The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: MR. Lurtzy on July 09, 2008, 07:32:43 PM
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Does anything happen if you have a bilbo ring-bearer and why shouldn't I keep it is played? Cards do what they say right?
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Hmm I would think the ringbearer cannot be discarded no matter what... but I don't know of any official ruling on it. Tis a funny scenario though. If I was running Bilbo as ringbearer I'd argue that its a draw, since Bilbo wasn't corrupted or killed, it's as if he dropped it in the ocean or something. ;D
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure a ring-bearer cannot be discarded, but don't cards overrule the rules (like whisper in the dark)?
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I guess that's an accurate statement. Technically I guess you could do it. Sheesh now that there's no more rulings from D we're going to have to put together some sort of voting system for "official" rules referendum. Just for scenarios like this. :)
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When they introduced alternate ringbearers, they changed some rules to override certain cards. Ringbearers can a) not be discarded and b) not have their skirmishes canceled. As a result, cards like O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! and Frodo's Cloak no longer work. Yes, cards do what they say, but this is a special case where D changed some base rules. Bilbo cannot be discarded.
Whisper in the Dark is from T&D... 'nuff said. ;)
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LotR doesn't have a Golden Rule about cards overriding the rules in the event of a contradiction.
Some of them just sort of do.
The Ring-bearer can't be discarded or NOLINKreturned to hand, even if a card seems like it would allow it.
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so would that mean that they just have to discard the conditions as the alternative reguardless then :up:? Seems like they would be forced to prevent it.
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I dont think youd have to pay the cost of the alternative as it says to prevent this you MAY as in optional. I would simply not choose the alternative and say i choose the discard bilbo bit but the rules prevent it so the card is done and discarded. Move on.
At least thats how i reckon it should be by the rules.
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The rules do talk about having to choose the action you can fully perform, but it's not worded as a choice here (see Desperate Defense of the Ring). So if the first option will have no effect, the FP player doesn't have to prevent it and go with the opt-out.
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Yeah thats what i meant. "What he said"! :mrgreen:
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Exactly. If a card gives you a choice and one of those options is unavailable to you, you have to "choose" the other (eg. Desperate Defense of the Ring, if you have no cards in hand then you can't choose to discard 3 but must choose to add a burden). But, if an effect simply does nothing (for example removing a threat when there are no threats, or in this case discarding the Ring-bearer), then understandably nothing happens.
Thranduil
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I found this passage on the rulebook:
"Smeagol, Bearer of Great Secrets is the ring-bearer and is bearing The Dead City (If Smeagol is about to be killed in a skirmish, discard him instead). If Smeagol is about to be killed and the player discards The Dead City, Smeagol cannot be discarded, he would simply be killed."
So i think the rulebook mention somehow that the ring-bearer cannot be discarded, even if in a indirect way. In that case i think Elessar´s Socks is right, you don´t have to discard the conditions cause the first option just have no effect and the freepeople doesn´t have to prevent anything...