The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Bag End => Topic started by: Smeagollum on May 25, 2009, 01:15:18 AM
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Here are my sugestions for solving this:
(2) Namarie [Elven]
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, add an [ELVEN] token here for each hunter you can spot. At the start of the maneuver phase: Discard this or remove a token from here and spot an [ELVEN] hunter to discard a condition.
With making it a start of action you limit this action, which makes it less good.
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an [ORC] and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery total for each follower you can spot.
Solves the [Orc} Archer problem. Makes it also less good, because you need to combine 2 races/cultures.
(5) •Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 7
To play, spot 2 [ELVEN] companions. At the start of the maneuver phase: Add a threat to take an [ELVEN] skirmish event into hand from your discard pile. At the start of the regroup phase: Remove an [ELVEN] token to play an [ELVEN] condition from your discard pile.
Here as well: Limiting the actions solves the problem.
(3) •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
When Galadriel is in your starting fellowship, her twilight cost is -3. At the start of the fellowship or regroup phase: Discard an [ELVEN] event from hand to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.
Here as well: Limiting the actions solves the problem.
(1) • The Shire Countryside [Shire]
Condition
To play, spot 2 [SHIRE] companions. Plays to your support area. Each time you remove a burden (except by a Hobbit's game text), you may heal a companion.
"'Life in the wide world goes on... scarcely even aware of the existence of hobbits....'"
making it unique is solving the mass healing. Also there is no use exerting a companion with Sorry About Everything for removing a burden and then to add a burden with Birthday Present to get Sorry About Everything back into hand to do this again. Besides that there is the ruling of 4.
(3) •Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast [Orc]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 8
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Lurker. (Skirmishes involving lurker minions must be resolved after any others.) Shadow: Exert Troll's Keyward and reveal your hand to add (1) for each [ORC] Troll revealed. This minion can not be discarded by any Shadow Player during the Shadow phase.
Not named by any of you, but this is what I think is realy an infinnite loop: Play TKW exert him twice generate x pool play another 4 minions (to much suprise you'll play Orkish Scout). Then discard those 5 minions to play a mountaintroll. With Mountain troll you play back TKW exert him twice to generate x twillight. Play with Mountain Troll another 4 minions from your discard pilek so you can do the trick again. In the end you will face all the minions which your opponent had in hand and the minions which were in his discardpile. And if it does not kill your fellowship the first time, well then it will happen the 2nd time, because you'll also play Goblin Hordes and you'll make sure that the site which is played is an underground (watchfull Orc). With adding this phrase: "This minion can not be discarded by any Shadow Player during the Shadow phase." You'll limit this action to only one time per shadowphase.
Well hope you can do anything with it. It are just thoughts about how this can be solved without x-listing cards (which I think is stupid and what I think will keep deviding playergroups, because the'll keep using own lists. I know Amsterdam will, because we are against x-listing cards).
Regards,
Jw
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JW the problem of Keyward isn't the ability to play him again...the problem is the possibility to add a warg on him :S....they should have kept wargrider in the cards.....
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Gil: That does count for more orcs, not only for the keyward. But for what I described the combo Keyward and Mountain Troll will be sufficient without wargs (I think combining it would even make it weaker, because you can't put everything in it).
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frenzy of arrows is still wayyyyyyy too good! cause when it was playable, nearly everyone combined it with [Men] archers to get a deathly shadow.
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Okay then:
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
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I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.
Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?
Okay then:
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.
Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?
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I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.
Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?
Okay then:
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.
Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?
hmmm... isn't there a way to make events unique playing them?
Will this balance things more?
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
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(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
This looks better to me. :up:
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(1) • The Shire Countryside [Shire]
Condition
To play, spot 2 [SHIRE] companions. Plays to your support area. Each time you remove a burden (except by a Hobbit's game text), you may heal a companion.
"'Life in the wide world goes on... scarcely even aware of the existence of hobbits....'"
making it unique is solving the mass healing. Also there is no use exerting a companion with Sorry About Everything for removing a burden and then to add a burden with Birthday Present to get Sorry About Everything back into hand to do this again. Besides that there is the ruling of 4.
