The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Chamber of Mazarbul => Topic started by: Legion on October 28, 2015, 05:04:28 PM
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Hi all, after a long hiatus, I've decided to try my hand at some dream cards. These will all be Fellowship block cards that I would hope would provide some interesting new strategies. As a result, don't expect to see many cards helping Moria Archers or the Uruk-Hai as I feel they are basically strong enough already, as I will focus instead on less common strategies. I don't want these cards to be overpowered, more something useable making some less common strategies more viable.
I'll start off with a Gimli:
[2] •Gimli, Stout and Stubborn [Dwarven]
Companion: Dwarf
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Gandalf Signet
Damage +1
The Shadow player cannot discard, return to hand or discard any cards borne by Gimli.
There is very little choice when it comes to Gimli in FotR Block. If you have a specific need for DoE, you will always us him, otherwise you never will, and DotMR is similarly used for choke only. Therefore straight up dwarves, TMaYOD and other Rainbow fellowships are stuck with Son of Gloin. He is good, and probably better against Sauron or Moria than this one here, but hates shadow pumps (Savagery) and really tough minions (Nazgul). Dwarves in general hate Nazgul. This Gimli has two niches that could see him be used. The first is that he won't lose his Axe to Cantea which is nice, so Axe Strike will topple that annoying Nazgul. The second is that he makes Stone Trolls much more viable. Bilbo is often seen in a Dwarf deck, but now you can get this Gimli to strength 13 against Uruks with this, his Axe, Hand Axe and Bracers, and no amount of Saruman's Power can stop you. You even beat Troop or Uruk-Hai. The Gandalf Signet still works with Trust Me decks-he's now the best answer to Cantea. He might be useable in Towers Standard, being immune to Grima, but I don't really care for other formats, at least for now.
Also it is quite thematic. Gimli (and dwarves in general) were always portrayed as miserly and stubborn. I don't see him letting people mess around with his stuff!
I'll clean this up a bit later, as well as posting more cards here. Feel free to comment and yes, the name of this set is totally necessary.
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I think Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain Race has a lot of utility in pipeweed decks.
As it stands, I think Gimli, Stout and Stubborn might be a little overpowered--you've effectively removed Beyond the Height of Men and The Whip of Many Thongs from the game (which both have high costs)--and technically, there is never a Dwarf vs. Nazgul fight to see how Gimli would do against Cantea.
I don't actually think that any Gimli is underpowered in Fellowship Block (although Dwarf of Erebor is the weakest after his errata). So a Gandalf-signet Trust Me As You Once Did bruiser who can only take one wound (Gimli's Helm) and not be overwhelmed unless he is tripled (Dwarven Armor) would be a mainstay in every deck. He's literally unbeatable, especially considering the amount of Dwarven possessions that cost (0) to play.
I like the activity on the board for sure, but I don't think that this card, thematically is in the best interest of Fellowship block. I would tolerate this:
Each possession or artifact of that costs [2] or more may not be discarded or returned to hand by a Shadow player.
Let him keep Gimli's Battle Axe (even which he gave up to Hama at Edoras).
Also, am I the only one who thinks that Dwarves don't even need that much help in Fellowship block? Besides Nazgul, which they were terrified of in canon, Dwarves are as good an option as any with their cycling and choking.
-wtk
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Overpowered? Against Sauron, Moria and any Nazgul not named Cantea, Son of Gloin is better than this Gimli as they will not be trying to discard his stuff. Against Uruks packing Beyond the Height of Men he becomes slightly harder to kill but he has to have some advantage. Also, if Dwarves flat out lose to Nazgul they are simply not viable, regardless of cycling ability. Trust Me decks like SoG for additional pumps, easing some of the strain on Gandalf, so he's not the clear cut winner here. This Gimli would take longer to set up, but might be worth it in the long run. I'm fine with that.
Anyway, let's have a Boromir:
[3] •Boromir, Knight of the White City [Gondor]
Companion: Man
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Frodo Signet
Ranger
If Boromir is not assigned to a skirmish, exert him to have him replace Merry or Pippin in a skirmish.
I really want to make a Gandalf, Boromir, Merry and Pippin Fellowship work and I think this is the way to start. Probably most comparable to Son of Denethor, this Boromir gives Merry and Pippin a lot more protection at the expense of affording Frodo with none. The exert is painful-anything overwhelming
Merry or Pippin is likely to win against this Boromir (Hosts of the Last Alliance is hard to set up with Merry and Pippin), so you're likely to take 2 wounds, instead of one from exerting SoD and one on Merry or Pippin (almost always preferable) when they lose instead of getting overwhelmed.
