The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Lothlórien => Topic started by: Kralik on June 19, 2009, 12:02:35 PM
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At least, that's what people have been telling me. But having never really played it, what sort of brokenness are we talking about here? How does the introduction of FotR/TTT cards to Standard break it? I'm curious for some examples. :-k
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I have to say that most post shadow cards are better than the pre-shadow ones... like the hunter aragorn or the new balrog are really better than the others. We all know there are some broken combos or loops (Namarie and Gil-galad) but they just exist because decipher don,t give a **** about LOTR anymore and they can't ban cards or do more erratas.
Personally, I don't really think that the use of FOTR or TT cards make expended that much broken compared to standard.
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Terrible as the dawn, Sleep Caradhras, Elf-Song (Elves are not meant to remove burdens anymore) and Goblin Runner are just a few strong cards, that can cause a nasty combo with newer cards.
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Terrible as the dawn, Sleep Caradhras, Elf-Song (Elves are not meant to remove burdens anymore) and Goblin Runner are just a few strong cards, that can cause a nasty combo with newer cards.
Could you give any examples on how those cards would be more powerful in Expanded than they are currently as played in Movie? (though I rarely if ever see Elf-Song, and I don't see how it is even remotely more powerful than Watch and Wait)
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Elf-Song: This is for elves that, what discarding conditions for hobbits is. (I hope, this is the correct word order :-k ).
Terrible as the dawn (and similar cards): Galadriel is a frequently used ring-bearer. There is a difference between killing an ally and killing/wounding/discarding Bilbo, Gandalf, Galadriel and Boromir as Ring-bearer.
Goblin Runner: Without spotting an underground site, or an other [Moria] you could really missuse this minion in every culture. Think at Rapid reloaded, or Balrog, Sauron etc...
But that is just me ;D
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Expanded allows broken Madril/Ithilien Blade.
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as well as having an 8 companion starting fellowship with faramir, CoG. My personal favorite is the tentacle swarm with all 16 tentacle :D there is also the auto-corrupt nazgaul deck involving lingering shadow, Gates of the dead city, and dark fell about him. These are the most broken that I've come across.
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THe auto-corrupt deck is lovely. :twisted:
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THe auto-corrupt deck is lovely. :twisted:
i just wish there was a deceit for nazgul cards... so you can be sure to keep those gates of the dead city in play. oh well, you can't have a completely unbeatable deck in expanded...
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IMO Ithilien Blade decks are grossly overpowered (if not broken :P) in Expanded, thanks to Madril, DoO and What Are They? Grab Thorongil with The Prancing Pony and generate as many threats as needed to make minions roaming. Then proceed to use Ithilien Blade and WAT to discard minions. With Radagast and Last Throw you could win in 2-3 turns, which gives your opponent very little time to come up with a defense, especially with hand clog.
But by and large, I'd need more convincing that Expanded is home to t3h brokenness when Standard isn't. ;)
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I think that the possibility to have 9 companion starting fellowships (RoS Merry and Pippin with TTT Ents, Faramir, Captain of Gondor with Rangers) is broken enough.
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I don't think a 9-companion starting fellowship is broken. Like one that reaches that size later, it can be punished by Enquea, Anduin Banks, and of course a Shadow that has plenty of twilight to work with. Cycles better than when facing a choke deck, too. I'd probably be happier dealing with mass Ents at the starting line than rainbow wounding or Elven hunters, both of which can reach 9 companions soon enough.
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A nine-companion starting fellowship (ring-bearer included) supports a high-percentage shadow deck.
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I have quite a lot of expanded decks and in general I find power level is a little bit lower, apart from when you can use the more powerful newer cards that are X-ed in standard like Madril and Demoralized. All in all, there are some silly things you can do, but it doesn't feel broken to me - not in my experience.
Thranduil
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For those who like Standard but not Expanded... why not X those particular cards? Or, just take the current Standard X-list and merge it into Expanded's. This goes into PC territory, but just a thought. Similar to those of us who play Movie but don't use Lady Redeemed (unspoken agreement it seems).
Also, Anduin Confluence should go. ;) In FotR block it's a site 7, so you have time to use your allies at least.
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Why should Anduin Confluence be banned?
I think if people want to waste an important site choice on this, then they deserve to be able to get rid of allies... BTW besides Leowyn which other allies would be worth playing in standard?
But if you are saying it should be banned in expanded.. I know nothing about this as I don't play expanded, but imo it should definately not be worried about in standard.
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Expanded isn't broken, it is challenging. I like to have access to cards like Greed, Enquea LoM, Saruman's Power. It enables you to counter several powerful fellowships. I'm more of a shadow person myself. It seems that during the past years fellowships became stronger and stronger and that shadows didn't grow at the same rate. But if you want to make it more viable it could use some more thinking cause indeed, Madril DoO is indeed insane.
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Expanded has pretty much the Madril/IB deck and the Demoralized/Rapid Reload deck, that's why most people refer to it as broken.
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If you know it, do something about it. With expanded you have access to the Balrog launch deck with Demon of Might. And a condition based shadow should never be a problem.
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Also, Anduin Confluence should go. ;) In FotR block it's a site 7, so you have time to use your allies at least.
I agree. In fellowship, you could stop it with a Thror's map, etc. In expanded, it could come at any point of the game. MaudDib is right in that it's useless against 95% of the decks you'll have to face, but I like using Tom Bombadil, The Gaffer, Hobbit Party Guest, etc. in my hobbit decks and recently the one other person in my player group has been adding it to several decks.
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Expanded isn't broken, it is challenging. I like to have access to cards like Greed, Enquea LoM, Saruman's Power. It enables you to counter several powerful fellowships. I'm more of a shadow person myself. It seems that during the past years fellowships became stronger and stronger and that shadows didn't grow at the same rate. But if you want to make it more viable it could use some more thinking cause indeed, Madril DoO is indeed insane.
Hi there,
well, I personally don't like expanded due to several reasons - compare it to brokeness, OP, etc.
I agree with Gil-Estel when he says, the shadow site didn't grow at the same rate with the fellowship - a well set up fellowship is far harder to kill by even a well set up shadow than it was back in early times...
well... if you want to use just nearly all the cards therefore I invented Austrian Format - give it a try - everyone I know liked it... it has pracitse experience from several tournaments, etc. For really many people this is the only one format they wish to play - and it is for everyone - even without having all the cards - so it is quite more fair.
--> an example: imagine Mumak commander + pavise + orcse with hate ??? Even the queen wouldn't be amused :P
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And yet, the Expanded boards keep getting new topics and replies every now and then, and the Austrian Format boards have been dead for AGES, except for the card discussions. I DO think Olorin has hit solid gold with the Austrian Format idea, a nice complement to Movie Block, but I say it'd be too far to praise it like THAT. I mean, only his group plays Tournaments by those rules, it's NOT "universal" as Movie Block is. So if it's "better" than Expanded, why is it not more popular? The answer is simple: they overlap, with Extended being "more broken". But not as broken as Open, where you pretty much play Fiend, hose Fiend or get hosed. And why I say this? Players LIKE it "broken". They like to play with the cards they fought hard to get, and they like to see a crazy interaction or loop being slowly set up on the unsuspecting (or powerless) opponent, and then spring it at them. They LIKE it. IF the brokeness is fair. D has stopped caring for the game, so no erratas are being issued to "fix" broken loops and interactions, which kills the Open metagame. Expanded, however, can STILL be played around. It DOES have other decktypes that allow you to counter strategies and to play with ideas, so that even though we get, like, 3-4 dominant decks, the "metagame" will STILL shift, since there is more than ONE dominant deck.