The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: Odin on October 21, 2012, 05:27:18 AM
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The shadow player plays orc cutthroat, along with a few other sauron minions. They make it past archery, and are assigned. Can orc cutthroat use his ability at any time during the skirmish phase, or must it be used within his own skirmish? The same question is asked regarding mordor's strength - must it be linked to the characters in the skirmish that the free peoples player has chosen to resolve, or can its effect be used on others outside of a given skirmish while in that skirmish?
How does this compare with healing/enduring nazgul? Ulaire Cantea, Thrall of the One seems to indicate that his ability can be used throughout the skirmishphase and not only in his own skirmish. Are the two situations different or the same?
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He can technically activate his ability during any skirmish phase. However, it will only have an effect while he is "skirmishing," in other words during his own skirmish phase. Prior to that he is merely assigned to a skirmish, not yet skirmishing.
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The only reason I can think you would want to activate his ability during another skirmish phase is to prevent a companion from actually winning a skirmish.
Example:
Cutthroat and 2 Orcs are in play. Cutthroat is assigned to Aragorn, first Orc to Gimli, and the second Orc to Gandalf. FP chooses to resolve Gandalf's skirmish first. The Shadow player could then use the Cutthroat to discard Gimli's Orc, which means Gimli won't even fight. If Gimli had a Dwarven Axe, for example, that would save the Shadow player from having to discard his top card.
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bibfortuna25, Agreed (to some extent...) Does this mean that since the FP has chosen to resolve Gandalf's skirmish, the orc skirmishing Gandalf cannot be discarded by orc cutthroat, since the skirmish involving him and Gandalf has already begun and therefore must be resolved before activating another minion/game text?
I can think of plenty of reasons. Example:
Assume cutthroat has taken one archery wound. He is assigned to skirmish an exhausted Elite Rider with Brego. If FP choses resolve the cutthroat skirmish first, by Bregos game text cutthroat will be exhausted before he has the chance to use his ability (to kill of Elite Rider). However, if the FP player - for whatever reason - choses to resolve another skirmish first, it may be beneficial to activate cutthroats ability prior to his own skirmish...
sgtdraino, What do you mean it will only have an effect in his own skirmish? Assume FP has threats. Assume cutthroat is skirmishing an exhausted companion. If the FP choses to resolve a skirmish involving another sauron orc (and that companion would kill of the minion), could I discard that minion using orc cutthroats game text and thus kill of the exhausted companion skirmishing orc cutthroat? And if so, are you saying that the exhausted companion is in fact not "killed" and thus the threat-wounds not triggered until the skirmish including the exhausted companion is "chosen" to be resolved by the FP?
And how does all this compare with Ulaire Cantea, Thrall of the One? Since his ability says "...Skirmish: Heal Ulaire Cantea to discard a possession borne by a character he is skirmishing.", does this imply it can only be used once the FP choses to resolve Ulaire Canteas skirmish, or at any point during "skirmish phase".
Example where this makes a difference:
FP plays ringbound rangers. 2 nazgul - say Lemenya and Ulaire Cantea, Thrall of the One are assigned. New Errand is played in Lemenyas skirmish. The shadow player predicts Lemenyas loss to the companion, and thus choses to use Ulaire Canteas ability before Lemenyas skirmish is completely resolved (and thus before New Errand's effect is triggered to kill of Cantea). Is this possible or is Canteas ability bound to his own skirmish?
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A character is only skirmishing if his skirmish is the current one. You can activate the Cutthroat's text during any skirmish, so you can discard any Orc you like. However, the Cutthroat's effect (wounding a companion) will only take place if the cutthroat is actually skirmishing.
To make it absolutely clear, if you use the Cutthroat's text when it is not currently his skirmish, NOTHING will happen other than the Cutthroat exerting and the Orc being discarded.
Cantea is the same way. You can heal him whenever you like, but he will only discard a possession if he is actually skirmishing somebody.
For a counter example, look at Enquea TOTO. He specifies that he must be skirmishing in order to use his ability.
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Thank you. I think that cleared most of the difficulties. If I am correct, a card like Gathering to the Summons can then only be used once the free people choses to resolve a skirmish involving a ringbound companion. Prior to that moment, ringbound companions are regarded as still in "assignement phase"?
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Partially correct. Gathering to the Summons can indeed only be used during a skirmish involving an Easterling and a RB companion. But once all assignments are made, you are no longer in the assignment phase. During a skirmish phase, all characters in play have one of these three statuses: skirmishing, assigned and unassigned. Any character who is skirmishing also counts as being assigned.
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Going back to the earlier example, with the 3 orcs, Aragorn, Gandalf and Gimli. The following statements are true:
Gandalf and his Orc are skirmishing.
Those 3 companions and the 3 orcs are all assigned to a skirmish.
Any other companions are unassigned.
Now lets say Gandalf's skirmish resolves and both he and the Orc survive. Now FP chooses to resolve Gimli's skirmish:
Gimli and his Orc are both skirmishing and assigned to a skirmish.
Gandalf and his Orc are now unassigned.
Aragorn and the cutthroat are assigned.
Make sense?
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Just wanted to add: If you discard a character during that character's skirmish, the opposing character "wins" the skirmish.
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Yes. Thank you!