The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Chamber of Mazarbul => Topic started by: DáinIronfoot on August 20, 2009, 06:32:44 PM
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That's right: two ARBs for the price of one. Both are inspired by the text of The Return of the King...but only one actually appears in The End Of All Things.
Since my beacons of Gondor (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php/topic,2764.0.html) have very suddenly stopped drawing the interest of reviewers, maybe this first DC will shake things up. Tends to rile up many reviewers, including myself, but I thought I'd take a stab at it, mainly after stumbling across the included lore. Enjoy! :mrgreen:
[4]•Aragorn, Bearer of Might [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Ringed Resistance: 8
At the end of the assignment phase, if Aragorn is the Ring-bearer and is not assigned to a skirmish, add X burdens, where X is Aragorn's vitality.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may add a burden to wound a minion.
“‘In that hour I looked on Aragorn and thought how great and terrible a Lord he might have become in the strength of his will, had he taken the Ring to himself.’”
Obviously, one reason that we always scream about Aragorn Ring-bearers is that Aragorn normally has crazy stats (8/4/8), any of which is almost unheard of for an ARB (the vitality is matched by a couple, but only Bilbo BotB matches that high resistance). To have a combination of such high strength, vitality, AND resistance for a Ring-bearer should require some serious drawbacks.
There's also the problem of flavor. Aragorn is, several times, tempted by the Ring and other opportunities for power, and he always turns them down. He seems more incorruptible than any other member of the fellowship (besides, perhaps, Sam), and certainly far more than other Men. But with this lore, I couldn't resist. :uh-huh:
So here he is, a companion I swore I'd never even attempt to turn into an ARB. What have I done?! :gah:
Well, hopefully I've made one that might actually work. With those stats (and again, that lore), I figured that I'd take an opposite track to what many other ARBs (and ALL other [Gondor] ARBs) do--attempt to avoid skirmishes--and instead penalize heavily for NOT skirmishing with Aragorn. As long as he is warring with the Ring, defending Gondor and all the Free Peoples of Middle-earth, then he's fine. But when the battles are over for him, the Ring takes hold, and can corrupt very quickly...especially if Aragorn is just resting on his laurels, fat and happy with high vitality. (I thought about just making it a set number of burdens, like 3 or 4, but decided this might be more fun and would discourage use of cards like Anduril a bit). So, you have a tough choice: live dangerously and fight all the time with Aragorn, potentially having him killed off...or live perhaps even more dangerously by NOT throwing him into battle and eating lots of burdens? Minions with keywords like damage and fierce can make things even harder.
Of course, like most good ARBs, Aragorn is very usable as a NON-Ring-bearer as well. His winning-a-skirmish ability is both unusual and very, very helpful in a variety of decks...especially since it can wound minions assigned to the Ring-bearer. You can use this ability even if he himself is the Ring-bearer, of course, but since it adds burdens, it's obviously a little risky.
I'm sure there are all sorts of flaws with this, but hey, I had to try.
This next one should be much more palpable...I hope. :-?
[2]•Sam, Last of the Company [Shire]
Companion • Hobbit
Strength: 3
Vitality: 4
Ringed Resistance: 10
Muster. Ring-bound.
Sam's resistance is -1 for each unbound companion you can spot.
Response: If Frodo is killed while bearing The One Ring, make Sam the Ring-bearer (resistance 5); the second line of his game text does not apply.
“‘But you haven't put yourself forward; you've been put forward.’”
Even though a Sam ARB already exists, I always felt he deserved another version that could ALSO act as Frodo's backup. Granted, he's not all that great in that role since all he really has going for him is muster, but hey, that alone makes him as useful as many other Sams that can take the Ring from your fallen Frodo.
