The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Chamber of Mazarbul => Topic started by: Smeagollum on May 02, 2010, 02:08:32 AM
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I got an idea and it might sound a bit crazy. I want to create a v-expansion about The Silmarillion. But here is the problem: when Decipher introduced LOTR they created something that would limit the possibilities: The One Ring. Obviously there wasn't a one ring yet in the first parts of The Silmarillion.
So I was thinking: why not replacing The One Ring with something simulair. Now that might be difficult. Imo there are two options:
1. Ainulindalë: The song that tells of the creation of Eä. In this concept Ainulindalë will replace The One Ring. The principe of burdens stay the same. If there are 10 burdens you obviously played Morgoth's music. In this case there can be no bearer, but I think something like a performer or something.
2. The Silmarillion (problem here there are three of them). with this concept one of the Silmarillion will replace The One Ring. Here there can be a bearer. Thing is I have not a real good idea how it should work with burdens.
In both concepts it should be possible to play evil characters as kind of fellowship.
So here I ask you to help creating this V-set. What should replace The One Ring? Let the discussion begin :)
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I have never read the Silmarillon so I can't really help you. However, it sounds like it is such a different story than LOTR than it would probably have to be a new block in it's own unless you X-List all the Free Peoples card that makes no sense ex. Frodo, Boromir, etc. Replacing the Ring by something else is also a possibility. Actually, you could make a DC set using Decipher's rules about anything (ex. Santa Claus having to carry his bag of gift around the world, the 9 sites. Each time there is a burden you have lost a gift.)
I think that this is a good idea, it would require a lot of work. I cannot really help you except for DC reviews.
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Indeed it need to be a new block. I, however would like to advise you to read the Silmarillion; it's actually better written then lotr. Besides that I don't think anything have to be x-listed.
If for instance the one ring is replaced by Ainulindalë then you'll also have to bring in a new keyword The ring has a bearer apiece of music does not have a bearer. And also for the Sillmarillen a new keyword can be a created. So instead of bearer it becomes wearer or composer or something more appropriate.
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Maybe introduce a new card type, similar to the Objective cards in SWCCG, that will cover the various quests in The Silmarillion. These cards would
have a wall of text set down additional rules for the game, perhaps modifying win/lose conditions, and be borne by the main character (with the possibility of other characters continuing the quest if the main character is killed).
More gameplay possibilities if these cards were double-sided. :hey:
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Maybe introduce a new card type, similar to the Objective cards in SWCCG, that will cover the various quests in The Silmarillion. These cards would have a wall of text set down additional rules for the game, perhaps modifying win/lose conditions, and be borne by the main character (with the possibility of other characters continuing the quest if the main character is killed).
More gameplay possibilities if these cards were double-sided. :hey:
So instead of a ring you think of an Objective-like card for instance Ainulindalë?
Here an example for a silmarillion character:
[2] •Beleg Cúthalion, Grey-elf of Doriath.[Elven]
6
3
7
Companion
Archer
At the start of the archery phase, you may skip the rest of the Archery phase to heal this character once (or twice if you have Innitiative).
"In the morning Beleg, being swiftly healed of his pains, after the manner of the Elven-folk of old, spoke to Túrin apart."
2nd option for this character:
[2] •Beleg Cúthalion, Grey-elf of Doriath.[Elven]
6
3
7
Companion
Archer
At the start of the archery phase, you may make an opponent draw 2 cards. That player then chooses to either let Beleg Cúthalion heal twice or skip the Archery phase.
"In the morning Beleg, being swiftly healed of his pains, after the manner of the Elven-folk of old, spoke to Túrin apart."
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Maybe introduce a new card type, similar to the Objective cards in SWCCG, that will cover the various quests in The Silmarillion. These cards would have a wall of text set down additional rules for the game, perhaps modifying win/lose conditions, and be borne by the main character (with the possibility of other characters continuing the quest if the main character is killed).
More gameplay possibilities if these cards were double-sided. :hey:
What do you think about this Objective:
[ring] The Ainulindalë
Deep, Wide and Beautiful...
Strength: +2
Game Text: At the start of each of your turns, you may draw a card.
Response: If the [ring] bearer is about to take a wound, he may perform Ainulindalë until the regroup phase. While performing Ainulindalë, each time the [ring] bearer is about to take a wound, add a burden instead.
Response: Flip Ainulindalë when the [ring] bearer is exhausted or if there are 5 burdens on Ainulindalë; Discard the top card of your Draw Deck
[ring] The Ainulindalë
.. Loud, Vain and Arrogant.
Strength: +2
Game Text: At the start of each of your turns, you must discard a card from hand at random.
Response: If the [ring] bearer is about to take a wound, he may perform Ainulindalë until the regroup phase. While performing Ainulindalë, each time the [ring] bearer is about to take a wound, add a burden instead.
Response: Flip Ainulindalë back when the [ring] bearer has no wounds and there are less then 5 burdens on Ainulindalë; You may take a card from your discard pile into hand.
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Interesting concept. You'll need to make more cards before I can truly understand its full potential.
