The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Lothlórien => Movie => Topic started by: Kralik on October 24, 2008, 05:23:58 AM
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Since the question keeps arising, I thought it would be best to repost the closest official word on this format from Decipher. Taken from LOTRO (http://lotronline.decipher.com/help/playformats.shtml):
Movie Block
Movie Block format uses cards from sets 1-10 (all of the 'movie' blocks plus Reflections) and a King-block legal. You may not include cards from the Standard Exclusion List prior to the release of Shadows (you can use the Deck Validation option in your Deck Builder for a list of these cards).
I'm not sure about the odd first sentence... maybe it was supposed to be "a King-block legal site path?" Playing with King sites is the standard: when each new block came out prior to Shadows (Towers/King), the old sites (Fellowship, for example) were no longer used.
The Deck Validator gives the following X-list:
0P2 Bill the Pony
0P5 Horn of Boromir
1R40 Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1R45 Galadriel, Lady of Light
1R80 Ottar, Man of Laketown
1U108 No Stranger to the Shadows
1R139 Savagery to Match Their Numbers
1R195 Relics of Moria
1U234 Ulaire Nertea, Messenger of Dol Guldur
1C248 Forces of Mordor
1R313 Sting
2R32 Flaming Brand
3R38 Aragorn, Heir to the White City
3R42 Horn of Boromir
3R67 The Palantir of Orthanc
3R68 Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
3U106 Bill the Pony
3C108 Frying Pan
7U49 Steadfast Champion
7C96 Gondorian Captain
8C1 Aggression
10U2 Memories of Darkness
10C91 Mordor Fiend
EDIT: Also attached is a pertinent CRD from back in the day - September 2004. It contains the same X-list.
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Great! :gp:
But wait a minute Galadriel, LR isn´t x-ed??? :o
Decipher have really go nutz...
I think we can agree that she is totally overpower at movie block (maybe she still a option in RoTK block). Anyway maybe that´s why my main shadow deck runs southrons :uh-huh:
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I'm surprised as well... Lady Redeemed should never have been printed!
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btw, x means not allowed at all doesn't it? Because I thought some of these cards were r-listed, allowed once, like forces of morder, no stranger to the shadows, Savagery to Match Their Numbers.....
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^^Yeah.
Lady Redeemed rocks open, actually.
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btw, x means not allowed at all doesn't it? Because I thought some of these cards were r-listed, allowed once, like forces of morder, no stranger to the shadows, Savagery to Match Their Numbers.....
See the attached CRD -- essentially Movie Block mirrors Standard Format from before Shadows.
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Lady Redeemed rocks open, actually.
Chalk up one more reason you won't catch me dead in Open. ;)
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A couple of questions about what is "movie block" legal:
1. Are 0P56-60 legal? They came out after the release of Mount Doom but before the World Championship that year( i think)...were they eligible for Deciphercon 2004? I don't remember any Anarion decks back then and they also have resistance instead of signets.
2. Also, when was Agression banned? I remember that the Origins PSE that year was dominated and won by a dwarf deck and that was in july. The CRD that is posted is from early September, after the championship. I know that it was elves, not dwarves that dominated worlds that year, only a month after origins.....i'm guessing it was in the intermediate, but i didnt think it was x-listed before the end of "movie block"
Anyways, I'm new to the board but was a big player in the first half of this decade until the release of shadows and the subsequent rotation. I still play with a group of about 6 of my cousins every couple of months at family gatherings and we play "movie block". I have a dwarves deck that runs four agressions and i didn't realize it was banned until. Great card, but with the rule of four in place, i don't think it's broken. Or even half as powerful as Lady Reedemed. I realize that my questions are somewhat irrelevant about the order of things that happened five years ago, but my friends told me i could keep the agressions if i coud prove to them they weren't banned before the world championship but only after, during the break before Shadows.
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I'm pretty sure no non-ringbearer character with resistance instead of signet should be legal for movie block; but I thought radagast's staff was legal.
I guess if Ghan-Buri-Ghan isn't legal, then radagast's staff isn't as well. Am I right?
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I guess if Ghan-Buri-Ghan isn't legal, then radagast's staff isn't as well. Am I right?
