The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: Linarfin on July 18, 2014, 02:15:57 AM
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"Exert this minion to play an Uruk-hai; it's twilight cost is -1 for each other Uruk-hai you can spot."
This "each other Uruk-hai" includes Uruk Regular that I exert, right?
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No, it does not. Unless you have more Uruk Regulars out. Because it's each other Uruk Hai, not each Uruk. For example, if you have Uruk Regular alongside two copies of Orthanc Warrior, you can exert Uruk Regular to play Uruk Besieger for free (aside from roaming). Because you're spotting two other Uruks (the Warriors), Besieger's twilight cost is -2, or 0.
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"Exert this minion to play an Uruk-hai; its twilight cost is -1 for each other Uruk-hai you can spot."
with "its" being the uruk being played at -1x where x is the number of other uruks you can spot. Because "each other uruk-hai you can spot" is being applied to the "its" uruk-hai that is being played, I'd be inclined to say that Uruk Regular is counted among the Uruks that can be spotted. As I remember, this is part of what made site 5 in Towers block / Towers standard such a deathtrap. It is a poorly worded card, honestly. I searched the various rules docs around here in the archives and found no reference to the Regular.
Does anyone know how it plays on Gemp? Just curious.
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I don't know how it plays on Gemp, but I always played it the way I stated above because that was how it played in the Two Towers CD-ROM game that came with the deluxe edition or whatever. I naturally just assumed that was correct.
Of course, that's assuming I'm remembering it correctly in the first place.
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Uruk Regular cannot spot himself. Gemp uses his ability correctly.
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It says "each other Uruk-hai". The key word there is "other", as in not including this Uruk-hai.
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Right, but if you play a hypothetical [moria] minion that reads "this [moria] minion's twilight cost is -1 for each other [moria] minion you can spot." He correctly doesn't include himself towards spotting for the cost reduction.
On the Regular, you pay the cost "shadow: exert uruk regular to play an uruk-hai". The it reads "its twilight cost is minus one for each other uruk-hai you can spot". In other words, the "each other" or "not including" clause it being applied to the uruk being played with the regulars ability just the same as my moria minion example would be, rather than the Regular himself.
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Right, but if you play a hypothetical [moria] minion that reads "this [moria] minion's twilight cost is -1 for each other [moria] minion you can spot." He correctly doesn't include himself towards spotting for the cost reduction.
On the Regular, you pay the cost "shadow: exert uruk regular to play an uruk-hai". The it reads "its twilight cost is minus one for each other uruk-hai you can spot". In other words, the "each other" or "not including" clause it being applied to the uruk being played with the regulars ability just the same as my moria minion example would be, rather than the Regular himself.
I've never thought of it this way, but I see what you're saying. The twilight cost is -1 for each other (as in each other Uruk from the one you're playing).
But then my counter question would be, why would that "each other" text be in there at all? Because you have to pay the cost before you can play and spot, so the text should read "its twilight cost is -1 for each Uruk-Hai you can spot".
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But then my counter question would be, why would that "each other" text be in there at all? Because you have to pay the cost before you can play and spot, so the text should read "its twilight cost is -1 for each Uruk-Hai you can spot".
Right, "each other" is superfluous in this case. As I mentioned before, the card is poorly worded and thus unintuitive regardless of which way you interpret it. Either it doesn't make sense in the context of the English language or it has needless/unintuitive wording (which admittedly Decipher was historically very poor at catching).
Gemp has the final word, though, I suppose. Least ways for those of us who play online with it.
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It has been ruled ever since 2002 that the Regular cannot spot himself nor the Uruk you are playing with his text. This is not new information.