The Last Homely House

Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: Gil-Estel on February 26, 2010, 11:36:32 PM

Title: Deep in Thought
Post by: Gil-Estel on February 26, 2010, 11:36:32 PM
I came across this situation recently: Deep in Thought was played at no effect. Can that be done? It says spot Gandalf and 4 twilight tokens to. But if you just want to get rid of it?
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: jdizzy001 on February 27, 2010, 12:17:06 AM
why not?  did the freeps pay 4 twilight?  During a skirmish, regarldess of whether you win or lose, can you play skirmish events?  So why not manuvers?
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MR. Lurtzy on February 27, 2010, 12:20:19 AM
Were there any shadow conditions in play?
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: Gil-Estel on February 27, 2010, 12:38:29 AM
Sorry, there were no conditions, but there wasn't 4 pool at the time of playing the card.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MuadDib85 on February 27, 2010, 12:41:44 AM
I think it was my game you are talking about. I wanted to play it for no effect with out any twilite in play and no shadow conditions. After GE said that it was not allowed I realised he was right and did not play it. If there was were four twilite already in play I see no reason why it couldn't be played (cost for no effect). I don't think it makes any difference at all whether or not there are any shadow conditions in play. (I was using the twilite Gandalf and wanted to make him stronger).
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MR. Lurtzy on February 27, 2010, 12:49:20 AM
I don't think it makes any difference at all whether or not there are any shadow conditions in play.
I would think that if there were shadow conditions in play, they would have to be discarded.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MuadDib85 on February 27, 2010, 12:49:43 AM
duh.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MR. Lurtzy on February 27, 2010, 12:50:30 AM
That's why I quoted. :)
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MuadDib85 on February 27, 2010, 12:57:46 AM
I don't think anyone is confused about whether or not the DIT can discard shadow conditions..

Unless you are?

Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: Elessar's Socks on February 27, 2010, 06:47:47 AM
Requirements (which include spotting and checking that all costs can be paid) must be met before playing a card. So without [4] in the pool here already, DiT can't be played and let to fizzle.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: ket_the_jet on February 27, 2010, 08:54:21 AM
Elessar's Socks is correct. Without [4], the event cannot be played. Discard it in the regroup phase and apologies to Gandalf, the White Wizard. Should have used Mithrandir! Mithrandir!
-wtk
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: Kralik on February 27, 2010, 09:06:14 AM
Or do what I do... find a possession that can be transferred between characters and move it back and forth about 200 times. Twilight problems solved!

Granted, I've only really done with with my OP Durin's Secret deck, since twilight is a non-issue. But I may use it with my [Gondor] Wraiths with Gandy Support.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: ket_the_jet on February 27, 2010, 09:18:12 AM
Clever, Kralik. Have an oatmeal cookie. :gp:
-wtk
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MuadDib85 on February 27, 2010, 03:18:39 PM
Thank you ES and Kralik.
If there was were four twilite already in play I see no reason why it couldn't be played (cost for no effect). I don't think it makes any difference at all whether or not there are any shadow conditions in play.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: Gwaihir on February 27, 2010, 03:43:55 PM
Wait, I disagree with ket.  The requirement to play the card is to pay [4].  The requirement to get the benefit, discard all shadow conditions, is to spot [4] and gandalf.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: MuadDib85 on February 27, 2010, 03:50:24 PM
No. The requirement to play the card is to Spot Gandalf and four twilite. If you can't do that, you can't play it at all.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: Elessar's Socks on February 27, 2010, 03:53:31 PM
We're going by these:

Quote from: CR, cost
You must meet any requirements to play a card (or perform an action) before paying its costs. (See spot.)

Quote from: CR, spot
The word spot sets up a requirement for playing a card or using a special ability in conjunction with a noun such as, “To play, spot an Elf.”

The twilight cost is (thankfully) an honest-to-goodness cost, but spotting Gandalf and [4] are both requirements. You don't play DiT and then attempt to spot those.
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: ket_the_jet on February 27, 2010, 04:01:40 PM
!Gwaihir: The cost of the card is spotting Gandalf and [4] and adding an additional [4]. The effect is discarding all Shadow conditions.
-wtk

Edit: Whoops, MD and ES already covered that for me.
-wtk
Title: Re: Deep in Thought
Post by: Sam, Great Elf Warrior on February 27, 2010, 10:19:55 PM
Look at it this way:
1. Spot requirements (spot Gandalf and [4] at a time when it is your turn to perform a Maneuver phase action).
2. Pay costs (add [4] more and discard Deep in Thought from hand).
3. Perform effects (discard all Shadow conditions).