The trick would be to combine it with A Light in His Mind to manipulate 4 no 3 no 4 no 3 no 4 no 3 no... cards in hand. But it requires setup, and with the Rule of 4 counting on discard, I don't think it needs to be made unique.
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hmmm... isn't there a way to make events unique playing them?
Will this balance things more?
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
I agree with changing the 2's to 1's, but I think we should leave the rest of the text as is. Makes it a powerful card, but not as ridiculous as before. Followers need some hate.
I like the idea of changing both Namarie and Gilgalad to "At the start of the Maneuver phase..."
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I like most of those changes, but Troll's Keyward doesn't seem fixed to me.
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He shouldn't be able to bear a Warg, easy as that.
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My thoughts-
Namarie- If Gil-Galad is allowed, I think it should be changed to, "At the start of the regroup phase...."
Frenzy of Arrows- I think it's easier just to ban it.
Gil-Galad- Smeagollum's version is better. Still would be annoying, but it's better.
Galadriel- This one I would still disagree with. In most cases you don't need to use it more than once a turn anyway. Banning, once again, would be easier.
TSC- I like Smeagollum's version, R-list might be simpler though.
Trolls Keyward- "Exhaust this minion and reveal your hand" maybe?
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exhausting could be done infinite times.
FoA is already unusuable, no reason to ban.
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Here are my sugestions for solving this:
(2) Namarie [Elven]
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, add an [ELVEN] token here for each hunter you can spot. At the start of the maneuver phase: Discard this or remove a token from here and spot an [ELVEN] hunter to discard a condition.
Discarding a condition in the maneuver phase at every site is IMO still too strong. Maybe change it to at the start of the regroup phase. Lothlorien Guides and Seclusion can still be used if maneuver discarding is required.
Earlier the insinuation was made that people who couldn't / didn't want to handle condition discard weren't being creative. Maybe to a point, but I'd argue that effortlessly squashing Shadow attempts to set up something "creative" isn't exactly praiseworthy, either. :P I think this is at least a step in the right direction.
(5) •Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 7
To play, spot 2 [ELVEN] companions. At the start of the maneuver phase: Add a threat to take an [ELVEN] skirmish event into hand from your discard pile. At the start of the regroup phase: Remove an [ELVEN] token to play an [ELVEN] condition from your discard pile.
Nice, simple way of stopping the loop.
(2) Frenzy of Arrows [Orc]
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.
Well... it's no longer broken or useless, but IMO this errata is too arbitrary (and difficult to remember). I'd go for something cleaner, for example:
"Spot an [Orc] minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. Then add an additional 2 to the minion archery total if you can spot a Free Peoples follower."
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"Spot an [Orc] minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. Then add an additional 2 to the minion archery total if you can spot a Free Peoples follower."
This looks good.
:up:
but +4 to the minon archery total would maybe need a twilte cost of [3]?
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:o That is still very overpowered.
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Do you think the card text is overpowered, or the twilite cost?
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The twilight cost can be tweaked to the point where this becomes prohibitive, but I think game text in this case would cleaner to handle. Also if we get to virtual cards/errata, the print-outs will cover only the bottom half of the card, making it preferable that all errata takes place down below. Just my opinion.
:o That is still very overpowered.
That teaches people not to play followers. :fire:
Another fairly easy to track idea would be changing 2s to 1s in the game text, as I think you mentioned already. With that there might not be the need to fiddle with "for each" or the side of the followers.
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You could make the original bonus 2 and the follower bonus 1 or the other way around
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Actualy I don't mind if it has to spot a freep follower or not. Maybe we can alter it a bit in attached follower. This way you still give the sp the option to use his follwer, with the possibility that his minion be killed and that the follower will be gone. It gives the freep the option not to attach a follower. And if he does then it's his own fault.
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This thread has gone completely off topic, but I'm not even sure what to split it in to...
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Just give it another title. Card debate for example....:)
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This thread has gone completely off topic, but I'm not even sure what to split it in to...
Sorry My Fault! :P
If You want you can pick up my suggestions (from there and on) on errata into a new topic: Errata suggestions?
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I think FoA could simply have all 2s (except twilight cost) changed to 1s.
