The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Bag End => Topic started by: SomeRandomDude on May 30, 2009, 08:13:11 AM
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Whereas all cards are designed to be played with,
Whereas the current system of banning cards because of their combos detracts from the original purpose of designing the card,
Whereas errata to "fix" cards is entirely unnecessary, unwieldy, and intimidating for newcomers to the game,
Whereas the simplest solution is always the best,
Resolved: That TLHH shall establish a banned combo list, insomuch as both cards cannot be played in the same deck.
Okay guys, so the purpose of the banned combo list is to shut down all these infinite loops and broken combos, while allowing those cards to be played.
The banned combos list would be something like, Strange Looking Men cannot be played in the same deck as Pavise, Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast can't be played in the same deck as the warg, Demoralized can't be played in the same deck as Rapid Reload or Rallying Orc.
You all with me? Sweet!
So there's the idea, let's talk about the combos. Obviously there's still some cards that are too powerful and combo too easily with other cards, such as The Shire Countryside, but I think that the following guidelines should determine the list that the card goes on.
1: Creating OP Combos: Combo Ban (ie: Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast and his warg).
2: Extremely Powerful Card: Restricted List (ie: Ulaire Nertea, Messenger of Dol Guldur)
3: Cards That Combo With A Sizeable Number Of Other Cards: X-list (ie: The Shire Countryside)
The problem with number 2, of course, is recursion, so a line needs to be drawn on how powerful a restricted card is as opposed to a powerful card that needs banning. For example, Orkish Smith could probably stay on the X-list because of its big recursion issue.
Anyone like the idea?
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I totally do! I have always wanted to make a deck that used steadfast champion, but because of treebeard, kotw, I couldn't. This would be a great fix!
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Absolutely horrible idea.
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Absolutely horrible idea.
Why? Sounded pretty reasonable to me.
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i like it for the same reason as Sweet
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I think this will be extremely difficult. So, I'm not sure if this a good idea. For instance I think it would be a better trick to say on pavise that minions bearing pavise can't exert in the manouverphase. That would be more easy then to have and maintain a x-list for specific combo's.
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Whereas errata to "fix" cards is entirely unnecessary, unwieldy, and intimidating for newcomers to the game,
Whereas the simplest solution is always the best,
Resolved: That TLHH shall establish a banned combo list, insomuch as both cards cannot be played in the same deck.
i don't think it is easy for newcomers to have to have a list of cards that can't go in the same deck. how is that simple? it would make deckbuilding a beast if you are new to the game. sure, if you've been around for a while and know how the cards work brokenness together it would be simple enough, but having an X-list, R-list, Errata list, and X-combo list, just adds more complications.
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I'm a bit curious, why is the combo strange looking men and pavise so deadly? is there some loop you can make with it?
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I think this will be extremely difficult. So, I'm not sure if this a good idea. For instance I think it would be a better trick to say on pavise that minions bearing pavise can't exert in the manouverphase. That would be more easy then to have and maintain a x-list for specific combo's.
Lists are more wieldy than errata, additional rules, etc. All the complicated rules can shut down ways the card are supposed to work and a handbook of rules, and rules on how cards can be worked, and lists on cards that work differently from how they're printed...
Its a mess. A simple list is the easiest way to go.
Absolutely horrible idea.
....thanks for your opinion?
Anyone have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to say?
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I'm a bit curious, why is the combo strange looking men and pavise so deadly? is there some loop you can make with it?
It involves a combo with RoS Evil Men and stacking on possessions and being able to keep playing, discarding and replaying all the stuff you need. But it is incredibly laborious and your opponent will likely leave the table while you spend 30 minutes working the loop.
So 2 reasons to ban it!
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Absolutely horrible idea.
Thank you for telling us why, instead of just making a fool of yourself. dodged a bullet there!
also, I like the idea,
whatshisface ;) is right, steadfast champion treebeard KOTW is another combo to ban.
Gil-Galad Namarie of course ( though I think Namarie is still too good. possibly restrict it as well?
And Gil-Galad leaving forever
and Faithful stone period ;)
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Errata them.
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Anyone have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to say?
what about what i said? i really don't think it is helpful to new players to have cards that can't be in the same deck with another card or cards... it just adds more confusion.
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Errata them.
we have stated multiple times that erratra is confusing...though of course, this is confusing too. I think this is the lesser of two weasels though ;)
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I believe the goal should be to make cards work, not banning combos, which was not what LOTR was intended to have.
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The SWCCG PC has a long-standing policy of never outright banning cards or combo's. Decipher did as well until LotR. I think that the PC should endeavor to avoid bannings or X-listings as much as possible.
Shouldn't the goal here be to have every card be playable in standard format?
I'm not suggesting that we issue mass erratas, but I do think that it should be on the table as one of the possible options.
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Errata them.
we have stated multiple times that erratra is confusing...though of course, this is confusing too. I think this is the lesser of two weasels though ;)
well, we already have a whole list of errata from before, perhaps adding to that list wouldn't be as confusing as adding a new list, on top of it all.
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perhaps you are right...
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And if the list of errata's was easy to come by, like an own page, where no-one could reply on, than it would be clear I guess.
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yeah, having to go through a whole deck you make to make sure no card is illegal with the other cards can get cumbersome for anyone. i agree with gil's idea. make the erratas clear by listing them all.