The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Lothlórien => Topic started by: HalbaradDunadan on March 10, 2015, 01:24:42 PM
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I recently played a game on gemp, where I had a starting fellowship of eight companions.(I did win the game.)
They were:
Frodo
Faramir, captain of gondor
Halbarad
Aragorn, strider
madril, defender of osgiliath
gondorian prowler x2
ranger of the white tree
Has anyone else ever tried this before? If so, do you have any suggestions for improvement? Particularly I would be interested in a defense against ulaire enquea, lieutenant of morgul.
Thank you!
~HalbaradDunadan
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I think you mean Faramir, Captain of Gondor. Any particular reason not to include another companion and get up to 9? Ithilian Blade is your best protection.
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I recently played a game on gemp, where I had a starting fellowship of eight companions.(I did win the game.)
They were:
Frodo
Faramir, captain of ithilien
Halbarad
Aragorn, strider
madril, defender of osgiliath
gondorian prowler x2
ranger of the white tree
I'm still trying to figure the math on this:
Frodo (0)
Faramir, captain of ithilien (2)
Halbarad (2)
Aragorn, strider (1)
madril, defender of osgiliath (0)
gondorian prowler x2 (1 + 1)
ranger of the white tree (1)
That adds up to 8 twilight, not 4. Are you sure you didn't start with Faramir, Captain of Gondor instead?
Has anyone else ever tried this before? If so, do you have any suggestions for improvement? Particularly I would be interested in a defense against ulaire enquea, lieutenant of morgul.
Any Madril fellowship that has 6 or more companions is going to be in danger from Shotgun Enquea because of Morgul Squealer, who can pull Shotgun Enquea and Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow right from the opponent's draw deck. In my experience the best defense against this is Stewards' Legacy used in conjunction with Faramir to cancel Shotgun Enquea's special abilities. It works best with Faramir, Captain of Ithilien, who has the built-in ability to exert himself during the Maneuver phase. Alternatively, if you can get an Ithilien Blade on your Faramir, any Faramir can use Stewards' Legacy in Maneuver.
Of course, the issue is also getting out Stewards' Legacy quickly, in order to protect you. It's difficult to do that with the kind of fellowship you are proposing. There's basically 4 ways to get it faster:
-Pack 4x copies
-Use Saved From the Fire to burn a guy (need Gandalf)
-Grab it with Something Slimy (need Smeagol)
-Grab it at a sanctuary with Denethor, Lord of Minas Tirith (need Denethor)
As you can see, 3 of those 4 methods require another companion not in your Fellowship. And if you're not using Faramir, Captain of Ithilien, you'll also need something like Ithilien Blade that will enable him to exert in Maneuver.
Long story short, I feel like the Madril decks with BIG starting fellowships generally do not work very well. IMO they leave Madril way too vulnerable to being taken out, and then the rest of the fellowship becomes pretty weak.
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Yes, my mistake, it was captain of Gondor. Thanks for the correction
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In that case, if I were you, I'd go ahead and start with a ninth companion: Smeagol. He will enable you to use Something Slimy to get your conditions much more quickly. With his help you can get Stewards' Legacy out, along with other things that help against Shotgun Enquea, like Soldier's Cache and Storied Homestead. Smeagol also gives you access to Deagol, which can get your Ithilien Blades out quicker, or get you stuff like Ranger's Cloak, which can also help versus Enquea. You might even be able to use Smeagol to get some control over what sites get played, which can be a big help also.
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You can also do an 8-companion start with:
Merry, In the Bloom of Health
Pippin, In the Bloom of Health
Farmer Maggot, Hobbit of the Marish
Quickbeam, Bregalad
Skinbark, Fladrif
Host of Fangorn
Ent Horde
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If you throw in one more unbound Hobbit (Fatty Bolger) you can start all 9
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And you you discard the hobbit at some point you can pack some more strong ent with little to no twilight (Leaflock, Huorn, Shepherd Of The Trees, a version of Treebeard).
Throw in a Gandalf BoO, packs of follower, events, condition and the fp is done with not so many cards.
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You can also do an 8-companion start with:
Merry, In the Bloom of Health
Pippin, In the Bloom of Health
Farmer Maggot, Hobbit of the Marish
Quickbeam, Bregalad
Skinbark, Fladrif
Host of Fangorn
Ent Horde
I cant figure out how this works. Can you explain?
Because it say Ent OR Hobbit. Not like Quickbeam's text which can use both.
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The rules say it counts both.
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The rules say it counts both.
Strange ruling. It seems like it should be one or the other, not both. Because Quickbeam text allows both by saying AND, and the others say or. Therefor you should have to choose either Ents or Hobbits to spot, not both.
I don't like the ruling if it works the way it does.
What ruling is it and where? I'm curious.
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The way the card is worded, it doesn't make any difference whether "and" or "or" is used. It's not telling you to make a choice between Hobbits and Ents, it's just telling you what cards affect the twilight cost.