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<---- Agrees with Lurtzy
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As for the Troll keyward. Warg problem could be solved with increasing its strength(and consequently twilight cost).
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That would be overly complicated, perhaps a simple "This minion may not bear mounts" would solve that.
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it's not only this minion with overpowered minions when bearin a mount. Exerting 3x to add 3 wounds is verry killing.
Keyward is strong enough for itself in combo with mountaintrolls,
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What about (for Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast):
"Shadow: Exhaust Troll's Keyward. If you exerted Troll's Keyward, reveal your hand to add [1] for each [Orc] Troll revealed."?
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Exhausting can be done infinite times.
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I handled Troll Swarms always very well with my freeps... :mrgreen: ...and even tripled sometimes... but I know, that 8-12 trolls site per site can be an obvious problem... why not: if you cannot spot a Troll, exert Keyward twice to add [2] for each troll reveald from hand... etc.
but keep in mind... the keyward is not that dangerous if you once fixed A new chapter --> all followers played --> only trolls left... fix that card, probably to rule of 4 (take follower into hand instead of play...) then everything might be fixed.
and probably we can also spend some thoughts on useless cards like drawn to full height or ents marching...
and also, I think that each horn need at least [1] twilight cost (erkenbrand's horn, gamling's horn, Horn of Boromir, etc.) so powerful cards with just no pool... :evil:
and yeah... how about spending some thought on Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation: some people says, he can be made to run, some others say, he can't... I played for a long time with him... and I was not so bad... but I guess this was due to lack of competitive opponents... against a well organized shadow, this ringbearer is without any chance, I think... he is destroying himself easily...
and concerning frenzy of arrows: hmm... why not: spot 2 archers to play... (so you need at least two other archer minions, evil men for instance... or you need to spot two archer comps...) then the card would be fine...
and reduce the twilight cost of fatty bolger to - - then a starting fellowship with gandy pg would be possible - :mrgreen:
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Exhausting can be done infinite times.
Okay, but isn't the rule for infinite combos for no effect that it's done once (or you choose how many times)?
After all, with my suggestion, he can exhaust but only gets the benefit if he exerted - it's less useful to repeat than Sam, Faithful Companion... (meaning, somewhat if you have the right cards, otherwise it's no effect vs. free shuffle)
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What about (for Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast):
"Shadow: Exhaust Troll's Keyward. If you exerted Troll's Keyward, reveal your hand to add [1] for each [Orc] Troll revealed."?
It could be done much easier say
Shadow: Exert Troll's Keyward and reveal your hand to add [1] for each [Orc] Troll revealed (limit once per turn)
and just make the limit once or twice per turn
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Agreed. Remember simple is better! I like your idea on the Keyward Legolas3333; I'd say twice per turn would be perfect since it would capture the original purpose of the card.
Frenzy of Arrows: Spot an [Orc] minion to add [1] to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional [1] to the minion archery total for each follower you can spot.
This fix is very simple and makes this card perfect imo. Not too powerful.. in fact not very powerful at all if the FP is not running followers. If they are then it can hurt; but that is good since followers need some hate!
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So let me get this straight
You think Troll Swarm (handy for killing Elves) is broken...
You think Elves with Namarie and replaying what they need (handy for killing Troll Swarm) is broken...
Troll's Keyward is not broken.
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Troll's Keyward is not broken.
Indeed!
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and probably we can also spend some thoughts on useless cards like drawn to full height or ents marching...
How about these?
(0) Drawn to Full Height [Gandalf]
Event • Skirmish
Spell. Spot a [Gandalf] Wizard
to make a minion lose all strength bonuses.
That minion's strength may not be modified
may any other card until the regroup phase.
"I am not trying to rob you. I'm trying to help you."
[3] Ents Marching [Gandalf]
Event • Maneuver
If the fellowship is in region 1 or region
2, spot 2 Ents to make an Ent defender +2.
If the fellowship is in region 3, exert a [Gandalf]
companion to draw a card for each Ent you can spot.
"The old that is strong does not wither; Deep roots
are not touched by the frost."
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Troll's Keyward is not broken.
Indeed!
