The Last Homely House

Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: Marcoliboar on May 10, 2010, 05:08:22 AM

Title: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Marcoliboar on May 10, 2010, 05:08:22 AM
Oke, situation is like this, if you move to Pelennor Flat (7U345) whit zero (0) cards in your hand then, at start of the manuevar phase do you get 2 burdes or you can chose to discard your hand, which is empty?  :mrgreen: ???
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Faelach on May 10, 2010, 06:12:05 AM
The way I see it, you have two options:

1.  Discard three cards from hand
OR
2.  Add 2 burdens

You have to meet one of the requirements (ie. if you can't do the first, you must do the second).
That said, if you couldn't discard the three cards because you don't have them, you have to add two burdens.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Hobbiton Lad on May 10, 2010, 07:20:19 AM
I think he is talking about the ROTK version of this site. That being said, I think you can technically choose to discard your hand even if it has 0 cards in it.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Marcoliboar on May 10, 2010, 07:37:35 AM
yep ROTK version, but the text is the same except 3 cards and hand.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Elgar on May 10, 2010, 07:46:40 AM
yep ROTK version, but the text is the same except 3 cards and hand.

But there is a difference, you always have a hand, even if it has 0 cards in it.  Therefore if you had 0 cards, you could choose to discard your hand (for the ROTK site).
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Faelach on May 10, 2010, 08:34:34 AM
But there is a difference, you always have a hand, even if it has 0 cards in it.  Therefore if you had 0 cards, you could choose to discard your hand (for the ROTK site).

No.  The definition of discarding in this game is literally taking X number of cards and physically placing them in the Discard Pile.  As you have no cards in hand, you can't put any cards in the Discard Pile - you can't meet that requirement, so you have to add the burdens.

Sorry about the previous misunderstandment with the shadows site. :)  This applies to both actually.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Marcoliboar on May 10, 2010, 08:42:06 AM
oke, so 2 burdens it is :)
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Mythdracon on May 10, 2010, 08:52:40 AM
That site is so nasty with Sauron card discard corruption.  :)
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 10, 2010, 09:42:32 AM
That site is so nasty with Sauron card discard corruption.  :)

Make that Sauron Innitiative/discard corruption...
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Marcoliboar on May 10, 2010, 09:43:26 AM
That site is so nasty with Sauron card discard corruption.  :)


khm khm  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Elessar's Socks on May 10, 2010, 10:34:07 AM
I'd go with Elgar's interpretation about being able to discard your hand even if you have no cards in it... would've thought there'd be documentation either way, though.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 10, 2010, 12:34:08 PM
I'd go with Elgar's interpretation about being able to discard your hand even if you have no cards in it... would've thought there'd be documentation either way, though.

Isn't it the same as Gimli as rb if he can't add threats?
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: ket_the_jet on May 10, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
No, it is not.

With the threats, you cannot add more because there is a limit to the number of threats you have (equal to companions).

This is more like Morgul Destroyer. Even if you have maxed out threats, you can choose to add threats with him.
-wtk
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Gil-Estel on May 10, 2010, 02:18:58 PM
I'm with Ket on this one.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 10, 2010, 02:38:05 PM
No, it is not.

With the threats, you cannot add more because there is a limit to the number of threats you have (equal to companions).

This is more like Morgul Destroyer. Even if you have maxed out threats, you can choose to add threats with him.
-wtk

I'm not sure; With the destroyer there is said:
Quote
When you play this minion, you may spot a Nazgul to add 2 threats. The Free Peoples player may wound the Ring-bearer to prevent this.
So you must add it, but you can prevent it with taking a wound. But if you're full with threats you just say: Yeah okay I add the threats, but no effect.
With Gimli it's different:
Quote
at the start of each skirmish involving him, add 2 burdens or 2 threats.[\quote]
So you'll have to choose either one and if you can't take threats, because of the comps, then you'll have to take burdens,

Pelennor Flat says about similair to Gimli:
Quote
At the start of the maneuver phase, the Free Peoples player must discard his or her hand or add 2 burdens. [\]
So also a choice you need to forfill one of the two.
Only thing I'm not sure of is if you still have a hand if you've no cards in it. If you have, how do you call it then: what is your hand after discarding it..??? Maybe some clarrification about a hand. If you've not then it works exactly as Gimli.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: ket_the_jet on May 10, 2010, 02:54:15 PM
With Morgul Destroyer, you can "choose" to add the threats even if there is no room to add them.
-wtk
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Elgar on May 10, 2010, 02:57:53 PM
But there is a difference, you always have a hand, even if it has 0 cards in it.  Therefore if you had 0 cards, you could choose to discard your hand (for the ROTK site).