Where Sam really shines, though, is in a role that Sam BoGN was never really made for: small fellowships. BoGN's resistance really depends on tossing in other companions, whereas this Sam is better the less companions you include with him. He's ideal in an Aragorn WTG deck, but also well-suited in making up an unusual alternative Sam/Frodo/Smeagol fellowship (especially considering that the same set that features this Sam has a Frodo that can be played as a NON-Ring-bearer).
Anyway, hopefully these will generate some interest, good or bad. Fire away, folks! I can take it. :marx:
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That's right: two ARBs for the price of one. Both are inspired by the text of The Return of the King...but only one actually appears in The End Of All Things.
Since my beacons of Gondor (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php/topic,2764.0.html) have very suddenly stopped drawing the interest of reviewers, maybe this first DC will shake things up. Tends to rile up many reviewers, including myself, but I thought I'd take a stab at it, mainly after stumbling across the included lore. Enjoy! :mrgreen:
[4]•Aragorn, Bearer of Might [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Ringed Resistance: 8
At the end of the assignment phase, if Aragorn is the Ring-bearer and is not assigned to a skirmish, add X burdens, where X is Aragorn's vitality.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may add a burden to wound a minion.
“‘In that hour I looked on Aragorn and thought how great and terrible a Lord he might have become in the strength of his will, had he taken the Ring to himself.’”
Obviously, one reason that we always scream about Aragorn Ring-bearers is that Aragorn normally has crazy stats (8/4/8), any of which is almost unheard of for an ARB (the vitality is matched by a couple, but only Bilbo BotB matches that high resistance). To have a combination of such high strength, vitality, AND resistance for a Ring-bearer should require some serious drawbacks.
There's also the problem of flavor. Aragorn is, several times, tempted by the Ring and other opportunities for power, and he always turns them down. He seems more incorruptible than any other member of the fellowship (besides, perhaps, Sam), and certainly far more than other Men. But with this lore, I couldn't resist. :uh-huh:
So here he is, a companion I swore I'd never even attempt to turn into an ARB. What have I done?! :gah:
Well, hopefully I've made one that might actually work. With those stats (and again, that lore), I figured that I'd take an opposite track to what many other ARBs (and ALL other [Gondor] ARBs) do--attempt to avoid skirmishes--and instead penalize heavily for NOT skirmishing with Aragorn. As long as he is warring with the Ring, defending Gondor and all the Free Peoples of Middle-earth, then he's fine. But when the battles are over for him, the Ring takes hold, and can corrupt very quickly...especially if Aragorn is just resting on his laurels, fat and happy with high vitality. (I thought about just making it a set number of burdens, like 3 or 4, but decided this might be more fun and would discourage use of cards like Anduril a bit). So, you have a tough choice: live dangerously and fight all the time with Aragorn, potentially having him killed off...or live perhaps even more dangerously by NOT throwing him into battle and eating lots of burdens? Minions with keywords like damage and fierce can make things even harder.
Of course, like most good ARBs, Aragorn is very usable as a NON-Ring-bearer as well. His winning-a-skirmish ability is both unusual and very, very helpful in a variety of decks...especially since it can wound minions assigned to the Ring-bearer. You can use this ability even if he himself is the Ring-bearer, of course, but since it adds burdens, it's obviously a little risky.
I'm sure there are all sorts of flaws with this, but hey, I had to try.
This next one should be much more palpable...I hope. :-?
[2]•Sam, Last of the Company [Shire]
Companion • Hobbit
Strength: 3
Vitality: 4
Ringed Resistance: 12
Muster. Ring-bound.
Sam's resistance is -1 for each other companion you can spot.
Response: If Frodo is killed, make Sam the Ring-bearer (resistance 5); the second line of his game text does not apply.
“‘But you haven't put yourself forward; you've been put forward.’”
Even though a Sam ARB already exists, I always felt he deserved another version that could ALSO act as Frodo's backup. Granted, he's not all that great in that role since all he really has going for him is muster, but hey, that alone makes him as useful as many other Sams that can take the Ring from your fallen Frodo.