There is no Radagast to play his staff on in movie block.
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Ehm, Radagast is from Reflections, and some include reflections in movieblock
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whoa, so the shire countryside is a legal card in movieblock?
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I guess if Ghan-Buri-Ghan isn't legal, then radagast's staff isn't as well. Am I right?
There is no Radagast to play his staff on in movie block.
There's 0P51. :D
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Movie block was created from Reflections drafts, so you gotta think its legal!
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exactomonto Jordi, it is even more easy to see.
Mont doom, number 10
reflections, number 9
!! this does not need any further expl. ;)
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is there any R-list?
or is the X-list the only restrictions of the format?
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btw, x means not allowed at all doesn't it? Because I thought some of these cards were r-listed, allowed once, like forces of morder, no stranger to the shadows, Savagery to Match Their Numbers.....
No that came later Heije.
Ehm, Radagast is from Reflections, and some include reflections in movieblock
Actually that also came later. In first instance reflections wasn't part of filmblock. That's why I didn't want reflections in filmblock during the tournament in Amsterdam.
I'm surprised as well... Lady Redeemed should never have been printed!
Don't agree with you in that one. There's enough to do against her, but it would have been better if her text was: At the start of manouver or regroupphase or if she had to exert for it.
A couple of questions about what is "movie block" legal:
1. Are 0P56-60 legal? They came out after the release of Mount Doom but before the World Championship that year( i think)...were they eligible for Deciphercon 2004? I don't remember any Anarion decks back then and they also have resistance instead of signets.
2. Also, when was Agression banned? I remember that the Origins PSE that year was dominated and won by a dwarf deck and that was in july. The CRD that is posted is from early September, after the championship. I know that it was elves, not dwarves that dominated worlds that year, only a month after origins.....i'm guessing it was in the intermediate, but i didnt think it was x-listed before the end of "movie block"
Anyways, I'm new to the board but was a big player in the first half of this decade until the release of shadows and the subsequent rotation. I still play with a group of about 6 of my cousins every couple of months at family gatherings and we play "movie block". I have a dwarves deck that runs four agressions and i didn't realize it was banned until. Great card, but with the rule of four in place, i don't think it's broken. Or even half as powerful as Lady Reedemed. I realize that my questions are somewhat irrelevant about the order of things that happened five years ago, but my friends told me i could keep the agressions if i coud prove to them they weren't banned before the world championship but only after, during the break before Shadows.
If I'm correct Mount doom came out to late then and reflections came out oneweek before worlds. That's why there were no Onariondecks and so. Agression became banned either just after reflections or just after Mount Doom.. There was not a lot of time between these sets. But I think it was just after Reflections, because everybody complainted that dwarves had become overpowered.
whoa, so the shire countryside is a legal card in movieblock?
At that moment yes! Only just after release of shadows they changed rulings that it was allowed to play only once. And even that I think is rediculous, because there is enough against it.
Movie block was created from Reflections drafts, so you gotta think its legal!
No it was not! The rumour then was that Decipher allready had problems and they had load of cards from the first 2 set's. They just wanted to cash fast! They did the same with Star Wars ccg.
hmm... the old days.. actually they were more fun and everything was more balanced! I still don't like it that cards are banned.. You can restrict them or errata them, but please don't ban. Play everything! If you think something is overpowered then you should have the imagination to invent something to encounter such things. Eventually people will change decks then. For everything there is a counter.
But just imagine how populair lotr was back then! I remember playing European championship in 2004 with about 180 people and that were just the only people who did qualify! I also remember the guy who played the finals a day before the EC and it was about a few thousand euro. Just before the final he decided to walk a bit. He lost because he came back to late! Imagine that!
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I keep hearing people mention that Lady Redeemed is X-Listed for Movie Block, but I don't see her on this list.
Is that just everyone understanding that she should be X-Listed, or is it just a mistake?
Thanks in advance for the help.
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I keep hearing people mention that Lady Redeemed is X-Listed for Movie Block, but I don't see her on this list.
Is that just everyone understanding that she should be X-Listed, or is it just a mistake?