I didn't want to give the twilight reduction (it makes him almost certainly better than Destined Guide), but he needs the little ones out from the start or else he really is useless.
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Firstly, I never said that Dwarves "flat out lose" to Nazgul. But it is definitely their weakest match-up.
Secondly, I know that they are called "dream cards," but Gimli is still a straight up fantasy. A strength 10, vitality 7 companion that can't be overwhelmed unless he is tripled and can only take one wound per skirmish? Who cares about Trust Me As You Once Did...let's worry about Disquiet of Our People and Wielder of the Flame (and, in later formats, Down From the Hills). In every way, this card is better than every Gimli combined.
Boromir, on the other hand, doesn't seem so far off, flavor-wise (besides the subtitle). He's doing quite a bit, which is uncommon in Fellowship block where companions seem to have more streamlined abilities. And with the ability to tutor via Farmer Maggot's Fields in Fellowship Block, I don't think the first line is necessary. Ranger also might give him a little too much versatility, but that's just an opinion.
I think the Frodo signet fits the theme of the card better than Gandalf personally.
[3] •Boromir, Of the House of Húrin [Gondor]
Companion
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Frodo signet
If Boromir is not assigned to a skirmish, exert him and spot Merry and Pippin to have him replace Merry or Pippin in a skirmish.
Happy medium?
-wtk
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I'm going to stop arguing about whether this Gimli is too strong or not. I think that he's fine, and an arguement that says that if you manage to draw 9 specific cards makes him hard to kill is never going to persuade me otherwise. The rest of your Fellowship will get clobbered must of the time.
As for Boromir, I think you are mostly right-it's a bit complicated and a Frodo signet is not fitting. However, I disagree about Farmer Maggot's fields. It just cannot be relied upon as anyone with Green Dragon Inn will outbid you, and is usefulness is mitigated as Boromir is twilight 3 so you'd start with Merry of Pippin, anyway. As such, I've removed the need to spot both Merry and Pippin. He's keeping Ranger as I don't want to force Aragorn through fear of Silverlode Banks. I'll change the subtitle as knight and Ranger don't combine, too.
Now a shadow card-more of an errata than a new card, but one that I feel Sauron needs. Stand Against Darkness still can but it, but Orc Banner just needed to be a possession, not a condition. Even decks without condition discard normally would give it a good game, so I know this is not broken-it just adds another dimension to Sauron:
[1] Orc Banner [Sauron]
Possession
Plays to your support area.
Each time a [Sauron] orc wins a skirmish, make each other [Sauron] orc strength +1 until the regroup phase.
Notice that I've nerfed it by not giving the winning orc a boost.
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When I looked at that Gimli, I thought the card was worse than Son of Gloin and Dwarf of the Mountain Race in Fellowship Block. Sure, one can safely tank a Gimli - but he still has to pump to beat a Troop of Uruk-Hai (or play Stone Trolls) and most Nazgul. Besides, it's not Gimli's fault that Dwarves are bad in Fellowship Block - it's that all the other Dwarves have base strength 5 or less.
I don't think Orc Banner as a possession is better either. It avoids one relevant card in block - Secret Sentinels. Okay, that's something. But it's still way too weak - making Band of the Eye 13 instead of 12 doesn't overwhelm anybody. For comparison, Savagery to Match Their Numbers gives me +4 and fierce for zero.
If you give the minion holding the banner strength +2, then at least it becomes almost competitive with Vile Blade - but it's still not really good enough. The minions to overwhelm just aren't there. It's fine that Sauron doesn't do that - Sauron gets wounding and discard instead. No big deal.
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I really like the cards :) The Gimli might be overpowered from Two Towers onwards, but the focus here is Fellowship, and I agree that many Fellowship Block decks would never attempt to discard Gimli's stuff in the first place. I also agree that investing a third of your deck on one companion isn't very helpful when Frodo dies.
The Boromir does remind me of Destined Guide, and like the Merry and Pippin theme. I think making the Orc Banner a possession is good, as it also avoids Sleep Caradhras, but I think it could still affect the orc winning the skirmish, otherwise it would be a lot less powerful when there are 4 out (It's still a support area card right?) and Enheartened Foe or Emyn Muil is used. But of course it's up to you. I do think that [Sauron] should have more overwhelming effects, they have some very strong minions that are relatively cheap (Unlike Nazgul) but lack the strength pumps and Fierce effects to make it a viable strategy.