I miss in Standard something for Roll of Thunder in [Gandalf] culture... I mean... a strength 5 Erland or strength 4 Jarnsmid or a strength 3 Library-guy won't really benefit if you cancel the strength +2 possession bonus... the gandy-men will still get overwhelmed... same with Ents marching... perhaps include a strength bonus as well...
Okay, this beeing said... what you think of fixing A new chapter to rule of 4?
Right! Troll's Keyward is not broken... he just may get dangerous if your opponent uses A new chapter to get all about 25 followers out of deck and the rest stays is just trolls about trolls... and of course the wargs on Keyward may also be annoying... but without Keyward you hardly can play trolls... there are nowadays such strong fellowships... you need something to conter... otherwise you won't have any chance.
and probably we can also spend some thoughts on useless cards like drawn to full height or ents marching...
How about these?
(0) Drawn to Full Height [Gandalf]
Event • Skirmish
Spell. Spot a [Gandalf] Wizard
to make a minion lose all strength bonuses.
That minion's strength may not be modified
may any other card until the regroup phase.
"I am not trying to rob you. I'm trying to help you."
[3] Ents Marching [Gandalf]
Event • Maneuver
If the fellowship is in region 1 or region
2, spot 2 Ents to make an Ent defender +2.
If the fellowship is in region 3, exert a [Gandalf]
companion to draw a card for each Ent you can spot.
"The old that is strong does not wither; Deep roots
are not touched by the frost."
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I agree that Troll's Keyward by himself is not broken. I propose simply banning twilight when he is in play. :evil:
Some fellowships can survive a Troll drop even at site 2, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with that as the new baseline. Ease off a bit with the escalation, I think. The limit of twice per turn sounds good.
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Troll's Keyward isn't broken, he is lame. As in, you want a non-creative deck, play Troll Swarm. He is not that hard to counter, allthough he is very annoying. For the Horndeck, the only true adjustment that should be made is the Rule of 4. Simple as that.
Rule of 4:
During your fellowship you cannot take or play more than 4 cards from your drawdeck.
And there you have it. No more horndeck, at least not as easy as it was.
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i agree i hate having a 5 minute fellowship phase, i have time to go get a drink, eat some food and come back before they're done. the horn deck was a genius idea but it is quite boring if you get down to it
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Troll's Keyward isn't broken, he is lame. As in, you want a non-creative deck, play Troll Swarm. He is not that hard to counter, allthough he is very annoying. For the Horndeck, the only true adjustment that should be made is the Rule of 4. Simple as that.
Rule of 4:
During your fellowship you cannot take or play more than 4 cards from your drawdeck.
And there you have it. No more horndeck, at least not as easy as it was.
I like this idea.
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though cycling 4 cards a turn is stlil crazy good. See aggression. but the fellowship wouldn't be as strong as an aggression deck though.
could work./
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sure but No Pauses No Spills draws 4 cards, Alliance Reforged, etc etc. Sure, the Horn would still be nasty, but with not all the followers out, the deck wouldn't be as strong as it was, no where near as strong!
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Which is the point. That change to the rule of 4 is a good idea. :up:
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Gil Estel± Well about the problem with Wargs. Maybe we found a solution for this. Last tuesday Mar Hameleers sugested (after again a misabuse of these wargs by somebody of my playergroup) that maybe we should say that warg can only be played by orcs from the last block. Another option would be to add the sentence that bearer can not exert more then twice per phase.
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The rule of 4 change is...not good at all.
Now the deck runs multiple New Chapter and voila, 4 followers a turn, all the wounds come off, and you're still filtering crazy. Its still broken. Not as broken, but still broken.
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but the problem with the Horn deck isn't exactly the fellowship, it is the shadow being prepared at site 2. This way it would be at least more of a challenge.
The wargs in BoHD were all limited to warg-riders. That should be fixable.
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<-- Agrees with GE
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i agree to the exansion of the rule of 4. during your fellowship phase you may not play from your deck, draw or take into hand from your deck more than 4 cards alltogether.
and here is another idea for a rule change:
once the shadow has initiative, the free peoples player cannot regain initiative until the end of the turn regardless of his hand.
