The Last Homely House
Undying Lands => Valinor => Topic started by: Panch on January 06, 2013, 02:05:03 PM
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Or am i just stupid lol :lol:
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Or am i just stupid lol :lol:
Lets just say, that Comprehensive Rules raise more questions than it answers, when it comes to multi-player games. Therefore I've decided not to do it.
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Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooo
Lol Thats fine, some buds of mine wanted to know. JC what questions would be problems? Is it coding or?
anyway no biggie, thanks!
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The rules spell out which player plays the next site, which player gets the first opportunity to play his shadow cards, what to do if there are more than 4 of the same condition in play, what the move limit it, etc. What do the rules make unclear?
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Just a few examples (I remember there was much more, when I was looking at adding multi-player to Gemp):
1. Who chooses the order of required actions after FP player is eliminated?
2. Rulebook only says that "first 4(1) cards of each type have their text active", but doesn't say, how and when, they are chosen. As an example - first Shadow player has 3, second has 3 as well, which 1 of the conditions belonging to the second shadow player has it's text active? It's especially important in case of cards with Culture tokens on them.
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1) I would assume that goes the same way as regular actions; the first Shadow player to the right gets the first action, and so on counterclockwise.
2) FP chooses which one of the second player's conditions is active.
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1) I would assume that goes the same way as regular actions; the first Shadow player to the right gets the first action, and so on counterclockwise.
2) FP chooses which one of the second player's conditions is active.
I think you misunderstood the first point. If multiple required actions happen at the same time, FP player chooses the order of the required actions. HOWEVER, what to do, if the FP player is no longer there?
As for the second one, where did you find it in the rules?
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1) what happens when a player is eliminated is pointed out in the rules under "losing the game". It also says in which order.
2) to quote the rules:
Only the first copy of a unique Shadow condition (or the first 4 copies of a non-unique Shadow condition) closest to the right of the Free Peoples player are in effect at any time. All other copies are also active, but their game text is ignored.
The only case where it's maybe not 100% clear is when conditions are on FP companions.
There are two interpretations:
a)A condition on a FP companion it is automatically active (up to 4 of the same card).
For the case that say more than 4 of the same condition are played on FP companions (by different players obviously) then again the first 4 from the right of the FP are counted (to which player they belong..)
b)The rule is enforced no no matter if they are on companions or support area of the shadow player. (example Blade Tip).
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1) what happens when a player is eliminated is pointed out in the rules under "losing the game". It also says in which order.
Once again, and it's VERY hard to make it more clear "Who chooses the order of required actions after FP player is eliminated?". I'm referring here to the rule:
If two or more required actions are occurring at the same time (for example, more than one “start of turn” action), the Free Peoples player decides in which order they occur.
I'm not referring to actions that happen when player loses (remove his cards, replace sites, etc), but other required actions, that happen in the remaining part of that player's turn.
Only the first copy of a unique Shadow condition (or the first 4 copies of a non-unique Shadow condition) closest to the right of the Free Peoples player are in effect at any time. All other copies are also active, but their game text is ignored.
The only case where it's maybe not 100% clear is when conditions are on FP companions.
No, it's not clear.
Lets imagine, that we play clockwise (turn order) player A, player B, player C. Player A is an FP player, so if player C (closest to player A) has 3 copies of Ships of Great Draught with 1, 2, and 3 tokens on them. Player B (furthest away from player A) has 3 copies of Ships of Great Draught as well, with 4, 5, and 6 tokens on them.
So, all copies of Ships of Great Draught owned by player C can be used (with 1, 2 and 3 tokens), and one of the Ships of Great Draught owned by player B can be used, which one? Who chooses and at which point? What if one of the conditions owned by player C is destroyed, is the next one active immediately chosen, or when? Who chooses it? The "Not-very Comprehensive Rules" do not specify that.
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...and one of the Ships of Great Draught owned by player B can be used, which one?
Who chooses and at which point?
What if one of the conditions owned by player C is destroyed, is the next one active immediately chosen, or when? Who chooses it? The "Not-very Comprehensive Rules" do not specify that.
The rules are very specific. It says "the first 4 copies..."
In a physical game you would place cards in your support area from left to right. That means copies played earlier are closer to the FP player. Hence the first one played by player B would be active.
What if one of the conditions owned by player C is destroyed, is the next one active immediately chosen, or when? Who chooses it? The "Not-very Comprehensive Rules" do not specify that.
When one is destroyed of course the next one is active immediately. Why? Because the rule has no time defined when it is applied, hence it is always applied. Rule rule is a statement, it is not time nor condition based.
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I think adding multiplayer to GEMP would be very nice... I hope that the ruling issues will be solved one day.
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I agree.