The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Bag End => Topic started by: Xcho on September 19, 2008, 08:43:08 AM
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Hi there all!
Here over in spain, we still flop some mighty Lotr cards each week. Its a shame such a wonderful card game went to waste. Therefore I am wondering if someone is playing with the idea to make a Player committee?
To discuss formats, X-list, errata´s and maybe even a new set of cards (printable)
Open for suggestions here..
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There's been one in the works for a while now, but mostly in the background. I'm just outside the inside loop on it, and I haven't heard anything about it for a few days. I should check in and see what the latest status is....
Short answer, though: yes, there is one slowly coming together, and I personally would expect to see it up and running by the end of the year. Just a guess, but seems like a good one with the rate things seem to be progressing.
Again, just a guess! Don't go and hold me to that, now. :P
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Yes, lots of talk but nothing as of yet. Really the sooner the better, because the further you get from the last physical release the harder it is to garner interest.
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<Barbossa> Agreeeeeeed. </Barbossa>
Yeah, I need to find out the latest.
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DGMA = Decipher Game Management Authority.
(Which technically doesn't exist anymore)
Suppose we forge our player committee as the new Game Management Authority?
I'll help with the web design. :hey:
(BTW - Don't go to the DGMA website, it's infected with a virus)
Bastards at Decipher can't clean their crap up after they abandon it...
In either case, I'd like to volunteer for the committee. :up:
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The LotR PC is now accepting applications!
We are looking to fill roles on the following teams:
- Card Design and Development
- Playtesting
- Rules
- Organized Play (including tournament directors)
- Marketing
- Web Design and Programming
Vince, Chris and I would like all those interested in being a part of the PC Team to send us an email outlining:
- Your qualifications,
- Why you think you'd be a strong candidate (and on which team),
- What you enjoyed in sets 1-19, and why,
- What you didn't enjoy in sets 1-19, and why not,
- When you started playing LotR.
We really want to put together a high-caliber team, so contact us soon at LotRTCGPC@gmail.com if you're interested! Remember to include examples of work you've done if you're interested in Card or Web Design or Marketing.
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Where i can find information about LoTR PC?
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If you would like to know what it will be like, please see swccgpc.com or trekcc.org - we will be modeling ourselves after and working with these groups in order to be successful. As of yet, the PC is not officially sanctioned by Decipher and is only NOW being formed. However, those in charge of its formation (Vince Accetturo, Chris Schoenthal and I) have all been Decipher volunteers and played in and judged world championship level events. In addition, Vince and Chris were both highly respected playtesters for a number of years (even though Decipher really didn't listen to playtesters during Hunters Block), and were both as much a part of this game as anyone at Decipher for a long time.
Basically what I'm saying is this:
- There is no info that can be passed along at this time about the LotR TCG PC, other than we are looking for the best and brightest to join our ranks.
- Those involved in its inception can be trusted to do it right, and with the fans and players of the game in mind.
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Well I'm definitely interested and sent in an app for either the Rules or Playtesting teams. nicholas.barden@gmail.com
Good to have a group of players in charge as opposed to a money making organization that botched the game with RoS and T&D (though it did give us broken-deck players a heyday, but we prefer to leave that to open, not standard).
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I might be interested in playtesting. How much time will I have to invest into playtesting?
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The LotR PC is now accepting applications!
We are looking to fill roles on the following teams:
- Card Design and Development
- Playtesting
- Rules
- Organized Play (including tournament directors)
- Marketing
- Web Design and Programming
Vince, Chris and I would like all those interested in being a part of the PC Team to send us an email outlining:
- Your qualifications,
- Why you think you'd be a strong candidate (and on which team),
- What you enjoyed in sets 1-19, and why,
- What you didn't enjoy in sets 1-19, and why not,
- When you started playing LotR.
We really want to put together a high-caliber team, so contact us soon at LotRTCGPC@gmail.com if you're interested! Remember to include examples of work you've done if you're interested in Card or Web Design or Marketing.
