The Last Homely House

Middle-Earth => Chamber of Mazarbul => Topic started by: menace64 on November 11, 2019, 12:00:56 AM

Title: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on November 11, 2019, 12:00:56 AM
(0) By River and Plain [Gondor]
Event • Maneuver
Exert 2 [Gondor] companions (or exert Aragorn) to discard a [Raider] possession for each time the fellowship has moved this turn.
"'So we mounted again before night had passed and went on with all the speed that our horses could endure over the plains of Lebennin.'"

This card would be a silver bullet against corsairs, but maybe not quite enough to bring them into balance. Of course, this card synergizes well with [Gondor] Wraiths, which happens to be another trouble spot in the meta...

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[1] No Heart to Abide [Wraith]
Condition
To play, spot 3 enduring characters of the same culture. Plays on an unbound companion. Limit 1 per bearer.
Bearer is strength -1 for each enduring character you spot (limit -3).
"'But defenders and foes alike gave up the battle and fled when we came, crying out that the !King of the Dead was upon them.'"

Spots enduring characters on either side of the aisle, and punishes the FP player for their over-reliance on [Gondor] Wraiths.

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[3] Sundered Doom [Isengard]
Event • Regroup
Discard 2 [Isengard] cards from hand to wound an Elf twice (unless that Elf is the Ring-bearer). The Free Peoples player may discard another Elf to prevent this.
"'And now, what ship will bear you back across so wide a sea?' he mocked. 'It will be !a grey ship, and full of ghosts.'"

I just want to hurt the [Elven] culture with this card. I know it's broken. It's just a starting-point, and I'd appreciate a few voices of reason to chime-in. These are just spit-balling cards anyhow, meant to stir the pot of conversation a bit. What other cultures/subcultures need to get checked, and what cards do you think would be effective in checking them?
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Phallen Cassidy on November 11, 2019, 01:56:01 PM
My problem with Sundered Doom is that the FP can't do anything to stop it (the same way so many Elven cards are broken, haha! Is that on purpose?), though I guess they could add in some Elf allies to take the bite away... But they're already going that route as a counter for Terrible as the Dawn in Movie, so maybe it doesn't do enough. I dunno; it seems it'd either be broken or totally ineffective. There's a cost to forcing Elven decks to run allies (even if they do have utility), but it's hard to say what impact this card would have or how much it would shape the meta. Maybe it is the hero we need.

But I hate Elves too. Decipher's attempts at silver bullet cards largely ended after Fellowship block, leaving the Free Peoples side with very broad tools (Curse Their Foul Feet) or tools that had staying power against new threats (Fearing the Worst) while the Shadow side was mostly given very narrow ones (One of You Must Do This is probably the best one, but its potency was weakened by the soft 3-culture limit. I mean, what else -- Too Great and Terrible? Terrible as the Dawn?). And it wasn't as if there wasn't any opportunity to introduce more counters. A series of minions might emulate the attack on Lothlorien, for example:

[3] Dol !Guldur Soldier [wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 8
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 4
Each Elf skirmishing this minion is strength -X, where X is the number of Elves you can spot.
"Some quote about how Lorien was getting assaulted, too."

[2] Dol !Guldur Assassin [wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 4
While you can spot 3 archers, this minion is damage +1 and cannot take wounds in the Archery phase.
Assignment: Exert this minion or remove a burden to assign it to an archer. That archer may exert to prevent this.

[1] Dol !Guldur Grunt [wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 3
Vitality: 1
Site Number: 4
While you can spot 4 Elves, the Free Peoples player may not assign a character to skirmish this minion and the Shadow player may not assign this minion to the Ring-bearer.
Each [elven] event gains this cost: "Exert a companion"

That could be a decent start to stomping out some of those Elven strategies that permeate Movie block. What else is missing?

On a slightly related note, I hate Vilya. There should've been an errata to Vilya or rule to the effect of "cards bearing tokens or other cards can't be returned to hand by an opponent." Or at least some defense.

[1] •Malicious Construct [isengard]
Condition
Machine. Plays to your support area.
Each time a Machine is about to be removed from play by an opponent, you may exert a companion for each [isengard] token on that machine.

It feels wickedly overpowered to exert for each token and way underpowered to exert for every 2 or twice for every 3. But the choice is still in the hands of the FP, especially when using targeted discarding. Machines are mostly protected by Siege Engine anyway... I dunno. Maybe it would be better to wound allies instead, or allow the Shadow player to move those tokens to another machine (in which case it couldn't be unique anymore). Or perhaps a regular ol' condition would be better:

[3] Industrial Plating [isengard]
Condition
Plays to your support area. The twilight cost of this condition is -1 for each machine you can spot.
If a machine is about to be removed from play by an opponent, spot an [isengard] token on that machine to exert a companion or wound an ally.

With 5 machines out, this can be played for free in spite of Dauntless Hunter. Note that these aren't machines, so the FP is free to take them out first without any negative repercussions. Since the effect stacks per copy it still feels strong when the only condition discard the FP has is some sweeping measure like Sleep, Caradhras. But then, don't play it? The Shadow player will have to spread tokens in what may be a sub-optimal way for this to be at its most dangerous, and he can also decide he'd rather use Siege Engine to save them than grab some exertions. This is the sort of dynamic I'd want to see: both players have to consider new and interesting constraints, but neither is a slave to them. And it kills Elrond.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on November 12, 2019, 01:25:08 PM
[3] Aim for the Trolls! [Gondor]
Event • Maneuver
Discard a Knight from play to discard a besieger. If that besieger is a troll, you may discard an engine from play.

[2] • Riding from the East [Rohan]
Condition • Support Area
For each [Rohan] mount you can spot, the twilight cost of each engine or machine is +1.

[6] Avatar of !Ilúvatar [Gandalf]
Condition • Support Area
Gandalf is strength +5.
Each minion comes into play exhausted. Skip the archery phase. At the start of the regroup phase, discard this condition.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on November 12, 2019, 06:21:59 PM
Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
My problem with Sundered Doom is that the FP can't do anything to stop it (the same way so many Elven cards are broken, haha! Is that on purpose?), though I guess they could add in some Elf allies to take the bite away... But they're already going that route as a counter for Terrible as the Dawn in Movie, so maybe it doesn't do enough. I dunno; it seems it'd either be broken or totally ineffective. There's a cost to forcing Elven decks to run allies (even if they do have utility), but it's hard to say what impact this card would have or how much it would shape the meta. Maybe it is the hero we need.

Well, the FP can put a stop to Sundered Doom by not playing Elves. :twisted: Ha!