(this way memory of darkness can come back)
some thoughts about errata:
frenzy of arrows
cost 2
spot an [orc] orc to make the minion archery total +1 and +1 for each follower you can spot.
gil-galad
limit his abilities to the start of the maneuver or regroup phase respectively
galadriel, lady redeemed
3 3 3
(no cost reduction)
fellowship or regroup: discard 2 [elf] events from hand to discard a shadow condition or a shadow possession.
.namarie (unique)
cost 2
when you play this condition, add an [elf] token for each hunter companion you can spot.
maneuver: spot an [Elf] hunter and either remove 2 tokens from here or discard this condition to discard a shadow condition.
(this way it is more like traveller´s homestead)
galadriel´s silver ewer
cost 2
galadriel is strength +1 and resistance +1
each time you play an [elf] skirmish event, you may reinforce an [elf] token (limit once per skirmish).
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namarie (unique)
cost 2
when you play this condition, add an [elf] token for each hunter companion you can spot.
maneuver: spot an [Elf] hunter and either remove 2 tokens from here or discard this condition to discard a shadow condition.
(this way it is more like traveller´s homestead)
see thats the thing that bothered me most was how other condition discarding cards were not as powerful (travelers homestead, Leaving Forever, Fortress Never Fallen,)
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I find it interesting that no one has mentioned The Faithful Stone yet. It desperately needs some fixing.
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the faithful stone just needs to be unique
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We play him as unique and then it's okay.
But what do you think about the suggestion about fixing the wargs?
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Frenzy of arrows (2)
spot an orc to make the minion archery total +2. And nothing more....
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But that takes away from the original purpose of the card, which was to give punishment to the FP player for playing followers. Just change all the 2's on the original version to 1's and we're good.
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but the problem with the Horn deck isn't exactly the fellowship, it is the shadow being prepared at site 2. This way it would be at least more of a challenge.
The wargs in BoHD were all limited to warg-riders. That should be fixable.
agree on both
I think GE, that we should already change this (the rule of 4 that is) for our home-rulings.
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well had another thougt about the wargs. Actually the biggest problem is their vitality. They allready have a great text: One of them make sure you can play wargs from your drawdeck another one gives plus 3 str + fierce and relentless is even awesome without vitality. Maybe we should ignore the vitalitybonus or we should limit it to 1.
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well had another thougt about the wargs. Actually the biggest problem is their vitality. They allready have a great text: One of them make sure you can play wargs from your drawdeck another one gives plus 3 str + fierce and relentless is even awesome without vitality. Maybe we should ignore the vitalitybonus or we should limit it to 1.
Is this referring to the Keeper? I think putting a limit on his ability would be a lot cleaner than giving errata to every NOLINKWarg, as well as handicapping future card design.
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Is this referring to the Keeper? I think putting a limit on his ability would be a lot cleaner than giving errata to every NOLINKWarg, as well as handicapping future card design.
Maybe something like: This minion cannot bear possessions. or maybe: This minon cannot bear a mount. ?
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You could apply the rule of 4 to every phase. That would eliminate a lot of "overpowered" combos.
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referring to frenzy of arrows...
But that takes away from the original purpose of the card, which was to give punishment to the FP player for playing followers. Just change all the 2's on the original version to 1's and we're good.
Honestly, there aren't many cards that effect followers. I know that there are some killer combos you can do that will destroy a fellowship using followers, but frankly, I believe that is the risk that we take when we build a deck. Think of a way to counter it. Gandalf Wise guide is an awesome counter to nearly every event.
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I agree with pretty much everything you said jdizzy, but I'm not sure how is related to my comment about Frenzy of Arrows. Can you expound?
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Yeah, I was reading some of the purposed erratas for frenzy of arrows. The point I was trying to make is that despite the fact that frenzy is out of control, we should, as gamers, just think of a way around it. We don't need to modify every card we don't like, I'm going to purpose something wacky here, but what the heck, why don't we just leave frenzy as it is? If the idea really bothers someone then don't play followers. There are over 3,000 cards in LOTR TCG and I've seen some awe-inspiring decks posted on the boards, we should just learn to be more resourceful. We should take another step outside the box and deal with frenzy of arrows like men. Thanks for reading, i appreciate it
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But besides the follower stuff, 2 regular archery for [2] is OP.
