graphical/virtual cards. I'd like to see this take off the ground as much as any of you, but it's on my head if Decipher/Tolkien gets upset...  :ninja:

That's also why I want you in the pc! Unfortunately you haven't anwsered my pm.
We surely don't want to get things on your head. But as mentioned first we've got to get the pc started and when everything is settled then we gonna need to make a plan towards Decipher, New Line and the heirs of Tolkien.
I'm sure we have to offer them something as well in exchange for some support (allowing us, till some degree, do make v-cards or such). But therefore we need you in the pc!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Legosmurf on June 09, 2009, 05:56:55 AM
Legally speaking, the card name and lore of existing cards needs to remain the same if we change tem. That way we're not making new cards but clarifying existing cards to be used in current gameplay.

Making completely new cards is a lot more complicated because then we're going to use their templates even if we use our own images.

But to start with creating virtual versions of now out of play cards is a good start to revitalize the game. Imho it has the following advantages:
1) Old cards are still available to the players who left after Mount Doom so altering them to the new gameplay might draw them back in.
2) Virtual cards can be done without artwork. Just the new gametekst in a corresponding template of the lower half of the card. Leave lore, name etc in tact to avoid problems with the big D.
3) Can also be used effectively to create erratas for broken cards that are in current play.

I suggest that we do this first and wait with the creating completely new cards. This btw doesn't mean that we can't introduce new game mechanics as long as we use new card texts on existing cards.
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Jerba on June 09, 2009, 06:39:26 AM
Legally speaking, the card name and lore of existing cards needs to remain the same if we change tem. That way we're not making new cards but clarifying existing cards to be used in current gameplay.

Making completely new cards is a lot more complicated because then we're going to use their templates even if we use our own images.

But to start with creating virtual versions of now out of play cards is a good start to revitalize the game. Imho it has the following advantages:
1) Old cards are still available to the players who left after Mount Doom so altering them to the new gameplay might draw them back in.
2) Virtual cards can be done without artwork. Just the new gametekst in a corresponding template of the lower half of the card. Leave lore, name etc in tact to avoid problems with the big D.
3) Can also be used effectively to create erratas for broken cards that are in current play.

I suggest that we do this first and wait with the creating completely new cards. This btw doesn't mean that we can't introduce new game mechanics as long as we use new card texts on existing cards.

This makes sense. I concur. I wouldn't mind changing subtitles but we have to start somewhere!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Smeagollum on June 10, 2009, 03:51:30 AM
Legally speaking, the card name and lore of existing cards needs to remain the same if we change tem. That way we're not making new cards but clarifying existing cards to be used in current gameplay.

Making completely new cards is a lot more complicated because then we're going to use their templates even if we use our own images.

But to start with creating virtual versions of now out of play cards is a good start to revitalize the game. Imho it has the following advantages:
1) Old cards are still available to the players who left after Mount Doom so altering them to the new gameplay might draw them back in.
2) Virtual cards can be done without artwork. Just the new gametekst in a corresponding template of the lower half of the card. Leave lore, name etc in tact to avoid problems with the big D.
3) Can also be used effectively to create erratas for broken cards that are in current play.

I suggest that we do this first and wait with the creating completely new cards. This btw doesn't mean that we can't introduce new game mechanics as long as we use new card texts on existing cards.
Please read my question in the other topic!
Title: Re: POLL: Players Committee. Let your opinion be heard.
Post by: Legosmurf on June 11, 2009, 04:06:46 AM
I answered you question in the other topic in english so nobody feels left out ;-p