I applied for design ages ago, but I've got no reply. What's happened with this?
Thranduil
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Wow! That is rather cool!
I am quite impressed about what here is going on \:D/
I would like to help either in web design or to act as international cooperation team member.
You know, it is far easier to work within an authorized team than handle the players sprinkled all over the world!
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this sounds pretty cool but for some reason im sure if i send in my application i wont get chosen anyways.
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I'm leaving this up to Vince and Chris to handle, manage, and otherwise take care of. What's always mattered to me with this game has been to have fun while playing or building decks - winning was secondary, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a goal.
As I've spent more and more of my time in the TLHH (and previously CC) forums being made to feel like an idiot for not using NPE tactics, I've now decided that it is time to move on from this game, and concentrate my free time on Star Wars CCG and other activities not called LotR.
No, I will not be getting rid of any of my cards, so don't ask. Though I dislike where some people try to take this game, it is still great at its core, and I want to be able to play this game with my kids someday.
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and we need to debate a movieblock x and r list. The 1 that there is now doesn't make sense. For example Bill the Pony is x-ed where a r-rating should be ok and Redeemed isn't even there....
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As I've spent more and more of my time in the TLHH (and previously CC) forums being made to feel like an idiot for not using NPE tactics, I've now decided that it is time to move on from this game, and concentrate my free time on Star Wars CCG and other activities not called LotR.
I think several of the early committee rulings would nerf the most egregious NPEs. I hope so, at least, because there are several that just beat all the fun out of playing. 'Tis why I'll never be roped into a game in Open. Blech. :-X
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What are NPE's ?
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Negative Player Experiences. Basically, decks that exploit flaws and overpowered combos (thanks mostly to Decipher's sloppy design in later sets) and require little careful planning and thought, but they beat you into the ground and demolish whatever deck you spent long hours designing.
Yeah, not a fan. >:( In my humble opinion, they take all the fun out of the game. But they seem to be all the rage with a handful of people.
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As I've spent more and more of my time in the TLHH (and previously CC) forums being made to feel like an idiot for not using NPE tactics, I've now decided that it is time to move on from this game, and concentrate my free time on Star Wars CCG and other activities not called LotR.
Sorry to see you go! :( Thanks again for your contributions to the database -- it has helped a lot. :up: I would love to see a PC which could guide this game into prosperity again... if one is eventually formed, could you pop in and let us know? ;)
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Hey all, I'm the Chris he spoke of...I don't know what exactly is going on at the moment, I have to talk to Vince, but I just became aware of this site today, so I thought I'd pop in.
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Hey all, I'm the Chris he spoke of...I don't know what exactly is going on at the moment, I have to talk to Vince, but I just became aware of this site today, so I thought I'd pop in.
Fantastic! =D> I'm really excited about a PC, so I was just checking that things were still happening.
Good to hear from you. :up:
Thranduil
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As I've spent more and more of my time in the TLHH (and previously CC) forums being made to feel like an idiot for not using NPE tactics, I've now decided that it is time to move on from this game, and concentrate my free time on Star Wars CCG and other activities not called LotR.
No, I will not be getting rid of any of my cards, so don't ask. Though I dislike where some people try to take this game, it is still great at its core, and I want to be able to play this game with my kids someday.
Well...sorry you feel that way. I think you have a grave misconception of the NPE players. You see, we play Open. And in Open, there's this twisted sense of balance, that is, if everything is broken, then nothing is.
For casual, I think you'd be surprised to hear that my favorite deck is still old school Underdeeps Moria.
I particularly am a fan of Block format, Movie Block, Standard, Expanded and Open. Block format is extremely low-powered and fun. Open is a clash of titanic combos, and also fun. The other formats fall in between.