Thanks in advance for the help.
She isn't technically, but I haven't seen her played much, mostly because it's understood that she is OP.
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Yea, I figured as much.
Thanks.
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Ah quick question can anyone tell me why certain cards were banned like Flaming Brand, •Ottar, Man of Laketown?
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Flamin brand sends nazgul back to the stone age. It was for what it costed too powerful In the days of fellowship you had aagorn with 2 brands being str 14 dmg+2 vs nazgul. Sinec nazguls dont really ahve good pumps, you can imagien the damage.
Ottar was considered (and this I aint sure) too strong for his ability. Not only did you draw cards with him, you get rid of dead weight as well.
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plus Flaming Brand wasn't cultural enforced, so Eomer could bear it too....
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why is 7C96 Gondorian Captain x-ed?
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cause with him and Base of Mindolluin you can draw all the fellowship stuff and you're left with nothing but shadow....
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Ottar was considered (and this I aint sure) too strong for his ability. Not only did you draw cards with him, you get rid of dead weight as well.
Don't forget initiative loss abuse (such as A Light in His Mind).
why is 7C96 Gondorian Captain x-ed?
Base of Mindolluin. (EDIT: Gil beat me to it!) :)
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hehe :)
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Ottar was considered (and this I aint sure) too strong for his ability. Not only did you draw cards with him, you get rid of dead weight as well.
Don't forget initiative loss abuse (such as A Light in His Mind).
why is 7C96 Gondorian Captain x-ed?
Base of Mindolluin. (EDIT: Gil beat me to it!) :)
Ottar was banned during TTT before even BOHD was released, and iniative loss came at MT Doom. I think he was banned before hand, tho those cards made sure he wouldnt come back anyway either.
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Ottar was banned during TTT before even BOHD was released, and iniative loss came at MT Doom. I think he was banned before hand, tho those cards made sure he wouldnt come back anyway either.
Ah, thanks for the clarification RB. Always thought it was due to initiative.
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Why is Sting banned but Glamdring (1R75) is not?
-wtk
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Why is Sting banned but Glamdring (1R75) is not?
-wtk
If I remember correctly, it's because exerting Gandalf was felt to be a much bigger deal than exerting Frodo, so Glamdring's ability was more appropriately costed than Sting's.
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And Glamdring requires you to play Gandalf, while Frodo was in every deck.
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And Glamdring requires you to play Gandalf, while Frodo was in every deck.
Not in movie Block. There are alternate Ring-Bearers.
-wtk
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Hey, sorry to bring this up, but for some reason, I thought Legolas, Dauntless Hunter was on here. Was he ever banned (why do I remember him being banned at one point?)
-wtk
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Hey, sorry to bring this up, but for some reason, I thought Legolas, Dauntless Hunter was on here. Was he ever banned (why do I remember him being banned at one point?)
-wtk
He was banned due to the new unbound hobbits after Movie Block.
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noob question here:
what sites are used when in movie block? from sets 7,8,9 and 10? or from sets 1 to 10?
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7, 8, And 10.
-wtk
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Ket, be fair. You ARE allowed to use any sites you find in Reflections (set 9) as well.
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Ket, be fair. You ARE allowed to use any sites you find in Reflections (set 9) as well.
haha
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Ket, be fair. You ARE allowed to use any sites you find in Reflections (set 9) as well.
Hmmm... maybe some R+ site? :D
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R++, actually. So rare isn't not even in the set list. If only you knew how powerful it was... :twisted:
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I coudn't find a straight answer here: Are the 4 WETA Cards legal in Movie format?
Or: Which promos are legal in Movie format (ie OP1-0P061)?
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GCCG has them pass the legality check, but I'm not sure if they are actually legal or not. Perhaps you could ask wlk, since he programmed that in.
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If 0P56-0P59 became legal in September 2004, and the Shadows X-list took effect in November 2004, those WETA cards would be part of the snapshot of the game at the time. Possible justification at any rate.
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I remember them being legal at the time. We were wondering what the new resistance symbol was all about because shadows hadn't come out yet. I think I saw something that said something to the effect of don't worry about it now it is for a coming new game mechanic. I think that was from decipher.
