The Last Homely House

Undying Lands => Valinor => Topic started by: macheteman on December 27, 2012, 11:41:18 AM

Title: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: macheteman on December 27, 2012, 11:41:18 AM
quick question about GEMP etiquette, is using cards like lady redeemed considered poor sportsmanship on temp? it is very important to me to build decks in such a way that i am within the accepted general practice of gemp users.

thanks,

-mm
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: JakeA on December 27, 2012, 11:54:25 AM
I've never found it to be poor sportsmanship, though I personally choose not to play her. Just be aware that some people may just concede to you automatically if you play her.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: radry on December 27, 2012, 12:52:25 PM
whats so OP about her? there are other cards that can dispose shadow conditions as well. besides lady redeemed x-listed in standard, extended and WotR standard anyways.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: bibfortuna25 on December 27, 2012, 02:06:27 PM
She's available to use in Movie Block, and if you can't see what is so overpowered about her, then you've got problems. Yes, [Sauron] has the tools to deal with her, but [Moria], corsairs, [Dunland] and Ninja Gollum are all vulnerable to her.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: macheteman on December 27, 2012, 03:33:17 PM
i really hate to see people concede at the sight of her. i'll probably just leave her out.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: radry on December 27, 2012, 03:53:01 PM
She's available to use in Movie Block, and if you can't see what is so overpowered about her, then you've got problems.

So Deep in Thought (3C30) and Grown Suddenly Tall (4R92) is pretty OP too but neither is x-listed?
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: mardukra on December 27, 2012, 04:39:52 PM
Explaining why cards are banned and/or overpowered has been beaten to death.  Yet, new players haven't played enough or didn't play soon enough to understand the development and interactions of this game. 

Explore http://natewinchester.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/lotrtcg-10-most-broken-cards/

Here is an explanation of some key game changers and how they came about.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: bibfortuna25 on December 27, 2012, 07:16:05 PM
She's available to use in Movie Block, and if you can't see what is so overpowered about her, then you've got problems.

So Deep in Thought (3C30) and Grown Suddenly Tall (4R92) is pretty OP too but neither is x-listed?
Exactly. LR is overpowered but the others are not.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: bokizg on December 28, 2012, 01:42:45 AM
LR  :down:
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: MADG0BLIN on December 28, 2012, 02:07:28 AM
I really think she should have been banned overall. I think she is way to overpowered.
With the group of friends I still play in real life we have also decided you cannot play her anymore. If you want the reasons, read the article, it sums it up perfectly.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: janjetina on December 28, 2012, 03:48:19 AM
Galadriel LR definitely is a broken card, it's just that Decipher was late to the party. However, as things stand now, she is a perfectly valid card in the Movie format. Given that, the people who play the Movie format should announce their wish not to play against a Galadriel LR deck, or any deck they consider a NPE (which it may or may not be). As for myself, when she came out with Mount Doom, I preemptively made a therapeutic Gandalf-Elf deck, where I burn Galadriel LR with Saved From the Fire at the first opportunity. That's how I learned to stop worrying and loved the LR.

While I am loathe to introduce too many changes into existing formats up to The Hunters expansion, introducing a custom format based on the movie format, with the X-list changes introduced by the Shadows (with exception of site manipulation / use cards which are overpowered only in post-movie formats) would be a good idea (in practice, I think that Galadriel LR and Legolas DH would be only x-listed cards).

I feel the need to comment on radry's post: there is a huge difference between a zero cost permanent like Galadriel and high cost events (one of which usually needs a combo to work), not to mention that LR works both on conditions and possessions and sets up Cirdan as well.

Alternatively, errata could be pursued, but playtesting is needed to find a proper balance. For example:
At the start of the fellowhip phase, you may exert Galadriel and remove an (Elf) event from the game to discard a condition or a possession.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Zatzir on January 03, 2013, 09:33:51 AM
The problem with LR is that she isn't enforced properly, making her startable in any deck.