So standard is a broken format. So? If you want to play FotR or Movie Block, we don't complain. But if you enter a format where there are broken combos, don't whine about there being broken combos. If you think a card should be x-listed, then go ahead and get it x-listed! The first card to hit the X-list IMO is Trolls Keyward, Keeper of the Beast, but I still play it, because it is in the format, and boycotting all the powerful cards to make a point will get you run over, so you can then go sulk about how the game's going down the tubes.
My point being, get with the format, or pick a format that suits your fancy and don't whine about other formats.
Somewhat off-topic, I also find it quite odd how all the people complain about open being so broken, when the people who play open LIKE IT broken. Maybe there's a principle there.
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I'm sorry to see Steve go too- he would've been a good asset to have.
I understand your perspective though, NBarden. One of the other games I play is Warlord CCG. It has an Open format similar to LOTRs, with insane amounts of craziness- first turn kills, sometimes first ACTION kills, infinite loops, the whole bit. There are people who love it, and people who hate it. Basically, we say the same thing you have: Play the format you like. If you prefer a more 'normalized' format, by all means play it. If you prefer the craziness, play that too.
In my opinion, the formats should be somewhat equally supported. There are a few issues in play though: First, LOTR has more 'alternate' formats from most games- All the 'block' formats, Standard, Open, and by now who knows if there are even more that I am currently unaware of. Secondly, 'support' is going to be a somewhat relative term, considering we don't have the Decipher backing that the SW player's committee has. Even if we get their okay to be "official" (which will of course be essential to even getting the project off the ground), we probably will not get the large amounts of product and supplies that the SWCCGPC received, so we will definitely have to be more creative when it comes to incentives, prizes and a tournament system. If anyone has ideas about this, we'd certainly be glad to hear them.
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All I won't to say is don't go crazy with trying to x-list everything a few people don't like. That will ruin the game more than help keep it alive. I'm all for a LOtR PC as long as they don't try to be the 'GODS' of rule changes and card errata and such. I fully support any group that is trying to keep this great game alive and trying to get more tournament support and such :up:. Just don't kill the game by x-listing, issuing errata and such because a few people don't like how the game is going.
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To be fair- the game isn't technically 'going' at all ;) But I certainly see your point. I am not speaking from any position of official authority when I say all of this, of course, but I'd say that Open will obviously stay as is. Standard needs a bit of work, and there are multiple different ways to do this. I doubt we would do a lot of errata unless it is 'cosmetic' stuff- it's much easier to ban things, then bring back similar cards with the same INTENT but more proper costing, etc. The "virtual card" concept gives quite a bit of latitude to fix older mistakes in a way that still allows for the use of strategies and cards that would otherwise be overpowered.
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with all this said I look forward to what can be done, but still dread it to a point cause some people don't need the power to changes cards and rules. If the right people get that authority all will be good, but if the wrong people get in there it could be a disaster.
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LOL, not sure who the 'right' and 'wrong' people are, but I'm sure we will be looking for player suggestions, rather than just unilaterally saying "OK here's the banned list, have fun!" :)
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ok, just want to add my 2 cents:
- Rule of 4: change it in to: no more than 4 cards can be taken in to hand or played from draw deck during your fellowship
- Warg Riders. That keyword should be added to certain Orcs, so that the wargs only can go to the Warg Riders. Banning the Keyward is ridiculous, cause that throws out an entire deck, instead of mellowing it.
- certain cards should be bound to a certain culture, such as Prized Lagan.
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I'm in agreeance with GE, perhaps not on the warg thing, but Prized Lagan needs work, as does the Horn deck.
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I think these things are o.k.
I mean, different cultures have to help each other to defeat the forces of the shadow, for that, the FPP get problems, if he has more than 2 FP Cultures.
You see, Prized Lagan is not that problem!
kind regads
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What cards would we be looking at for errata/xlist?