Obviously I am using many qualifiers, and am not certain, but my memory is that they were legal in movie format.
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What about Steadfast Champion ? Why was it x-listed? I currently have one copy in my Gandalf, White Wizard deck
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Steadfast Champion is X-ed because of the infinite loop with Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood.
-wtk
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Ok two more questions:
1. Why is aggression banned specifically?
2. Why only the Kings site path and not open to FOTR or TTT site paths?
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Aggression is broken card drawing with easy damage bonuses
How would you decide which sites to play? This would affect deckbuilding considerably if you went into a game not knowing what sites (generally) are coming into play.
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Can someone please explain to me (like explaining to a noob) why is Gondorian Captain banned? Gil-estel said because you can pull cards with Base of Mindolluin, but I don't see how is that so? I mean, you can pull fortifications, you have to add threats, you can remove those threats by discarding fortifications and not much is really done. I mean, yeah, you can leave the "good" fortifications in play and discard the "bad" ones, but that doesn't seem like banning material. I figured it's gotta be something more... as far as I can see, all the other cards in the X-List way more tougher than poor Gondorian Captain. :P
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Is it because you can trim all fellowship cards from your draw deck to set up a monster shadow phase? Guessing
Or ... to close out the loop ... you need a permanent card that says something like .... When you play a fortification do X
Ingold also seems to set up some possible combo - provided you have a need to wound him in fellowship phase you can have an constant supply of fortifications.
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If your deck is only fortifications, you can pull out every free peoples card from your deck and have killer Shadow hands the rest of the game.
-wtk
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Ok, so Horn of Boromir...is it because it is too OP against swarm decks or is it because it can link with Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith?
Thanks
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Decipher stated it was because it circumvents the Rule of 9 and therefore overrides a essential part of the game
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Ingold also seems to set up some possible combo - provided you have a need to wound him in fellowship phase you can have an constant supply of fortifications.
I am not understanding this statement. If Ingold is in play, you can discard as many fortifications as you want. The loop with Gondorian Captain and Base of Mindolluin is that the Base adds threats to get Forts and Gondorian Captain removes the threats.
Ok, so Horn of Boromir...is it because it is too OP against swarm decks or is it because it can link with Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith?
Horn of Boromir was seen as to powerful for the cost and with Towers block a slew of new allies were introduced in the [Rohan] culture that could be easily kept alive. Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith did not particularly help.
-wtk
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I am not understanding this statement. If Ingold is in play, you can discard as many fortifications as you want. The loop with Gondorian Captain and Base of Mindolluin is that the Base adds threats to get Forts and Gondorian Captain removes the threats.
Oops - my mistake :P
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so promos to (0P61) are legal?
question, so why not make legal promos to (0P68)?
just to add 6 new companions :)
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I have found Cirdan, The Shipwright to be a strange card and somewhat OP especially towards end game when 9 events or so are sitting in the discard pile. With one exertion he overwhelms almost any minion. Do you guys think that this was just a poorly thought out card like Galadriel, LR? It's not bad enough to warrant an X-list, but still...annoying (my friend bought a Mount Doom box and suddenly played Galadriel, LR, Cirdan, The Shipwright and other set 10 cards and tossed them at me this past Spring Break).
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only 9 events? sheesh i have like 20 in my discard pile at the end of the game
and no i don't think he is that overpowered, the problem with galadriel, LR was the fact you could play all those specific events. curse their foul feet, stand against darkness, foul creation, etc and if you weren't playing that type of shadow just discard them to kill their conditions/possessions. plus there's no real cost, i mean discarding an [Elven] is not hard to do when your deck is loaded with them but exerting cirdan, any wounding deck should take care of him ala desert lord/hate.
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Desert Lord can help with Cirdan... among many other things.
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Desert Lord can help with Cirdan... among many other things.
Well desert lord on itself not that much, but equiped with a seasond leader and a nice mumak.... hmmm
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Well, Desert Lord is a good splash minion at least, and taking out two of Cirdan's vitality points makes a big difference (especially if he had exerted already).
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Just play Army of Udun with 4x hate :D
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Why wasnt Seasoned Leader ever banned?