Where Sam really shines, though, is in a role that Sam BoGN was never really made for: small fellowships. BoGN's resistance really depends on tossing in other companions, whereas this Sam is better the less companions you include with him. He's ideal in an Aragorn WTG deck, but also well-suited in making up an unusual alternative Sam/Frodo/Smeagol fellowship (especially considering that the same set that features this Sam has a Frodo that can be played as a NON-Ring-bearer).
Anyway, hopefully these will generate some interest, good or bad. Fire away, folks! I can take it. :marx:
I have thoughts on these. But I am not sure what they are yet. Until next time...
-wtk
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Dain, you have quite outdone yourself this time, and I'm very happy to have seen you cross the line...
...from merely a great card designer to a godly one. Seriously. Richard Garfield ain't got crap on you.
That Aragorn is without a doubt one of the most-amazing runs at an ARB that I've ever seen, and that includes the ones Decipher printed. It's, near as I can tell, a perfect card. As you said, you've taken one of the greatest hindrances to Aragorn bearing the Ring and found an appropriate measure to balance it. But there's another gem here that you're missing, another balancing act that actually makes using Aragorn dangerous (which is great, by the way!).
You see, any FP player who runs your Aragorn would shrug off that drawback text and just pile as much crap onto him as possible. They'd make him a tank and then stack as many defender bonuses as possible on him. He'd chew through minions left and right. But NOLINKthe wise Shadow player would know exactly how to thwart such blatant abuse of the Ring's power: simply prevent him from skirmishing. Ulaire Nertea, Dark Horseman comes to mind, but I'm so rusty with the card pool right now that I'm forgetting just about every other form of preventing companions from getting into combat.
I love this one, Dain. But I won't be truly impressed until you make a Bill the Pony ARB.
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I really should be in bed, but since I can't sleep.... :-Z
Thanks, Menace. Coming from the designer of Gandalf, Returned, one of the cards I consider pretty much perfect, that means a lot.
I had thought about the potential for skirmish canceling, but ruled that out since you can't cancel the RB's skirmish. I had also thought of the Shadow player coming up with some way to keep minions from being assigned to Aragorn...but the thought of cards like Dark Horseman hadn't even occurred to me. #-o I'd love to take credit for it, but I hadn't thought that quite all the way through. I knew there was potential there, but the simplicity with cards like Dark Horseman and Her Ladyship and Uruk-hai Guard and others...wow, that could really shake up gameplay.
So again, thanks. I'm much happier with it now. I don't know that I'd call it "perfect", but I think I can safely say it's better than I thought it was.
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Hmmm... I think that the flavour job on Aragorn is fantastic, but the tank effect I think is more important than m64 gave it credit for. What happens if you're not playing a [Wraith] or [Uruk] deck? I suppose you could just play no minions until Aragorn corrupts himself - which to be honest could be an issue as well! So while it is immensely cool, I'm not sure it actually works.
But I do like the Sam.
Thranduil
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I suppose you could just play no minions until Aragorn corrupts himself - which to be honest could be an issue as well! So while it is immensely cool, I'm not sure it actually works.
That's what I thought!
I am actually thinking that his extra ability is too strong. Maybe if it was to wound a minion facing an unbound companion, but now you have a lesser version of Power According to His Stature built into a companion.
As for Sam, I am worried about changing base stats--3/4/5. I feel like he caters almost too much towards small fellowships.
-wtk
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No I just remembered that actually I'm wrong - obviously you don't get an assignment phase if you don't play any minions, you just skip from Shadow to regroup. But still I'm worried about the tank effect.
Thranduil
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I find myself sitting here with a soda in one hand admiring that Aragorn. :up:
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No I just remembered that actually I'm wrong - obviously you don't get an assignment phase if you don't play any minions, you just skip from Shadow to regroup. But still I'm worried about the tank effect.