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Honestly at this point I have no idea re: what we'd look at for x-list, etc. I am guessing I'd be more "organizational" than "game-based" staff when it came down to it. I haven't played a game of LOTR aside from LOTRO in over a year, so some of these decks you are talking about, I don't even know about- like, there's a new Horn deck? I know what the old one did, no idea what the new one is all about. I just read Prized Lagan, can someone fill me in on what the cultural enforcement issue is? I assume it's the second part of the text, but I'm not sure how that even COULD be culturally enforced.
There are people more knowledgeable about the current state of the game than I am working on it too, so I'll have to play some catch-up with them in order to get an idea of where things are.
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This speculation seems rather premature, doesn't it? Let's wait until the PC actually gets going and running first, surely (which I hope will be soon! :mrgreen:).
Thranduil
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I just don't want the game to be wrecked...
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I agree for creating further sets - but I disagree for changing cards, rules etc...
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I assume it's the second part of the text, but I'm not sure how that even COULD be culturally enforced.
Spot a [Shire] companion, spot a hobbit, etc.
I would say that the things that should get first look at are infinite combos (Horn...ban New Chapter, IMO, nobody played it until Horn) and errata "culture-less" cards (Prized Lagan).
After that, then we can deal with over powered stuff. Meaning...we need to leave Keyward for now.
I would say that a combo ban list would be very helpful. Like, certain cards cannot be played in the same deck. You can't have New Chapter and Horn in the same deck, no Keyward and Warg in the same deck, etc. Anyone for this idea?
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Like I said, the old wargs needed warg-riders..it was good.
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This is what I was hoping would not happen... the Keyward is really only good for a single deck type. It is unfair to ban a card because you cannot counter it.
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Frenzy of Arrows needs some [Orc] archers.
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This is what I was hoping would not happen... the Keyward is really only good for a single deck type. It is unfair to ban a card because you cannot counter it.
I agree with you, banning the Keyward should be wrong, but a keyward with a warg is even worse. Therefor I would love to see the warg-rider keyword. Keyward can be countered with Shadowplay and other cards.
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I don't see why you should ban "combo" cards and "fix" culture-less cards. You basically kill deck desing by doing this, discouraging combo decks and rainbow decks (or rainbow splashes, which is ALSO deck design, since it makes deckbuilders check out ALL the cards when building a deck, to see if something outside that particular culture might stand out as useful. Of course, in some cases, errata for clarification or fixing functionality would be nice, but other than that, unless a certain combo is SO powerful everyone (or close to everyone) plays it, then I think instead of banning you could create counter measures for it (or in THIS case issueing errata for certain cards).
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I agree with you, banning the Keyward should be wrong, but a keyward with a warg is even worse. Therefor I would love to see the warg-rider keyword. Keyward can be countered with Shadowplay and other cards.
I think that a new keyword needs to be made up just for the Keyward: Shaky-knees (this minion cannot ride a warg without falling off and getting laughed at) That'll fix it! :P
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I don't see why you should ban "combo" cards and "fix" culture-less cards. You basically kill deck desing by doing this, discouraging combo decks and rainbow decks (or rainbow splashes, which is ALSO deck design, since it makes deckbuilders check out ALL the cards when building a deck, to see if something outside that particular culture might stand out as useful.
Actually, combo decks are strongly against the point of LotR. Card combinations can be fun, but the horn deck is just flat-out overpowered. Its like a site 1 win against any skirmish oriented deck, and sets up a mean shadow kill. There is no counter to the Horn combo, except maybe A Dark Shape Sprang on Gamling with expanded Gollum cards...but nobody's playing expanded Horn, its all standard.
The deck CAN be killed, but I'm just saying you cannot stop the combo from going off, and it leaves swarm shadows virtually unstoppable.
As for rainbow splashes, they're fine, but just a 0 twilight card that completely freezes something...let's just make sure they're at least playing a hobbit in there.