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
But I hate Elves too. Decipher's attempts at silver bullet cards largely ended after Fellowship block, leaving the Free Peoples side with very broad tools (Curse Their Foul Feet) or tools that had staying power against new threats (Fearing the Worst) while the Shadow side was mostly given very narrow ones (One of You Must Do This is probably the best one, but its potency was weakened by the soft 3-culture limit. I mean, what else -- Too Great and Terrible? Terrible as the Dawn?). And it wasn't as if there wasn't any opportunity to introduce more counters. A series of minions might emulate the attack on Lothlorien, for example:

Hmm... more silver bullet cards, you say...

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
[3] Dol !Guldur Soldier [wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 8
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 4
Each Elf skirmishing this minion is strength -X, where X is the number of Elves you can spot.
"Some quote about how Lorien was getting assaulted, too."

[2] Dol !Guldur Assassin [wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 4
While you can spot 3 archers, this minion is damage +1 and cannot take wounds in the Archery phase.
Assignment: Exert this minion or remove a burden to assign it to an archer. That archer may exert to prevent this.

[1] Dol !Guldur Grunt [wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 3
Vitality: 1
Site Number: 4
While you can spot 4 Elves, the Free Peoples player may not assign a character to skirmish this minion and the Shadow player may not assign this minion to the Ring-bearer.
Each [elven] event gains this cost: "Exert a companion"

These are pretty great cards. Nice and flavorful too!

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
That could be a decent start to stomping out some of those Elven strategies that permeate Movie block. What else is missing?

Maybe:

[4] •!Dol Guldur Arsonist [Wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 9
Vitality: 3
Site Number: 4
The fellowship's current site loses forest and cannot gain forest.
Regroup: Exert !Dol Guldur Arsonist to make the Free Peoples player wound a companion (or wound 2 companions if you spot more Elves among companions than any other race).

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
[1] •Malicious Construct [isengard]
Condition
Machine. Plays to your support area.
Each time a Machine is about to be removed from play by an opponent, you may exert a companion for each [isengard] token on that machine.

It feels wickedly overpowered to exert for each token and way underpowered to exert for every 2 or twice for every 3. But the choice is still in the hands of the FP, especially when using targeted discarding. Machines are mostly protected by Siege Engine anyway... I dunno. Maybe it would be better to wound allies instead, or allow the Shadow player to move those tokens to another machine (in which case it couldn't be unique anymore). Or perhaps a regular ol' condition would be better:

[3] Industrial Plating [isengard]
Condition
Plays to your support area. The twilight cost of this condition is -1 for each machine you can spot.
If a machine is about to be removed from play by an opponent, spot an [isengard] token on that machine to exert a companion or wound an ally.

With 5 machines out, this can be played for free in spite of Dauntless Hunter. Note that these aren't machines, so the FP is free to take them out first without any negative repercussions. Since the effect stacks per copy it still feels strong when the only condition discard the FP has is some sweeping measure like Sleep, Caradhras. But then, don't play it? The Shadow player will have to spread tokens in what may be a sub-optimal way for this to be at its most dangerous, and he can also decide he'd rather use Siege Engine to save them than grab some exertions. This is the sort of dynamic I'd want to see: both players have to consider new and interesting constraints, but neither is a slave to them. And it kills Elrond.

What about something like this:

[1] •Malicious Constructs [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot 3 [Isengard] minions.
Response: If your [Isengard] machine is about to be discarded, remove an [Isengard] token from another [Isengard] machine to prevent that.

Dunno if that's any better; just what popped into my head.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Phallen Cassidy on November 13, 2019, 02:26:53 PM
[3] Aim for the Trolls! [Gondor]
Event • Maneuver
Discard a Knight from play to discard a besieger. If that besieger is a troll, you may discard an engine from play.

Not the intended purpose, but I would run this card in every knight deck. Discarding a companion at will? I'll take it. Definitely won't be doubling afterward, but could make your next turn what you need it to be. Or hey, run 6-7 companions and bail when Enquea comes around. Getting rid of those pesky Besiegers is nice too :P

[2] • Riding from the East [Rohan]
Condition • Support Area
For each [Rohan] mount you can spot, the twilight cost of each engine or machine is +1.

It's pretty slick how this fits nicely into both The Two Towers and Return of the King.

[6] Avatar of !Ilúvatar [Gandalf]
Condition • Support Area
Gandalf is strength +5.
Each minion comes into play exhausted. Skip the archery phase. At the start of the regroup phase, discard this condition.

I'd add something along the lines of "When the fellowship moves to site 9, discard this condition." I'm a fan, though. My first thought is to pair it with Numenor's Pride.

Hmm... more silver bullet cards, you say...

Uh-oh.

[4] •!Dol Guldur Arsonist [Wraith]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 9
Vitality: 3
Site Number: 4
The fellowship's current site loses forest and cannot gain forest.
Regroup: Exert !Dol Guldur Arsonist to make the Free Peoples player wound a companion (or wound 2 companions if you spot more Elves among companions than any other race).

Burn, baby, burn. [wraith] Orcs already have a natural synergy with wounding the RB, so the Free Peoples player will have an interesting choice on their hands.

What about something like this:

[1] •Malicious Constructs [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
To play, spot 3 [Isengard] minions.
Response: If your [Isengard] machine is about to be discarded, remove an [Isengard] token from another [Isengard] machine to prevent that.

Dunno if that's any better; just what popped into my head.

It's doing the job of Siege Engine for far less, but it's also unique and has a pretty stern spot requirement. And it's not a machine so it can't be saved, itself... Interesting card. Potentially unintended consequence is that you could use this to save one of your machines from being discarded by its own text (especially harrowing with Weapons of Isengard or Scaling Ladder). I'd change it to say "about to be removed from play" to nullify Vilya.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on November 13, 2019, 02:36:48 PM
Re: Aim for the Trolls!
Good point about the free ability to discard a companion, potentially dodging Shotgun Enquea and other nastiness. The obvious answer is to make it an archery action rather than maneuver.

Riding from the East was rather inspired, was it not?

Regarding the other cards here, Dol Guldur Assassin is my favorite, because I can see him sniping [Elven] allies (as rare as they are in Movie Block). I don't love minions (or characters) that make sites gain terrain keywords, but how about this:

[3] Into the Bramble [Gandalf]
Condition • Support Area
While you can spot 5 Ents, the current site gains forest.
Each minion not bearing a possession is strength -1. Each minion bearing a possession is strength +1.

Don't know that this card needs to exist, but when five or more Ents gather in Yvanna's name, it's a forest to me!
-wtk
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on November 15, 2019, 12:34:05 AM
Regarding my take on Malicious Constructs allowing a Shadow player to save their own machines: yeah I totally hadn't considered that. My inclination is to add "...discarded by a Free Peoples card..." but I'm not totally sure that I've got a problem with the Shadow player getting to recycle their own machines. Hmm...