Bingo. I had worried about the assignment thing when I made him, too...I didn't want to make another Gandalf BoO (against which you can just play and do nothing as the Shadow player and wait for him to corrupt himself). But then I realized, as you did, that with no minions, there IS no assignment phase. Problem solved, I moved on with what you see here.
The "tank effect" is probably the biggest flaw here, yes, and why I'm not quite willing to call this "perfect" as Menace did. You could get something along the lines of an 11/6/11 archer damage +1 Gorn without too much trouble; it's much easier to pump up Gondorians than it is most other cultures, and Aragorn is probably the biggest culprit of all. But still, even with those kind of stats he'll be losing some skirmishes along the line, and since you really need to be fighting with him every single turn, even a tanked out Aragorn like that is going to be worn down eventually. I think he's probably okay even with that flaw, but if you strongly disagree and have a suggestion or two to make him better, I am all ears, believe me.
As for Sam, I was loathe to give him such high resistance too, but I think the text justifies it. With a small enough fellowship for him to maintain a high resistance, you're opening yourself up to other dangers with his low strength and lack of abilities like that found on Sam BoGN. Sure, he cycles well with muster, but that's about it....
Ah, another Aragorn endorsement by Socks. I'm pleasantly surprised at all the positive feedback. Thanks, guys. :)
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I can't think of anything particularly obvious to fix him with - he's the sort of card you need to playtest to find out whether he's balanced, I reckon. But just a quick point on his subtitle, wouldn't something about heritage, leadership or destiny be more appropriate than might?
Thranduil
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Funny thing: I originally had it as Bearer of Heritage, but changed it last minute to more match up with his likely tanking. I'd be happy to change it back to that or something else, though.
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Having a strong Ring-bearer has a funny effect on the course of the game, especially one that requires you to use him in skirmishes. One way or the other every Shadow player is going to start focusing all of their attention onto tanking one minion at a time. That tanked minion will either be thrown onto a non-RB companion (who will get really hurt or killed outright) or assigned to Aragorn.
Using a very powerful Ring-bearer like your Aragorn isn't really as much a perk as it is a liability.
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Right, I had that exact same thought as I designed this Aragorn, Menace. But you don't even have to focus on building one minion up. If your opponent tosses out something like a Demon of Might or Sauron and doesn't bother with other minions, then you're in BIG trouble. Obviously you have to assign him to Gorn at least once, but what about after that? They're both fierce and have damage, after all. So do you hope you can survive the wounds of two bouts with Aragorn or add up a bunch of burdens at once? And then what happens the NEXT time Gorn has to skirmish? A deck without stronger minions doesn't hurt too much here, I agree (though swarms sure can!), but all you have to do is have one minion that's stronger than Aragorn and keep putting the two of them together. Sometimes that might mean you have to play ONLY that minion to ensure you get him on the Ring-bearer, but if it's a big enough minion, who cares?
You're likely not going to start getting to Aragorn until later in the game, but once you do, wounds and/or burdens can really pile on fast.
I'm happy that I have seemingly touched the third rail of DC design and survived with an actual, working, mostly solid Aragorn RB. But uh...any more comments on Sam? Poor guy is like the Rodney Dangerfield of this thread. :P
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Sam's kewl. ;)
and like that away I go!
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Hmmm.... I do think that Sam would probably be fine with only resistance 10.
And I think I like "Bearer of Destiny" for Aragorn.
Thranduil
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There's a Sam?
Oh.
There he is.
...
It's a Sam ARB. Not a whole lot to say. I agree that his resistance should be 10.
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Poor little Sam. :P
I actually had a slightly different idea for him. I dropped his resistance to 10, but it's now reduced in a slightly different way.
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Poor little Sam. :P
I actually had a slightly different idea for him. I dropped his resistance to 10, but it's now reduced in a slightly different way.
Yes! Now I love that Sam!
-wtk
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dain, why didn't you ever make a bombadil ARB? i think you might be the man for the job.