She also can discard both Conditions and Possessions, where it should have been conditions only. She is also usable both in the FP phase and in regroup (one would have been enough).
Also, the activation has no real cost and can be used any number of times in a phase.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Nitsuj on January 03, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
Finally, the coup de grace is that she has that ring which can protect against enquea.  Like if you had to protect her and a ringbearer against swarm, that would open a lot up for Shadow to deal with her.  But since you can go up to 9 companions and laugh at enquea, another balancing mechanism for Galadriel (her low strength) is lost.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: sgtdraino on January 03, 2013, 03:30:16 PM
I don't play Movie much, so I haven't learned to hate LR as much as some.

As far as Expanded goes, the only deck I really consider to be OP/poor sportsmanship, is the Gamling/Horn/New Chapter combo, which can be used to play out every free peoples card in your deck on the first turn.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: jdizzy001 on January 03, 2013, 05:14:28 PM
I have had her used against me a number of times. She isn't that bad, however, yes she is too big for her britches.

Also, the gentlemen's agreement among TLHH players on GCCG is not seem to be in force among Gemp players. There have been a number of games I have played all the way to the end regardless of whoever my opponent plays. Conceding at the site of a mere card is pretty sad though.

I would say if someone is going to quit just because you play LR then they need to not play LOTR. It is a fact that Decipher made her, (wo)man up. If you want to play without seeing LR then play TS or FOTR.

I don't like seeing OP combos used but I'm not going to whine and complain about them. The internet is still a pretty free place, if you don't like it, then don't play.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: bibfortuna25 on January 03, 2013, 07:18:06 PM
Decipher was kind enough to provide players with two ways to win a game. If LR is devastating your Shadow, use your own FP to run.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: jdizzy001 on January 03, 2013, 08:04:17 PM
Agreed
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: UnPapayaCoconut on January 25, 2013, 04:21:22 AM
Decipher was kind enough to provide players with two ways to win a game. If LR is devastating your Shadow, use your own FP to run.

We had this discussion in the chat a few days ago I remember, and alot of people agreed.

The thing about LR is that she completely destroys certain decks and makes them unplayable, which itself limits the cultures that u can play and makes the game less creative since u need to play certain decks to even have a slight chance of success against that extremely broken card.
Even though there's 2 ways to win a game it pretty much eliminates 50% of the game itself when u cant contest ur opponent with ur shadowside..

So I see alot of downsides in leaving LR the way she is right now, I think she should be tweaked, banned, or just introduce a "non-galadriel-LR-format".
I'm sure it would be popular.

Sry for bad english
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: MarcinS on January 25, 2013, 06:38:37 AM
Just run a random [sauron] minions and Terrible as the Dawn.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Ringbearer on January 25, 2013, 07:44:47 AM
Or run a #$&*@! of Sauron minions and Terrible as the Dawn ^^
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: FM on January 25, 2013, 08:06:23 AM
Here we go again...
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: UnPapayaCoconut on January 25, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Just run a random [sauron] minions and Terrible as the Dawn.
Well I dont think its quite that simple though, but its just 1 card that requires every shadow side to have tech against this "special" card, doesn't that say something about it?
Every deck you build gotta have a way to counter galadriel or its gonna be completely useless, not only do u need to counter it, u need to get the counter up before its too late.

I personally think it kills alot of the fun when u see the same companion over and over, just because its so good that you cant afford to keep it out of ur deck. (if its a "competitive" game that is)
It becomes a game of use-galadriel <-> counter-galadriel instead of a normal game of lotr.
Just my two cents
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Ringbearer on January 25, 2013, 09:13:49 AM
I must say I am on GEMp a lot and I dont face that many LR. So I think the ever present problem you shape here isnt such a big deal. besides, enough strategies can circumvent around a Galadriel.