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Quote from: ket_the_jet
[3] Into the Bramble [Gandalf]
Condition • Support Area
While you can spot 5 Ents, the current site gains forest.
Each minion not bearing a possession is strength -1. Each minion bearing a possession is strength +1.

Don't forget about Huorn! "...spot 5 Ents and/or Trees..."

I like the second line of text when the card is unique, and I'm curiously-uncertain about it as non-unique. I like the flavor of the card since it relates to both the FP player and the SH player, regardless of the sort of deck the latter is running.

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Here's a silver-bullet card, one for each Shadow culture that doesn't already have one. Each of the original silver-bullet events were Maneuver and at (0) cost, spotting a single minion to snipe a unique character. The FP player then has an option to make, saving said character by committing to a negative alternative which always involves the number 2 somehow.

(0) Beset Both East and West [Dunland]
Event
Maneuver: Spot a [Dunland] Man to return Eomer to the Free Peoples player's hand. The Free Peoples player may discard 2 mounts to prevent this.
"'Indeed in this riding north I went without the King's leave, for in my absence his house is left with little guard.'"

Originally I had this as an [Isengard] card using "Spot an [Isengard] Man" to bounce Eomer, since the effect feels very Grima-esque. I ultimately gave the card to [Dunland], for little better reason than Dunland lacking another sensible target for a silver-bullet card.

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(0) Make Him Crawl [Gollum]
Event
Maneuver: Spot Gollum (or Sméagol) to exhaust Sam. The Free Peoples player may add 2 threats to prevent this.
"To his simple mind ordinary hunger, the desire to eat hobbits, had seemed the chief danger in Gollum. He realized now that it was not so: Gollum was feeling the terrible call of the Ring."

I added "(or Sméagol)" at the last second. I'm glad I did. On paper, Sam is the weakest character to target with a silver-bullet, so I tried to keep the drawback effect similarly under-powered when compared to the other bullets.

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(0) War Will Make Corpses of Us All [Raider]
Event
Maneuver: Spot a [Raider] minion to discard Faramir. The Free Peoples player may add [6] to prevent this.
"'For the Enemy increases and we decrease. We are a failing people, a springless autumn.'"

Adding [6] feels slightly uninspired when writing within [Raider] but I went with it anyways since it ties into the overall flavor of the card quite nicely.

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(I forgot about Terrible as the Dawn when I wrote this card, so [Sauron] gets a second silver bullet. Meh. If any culture deserves to have 2, it's [Sauron].)

(0) Ages That Were Gone [Sauron]
Event
Maneuver: Spot a [Sauron] minion to place an Elf on the bottom of the Free Peoples player's draw deck. The Free Peoples player may exert 2 of his or her unique characters to prevent this.
"...grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands."

Soooo this one doesn't hate on a specific Free Peoples character... [Elven] has too many worthwhile targets to choose from. That being said, I wanted to ensure that this card didn't outright kill any Free Peoples character while also providing the Shadow player a tool for targeting any Elf for removal. Putting the Elf on the bottom of the deck prevents the FP player from employing any discard-pile shenanigans. Note that the drawback is VERY open-ended, allowing for allies and non-Elves to do the exerting. Seems fair, given how wide of a net this silver-nuke casts.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on November 17, 2019, 03:20:51 PM
Silver bullets are cool and all, but having so many different obnoxious companions disrupting opponent's decks in so many different ways makes them little more than fancy cards. So I'd at least broaden their targets a bit, for instance...

- Make Him Crawl might say "Spot Gollum (or Sméagol) to exert a Ring-bound companion (or exhaust Sam)."
- Beset Both East and West: "Spot a [Dunland] Man to return a non-unique [Rohan] Man (or Eomer)...", so can target also Elite Rider.
- War Will Make Corpses of Us All: "to discard a Knight (or Faramir)." Or even "Spot a [Raider] minion and a [Gondor] Man to make the Free Peoples player choose "to discard Faramir or add [4]", so it gets an effect even without Faramir at all.


But I believe the meta is distorted more due to permanent cards piling ugly OP combos than due to the effect of specific OP characters like Eowyn LoI. Look at Knights for instance: even with 3 or 4x generic Knight of Gondor on the board you can defeat a Balrog by putting recyclable conditions on him! (BTW, those fortifications should work only at certain stretches of the sitepath like Hobbit Intuition / Stealth do, and do something much milder like "heal a [Gondor] companion" or say "draw a card" outside of them.)

So the counter should be put on permanent cards, I believe. Counter either the effects (special abilities and triggered effects), or the card itself. Which might be approached in a "get-outta-my-way" kind of surprise events, like this one for [Isengard] and [Dunland] decks:


[1] Something Strange At Work [Isengard]
Event • Response
Spell.
If the special ability of a non- [Gandalf] card is used, spot Saruman or 2 [Isengard] conditions to cancel it (and return that card to its owner's hand if is not a character).
"'Yet I am weary... There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us...'"

Don't step in the way of an Istar! (Unless you're an Istar too.) So Eowyn wants to stab your expensive Uruk Vanguard to death, or Greenleaf is about to shoot your Lurtz? Try again, girl! Aragorn RotN wants to block all your surplus of barefoot hillmen? Well, he might be falling a bit short on that. But the effect is greater against tools like Vilya, Gondor Bow / fortifications, Aragorn's Machine Gun, Preparations, Ring of Guile, Sapling... which get Vilya'd to hand besides cancelling their effect.


Surprise events to disrupt lame always-on-board predictable effects. Gollum has Final Strike to do that, but being a support area card its effect can be predicted (or discarded), so it's not the same. Each Shadow culture might have one for each mastermind: the Balrog, Sauron, the Witch King, Gollum, even Gothmog. Here is one for the Witch:


[2] This Is My Hour! [Wraith]
Event • Shadow or Skirmish
Spot the Witch-King (or 2 Nazgul) to remove all game text from a Free Peoples card (except card type and subtype) until the next assignment phase. Any companion with a twilight cost of 4 or more (or Merry) may exert twice to prevent this.
"'Do you not know Death when you see it?'"

You can stop Sam cold from taking the Ring from a dead Frodo. Or freeze Greenleaf, Cirdan, Garrison of Osgiliath, Merry FtS... or remove annoying skills like Eomer TMoR's or Glimpse of Fate. And only Gandalf, Aragorn, Treebeard or a power of that kind can try to stop you.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on November 17, 2019, 04:17:23 PM
I was merely sticking to the pre-described formula of how silver bullets functioned in the past, but DH I love everything about your input. Something Strange At Work is hands-down a more-efficient use of card space than just an [Isengard] card going after a unique companion. If I were to alter anything about SSAW it would be "...spot Saruman or 2 [Isengard] conditions borne by Free Peoples characters..." just for the flavor despite it taking some of the 'Surprise!' out of the card. Honestly I think your card looks great as-is, and it'd be interesting to see what sorts of tense moments it induces during play.