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Linking the card flip to a change in the Music is a nice touch! I'm wondering if on some versions the flip text should be a required action, giving Shadow players an opportunity to forcefully manipulate it.
Originally I envisioned Objective cards as "setting the stage"; something that would give a set of cards structure (as The Silmarillion is a collection of stories), instead of characters from all different Ages mixing together for a vague purpose. I do think The Ainulindalë card type is an elegant concept, though (for an "item" being borne, it's flexible enough for different scenarios), so maybe Objectives could see form in another way--depends on how much you want to shake up the game, really.
Double-sided foil cards, yes? (And thus my true plan is revealed, mwahaha!!)
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I have been thinking about a Silmarillion set, and you could add another option. The fellowship could be defending Nimloth, but I would rather go for the Silmarils. Maybe something that can corrupt fellowship members, so you are never safe.
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I have never read the Silmarillon so I can't really help you.
and you....go and read the book :lol:
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I have been thinking about a Silmarillion set, and you could add another option. The fellowship could be defending Nimloth, but I would rather go for the Silmarils. Maybe something that can corrupt fellowship members, so you are never safe.
Good option. Other options wouls be Teleprion and laurelin. But those trees neither Nimloth devided say the free peoples; nor they were corrupted by it. Morgoth corrupted many by his music and many including Melkor were tempted by the silmarils. So the music or the silmarils seems more logic to me.
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I have never read the Silmarillon so I can't really help you.
and you....go and read the book :lol:
Sorry but I do not like reading books.
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The Silmarillions would be a great idea I think. While I like the idea of two-sided cards, they just don't fit with the game.
The Silmarillions could be a very good replacement for the one ring, as they have corruptive powers. The whole kinslaying was a result of them! You could have three different Silmarillions to choose from in the set, one card for each one, so that wouldn't be a problem.
I'll post a few ideas for them in the next day or so! ;)
I really think that's your best (and coolest) option.
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How about something like this:
[Ring] The Ainulindalë
Deep, Wide and Beautiful...
Resistance: +2
While this side up, at the start of each of your turns, you may draw a card.
Response: If the Singer is about to take a wound, flip The Ainulindalë.
[Ring] The Ainulindalë
.. Loud, Vain and Arrogant.
Strength: +2
While this side up, each time the Singer is about to take a wound, add a burden and discard a card at random from your hand instead.
At the start of the regroup phase, flip The Ainulindalë.
So instead of flipping on other conditions, it flips to show that it's being worn or not?
Thranduil
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I have never read the Silmarillon so I can't really help you.
and you....go and read the book :lol:
Sorry but I do not like reading books.
Doesn't matter. :)
You could just make some of the characters from the Silmarillion in the current LOTR format. It would be easier than creating a whole new mechanic.
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@Thranduil: It could, but then the meaning of flipping is not very huge: there is no big benefit or penalty while flipping. Don't know if you played sw ccg, but there flipping an objective had greater effect on the game. Besides.. it should be difficult to flip. On the other hand your option will make sure that flipping will happen more often; which also can have a huge impact. Need to think more about it.. will come back on that.
@Faelath: Why doesn't it fit in the game? It would be just a new mechanic what can bring more fun in the game. I think it could work fine and it fits the themes as well: The song from the ainu against the song of melkor.
Still not sure how to make a silmaril a [ring] card.
@Gerontius: It would be easier, but less fun...
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@Thranduil: It could, but then the meaning of flipping is not very huge: there is no big benefit or penalty while flipping. Don't know if you played sw ccg, but there flipping an objective had greater effect on the game. Besides.. it should be difficult to flip. On the other hand your option will make sure that flipping will happen more often; which also can have a huge impact. Need to think more about it.. will come back on that.
Yeah mine was just a random idea. What I was unsure about yours was that the wearing and flipping were two different things and that you needed to repeat the Ring text on both sides, but just because it flips as it's being worn doesn't mean it can't also make a big impact in the game.
Thranduil
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@Thranduil: It could, but then the meaning of flipping is not very huge: there is no big benefit or penalty while flipping. Don't know if you played sw ccg, but there flipping an objective had greater effect on the game. Besides.. it should be difficult to flip. On the other hand your option will make sure that flipping will happen more often; which also can have a huge impact. Need to think more about it.. will come back on that.
Yeah mine was just a random idea. What I was unsure about yours was that the wearing and flipping were two different things and that you needed to repeat the Ring text on both sides, but just because it flips as it's being worn doesn't mean it can't also make a big impact in the game.
Thranduil
My flipping and wearing are indeed 2 seperate things. Indeed your idea can also have a big impact. But still need to think on it.
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@Gerontius: It would be easier, but less fun...
If you insist... :D
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Well continuing on the thought of objective cards. It's obvious that the focus will lay on flipping.
[3] His Vengeance Achieved [Morgoth]
Event
Response: If a [Morgoth] minion wins a skirmish involving a Ringbound companion you may exert a [Morgoth] minion to force your opponent to flip his [ring].
[3] Dark Now Felt the shadow
Condition
To play exert a [Morgoth] minion. While you can spot this condition a [ring] may not be flipped back.