Also a point: we had the LR discussion quite some time now, and she is still around. Not that much players found it abig deal (me included). I still dare to play Dunland and corsairs in movie.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: UnPapayaCoconut on January 25, 2013, 10:18:25 AM
In casual games its quite rare, but in every movie block tournament/daily pretty much every1 have had it , atleast in those i played. Sure u can play dunland and corsair but then ur opponent can just doublewalk pretty much everytime :p
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: FM on January 25, 2013, 12:37:56 PM
Well, to cut a long discussion short, bottom line is: there's nothing to be done. Daily events follow the tournament rules, and by tournament rules, she's legal, so yeah, that's about all there is to it.
Sure, people could create a "No-LR format", but considering how dead the game already is, that would just be inviting trouble to the player base, as the ensueing discussion could fragment even more an already shattered group.
In casual games, though, you're more than free to not want to play against a card/strategy you find annoying and/or boring for whatever reason (be it OP or not), so you can just explain you don't like to play against X, click "Concede", and then try another game against a different strategy.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: sgtdraino on June 09, 2013, 07:30:04 AM
So I see alot of downsides in leaving LR the way she is right now, I think she should be tweaked, banned, or just introduce a "non-galadriel-LR-format".

They did. It's called, "Expanded." ;)

I'm sure it would be popular.

It is!  ;D
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Valtor on July 18, 2014, 05:15:07 AM
This seemed an appropriate thread on which to post the observation that on Gemp we now have a "Movie Block, no GLR (10R11)" league type available, which ran recently (7-16 July 2014) as a 10 game single serie My Cards league.
 
Amid all the discussion about GLR, it has been said that to ban GLR would result in MB being overrun by (in particular) Corsairs, Besiegers and Ninja Gollum.
 
So I thought it worth posting a summary of the deck types seen in the recent league.
 
17 players played 2 or more games. I observed 16 of the 17, their shadow decks were split between 11 distinct deck types, as follows:
 
3x Besiegers
3x Ninja Gollum
2x Dunland
1x Battleground Uruks
1x Enduring Nazgul
1x Iseorc wounding
1x Morcs
1x Moria swarm [and the 9-1 winner, props to lorddon!]
1x Sauron Uruk-hai
1x Southrons
1x Twilight Nazgul
 
Number of Corsair decks: nil!
 
I am not in favour of a general ban on GLR, but the experience of this league suggests that her enforced absence does not of itself result in a limited number of deck types being played. On the contrary, the league had good variety of decks, and was actually missing Corsairs.
 
On the FP side, there were 4x Gimli BoG dwarf decks (including the winning deck), and 9 other distinct deck types.
 
Of course, in an All Cards league a different mix of shadow decks might be experienced, but the recent MyC experience is noted for what it is worth.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Air Power on July 18, 2014, 06:35:59 AM
^I don't think one league is sufficient to draw conclusions (for or against) about the meta-game impact of banning LR.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Cthulhu on July 18, 2014, 12:12:30 PM
^I don't think one league is sufficient to draw conclusions (for or against) about the meta-game impact of banning LR.

Yeah, especially given the very low popularity of all leagues after the last collection reset. I think you just wasted your time, Valtor, trying to do deep analysis based on a league where only 10 people played more than 5 games.

I mean, in this particular league only six (6) people played all their games, 'nuff said.

I remember no-LR league where everyone I watched was either dunland or corsair, and then another where everyone was just besiegers. But that was some time ago, and then there were deffinitely more players both in the league and with full games at the end.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: sgtdraino on August 20, 2014, 05:45:39 AM
I'd be interested in seeing some updated statistics on this.
Title: Re: galadriel LR and other such OP decks on GEMP
Post by: Eukalyptus on August 20, 2014, 08:14:01 AM
GLR isn't played that often in the current daily meta.

While I see her as a necessity in Movie (to keep Besieger, Corsairs, Dunland, Ninja Gollum somewhat in check), I can understand why she is banned in Expanded, same with Dauntless Hunter. She doesn't need to be banned, or the meta would become even more stale.