Saruman as a minion has always felt a little too predictable, since typically he's WYSIWYG. A beefy ability-cancelling event is right up his alley.

This Is My Hour! feels more like a [Wraith] card than most [Wraith] cards. :gp: Although I'd squee-with-glee to see a built-in clause for unbound hobbits getting around the event somehow, but, again, that's almost entirely a flavor-thought and the card itself is something I would want to use.

(0) Devouring Desire [Gollum]
Event • Response
Search.
If the Ring-bearer is about to put on The One Ring, wound Gollum twice to prevent that and remove all game text from The One Ring until the start of the regroup phase.
"Gollum and Frodo were locked together. Gollum was tearing at his master, trying to get at the chain and the Ring."

Originally I wrote this just as a "prevent that action" card, but going that route leaves most versions of The One Ring free to activate on the FP's next action, making the event generally useless. So I beefed up the wording a bit (taking another lead from TIMH) and worded the card to outright-nullify the Ring's ability to be worn, or any other action printed on the card. Yeah that sounds evil enough now! :twisted:
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on November 18, 2019, 01:36:00 AM
I like Devouring Desire a lot! It's evil indeed: if the Ringbearer is in dire need to convert wounds into burdens or to pump himself, and there is no other resource available (Nice Imitation, Boromir SoD, Sam) to keep doing so, game is over! With Archery Shadows can disrupt the usual Isildur's Bane / SAWTC counter, also during a time of the turn when Gollum usually has full vitality to pay the high cost. :twisted:

Can be worded also like RTIM ("the One Ring's game text does not apply"). If so, it wouldn't necessarily prevent the Ring from being worn, which would keep things like The Twilight World or Uruk Spy working still.


Something Strange At Work is taken from the Uruk trackers part of the story, that's true, but is meant to portray Saruman's willpower punching the 3 Hunters hard in the distance, and not the [Isengard] trackers themselves. The same will was bringing Caradhras down much before. So "spot 2 [Isengard] conditions" is meant to show Saruman working for his plans but not necessarily present in the scene. Those "strong-willed bosses" events must be not too restrictive to play.

Agree totally about Saruman. He was built as a "discard at the end of the turn" condition, not as a real minion. There are no real pumps or nasty tricks for him, or cards to fetch him. His Staff is too expensive and weak (moreover for a 2-cards minion) and should have appeared at Set 3. Saruman's Ambition should pump any [isengard] minion... Still, as a condition-minion is really aggressive, so that should have been nerfed a bit to allow the tricks and tools to happen more a la Gollum. Post-Mount Doom versions are better, moreover with Throne of Isengard, but the new cultures are a total blunder so it's still insufficient as a fix (only Of Many Colours and the Throne help the core [Isengard] cards).


This Is My Hour! can include Merry as the only non- [4] challenger to the Witch King, if some letters are cut off, or the whole lore text. Still, TIMH is about the Witch's duel with Gandalf, not about Eowyn... but portrays his attitude towards Eowyn well too... Alright, Merry is now included!
     "Any companion with a twilight cost of 4 or more (or Merry) may exert twice to prevent this."


Finished the one for Sauron:

[2] Ever Watchful [Sauron]
Event • Response
Search.
If the triggered action of a Free Peoples card in play is used, spot 3 [Sauron] cards to cancel it. If that card is a character, exert him or her; if is not, discard it.
"And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep."

So this blocks AND discards Shadowplay / [Rohan] mounts when exerting your minion, or Dwarven Axe / Eowyn's Sword when hurting your deck/minion, or Narya when removing a burden. Destroys initiative losing conditions. Also, blocks AND exerts Aragorn CoG / Elrond HtGG when trying to heal. Dwarven Bracers / Sapling / HotLA is trying to save a FP tank? Watch him/her die anyways!

Works with "each time", "when" and "at the start/end" effects, as well as Response Special Abilities. All on permanent cards. Response Events are "triggered actions" too, but events are never "in play" (they go to "the void" and later to discard); that wording excludes them on purpose, so this event doesn't reduce the protagonism of other events. Followers Aid costs are "at the start" triggered actions too, so this provides follower counter for the later sets.


I'm intrigued about what can you (or Phallen, or Ket) do with Gothmog's event. And the Balrog's.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on November 18, 2019, 11:45:14 AM
Quote from: Durin's Heir
Something Strange At Work is taken from the Uruk trackers part of the story, that's true, but is meant to portray Saruman's willpower punching the 3 Hunters hard in the distance, and not the [Isengard] trackers themselves. The same will was bringing Caradhras down much before. So "spot 2 [Isengard] conditions" is meant to show Saruman working for his plans but not necessarily present in the scene. Those "strong-willed bosses" events must be not too restrictive to play.

Agree totally about Saruman. He was built as a "discard at the end of the turn" condition, not as a real minion. There are no real pumps or nasty tricks for him, or cards to fetch him. His Staff is too expensive and weak (moreover for a 2-cards minion) and should have appeared at Set 3. Saruman's Ambition should pump any [isengard] minion... Still, as a condition-minion is really aggressive, so that should have been nerfed a bit to allow the tricks and tools to happen more a la Gollum. Post-Mount Doom versions are better, moreover with Throne of Isengard, but the new cultures are a total blunder so it's still insufficient as a fix (only Of Many Colours and the Throne help the core [Isengard] cards).

"Flavor Talk" - a Card Game Design Podcast coming to an audio platform near you! (I'd listen for sure :lol:) I like your description of Saruman as more of a condition than any other card type; I've not thought of him in that way before and I wouldn't be surprised if that led to some ideas down the road.

Quote from: Durin's Heir
[2] Ever Watchful [Sauron]
Event • Response
Search.
If the triggered action of a Free Peoples card in play is used, spot 3 [Sauron] cards to cancel it. If that card is a character, exert him or her; if is not, discard it.
"And suddenly he felt the Eye. There was an eye in the Dark Tower that did not sleep."

Ouch! That is perhaps one of the broadest nets I've seen and it feels right at home in [Sauron]. It could be seen as a NPE by many FP players due to its versatility at cancelling things. I could also see such a card becoming a condition.

Quote from: Durin's Heir
I'm intrigued about what can you (or Phallen, or Ket) do with Gothmog's event. And the Balrog's.