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Is this referring to the Keeper? I think putting a limit on his ability would be a lot cleaner than giving errata to every NOLINKWarg, as well as handicapping future card design.
Maybe something like: This minion cannot bear possessions. or maybe: This minon cannot bear a mount. ?
That could work, though to explain further why I'd still prefer a hard-coded limit:
- It's easier to maintain. There really shouldn't be a relationship between an exertion limit and a mount. It just happens that so far all the mounts add to vitality. By limiting the exertions directly, we won't have to worry about cards now and in the future (e.g. a vitality-adding artifact) causing a loophole.
- It causes (or should cause) as little collateral damage as possible. If we wanted to, we could still play a NOLINKWarg on the Keyward, either to beef it up or (the old standby) for cycling purposes.
If the idea really bothers someone then don't play followers.
Well, the Shadow has Saruman, Servant of Sauron already. That's 4 archery for [2]. Then picture Frenzy of Arrows + Isengard Underling + Goblin Hordes and the archery is off the charts!
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Well, the Shadow has Saruman, Servant of Sauron already. That's 4 archery for [2]. Then picture Frenzy of Arrows + Isengard Underling + Goblin Hordes and the archery is off the charts!
which you know is a lot when compared to cards like elevated fire ( +3, [7] ) and Rapid Fire ( +5 [6] )
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Gondor Bowmen and Double Shot were free back in the day. :)
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but there +2 and +1 respectively while frenzy of arrows in the right deck is at least +4 and probably more than that.
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You're very right, plus it is easier for the shadow player to deal with archery as shadow has access to more vitality throughout the course of the game with revolving minions each turn, etc. The fellowship has to carry those wounds around a lot longer and has fewer opportunities to heal/remove them.
Generally, 6 fellowship archery does far less damage to the shadow strategy than 6 shadow archery would do to the fellowship. Losing a companion is not equivalent to losing a minion by any means. I'd say 2-3 fellowship archery is equivalent to 1 shadow archery an many instances.
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You all bring up very valid points, but I think we should just find a way around it. The shadow archery, via frenzy of arrows, is crazy, but that is just the nature of the game. Balrog Demon of Might is OP too, but we think of ways to defeat him. Heck, Elven armaments would completely skip the archery phase! Stick that card on a unique elf like glorfindel or Gil-Galad or a hunter legolas and you won't even have to worry about frenzy or any archery for that matter. Or, you could also stick in some shields to drop the archery total. There are plenty of ways to counter frenzy, it is just another avenue of the great LOTR TCG that must learned to be dealt with. The only truely OP that exists, in my opinion, is choking ](*,) and steadfast champion :suspect:.
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You think choking is overpowered, and not FoA? :roll: Please explain.
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No problem. You can't prevent choking, at least not to my knowledge. You can block archery, and as I've shown (per elven armaments), you can skip the archery phase entirely thus negating FoA. That being said, though I can't "block" a choke deck, I learn to adapt and find ways to make my deck work regardless.
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EA errata.
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lol to be more specific, Elven Armament's has been errata'd and no longer skips the archery phase:
Game Text: To play, bearer must not be bearing any possessions. Bearer must be an [ELVEN] companion. Bearer cannot bear any other possessions. While a unique companion bears this possession, the Free Peoples player may not use archery special abilities and the minion archery total is -1.
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Yeah, I know, I just don't like erratas. My crew and I play the cards at face value. It really hurts sometimes, but that is the nature of the game. Anyway, if FoA is errated, replacing the 2's with 1's is a real good idea.
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I'm obviously very late in on this discussion, but I thought I'd add my thoughts here.
FoA is already unusuable, no reason to ban.
I disagree. If a PC wants to make Virtual Cards, then at some point it is conceivable that they'll want to make an [Orc] minion that can possibly get the archer keyword. Once that happens, FoA is now playable and hence broken. You shouldn't limit the PC's creativity in this way: it's not good enough to say "Never make an [Orc] archer".