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Thanks for all the replies! Sorry, I forgot the Support Area part of Orc Banner. I really like Orc Banner decks, but they fall flat to any kind of condition discard, and I feel that they hurt Sauron as it basically forced Decipher not to make any Skirmish pumps for orcs (Enduring Evil is not one you can rely on). When you have all 4 out things can get scary, especially at Enim Muil, so I'll keep the text as it is for now. I'll be adding in some protection against archers, I'm sure.
Now for a goblin. I feel that Moria Archers and Swarm have enough cards to be getting on with, but Beatdown is missing something. This guy is simple, and basically a Moria Orc Swordsman.
[3] Goblin Blademaster [Moria]
Minion: Orc
Strength 8
Vitality 1
Site 4
While this minion bears a weapon, it is strength +2
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Nice goblin :up: He also reminds me of Goblin Spearman, perhaps you could add a damage bonus if he has a Goblin Scimitar? Then again perhaps that's too overpowered. [Moria] orcs can suffer a little bit for damage bonuses though, I know they have Moria Axe (Which is good) and Hide and Seek (!Never used) but that's pretty much it if you ignore the troll and the balrog.
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I didn't want to complicate things with this guy, so I wouldn't make it specific to a scimitar. The problem is that if I gave him a damage bonus, Moria Axe could be too good on him at the early sites being able to kill even Boromir at site 2 for only 6 twilight. He's definitely no slouch, though it could be argued that Troll's Keyward is better, as an Axe can pump him to 14 or soak archery wounds (and get out the Troll). Maybe I will rethink... I'd have him as a common, though.
Here's a potentially controversial card:
Arwen, Elf of Rivendell
Ally: Home 3
Strength 6
Vitality 3
Response: if an [Elven] tale is about to be discarded by an opponent, exert Arwen to prevent that.
So this Arwen is an ally. She stays in Rivendell playing on her Elven harp, not of gallivanting around Middle Earth with her fiancé. This is a huge blow to many fellowships who rely on her as a companion, but she does have two niches here. Clearly she protects your tales, such as Last Alliance or The Splendour of their Banners, but also with Elrond, Lord of Rivendell she can heal every turn, making Choice of Luthien more useful as that is a free heal on Aragorn. She's like a Pippin but for the Elves.
You might have noticed, but I generally hated having my stuff discarded when I played. I felt that Shadow conditions were fair game, but some FP conditions shouldn't be so easy to remove. That said, every deck must be able to knock off Shoulder to Shoulder.
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In Fellowship block, there is Saruman's Power, Shadow's Reach, and the Pale Blade for condition discarding, with the more fine-tuned Goblin Warrior and Goblin Scrabbler also available.
I, personally, don't think that the game is skewed against condition discarding (with the exception being the strength of Saruman's Power, but it also wipes out Shadow conditions) and, if anything, the free peoples have more to offer with Secret Sentinels, Sleep Caradhras, Athelas, Deep in Thought, and The Seen and the Unseen.
I like the idea of Arwen as an ally. But I don't really care for more protection for the strongest strategies in Fellowship block (Last Alliance). I think the majority of these cards are only focused on making the strong stronger. Taking Arwen away from the Fellowship actually makes the Last Alliance deck stronger with the Horn of Boromir having another strength 9 character to draw into combat with Celeborn and Elrond being the only real fighting options.
Observationally, I don't really like the title "Goblin Blademaster" as the goblins were scavengers and the idea of them being masters of combat doesn't fit the theme.
-wtk
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This Arwen definitely does not make Last Alliance stronger. You cannot start her, which means you don't get those bonuses from the start and you'll be really missing her early on if you end up against Nazgul. Plus, she has no protection from Fear or Memory of Many Things. Perhaps she'd be better when playing against Uruks, but Moria won't mind her protecting Last Alliance, as they never really expect to beat Aragorn or Boromir, anyway. I would only use her in an Archery deck as the ability to protect The Splendour of Their Banners and The Tale of Gil Galad is cool, as well as the free heal on Aragorn with Elrond and Choice of Luthien.
How are these cards only focused on making the strong stronger? When did you last see an Orc Banner deck? Or is Moria Beatdown now the most common strategy in the meta right now? When I was playing it was mainly Uruks, and I feel that they haven't done so well from any of these cards. As I said in the first post, I want these cards to make previously fun but uncompetitive strategies viable, which is to my mind quite the opposite of making the strong stronger.