Well as soon as you said 'Gothmog' I was thinking about his nebulous identification in the book, how he was mentioned only the once as just some lieutenant present at the Siege.  I certainly didn't end up with an event :mrgreen:

[6] •Gothmog, Siege-lieutenant [Wraith]
Minion
Strength: 11
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 5
Fierce. When you play Gothmog, name Man, Nazgûl, or Orc. Gothmog gains that race until the end of the turn.
Each minion of Gothmog's race gains besieger.
Response: If this card is in your hand when your Nazgûl is killed during a skirmish, play this card from your hand for free.
"...but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray..."

This is a weird card for sure. I haven't put much thought into what cards Gothmog might interact with.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on December 09, 2019, 09:47:27 AM
[14] • The Balrog, Risen from Shadow [Moria]
Minion
Strength: 17
Vitality: 5
Site Number: 4
Fierce. Damage +1.
Spot a wizard to make the Balrog's twilight cost -4.

(0) Grief [Moria]
Event • Maneuver
Discard the Balrog and X minions to wound X companions, or a Wizard companion X times.

I feel like this could be devastating...so break it down for me.
-wtk
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on December 13, 2019, 04:02:18 PM
Risen from Shadow looks great, pretty straightforward! I love the idea of having a fierce, non underground-bound Balrog in Movie Block, that enhances and re-enables the [Moria] strategies that lost too much when FOTR sitepath was discarded. For wording, I'd change it to "If you can spot a Wizard, the Balrog's twilight cost is -4." Is it meant to count Saruman too? If not, should specify Wizard companion, or [Gandalf] Wizard (filmwise, Saruman wanted the Company to pass through Moria so Gandalf had to face a proper match, but then he was in service to Sauron; bookwise, he was a traitor to both sides and thus wanted all Orcs not under his own command to remain as far as possible from the Ring).

Perhaps might include "[Dwarven] artifact" along with Wizards, don't you think? ;)


Grief seems very interesting. Needs the usual "(except the Ring-bearer)" text. And, I think, a built-in counter too, expensive and grievous like "The Free Peoples player may add X burdens to prevent this". Or 3 fixed burdens. With that considered, it's a pretty neat grind/beatdown card that removes annoying defenders for a late game swarm. :up:

You inspired me to write a Balrog event of my own... he must be (along with Denethor) the most underdeveloped character in the whole game.

(0) Ancient Might [Moria]
Event • Response
Spell.
If The Balrog is about to be discarded, prevent him from being discarded until the end of the turn. Any [Gandalf] Wizard may wound himself twice to prevent this.
"'Over the bridge!' cried Gandalf, recalling his strength. 'Fly! This is a foe beyond any of you...'"

(Most Balrog related events/conditions - like Dark Fire or Power and Terror - should be [Moria] spells.)

So the fellowship doubles to FOTR site 6, and your Balrog is going to bite the dust? Or you have 12 twilight available and Durin's Bane in hand, but the fellowship passed Moria time ago (perhaps a movie or two)? No worries! This event brings the fierce FOTR Block Balrogs back into the game, and keeps any Balrog there if A Path Appointed, Rohirrim Army, Sent Back, Narrow Escape, OOTHA try to get rid of him. What do you think?

-------

"Flavor Talk" - a Card Game Design Podcast coming to an audio platform near you! (I'd listen for sure :lol:) I like your description of Saruman as more of a condition than any other card type; I've not thought of him in that way before and I wouldn't be surprised if that led to some ideas down the road.
Think about Bound By Rage and Keeper of Isengard: both add/remove tokens to prevent wounds. Mix in some "fierce for all" condition (Legions of Morgul) and you got KoI. While other influential minions risk their necks (like Advance Regular or Hillman Horde), he sits comfortably in the background like a support area condition... except that he's immune to condition hate. So he's magnificent as a support card, but awful if anything as a minion. The Staff brings him to the fray, but adding 2 strength (instead of 4 or 5) to an 8 str elder is missing the mark by miles.

Ouch! That is perhaps one of the broadest nets I've seen and it feels right at home in [Sauron]. It could be seen as a NPE by many FP players due to its versatility at cancelling things. I could also see such a card becoming a condition.
Ever Watchful just counters what SSaW doesn't (except events). And both counter response abilities. While it's very punitive and broad, is very costly too... can in theory counter and punish Narya and Aragorn CoG, but only because those add the twilight to pay the [Sauron] event, and only if you can spot 3 [Sauron] cards (with no minions at that stage of the turn).


[6] •Gothmog, Siege-lieutenant [Wraith]
Minion
Strength: 11
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 5
Fierce. When you play Gothmog, name Man, Nazgûl, or Orc. Gothmog gains that race until the end of the turn.
Each minion of Gothmog's race gains besieger.
Response: If this card is in your hand when your Nazgûl is killed during a skirmish, play this card from your hand for free.
"...but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray..."
Siege-lieutenant is weird indeed, but very cool card! And really accurate with the book's depiciton! :lol: The effect on "each minion of Gothmog's race" is a bit bland, I think "fierce and strength +1" would be much better, since he rallies the dispersed evil armies back to the fight (and fierce means, well, more fight!); also, the siege was already broken. The response skill is great, bravo! I'd give him +1 vitality and -1 site number, and reword him in a clearer way:

[6] •Gothmog, Siege-lieutenant [Wraith]
Minion
Strength: 11
Vitality: 3
Site Number: 4
Fierce. (unnecessary)
When you play Gothmog, name Man, Nazgûl, or Orc. Gothmog gains that race until the end of the turn.
Each minion of Gothmog's race is fierce and strength +1.
Response: If a Nazgûl is about to be killed in a skirmish, play Gothmog from your hand for free.
"...but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray..."

"A Nazgûl is about to be killed" prevents you from replaying him if the killed Nazgul was... himself.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on December 17, 2019, 10:11:07 AM
Grief seems very interesting. Needs the usual "(except the Ring-bearer)" text. And, I think, a built-in counter too, expensive and grievous like "The Free Peoples player may add X burdens to prevent this". Or 3 fixed burdens. With that considered, it's a pretty neat grind/beatdown card that removes annoying defenders for a late game swarm. :up:

Why include the "except the ring-bearer" stuff? It isn't like Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation is showing up in this fictional format. If anything, this is just The Trees Are Strong, but in the maneuver phase. I kind of like a new tool for [Isengard] Orcs.

Why not make "Ancient Might" something like this:
If the Balrog is about to be discarded, spot a Wizard to prevent this. The free peoples player may discard that Wizard discard the Balrog.