But anyway, isn't it a bit early for this sort of stuff? Do we have a PC yet, and isn't this the sort of thing that the PC is going to deal with?
Thranduil
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and here is another idea for a rule change:
once the shadow has initiative, the free peoples player cannot regain initiative until the end of the turn regardless of his hand.
Bad idea. Think of something like 2 Gorgoroth Stormer + 2 Gothmog's Warg.
If the idea really bothers someone then don't play followers.
I think part of the idea in proposing errata is to keep the game balanced and encourage a variety of deck styles. "If you don't like FoA, then don't play followers!" and "If you don't like Namarie, then don't play conditions!" are limiting to all of the possible decks that could be made.
You can't prevent choking, at least not to my knowledge.
There are ways to deal with each card that chokes in some way. Also, build your shadow with a variety of minions and strategies, not just high-cost ones.
You could apply the rule of 4 to every phase. That would eliminate a lot of "overpowered" combos.
Naw, some Shadow strategies need to draw more than 4 per phase. :)
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Well, your just full of retorts aren't you ;)
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and here is another idea for a rule change:
once the shadow has initiative, the free peoples player cannot regain initiative until the end of the turn regardless of his hand.
Bad idea. Think of something like 2 Gorgoroth Stormer + 2 Gothmog's Warg.
Thinking about that makes me think of another errata, one that actualy allows 2 gothmog wargs to be played in one shadow fase :lol:
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I think part of the idea in proposing errata is to keep the game balanced and encourage a variety of deck styles. "If you don't like FoA, then don't play followers!" and "If you don't like Namarie, then don't play conditions!" are limiting to all of the possible decks that could be made.
I agree, but evidently it's already been done. "If you don't like Anduin Confluence in expanded, don't play allies!" Followers in the later sets were really powerful and needed something to damage them, but it shouldn't have been an event. A site should have been made with a similar effect.
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That is a real good point. A site would have been a great way to beat up on followers. They did make a couple cards though albeit they weren't sites. cards like all life flees. That's a good follower killer. I must admit, I like the concept behind followers.
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Thinking about that makes me think of another errata, one that actualy allows 2 gothmog wargs to be played in one shadow fase :lol:
/me bonks himself.
Ah, good point!
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I think that if you must errata, having Frenzy of Arrows at 1 would be good.
I also think that we should make followers characters, that way, stuff like Crooked Townsman can help hold the Horn deck in check. Ya know, not as much, but every little bit helps. If you have some sorta Evil Man toolkit with the discard to play from discard pile minions, you can toss in a Crooked Townsman or 2 and make the freeps fight him every site.
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However, if all of a sudden players can spot followers as characters, there will be a whole bunch of new issues that will need resolved.
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I said this in another topic but I think the only thing that needs to happen is errata New Chapter to "Each time you play a follower heal a [Shire] companion" instead of any companion
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The Faithful Stone was errata'd to unique? (Yes, I am not up to date :()
Man, erratas are great for gameplay, but a pain to follow.Yeah, I know, I just don't like erratas. My crew and I play the cards at face value. It really hurts sometimes, but that is the nature of the game. Anyway, if FoA is errated, replacing the 2's with 1's is a real good idea.
I get you 110%
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I believe the TFS errata was the addition to the end of the text, "Any Shadow player may remove (2) to prevent this."
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Is it still "spot a man" or did it errata to [Gondor] specific?
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It's still "spot a man".
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Wait I thought tfs was spot a [Gondor] man?
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Nope, look it up in the database, it shows the exact errata.
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Oh, that's cool. That makes this card super versatile
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For me creating such erratas are stupid. Formats like Austria are funny and good to play because you dont errata all the stuff , just limit the card pool (and Austria treated both part of the deck separately). Discussion like this will divide players - we play in Poland often in Austria format but if modification like those proposed with Namarie are accepted I will stop play LOTR . The last CRD by Decipher should be considered as last valid errata and x/r list. After all, they created and playtested the game so they should have right to decide.
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After all, they created and playtested the game so they should have right to decide.
They created the game; however, the game went through limited playtesting and cards were built based on theory and not via testing.
-wtk