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Why wasnt Seasoned Leader ever banned?
Why should it be banned? It is pretty balanced, overall. Sure, it sucks seeing a Desert Lord riding a Mumak with a Seasoned Leader on there, but that's one minion. There are ways to beat one single minion.
The only two conditions I have ever seen the actual game text used for was either another Seasoned Leader, or in rare cases, Bold Men and Grim (if they know what they are doing!)
-wtk
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Well I have seen a pretty neat threat adding deck that used Ithilien Wilderness. That was sick, making a minion strength +10. I love it when that happens. But banning cards that potentially form a threat, well, don't play a cardgame then...
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Well I have seen a pretty neat threat adding deck that used Ithilien Wilderness. That was sick, making a minion strength +10. I love it when that happens. But banning cards that potentially form a threat, well, don't play a cardgame then...
Don't play a cardgame at all in such cases... Cards are meant to be played and if they are abusive then they should be errated not x-listed.....
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Desert Lord can help with Cirdan... among many other things.
Well desert lord on itself not that much, but equiped with a seasond leader and a nice mumak.... hmmm
desert lord rocks! he is almost as good as shotgun enquea, no greenleaf, aragron's bow, cirdan, anyone who exerts for their special ability is toast!
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Desert Lord can help with Cirdan... among many other things.
Well desert lord on itself not that much, but equiped with a seasond leader and a nice mumak.... hmmm
desert lord rocks! he is almost as good as shotgun enquea, no greenleaf, aragron's bow, cirdan, anyone who exerts for their special ability is toast!
Don't agree with you. Sure Dl is good, but he's not that good. Greenleaf and Ab can still hurt and if there's enough healing then comps like cirdan won't feel that much.. For instance if there's a cirdan and an Elrond it might be smarter to exert Elrond, because of it's healing ability.
It's only 2 exertions with DL.. Three exertions and enduring and fierce is more scary I can tell you..
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Well, I got my playset of Desert Lord, and I'm very happy with it!
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Sure, it sucks seeing a Desert Lord riding a Mumak with a Seasoned Leader on there
What about with 4x seasoned leader on him, and Bold Men and Grim in play. Add a raider halberd aswell. Nasty stuff.
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Okay, I can understand all those other cards, but how exactly does Nasty help?
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XD
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Not the card nasty.... 'nasty stuff' as in 'this will hurt'.
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Sure, it sucks seeing a Desert Lord riding a Mumak with a Seasoned Leader on there
What about with 4x seasoned leader on him, and Bold Men and Grim in play. Add a raider halberd aswell. Nasty stuff.
I am dreaming of a full equiped Dessert Lord
With seasoned leaders mean to exert
to be enduring..
Oh what will those arrows hurt
And with a fierce making mumak
You will listen when hear your companion mourn
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And you will cry when your opponent plays Company of Archers...
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And you will cry when your opponent plays Company of Archers...
;D Maybe... maybe not ;D :hey:
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Why that? I mean, the discarding happens before the exerting, and one condition less doesn't hurt so much at all...
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Not necessarily. Let them exert until exhausted and then discard for the kill.
It is even better with maneuver exhaustion.
-wtk
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OOps, seems as I read the card wrong..
Anyway, I also like Company of Archers most as an Elven condition discarding event, but the best one still is Galadriel, recycling garbage and discarding everything!
(Btw, did I mention how I love giving other names to cards? ;))
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Not necessarily. Let them exert until exhausted and then discard for the kill.
It is even better with maneuver exhaustion.
-wtk
So if you play against elven and you weren't able to see opponent's hand then you won't exhaust :)
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Why was Horn of Boromir banned?
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Why was Horn of Boromir banned?
Horn of Boromir was seen as a way of circumventing the Rule of 9 and a way to control the twilight pool...not adding enough pool for companions when you have a ton of allies to "take one for the team" was too frustrating for Shadow players and made for boring games.
-wtk
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That makes complete sense. The Horn would "call" up what were essentially companions even if you already had 9 companions in play.
That one never clicked before. Thanks.