A. This addresses the Saruman point from before. If you want to be a smart-#$&*@! and make Saruman the wizard to spot, the Free Peoples player can discard him (similar, functionally, to the free peoples player exerting Gollum with Follow Smeagol).
B. The wording might be a little messy, but if you want the Balrog to disappear, a wizard needs to be sacrificed. At least he isn't going to the dead pile.
-wtk
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on December 17, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
Why include the "except the ring-bearer" stuff? It isn't like Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation is showing up in this fictional format. If anything, this is just The Trees Are Strong, but in the maneuver phase. I kind of like a new tool for [Isengard] Orcs.
Because you worded it like Hate: the choice of what companions are wounded is in the Shadow player's hands. Otherwise would say "to make the Free Peoples player wound X companions (or a Wizard companion X times)." Besides, the Trees Are Strong gives the FP player 2 phases to try to reduce the number of [Isengard] Orcs available (though doesn't need a big Balrog to be discarded along with the Orcs).

Why not make "Ancient Might" something like this:
If the Balrog is about to be discarded, spot a Wizard to prevent this. The free peoples player may discard that Wizard to discard the Balrog.
That's interesting lorewise, but the main purpose of Ancient Might is to free the FOTR block Balrogs from being restricted to underground sites only. (The wording needs to be continuous, "until the end of the turn," to counter a continuous effect, "discard The Balrog if not underground.") Thus, to allow players to build whole Shadow decks around those versions, not only in FOTR sitepath but in King sites too (where Terror of Flame and Shadow fights once, those versions fight twice). And you just cannot do so by relying on what your opponent will throw at you.

Think about Uruk Vanguard, Easterling Captain, Castamir, Olog-hai of Mordor, Siege Troop... those overwhelming behemoths became cheaper and cheaper, and don't get discarded outside specific site keywords. You can either build a deck around Troll of Cirith Gorgor, or simply splash him in [Sauron] decks. A strength 17, fierce & dmg+1 Balrog isn't so perilous in Movie Block as he was before, so he should have those options too. It's a 2-cards combo anyway.

Finally, a Balrog shouldn't have the same treatment as a mere Troll or bunch of Orcs. He shouldn't be discardable by piling ranger fortifications on him and dropping What Are They. Or by Don't Follow the Lights. Only Wizards should have the might to discard him without a direct skirmish.


I made another card to center Shadow decks on the Balrog, but Gollum-style this time:

(0) Wisps of Dark Smoke [Moria]
Condition • Support Area
Spell. The Balrog's twilight cost is -2.
Shadow: Take The Balrog or a [Moria] spell from your draw deck or discard pile into your hand. Remove a burden or discard this condition.
"...a great fissure had opened. Out of it a fierce red light came..."

Since all Balrog events and artifacts are 2-cards combos (Final Cry is even 3-cards!), he needs some help to fetch and setup. Burdens can be gathered via Must Do Without Hope (or a lucky Goblin Spear). The cost reduction allows him to lead [Moria] Swarm or Beatdown groups.


And this one to help the Whip (and Final Cry):

[1] Whined and Cracked [Moria]
Event • Skirmish
Spell.
Spot the Whip of Many Thongs (or play it from your draw deck or discard pile) to make a [Moria] minion strength +2 (and heal it if is The Balrog).
"With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed..."

And a counterpart for Gandalf:

[2] White Stab [Gandalf]
Event • Skirmish
Spell.
Spot Glamdring (or play it from your draw deck) to choose one: make Gandalf strength +3, wound a minion skirmishing Gandalf, or discard a Shadow weapon.
"There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back and its sword flew up in molten fragments."

Weapon resourcefulness for those 2 Maiar. And finally a much needed pump event for The Balrog.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 04, 2020, 03:50:34 PM
DH, would you like to colab on a small set of cards? I'm thinking 25 cards max. I see the expansion sets that Star Trek's Continuing Committee puts out and I'm itching to do something similar for LotR. What if we focused on a specific block, and a specific theme, either recycling "dead" cards or just coming up with new stuff as we've always done? I dunno; my vision here is hazy and transient, but there's certainly a creative opening if we want to fill it.

I've been thinking about it all month and I can't get [Sauron] Wolves out of my head as a subculture worth its own small expansion. Granted we might not want to start there but yeah, that's where my head is.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 08, 2020, 07:04:53 PM
(I did read your post the same night you posted it, but been writing a long proper answer and every day thought "today will be finished," LOL.)

It'd be an honour to work with you! You set the goals and limits as you wish, or change them anytime, I follow. But I believe 25 cards might be simply too scarce, Reflections was twice as large and was far from complete.

About "dead cards", I think it probably won't be as worthy most of the times as writing totally new cards... I mean, Goblin Spearman is useless, but instead of changing him I'd rather create a new minion that works by himself and gives the Spearman usefulness as a byproduct. Like this example:

[3] •Goblin Blademaster [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 8  Vitality 3  Site 4
Lurker.
Each [Moria] Orc bearing a hand weapon is strength +2.


I've been thinking about it all month and I can't get [Sauron] Wolves out of my head as a subculture worth its own small expansion. Granted we might not want to start there but yeah, that's where my head is.
Do you mean the "Listen, Hound of Sauron!" wolves at Eregion? Well, 5 years ago I made a primitive effort with Azog's warg minions for the Hobbit Draft Game. (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9063.msg89057.html#msg89057) It got rejected (we had more important things to do with the scarce Shadow card slots), but kept working the idea. During the last 4 days have been adapting them to fit the [Sauron] culture, and finally got it finished. It's a 5 or 6 cards independent subculture, but also meant to synergize with preexistent [Sauron] and [Isengard] subcultures if wanted to.

I see [Sauron] Wolves as cheap, fierce, tracker Warg minions. As an intelligent society of doggies, should divide their labors and act as a whole. So I separated them into "frontliners," "dense packs" and "tha Leadah." Being [Sauron] trackers, they have access to UTWE and Seeking It Always, which will become very interesting.

The frontliners are cheap scouts and fighters with some degree of independence. The packs are meant to support other Wargs and be supported by them, a "!strength in numbers" approach. The Leader gathers them together and directs the assault. 3 minion cards, 1 for each. Plus 3 support cards (1 warg mount, 1 condition and 1 event).


[2] Mountain Wolf [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 7  Vitality: 2  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce.
When you play this minion, you may spot another [Sauron] card and X wounds on a companion to add [X].
Skirmish: Discard this minion to make a Warg (or a fierce Orc) strength +3.
"'How the wind howls! It is howling with wolf-voices."

A tired companion will slow down the whole Fellowship, so this scout exploits wounds on companions for twilight (UTWE will help a lot). The Skirmish skill makes it jump from one fight to another (even if didn't finish his own), portraying group support and a feral attack from all flanks (and takes the place of a pump card). By pumping "Wargs or fierce Orcs," can help [Isengard] Warg-riders aswell.