Have another orc:
[3] Orc Mender [Sauron]
Minion: Orc
Strength 9
Vitality 3
Site 6
Response: If another [Sauron] orc is about to take a wound, exert this minion to prevent that wound.
A pretty standard orc. He's good against directed archery (but not mass archery) and can almost hold his own in a fight, but loses out to Aragorn with a sword. Sauron's Orcs like to us all the vitality they have to play conditions or hate, so I don't think this guy is at all overpowered.
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[3] Orc Mender [Sauron]
Minion: Orc
Strength 9
Vitality 3
Site 6
Response: If another [Sauron] orc is about to take a wound, exert this minion to prevent that wound.
Him I like. Wound prevention/misdirection is something [Sauron] was missing that all of the other Fellowship block Shadow cultures/strategies had. I might change the name from "Mender" though, as it doesn't fit the flavor of barbaric, destructive Orcs. I don't think much is being mended in Mordor.
-wtk
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Hmm ... your dreams continue to be rather mundane, more like dreaming of the coffee shop girl instead of Felicia Day.
Orc Mender is not overpowered, but it's not for your desired big Sauron minion deck. Directed archery is rarely effective against Sauron's 3 and 4 vitality minions. I guess it protects little trackers, but it's not exciting. Maybe 1 or 2 would fit in a Grind deck - but I still think I want Orc Inquisitor.
Goblin Blademaster is a starter-deck card. Moria was not designed to beatdown, and it would need much more than this card to make beatdown playable.
Arwen ally is not that playable in Fellowship Block. Last Alliance would never play her - it needs the Superfriends start. Towers Block Haldir is potentially better at There are at least six more playable allies - Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, Orophin, Rumil, Calaglin. As for personal issues, I dislike her because she protects The White Arrows of Lorien - a card that borders on NPE. Drop a minion, watch your Fellowship cards disappear! Whee!
I don't see Shadow players discarding FP conditions often. Shadow's Reach is underpowered at one-for-one. The Pale Blade works well, but requires a decent amount of setup and an exertion on a specific minion. That's fair. Sure, there's Saurman's Power, but that card is incredibly necessary. Without it, conditions are undercosted relative to possessions. Have you tried Standard, where mass condition removal is impossible? There's a reason Wizards prints a "Destroy All Creatures" card almost all the time in Magic - it shouldn't be cheap, but without it things get out of control.
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About Goblin Blademaster, I think the idea is good but requires some refinement (and yes, there were some "masters of combat" amongst them, like Azog himself). Moria Beatdown is totally possible in FOTR block, high vitality goblins are really mighty with a Moria Axe due to their high tolerance to arrow wounds and the Axe's text. But this guy will die easily unless you make another goblin that takes his wounds, or unless you increase his vitality. Here I make both:
[1] Goblin Rager [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 5 Vitality 2 Site number 4
Response: If another [Moria] Orc is about to take a wound, exert or discard this minion to prevent that wound.
So this front-line madman immolates himself in the first assault, protecting those fighters in the 2nd row. This will make the Goblin Blademaster and axe-wielding goblins more viable, even the Goblin Spearman (though you'll still need some pumping method on that guy).
[2] Goblin Blademaster [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 6 Vitality 2 Site number 4
While this minion bears a hand weapon, it is strength +2 (and damage +1 if that weapon is Goblin Scimitar).
I took Dictionary's idea about the scimitar. 10 strength and damage +1 for a 2 twilight minion plus a 0 or 1 twilight weapon (he's str 10 dmg +1 with both scimitar or axe, thus you can save the Moria Axe for vitality 3 goblins). The clear advantages of the Scimitar over the Axe are cost and drawing (which fuel the They Are Coming / Goblin Armory / Relics of Moria machine much better).
Now, the main problem with Moria Beatdown is the lack of fierce keyword (axe-wielding Goblinses are real beasts at Emyn Muil*). So an event like this might be very welcome:
[1] Breaking Their Ranks [Moria]
Event • Response
If a [Moria] Orc wins a skirmish, make that Orc (or a [Moria] Orc not assigned to skirmish) fierce and strength +2 until the regroup phase.
Event, yes. Situational and hand-clogging in theory ([Moria] Beatdown Orcs win their skirmishes with ease), but being an event protects it from predictability and mass condition discarding.
Hope this helps. Keep on posting Legion, your ideas are good.
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I like your Gimli. Protecting your weapons gives him a real chance against Cantea and Nazguls, and protecting your Endurances gives your Dwarves much better chances against Uruks. But I think it should work more like Feared Axeman does with [Dwarven] conditions, as a response action with a cost.