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But that is what the Horn of Boromir was MEANT to do! It's a good strategy, but requires LOTS of card slots to be viable and isn't really splashable.
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You are right, Kralik. That's why I never knew why it would be banned. It seems like a perfectly viable card to me.
Just look at what the Horn of Boromir was meant to do in the books. It's one of those cards that I love because the text actually fits with the title AND the story itself.
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Maybe cus' you could make Tom Bombadil a 17 strength comp? That seems kinda weird to me...
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Maybe cus' you could make Tom Bombadil a 17 strength comp? That seems kinda weird to me...
True. Which is a pity, really, because there aren't any other allies even remotely close to Tom Bom in strength. However, I believe it was banned before his time. In any case, by Movie block there are LOTS of ways to directly hurt companions outside of the skirmish phase. A constantly exerting Boromir is asking for trouble.
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Not with wound prevention, twilight denial, and another strong ally: Treebeard. Allthough especially the combination of Aragorn pool remover, and Galadriel going Dutch it was harsh. Please, someone, make me a movie Horn deck and play it once as a surprise deck against me :D I am curious.
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Forgot Beardy. Now that makes sense. :P
But note that No Stranger to the Shadows, Aragorn HttWC and Galadriel are X-ed as well. Horn of Boromir without those isn't quite as powerful. Still, it finds its place in the almighty Fellowship block. :mrgreen:
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Is there any ruling on Consorting With Wizards + Bilbo, BotB? I've been thinking of making a solo Bilbo deck...
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Nope, you can use the combo, but you're die against overwhelming or corruption cus' of Bilbo's stupid ability. And his regroup action isn't as good as many people think.
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yep Witchkingx5 is right, that combo is quite useless..
but you can maybe try with The Shire Countryside (3R113), Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom (10C112) , •A Light in His Mind (10U108) and such.
and its good in wraith deck but not for choke, but for wound prevention ;)
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Just as an idea, but it seems like some (maybe a lot) of the banned cards were banned because of an infinate loop they could create.
Why not, instead of banning a card, just state that something can not happen more than once per card unless the card specifies the number of times it can happen. With this, you would un-ban a some cards, and break the infinate loops.
And things like the flaming brand, Nazgul have enough if you play King or Movie block that I let others use it. I could see it being really strong in a FotR or TTT block, but not overpowering to the point to ban it.
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I'm not sure about the Flaming Brand. I have two real life Rohan Decks, and I must say, if they would be able to add some Flaming Brands, whis would be really overpowered.
Or imagine that: Islidur, BoH with Narsil and 5 opther artifacts and Flaming Brand would have the same base strength as the Witch-king (besides that when they would face each other, Isildur would get a nice bonus!), then combine with some Elves and TLAoEaM and you have a 17 strength Ring-Bearer.
I mean, even without the Brand, this is pretty scary, but with such Brands in all Decks, Nazzies wouldn't stand any chances at all... and they're my favorite culture... snief...
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yep Witchkingx5 is right, that combo is quite useless..
but you can maybe try with The Shire Countryside (3R113), Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom (10C112) , •A Light in His Mind (10U108) and such.
and its good in wraith deck but not for choke, but for wound prevention ;)
I disagree. I made a pretty effective Tale/Archery deck using Bilbo. It dies to mass condition removal, sure, but the twilight removal element is one of the key components to keeping opponent's minions under control.
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For those who consider opening Movie Block to all sites from sets 1-10 (format my friends and I play), what site cards should be x-listed? I can think of Ettenmoors (for enduring characters) off the bat, but are there any others??? I'd consider sticking with king block sites for balance, but I hate the idea of all these other site paths sitting around...
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Ettenmoors obvious.
Cavern Entrance isnt one of my favourites either.
Out of my head are those two.
I am unsure about a few others, namely Fangorn Forest, but that needs testing.
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Wait ... Saruman's Snows isn't banned? I've been living a lie for the better part of the past decade!
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You can see it here : http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,8148.0.html
1C331 Ettenmoors
1U338 Ford of Bruinen
1U355 Silverlode Banks
1U360 Emyn Muil
4U338 Golden Hall
4U355 Cavern Entrance
4U357 King's Room