[3] Hunting Wolf Pack [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 6  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce.
Each Warg (or fierce Orc) is strength +2.
For each wound on a character skirmishing this minion, it is strength +1.
"In the dead of the night many shining eyes were seen peering over the brow of the hill. Some advanced almost to the ring of stones."

You get stronger by joining the Mob. The more copies, the stronger they'll be (like the previous, [Isengard] Warg-riders are included). For themselves only, they exploit wounds too but for strength, like a wolf smelling the blood on its prey.


[5] •Hound of Sauron, Captain of the Pack [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 9  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Tracker. Damage +1. Fierce.
Each fierce Orc or [Sauron] tracker is strength +2 and twilight cost -1.
Shadow: Discard a [Sauron] card from hand to play a tracker, mount or search card from your discard pile.
"Without warning a storm of howls broke out..."

The Pack Leader makes Wargs and fierce Orcs (and classic [Sauron] Orc trackers) cheaper and stronger, and helps to muster a host of them from discard pile. Can also recover discarded copies of UTWE or Seeking It Always, or mounts for [Isengard] warg-riders. Also, it's a strength 11 fierce, dmg+1 beast on its own.



Those are the main cards. Now, the support cards:

[3] Tracking Warg [Sauron]
Strength +3  Vitality +1
Possession • Mount
Tracker. Bearer must be an Orc with a twilight cost of 4 or less.
Bearer is fierce and a tracker.
When you play this mount, you may exert bearer twice to discard a stealth condition or a classless possession.
"Even magic rings are not much use against wolves..."

Can make "any Orc that costs less than 5" join the Wolf pack (from Goblin Runner to Tower Assassin). Also, can give fierce and vitality+1 to Orc Hunters, or to a Troll's Keyward wielding a Moria Axe. Being a tracker possession, Hound of Sauron makes it cost -1 (while bearer gets the strength +2).

The discard skill is meant to ditch Fearing the Worst (the nemesis of tracker decks). Also, can discard "classless possessions"... Athelas, Bill the Pony, pipeweed, Lembas, Thror's Map... you know, the kind of things you forget about when running from a Rottweiler. Can also get rid of ATfNBS, Escape, Horn of Boromir, Catapult, RBoW and Book of Mazarbul.


[2] The Hunt Is Up! [Sauron]
Condition • Support Area
Search. Shadow: Discard an Orc to play a Warg or a [Sauron] mount from your draw deck.
Response: If a mounted Orc is about to be discarded, discard its mount to play a Warg minion with a twilight cost equal or lower from your discard pile for free.
"'The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!'"

This will be the backbone of the new subculture. The Shadow skill ditches any Orc to get Warg minions or [Sauron] Warg mounts from deck. So you can discard an Orc Scout to start the ball rolling with Warg minions, or discard a Goblin Runner to enhance a Goblin Scavengers or Ancient Chieftain with a Tracking Warg mount. This Shadow skill brings Wargs from draw deck, while Hound of Sauron does if from discard.

The Response skill makes a mount keep the fight when the rider gets killed. Which will work wonders with [Isengard] riders: a dead [Isengard] Warg / [Isengard] War-warg / [Sauron] Tracking Warg rider will bring Mountain Wolf for twilight + a pump, or a Hunting Wolf Pack for a strength boost to the remaining riders. A dead Sharku's Warg rider can be turned into a Hound of Sauron.

Of course, the Shadow skill can discard a mounted Orc to also trigger the Response skill: playing a mount/minion Warg from deck AND a Warg minion from discard pile. Crazy, isn't?


[1] How The Wind Howls! [Sauron]
Event • Shadow or Skirmish
Search.
Play a Warg minion (or a mount on your Orc) from your draw deck or discard pile.
"'Even if we live to see the dawn, who now will wish to journey south by night with the wild wolves on his trail?'"

Resourcefulness, like Foul Things / Host of Thousands for [Sauron] Wargs. And for [Isengard] mounts. And during skirmish, if needed.


That's all. 5 or 6 cards (you can cut off the event if you wish) for a new subculture, which helps 2 old subcultures aswell.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 09, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: Durin's Heir
It'd be an honour to work with you! You set the goals and limits as you wish, or change them anytime, I follow. But I believe 25 cards might be simply too scarce, Reflections was twice as large and was far from complete.

What if we dedicated ~25 cards to each site along the Fellowship-block adventure path as an experiment? That'd give us 200+ cards overall but "released" in small chunks. [Shire] / [Gandalf] focus for Site 1[F]; [Wraith] / !Bree for Site 2[F]; [Elven] / Multicultural for 3[F]... etc. It might be easier for us to get our heads around refreshing the block if we narrowed our focus to one site's themes at a time.

Quote from: Durin's Heir
About "dead cards", I think it probably won't be as worthy most of the times as writing totally new cards... I mean, Goblin Spearman is useless, but instead of changing him I'd rather create a new minion that works by himself and gives the Spearman usefulness as a byproduct. Like this example:

[3] •Goblin Blademaster [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 8  Vitality 3  Site 4
Lurker.
Each [Moria] Orc bearing a hand weapon is strength +2.

I'm all for this. What do you think if recycling old card images to help sell the concept of "virtualizing" old cards? I can't get TLHH's image-insertion to work anymore (too used to reddit's interface), but here's a quick image-flipping of Goblin Spearman: https://i.imgur.com/oK0UZdx.png. With proper tinkering text can be duped and rewritten to fit whatever new effects get slapped on old cards. I figure this would be easier than finding new pictures of goblins from a 19 year old movie. (Oh #$&*@! FotR is 19 years old.) This would enable us to "use" old cards without actually using them, while communicating that they're related somehow.

Quote from: Durin's Heir
[Sauron] wolves

That's precisely what I have in mind. I'm out of time for now (got play practice to get to!) but I'll return later tonight to properly dissect your Wargs.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 15, 2020, 01:53:19 AM
That's precisely what I have in mind. I'm out of time for now (got play practice to get to!) but I'll return later tonight to properly dissect your Wargs.
I want my Wargs dissected, cooked and seasoned, on my plate NOW!

What if we dedicated ~25 cards to each site along the Fellowship-block adventure path as an experiment? That'd give us 200+ cards overall but "released" in small chunks. [Shire] / [Gandalf] focus for Site 1[F]; [Wraith] / !Bree for Site 2[F]; [Elven] / Multicultural for 3[F]... etc. It might be easier for us to get our heads around refreshing the block if we narrowed our focus to one site's themes at a time.
Nice idea. But 25 cards will probably be too many. Unless those include erratas. While Goblin Spearman can be enhanced by new cards, I see others as perfect candidates for erratas: Saruman's Ambition (pump any [Isengard] minion instead of just Uruks), Saruman's Staff (str +3 instead, skill at Shadow instead of Maneuver), NSttS (unique, "to play, exert bearer"), Let Them Come (stack minions killed by Dwarves, to discard them for benefits)...