I have a rainbow deck, actually, built on cards with hefty spotting requirements, like Glimpse of Fate, Brooding on Tomorrow, A Light In His Mind and Hardy Garrison. It runs ALL of them. And works well with the spotting requirements. plus, it runs some specialized possessions, etc. Cultural enforcement doesn't mean no rainbow decks. It just means Shire cards aren't being run without a hobbit.
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There are different ways to kill follower decks:
°Balrog 19
°Ninja Gollum
°Archery
°Corruption
etc...
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oh and No Visitors should be so R-listed...1 copy should be more than enough...
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There is plenty of follower hate within the [Orc] [Uruk] and [Men] cultures.
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If you make new cards I would like to introduce a new companion and Culture:
Waren Holland
cost:1
strength: -10
Vitality:1
Culture:Decipher
If this character is killed start a new game of lotr:))))
Just kidding, people.
But what do you think about an errata on Galadriel LR as I proposed in the Amsterdam Open Dutch Tournament?
Regards,
Jw
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we can create an additional set about us! That would be fun :uh-huh:
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What was the errata proposed?
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I was just informed of this thread, so I'm posted. My name is Seth Maser. You may remember me as 2007 WC runner-up and a LOTR TCG Grand Master. What you did not know is I was the lead playtester for Decipher's LOTR for a half dozen sets (along with being the lead writer). I am a part of this group that will be doing a PC, so if you are questioning the right hands, I'd like to hope I'm considered one of them. I know that the last few sets had severe faults, but I can also tell you that each and every one of them were reported and the problems were more with the pressure to force things out rather than poor playtesting. I would give further details but I am bound by certain agreements not to do so.
That said there are people, myself and several others, that have designed cards that were printed and balanced. Those people are acutely aware of the meta and will be a major part of the creation of a viable and fair format. This has been considered since the day Decipher ended its run, not just when Steve came up here asking for volunteers.
We ask that you all work with us and help us grow as a universal PC rather than just another splintered group. Like the SWCCG PC, we will not be perfect, and we will get our fair share of criticism, but we will do a very good job creating a format and cards that everyone can play. Like that committee, this committee is starting with players who have a background in the game (Steve, Vince, and Chris were all prominent DAgents), as well as myself and a few others who are not yet identified. This will be mixed with many of you, rabid LOTR fans who just want to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. This can work with all types of opinions, compromises, and even differences of opinion.
In the end, I'm asking you all to volunteer and contact Steve through the email given, and eventually the emails for each department necessary to run the PC.
I don't know how often I'll be able to check this site, but please trust that the PC is in knowledgeable hands, with people who care and want this to succeed. Please trust in Vince, Chris, and Steve, because they are dealing with all the various and splintered LOTR TCG pockets and each of you has a different idea of the direction of the game. This will work, as long as we are all open and trust that each person will do what is best for the community as a whole.
Thank you.
Seth Maser
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Great news! =D> Have a (useless) :gp:!
Thranduil
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Click me (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php?topic=1886.60)
I think, we have cut this topic in two pieces...
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This one was dead in October, why bring it up now?
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Ah I remember. This topic has a lot of good suggestions for controversial cards.
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This one was dead in October, why bring it up now?
Firstly, it is important to keep this recent, as I think. Secondly, it has been started another time - so some people might get confused by those two halves.
Furthermore, I neocromance some topics to put some life in there. But I always be aware to keep things dead, which, after my opinion, are meant to be lost.
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Well actually it might have some use to bring up this topic again. While Fishfleas is working on a LOTR-PC it might be usefull to have info about Seth Maser again. Then again Seth is talking about it for about 3 years if I remember correctly and has shown nothing to us so far... :(
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This one was dead in October, why bring it up now?
Firstly, it is important to keep this recent, as I think. Secondly, it has been started another time - so some people might get confused by those two halves.
Furthermore, I neocromance some topics to put some life in there. But I always be aware to keep things dead, which, after my opinion, are meant to be lost.
Yeah, reread the thread. It does look good. Sorry I was so hasty to question you about it!