No.  The definition of discarding in this game is literally taking X number of cards and physically placing them in the Discard Pile.  As you have no cards in hand, you can't put any cards in the Discard Pile - you can't meet that requirement, so you have to add the burdens.

Sorry about the previous misunderstandment with the shadows site. :)  This applies to both actually.

Wrong.  It says to discard you hand.  If you have 0 cards in hand, you still have a hand, and can discard it.

You would be correct for the updated site, as it says to discard 3 cards from hand.  If you don't have 3 cards to discard, you can't choose that option.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Faelach on May 10, 2010, 03:42:03 PM
The Comprehensive Rulebook says that when one discards, they must show that card to every other player.  When you don't have any cards, can you show the card you're discarding? ;)  It seems to me, then, that you can't discard your hand when you have no cards to discard...
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: ket_the_jet on May 10, 2010, 03:43:07 PM
The Comprehensive Rulebook says that when one discards, they must show that card to every other player.  When you don't have any cards, can you show the card you're discarding? ;)  It seems to me, then, that you can't discard your hand when you have no cards to discard...

Here's a magic trick. I am going to show you what I discard right now from across the computer. Did you see nothing? That is because I just discarded it.
-wtk
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 10, 2010, 10:24:08 PM
The Comprehensive Rulebook says that when one discards, they must show that card to every other player.  When you don't have any cards, can you show the card you're discarding? ;)  It seems to me, then, that you can't discard your hand when you have no cards to discard...



Here's a magic trick. I am going to show you what I discard right now from across the computer. Did you see nothing? That is because I just discarded it.
-wtk
yeah, but you've got to discard your hand... not the cards in it....  :P
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Gil-Estel on May 10, 2010, 11:40:55 PM
The wound is optional. You can not be forced to wound, that would be insane! You cannot be forced to prevent something if you don't want to.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 11, 2010, 08:57:35 AM
The wound is optional. You can not be forced to wound, that would be insane! You cannot be forced to prevent something if you don't want to.

But if you don't take the wounds you need to add the threats in case of Destroyer and burdens if brute.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Gil-Estel on May 11, 2010, 10:01:23 AM
true, you take the threats even when there are too many. That is why you have to time the Destroyer well. With 5 comps and 5 threats, he is worthless in a sense of adding threats/wounds.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 11, 2010, 11:26:00 AM
true, you take the threats even when there are too many. That is why you have to time the Destroyer well. With 5 comps and 5 threats, he is worthless in a sense of adding threats/wounds.

Yup..

Something different... Heije, we both live in the dutch Paradise, we participate in some same tournaments, but did we ever play against eachother? Can't remember... I know I played against Ton and some of your other buddies. But I think I never played against you?!
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Elgar on May 11, 2010, 12:44:17 PM
The Comprehensive Rulebook says that when one discards, they must show that card to every other player.  When you don't have any cards, can you show the card you're discarding? ;)  It seems to me, then, that you can't discard your hand when you have no cards to discard...

The Comp rule book say s when you discard *cards* you must do them one at a time so all can see them.  When you discard you hand that contains zero cards, you are discarding 0 cards, 1 at a time.  Everybody can see that.
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: Smeagollum on May 11, 2010, 02:09:16 PM
but it doesn't say cards: you must discard your hand.. bloody game this lotr... quess im joking here :)
Title: Re: Pelennor Flat and no cards in hand?
Post by: TheJord on May 11, 2010, 02:36:44 PM
Discarding your hand when you have no hand is like exhausting an exhausted companion.

It can be done.

As this question is answered; locked.