[8] •Illuvatar, Ominent Presence [Elven]
Ally • Creator
Strength: 14
Vitality: 9
This ally may not participate in Skirmishes or Archery.
Response: Exert this character twice to prevent a [ring] to flip by a Shadow card.
Illuvatar has obvious no home site; he's omnipresent.
[8] • Sauron, Tar-mairon [Morgoth]
Minion • Maia
Strength: 24
Vitality: 5
Site: 6
Sauron's cost is + [2] for every companion you spot (limit [8]).
Game Text: If you can spot a flipped [ring] then Sauron is Fierce and damage +2.
Spot a flipped [ring] and exert Sauron to add [1] (or [2] if you have innitiative).
[7] •Ar-Pharazôn, Númenórean King [raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 11
Vitality: 4
Site: 4
Gametext: When you play this minion, you may spot Sauron and a non-flipped [ring] to play a [sauron], [raider], [men] or [morgoth] condition from your discard pile to your Support Area.
(0) •Lúthien Tinúviel, Sindarin princess. [elven]
Companion
Strength: 3
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 8
[ring] Bearer
Maneuver: You may flip the [ring] to make Lúthien strength +2 untill the regroup phase.
What do you think folks? Will these kind of cards make flipping an interesting concept for lotr?
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I'm not sure if the term 'ring-bound' fits with the Silmarillon. I haven't read it... but it seems as there are no rings in that story.
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I'm not sure if the term 'ring-bound' fits with the Silmarillon. I haven't read it... but it seems as there are no rings in that story.
Actually there are rings in the last part of the Silmarillion.
But you're correct; but it's difficult to think of a proper benaming. If people know of a good one then please advice. Would Light-bound be a good one.
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Have a little dificulty with a proper naming for the bearer of the objective. I solved this temporarely (untill I have found a good naming) by making [ring] the sign for the objective. So for as long as it takes [ring] bearer means objective bearer.
If people have a better name for it then please let me know.
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No suggestions so far :(
I had hoped for a bit more input :) Anyway... I think a silmarillion set should have something else as well, besides the flipping mechanic: I'm thinking of doing something with the Void (which imo is the out of play pile); but not quite the same trick as "place out of play". Need to think about it, because it's not totally clear yet what I would like; maybe something with starting the game with an out of play minion (Morgoth; as he influence ME from the void) which can influence the [ring] bearer. I'm also thinking of using some cardideas I had with my virtual shelob's lair set.
Besides that I'd like to ask you people to name your favourite character from The Silmarillion, but you can't take a character which was already named by somebody else. I gonna try to make a nice cards of the named characters. Oh... you can't use Iluvatar or Morgoth!
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Turin Turambar! (You know he comes back at the Dagor Dagorath and kills Morgoth, right? ;) Maybe put something about that in his lore)!
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Turin Turambar! (You know he comes back at the Dagor Dagorath and kills Morgoth, right? ;) Maybe put something about that in his lore)!
How would you like:
[3] • Túrin Turambar, Adanedhel (G)
(https://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.estudiolibelula.com%2Flightmyway%2Fuploaded_images%2Fturin-733749.jpg&hash=f7b50a9ecf1131085126642f889850e87d3dd84b)
Companion • Man
9
4
6
assignment: Wound Túrin Turambar to allow him to Skirmish.
While skirmishing a Dragon Túrin is strength +2 and damage +1. Each time Túrin Turambar wins a skirmish, you may remove a threat.
One of the Mighty Elf-Friends of Old
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Gil-Estel ;)
He is of course a real character from the Silmarillion, and a very cool one indeed. As the father of Elrond and Elros, he took a Silmaril, and went to Valinor, to ask the assistance of the Valar.
Gil-Estel, Captain of the Vingilot [Elven]
Companion Elf
9
4
7
If Gil-Estel is on the Vingilot he is resistance +2.
"Yet Eärendil saw no hope left in the lands om Middle-earth"
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Gil-Estel ;)
He is of course a real character from the Silmarillion, and a very cool one indeed. As the father of Elrond and Elros, he took a Silmaril, and went to Valinor, to ask the assistance of the Valar.
Gil-Estel, Captain of the Vingilot [Elven]
Companion Elf
9
4
7
If Gil-Estel is on the Vingilot he is resistance +2.
"Yet Eärendil saw no hope left in the lands om Middle-earth"
Sorry, I just lost the license :D
Well, will ajust the gametext a bit, but Gillie it will be:)
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Well here's your birthdaypresent ;)
A bit different then yours, but I think this one to be cooler. Hope you like this star of High Hope.
[4] • Gil-Estel, Captain of the Vingilot [Elven]
(https://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fanneau-unique.frbb.net%2Fusers%2F2712%2F49%2F64%2F51%2Favatars%2F552-73.gif&hash=84615cc26239e2f6824f828801c1dcc07cad666a)
Companion • Elf
9
4
7
Damage 1
Response: If a burden is about to be added by a Shadow card, exert Gil-Estel and (T) (U) to prevent that burden.
“the people of Middle-earth beheld it from afar and wondered, and they took it for a sign, and called it Gil-Estel, the Star of High Hope.”