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Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: KANEfreak69 on March 17, 2010, 03:12:08 AM

Title: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: KANEfreak69 on March 17, 2010, 03:12:08 AM
•Elladan, Son of Elrond (14R2) and •Elrohir, Son of Elrond (14R3)

ok now there ability says that if they can spot each other there twilight it -2 both. Now there twilight cost both is 3 each but when they spot each other it becomes 1 each to equal 2, my question is are you able to play more companions in the starting fellowship up to 2 twilight cost?
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: MuadDib85 on March 17, 2010, 03:24:42 AM
Interesting question. I would say yes. Start the brothers for 4 twilight, then while both are on the table they are now worth only 2 twilight total, so you should be able to use another 2 twilight for more companion/s.

Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: MR. Lurtzy on March 17, 2010, 03:35:28 AM
If one of them is already in play, you cannot reduce his twilight cost.
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: MuadDib85 on March 17, 2010, 03:37:31 AM
While both are on the table wouldn't both of their game texts be activated?

I think yes.

Use one to reduce the other, then use both...
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: ket_the_jet on March 17, 2010, 03:38:03 AM
Actually, the answer is "no."

You play your starting Fellowship one at a time. So you play one first at [3] and the second at [1].

Similarly, you could not start Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark and Theoden, Leader of Spears. One costs [3] and the other would then be [2], not [2] each.
-wtk
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: MuadDib85 on March 17, 2010, 03:41:47 AM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: MuadDib85 on March 17, 2010, 03:44:40 AM
So once on the table their twilight costs can't be changed?

Is that in the rule book somewhere?
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: ket_the_jet on March 17, 2010, 03:51:30 AM
Yes.

Starting Fellowship companions are played one at a time. The companion is placed on the table, then you play your first companion. That companion will always be at the printed cost, unless it has a stipulation affecting it's own cost. For instance, you could start Boromir, Bearer of Council and Faramir, Prince of Ithilien would be [2]. But if you started Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir, you would not want to start Faramir, Prince of Ithilien as your first companion as he would cost [3]. You could play a Denethor and then Faramir, Prince of Ithilien for [2].

Point being, once a character is in play, its twilight cost is not changed and you don't get more 'resource points' and they are not 'refunded.'
 -wtk
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: Kralik on March 17, 2010, 05:34:38 AM
ket: Are you thinking of a different Faramir?

MuadDib: Think of it this way: You have [4] twilight tokens. Pay the cost for each character as you play them.
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: ket_the_jet on March 17, 2010, 05:45:57 AM
Apparently. I should have stuck with my [Rohan] example, as apparently there is no Faramir that is -1 while you can spot a [Gondor] man.

Whoops, sorry, and disregard!
-wtk
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: Gil-Estel on March 17, 2010, 06:18:38 AM
There is such a faramir, actually. Prince of Ithilien.
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: ket_the_jet on March 17, 2010, 06:41:05 AM
There is such a faramir, actually. Prince of Ithilien.

Perfect! Fixed my reference to actually make sense.
-wtk
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: Thranduil on March 17, 2010, 06:48:00 AM
The overarching rule here is that twilight cost modifiers only apply when you play them.

Quote from: Comprehensive Rulebook
Cards already in play that affect another card’s twilight cost have that effect only when the card to be modified is coming into play.

Thranduil
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: ket_the_jet on March 17, 2010, 09:44:06 AM
Thanks Thranduil for going to the source. I was posting from my phone.
-wtk
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: Aragorn_Ellessar on March 22, 2010, 05:03:02 AM
I had this problem with one of my decks, trying to get Elledan, Elrohir, and Glorfindel into a starting fellowship.
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: rujudan on March 23, 2010, 04:16:04 PM
but in the starting fellowship you aren't playing them, you're putting them on the table...does that meant that I don't have to add burden for smeagol if he is in my starting fellowship?
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: Thranduil on March 23, 2010, 04:18:04 PM
but in the starting fellowship you aren't playing them, you're putting them on the table...does that meant that I don't have to add burden for smeagol if he is in my starting fellowship?
All companions in your starting fellowship are played except your Ring-bearer who is "placed on the table". Therefore you always get "When you play" effects from starting companions except your ring-bearer, and twilight reductions etc.

Note that in the case of Sméagol, BoGS, you have to add the burden if he is not your Ring-bearer, but you do NOT have to if he is your Ring-bearer.

Thranduil
Title: Re: Elves (Elladan and Elronhir) Question
Post by: ket_the_jet on March 24, 2010, 05:29:17 AM
Some people run Pippin, Hobbit of Some Intelligence* to offset the cost of a burden that they bid.

I.e., if you start Smeagol and that Pippin, you add and remove one burden (presuming you play Smeagol then Pippin...)
-wtk