In fact, the "and" structure is slightly more confusing, since it's possible to make the interpretation that the cost is only minus 1 for each PAIR you can spot (Ent and Unbound Hobbit). "Or" is clearer, since it obviously isn't referring to pairs.
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You can also do an 8-companion start with:
Merry, In the Bloom of Health
Pippin, In the Bloom of Health
Farmer Maggot, Hobbit of the Marish
Quickbeam, Bregalad
Skinbark, Fladrif
Host of Fangorn
Ent Horde
I would also like more clarification on how this works step by step. What does it mean on Merry and pippin when it says add 1 for the ents? Does this mean instead of your standard 4 twlight start you can in fact add 2 more twlight for a total of 6 ? I assume you have to play certain cards in order to make this work. As of now this is so confusing.
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It is simple.
Starting Fellowship:
You play your Ringbearer for free. Now you can play companions up to 4 twilight cost.
1. play Merry for 1 (1)
2. play Pippin for 1 more (2)
3. play Farmer Maggot for 1 (3)
4. play Quickbeam for zero (Quickbeam's twilight cost is -1 for each Ent and unbound Hobbit you can spot.) You can spot 3 unbound Hobbits and 2 Ents with Merry and Pippin.
5. play Skinbark for 1 (4)
6. play Host of Fangorn for free
7. Ent Horde for free
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It is simple.
Starting Fellowship:
You play your Ringbearer for free. Now you can play companions up to 4 twilight cost.
1. play Merry for 1 (1)
2. play Pippin for 1 more (2)
3. play Farmer Maggot for 1 (3)
4. play Quickbeam for zero (Quickbeam's twilight cost is -1 for each Ent and unbound Hobbit you can spot.) You can spot 3 unbound Hobbits and 2 Ents with Merry and Pippin.
5. play Skinbark for 1 (4)
6. play Host of Fangorn for free
7. Ent Horde for free
So without the risk of coming across dumb here the game text of merry and pippen where it says Add 1 to the number of Ents you can spot. means that they have sort of a build in Ent companion with them? I know sounds funny. Usually any time it says "to spot" means (in this case) that the Ents have to be on the table already, and if you are going in order of cards played the Ents come after Merry, Pippen, and Farmer Maggot. This is what has me totally confused.
I understand now (more or less) by Merry and Pippen's game text that adding 1 to the number of Ents you can spot means you're seeing 2 extra Ents but since you are playing them before Quickbeam, Host of Fangorn and Ent Horde are even on the table can that be right?
Sorry this is more or less the first time I have come in contact with these versions of Merry and Pippen and I am just not quite sure how to read into them?
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The word spot sets up a requirement for playing a card or using a special ability in conjunction with a noun such as, “To play, spot an Elf.” This is equivalent to, “An Elf must be in play and active for you to play this card.”
Cards in your dead pile are active during your turn, but they’re not in play. You can’t spot a card in your dead pile.
Normally, you don’t have to spot all the cards in play that meet the requirement if you don’t want to.
If a card says, “for each Elf you spot” and there are 2 Elves in play (and active), you may choose to spot 2 Elves, 1 Elf, or none.
However, if a card says, “you can spot,” that means you don’t have a choice and you have to spot anything and everything that meets the
requirement.
“While you can spot The Balrog, skip the archery phase” means you can’t make a choice (it either works or it doesn’t).
If you are playing Quickbeam as your first starting companion you have spent your 4 twilight for your starting fellowship. So you cannot play Merry or Pippin... Thats why you have to play them in the right order
Merry and Pippin are no Ents... they just say: look here somewhere on the table is another ent; you cannot see him but he is there.
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The word spot sets up a requirement for playing a card or using a special ability in conjunction with a noun such as, “To play, spot an Elf.” This is equivalent to, “An Elf must be in play and active for you to play this card.”
Cards in your dead pile are active during your turn, but they’re not in play. You can’t spot a card in your dead pile.
Normally, you don’t have to spot all the cards in play that meet the requirement if you don’t want to.
If a card says, “for each Elf you spot” and there are 2 Elves in play (and active), you may choose to spot 2 Elves, 1 Elf, or none.
However, if a card says, “you can spot,” that means you don’t have a choice and you have to spot anything and everything that meets the
requirement.
“While you can spot The Balrog, skip the archery phase” means you can’t make a choice (it either works or it doesn’t).
If you are playing Quickbeam as your first starting companion you have spent your 4 twilight for your starting fellowship. So you cannot play Merry or Pippin... Thats why you have to play them in the right order
Merry and Pippin are no Ents... they just say: look here somewhere on the table is another ent; you cannot see him but he is there.
Thank you for the lesson if you will in "spot or spotting" I gather by the looks on their faces they have been doing to much wacky pipeweed (Which I think I remember seeing in the movies .. can't quite remember. But anyway by your comment on Merry and pippen it makes me think they could be saying something like "over there is the pink Elephant in the room, you see it don't you" lol you get the idea.
So anyway with all that said even tho at the moment in time Merry and Pippen are played even tho we do not see Ents anywhere on the table for real their game text basically says they are still there somewhere? Thanks I appreciate your help.