The Last Homely House

Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: OneFathom on June 20, 2008, 02:10:16 PM

Title: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: OneFathom on June 20, 2008, 02:10:16 PM
Just an odd question I'm posing regarding the RotK Mumak Commander and the Hunters Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings.

Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings says exert Mumak Commander twice to exert a companion twice.  If you had both out, which you can because the RotK version is non-unique, could you use exert him twice to exert a companion twice even though that's not in his individual text?  My guess is you probably can't, but just curious.  Any guesses? 

OF
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: SomeRandomDude on June 20, 2008, 02:18:06 PM
Hm...can you really have both out? If so, can you say...Seasoned Leader? :twisted: That would rock.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: TheJord on June 20, 2008, 02:42:31 PM
Mumak Commander, GatS is unique, and as you cant have different copies of companions with different subtitles, then you cant have both of these out.

Sorry to ruin the idea  :(
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: FM on June 20, 2008, 03:04:47 PM
And even if you could, whenever a card refers to itself by name, it means that specific object, so the ability of a Mumak Commander could only be used to exert that specific Mumak Commander. Not sure I'm making myself clear enough...
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: TheJord on June 20, 2008, 03:12:01 PM
Well this situation would never occur as gametext only refers to itself by name when it is unique, and therefore wouldnt ever provide the opportunity to activate an ability that is not its own.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: SomeRandomDude on June 20, 2008, 03:19:01 PM
He's right in MtG, but out of it with LotR. Ignore him.

(just kidding)

TJ's point is the best, so I go with it.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: OneFathom on June 20, 2008, 03:24:38 PM
To all-thanks for the quick response.  Glad we could put that one to rest.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: Thranduil on June 21, 2008, 03:25:47 PM
I'm not sure that you can't play 7R152 then play 15R86. This is what the comprehensive rule says about uniqueness:

Quote from: Comprehensive Rulebook
When a unique card is in play and currently active, you cannot play another card that has the same title.
If you play 7R152 first, you do not have a unique Mumak Commander in play and active, so it would surely appear that you can play another card with that title. If, however, you played 15R86 first, then you clearly would not be able to then play 7R152 because they have the same title.

Assuming that's true, then yes you could exert 7R152 twice using the ability on 15R86 because the latter says 'Exert Mumak Commander twice' which includes any card with the title 'Mumak Commander'.

Thranduil
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: FingolfinFinwe on June 21, 2008, 08:14:56 PM
Ok that's sick.  Makes sense though, That's how I'd play it.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: Elessar's Socks on June 21, 2008, 10:34:50 PM
What I was expecting to see: "You cannot play a card that has the same title as another card in play and currently active if one of them is unique."

Which as Thranduil pointed out isn't what the the rulebook actually says: "When a unique card is in play and currently active, you cannot play another card that has the same title."

And also the example given by the rulebook supports the second: "You may have only one card with the card title of •Gandalf in play at one time."

Even though I wasn't expecting this, it does seem like Mumak Commander GAtS can be played after RotK Mumak Commander.

What does Bib have to say?

And even if you could, whenever a card refers to itself by name, it means that specific object, so the ability of a Mumak Commander could only be used to exert that specific Mumak Commander. Not sure I'm making myself clear enough...
I remember MtG states this rule explicitly, but I don't think there's an equivalent rule in LotR.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: FM on June 22, 2008, 09:38:11 AM
Yeah, I think it would've gotten to that eventually, but the game ended up dying before this could come up, so, unfortunately, it seems it works as Thranduil pointed, since no more ruling updates will be made to the game.
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: CarpeGuitarrem on June 22, 2008, 01:22:49 PM
So remind me again why they printed a unique card with the same title as a non-unique card? *shakes head*
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: SomeRandomDude on June 22, 2008, 02:42:57 PM
So remind me again why they printed a unique card with the same title as a non-unique card? *shakes head*

Because their name is "Decipher Inc."
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: mister_moe on January 12, 2009, 01:49:13 AM
hallo, even though there is a different question.... WHAT DO YOU WANT WITH A MUMAL COMMANDER  from Rotk????

<Offensive part was removed. We do not tolerate offensive behavior toward fellow forumers, no matter how strongly you feel about a subject. If you can't say it in a polite way, don't say it at all.>~FM
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: TheJord on January 12, 2009, 05:48:11 AM
mister_moe none of your comments were very constructive. Either help out with the question, or if you want to go on about Mumak Commander being a crap card, do it in a civilized way
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: leokula on January 12, 2009, 06:03:07 AM
I honestly think these questions about wether or not one can do absurd and ridiculous things because of some flaw with the rules is a waste of keystrokes  :-| ???

Alright, after 3 pages of discussion, let's say you can do the exertion on the ROTK mummak commander (there will still be like 30% who don't agree) ... what did we learn from it? That the rules need correction? ahhh nice!! I didn't know that  :-k  :down:
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: Gate Troll on January 15, 2009, 08:37:49 AM
hallo, even though there is a different question.... WHAT DO YOU WANT WITH A MUMAL COMMANDER  from Rotk????

Dude, read the page. He wanted to know if he could do something broken or not, and whether it was within the rules. Just because Mumak Commander GatS is used more doesn't mean the RotK Mumak Commander isn't any good.
Back in its day it was really, really nasty. Oh, and btw, check your spelling.  8-)
Title: Re: Mumak Commander and *Mumak Commander, GotS
Post by: TheJord on January 15, 2009, 03:33:40 PM
Back on to the point, I already stated that when a unique card refers an ability of itself it cannot be activated by anything else.

Also, playing a Unique card when a non-Unique card with the same title is out is also something you cannot do.

And thus endeth this discussion