[2] •Gimli, Master Dwarf [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 6 Vitality 3
Damage +1.
Gimli may bear up to 2 hand weapons.
Response: If a card borne by a Dwarf is about to be discarded by an opponent, exert that Dwarf or discard a [Dwarven] card from hand to prevent that.
Unlike Feared Axeman, you can't exert any Dwarf but only bearer (or discard a [Dwarven] card from hand). As a compensation, added another skill: Gimli can bear 2 axes. 2x Dwarven Axe for discarding, 1 Gimli's Battle Axe and 1 Dwarven Axe (or Axe of Erebor in later sets) to clear the board. 11 strength (2 axes + bracers) is much less than Supergorn (strength 14, or 16 to Nazgul), I don't believe he'll be overpowered.
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About Goblin Blademaster, I think the idea is good but requires some refinement (and yes, there were some "masters of combat" amongst them, like Azog himself). Moria Beatdown is totally possible in FOTR block, high vitality goblins are really mighty with a Moria Axe due to their high tolerance to arrow wounds and the Axe's text. But this guy will die easily unless you make another goblin that takes his wounds, or unless you increase his vitality. Here I make both:
[1] Goblin Rager [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 5 Vitality 2 Site number 4
Response: If another [Moria] Orc is about to take a wound, exert or discard this minion to prevent that wound.
So this front-line madman immolates himself in the first assault, protecting those fighters in the 2nd row. This will make the Goblin Blademaster and axe-wielding goblins more viable, even the Goblin Spearman (though you'll still need some pumping method on that guy).
[2] Goblin Blademaster [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 6 Vitality 2 Site number 4
While this minion bears a hand weapon, it is strength +2 (and damage +1 if that weapon is Goblin Scimitar).
I took Dictionary's idea about the scimitar. 10 strength and damage +1 for a 2 twilight minion plus a 0 or 1 twilight weapon (he's str 10 dmg +1 with both scimitar or axe, thus you can save the Moria Axe for vitality 3 goblins). The clear advantages of the Scimitar over the Axe are cost and drawing (which fuel the They Are Coming / Goblin Armory / Relics of Moria machine much better).
Now, the main problem with Moria Beatdown is the lack of fierce keyword (axe-wielding Goblinses are real beasts at Emyn Muil*). So an event like this might be very welcome:
[1] Breaking Their Ranks [Moria]
Event • Response
If a [Moria] Orc wins a skirmish, make that Orc (or a [Moria] Orc not assigned to skirmish) fierce and strength +2 until the regroup phase.
Event, yes. Situational and hand-clogging in theory ([Moria] Beatdown Orcs win their skirmishes with ease), but being an event protects it from predictability and mass condition discarding.
Hope this helps. Keep on posting Legion, your ideas are good.
Well, these three cards make things more interesting. Goblin Rager is powerful. Really powerful - because it will stop PATHS and Aragorn's Bow and Greenleaf. Does it replace Moria Scout in the standard swarm build? I'd want to test it. It might be overpowered. I'd probably make it exert-only.
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Well, these three cards make things more interesting. Goblin Rager is powerful. Really powerful - because it will stop PATHS and Aragorn's Bow and Greenleaf. Does it replace Moria Scout in the standard swarm build? I'd want to test it. It might be overpowered. I'd probably make it exert-only.
I think you are right about Goblin Rager, exert only will be more balanced. It was meant to help Moria Beatdown, but exerting or discarding will help too much the usual Swarm build. Besides, discarding a Goblin Rager bearing a weapon allows to replay that weapon with Plundered Armories, on any [Moria] Orc which needs it and during any skirmish, that combo might be too much for a mere pin-cushion.
Another option for Goblin Blademaster is to make him a unique minion, which enhances the strength of any Goblin wielding a hand weapon (like Archer Commander does with [Moria] archers):
[3] •Goblin Blademaster [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 7 Vitality 3 Site number 4
Each [Moria] Orc bearing a hand weapon is strength +2.
This version can help both Swarm and Beatdown builds, but works much better with axe-wielding beatdown Goblins, and even gives that much needed strength bonus to Goblin Spearman. Then, the role of the scimitar swordsman would be carried by another Goblin, non-unique:
[2] Goblin Swordsman [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 5 Vitality 2 Site number 4
While this minion bears a hand weapon, it is strength +2 (and damage +1 if that weapon is Goblin Scimitar).
A bit weaker, but the new Goblin Blademaster explains that difference.