Some sites will require far less cards than others: 7 and 8 are just minionless Anduin, while 4 is Eregion, Caradhras, Moria Lake, Western Gate and Stairs, Moria Halls AND Mazarbul! So we'll need some flexibility there. Site 5 might include a bit more of the Balrog and Gandalf's duel, taking cards/images from Towers block (and we might create a thing or two for Dwarves, like a [Dwarven] Endless Stair).

Also, some things didn't happen on Frodo's path, like Saruman's treason (chronologically in Site 1 and 2), the Library of Minas Tirith, and the Prologue (Making of Rings, Last Alliance, Gladden Fields, Gollum checking social media, and Bilbo's finding). Isildur's Failure corresponds there too. So there might be need of a 10th release of "Prologue and Loose Ends" if we don't manage to include them otherwise.

What do you think if recycling old card images to help sell the concept of "virtualizing" old cards? I can't get TLHH's image-insertion to work anymore (too used to reddit's interface), but here's a quick image-flipping of Goblin Spearman: https://i.imgur.com/oK0UZdx.png... I figure this would be easier than finding new pictures of goblins from a 19 year old movie. (Oh #$&*@! FotR is 19 years old.) This would enable us to "use" old cards without actually using them, while communicating that they're related somehow.
I think that's brilliant, flipped images will make them look different and equal at the same time (like another version from an alternate world). :up: (To insert images here, write [!img ]image's url[/img ]; remove the space after each "img").

But that won't work for things that weren't present at all in the FotR film, like [Sauron] Wargs. So we'll need to adapt pics from either the Two Towers or from The Hobbit films. Now, most Towers wargs will probably require some Soviet airbrush skill to make the rider disappear from the picture, so I suggest limiting ourselves to The Hobbit alone.

With proper tinkering text can be duped and rewritten to fit whatever new effects get slapped on old cards.
To make the Hobbit Draft Game, Enola got the font and size used by Decipher, you can ask him (his account is "-Enola-", not "Enola" which is older and he discarded).


Now, if we are going to fit the text into a Decipher format card, we'll need each card to have a maximum of 7 total gametext + loretext lines (and each line having a maximum length according to that specific font and size). Enola and I did so for the Hobbit, and it became my standard for DCs, but most cards posted here in Chamber of Mazarbul would need a big chainsaw to try and fit inside a Decipher card. Yours included, I fear (Gothmog, Siege-lieutenant needs 9 for gametext and 2 for lore!).

The method I use is very simple: take a gametext line by Decipher which saturates the room (Mighty Steed's first line), do the same for loretext (Saruman's Staff), and those will be the references in a text editor (I use MS Notepad!) for the maximum available. So a card with 5 gametext lines and 2 lore ones would have this maximum room:

If Gandalf is not assigned to a skirmish,
If Gandalf is not assigned to a skirmish,
If Gandalf is not assigned to a skirmish,
If Gandalf is not assigned to a skirmish,
If Gandalf is not assigned to a skirmish,
“ His hand clutched his heavy black staff like a claw. ”
“ His hand clutched his heavy black staff like a claw. ”

Bolded words use a bit more space, which is almost insignificant in "Shadow:" but not so in "Assignment:". That's all, it worked well when Enola turned my card ideas into graphic cards.

You can, of course, use a different font and smaller size than Decipher. But will feel equally different.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 15, 2020, 03:31:12 PM
Wargburgers, coming up!

Before I get into it though I'd like to raise the question: !Warg, or Wolf? What precisely differentiates either creature is murky and uncertain, and perhaps it's more like Orc/Goblin in that there isn't actually a difference between Wolf and !Warg.  :-k

Quote from: DH
I see [Sauron] Wolves as cheap, fierce, tracker Warg minions. As an intelligent society of doggies, should divide their labors and act as a whole. So I separated them into "frontliners," "dense packs" and "tha Leadah." Being [Sauron] trackers, they have access to UTWE and Seeking It Always, which will become very interesting.  The frontliners are cheap scouts and fighters with some degree of independence. The packs are meant to support other Wargs and be supported by them, a "!strength in numbers" approach. The Leader gathers them together and directs the assault. 3 minion cards, 1 for each. Plus 3 support cards (1 warg mount, 1 condition and 1 event).

Adding a splash of [Sauron] trackers to fellowship block would indeed be very interesting and should be thoroughly pursued (...or tracked?).

Quote from: DH
[2] Mountain Wolf [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 7  Vitality: 2  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce.
When you play this minion, you may spot another [Sauron] card and X wounds on a companion to add [X].
Skirmish: Discard this minion to make a Warg (or a fierce Orc) strength +3.
"'How the wind howls! It is howling with wolf-voices."

A tired companion will slow down the whole Fellowship, so this scout exploits wounds on companions for twilight (UTWE will help a lot). The Skirmish skill makes it jump from one fight to another (even if didn't finish his own), portraying group support and a feral attack from all flanks (and takes the place of a pump card). By pumping "Wargs or fierce Orcs," can help [Isengard] Warg-riders aswell.

Are there any [Isengard] cards that specifically target or pull Warg possessions? I don't believe so, but if there are any I'd second my own motion (:suspect:) to make these [Sauron] trackers Wolves to help keep the subcultures separate. 2% issue though, in either case!

As for Mountain Wolf itself, I really like your initial brief on how these trackers "feel": cheap and fierce; I'd also like to add simple as a third descriptor, especially on the minions. I understand why the Skirmish ability is there but I think the play effect is likely sufficient, and ditching the skirmish bit could give you something like:

[2]Mountain Wolf [Sauron]
Minion • Warg/Wolf/Demon/Monster/Targeted Maiar Hallucination
Strength: 8  Vitality: 2  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce.
When you play this minion, you may spot another [Sauron] card and X wounds on a companion to add [X].
"'How the wind howls! It is howling with wolf-voices."

I almost want to take a page out of [Dunland]'s textbook and drop these guys' vitality to 1 in favor of even greater strength curves. So a [2]/9/1/4 stat split on Mountain Wolf - easily mowed down by archery fire or other pre-skirmish wounding, but dangerous once you let it get into biting range. Removing the skirmish ability definitely makes the card worse, but since the idea here is to make the pack operate as a unit more than as individuals, I think we should favor "weaker" minions with synergy and one or two decent support cards.

Quote from: DH
[3] Hunting Wolf Pack [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 6  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce.
Each Warg (or fierce Orc) is strength +2.
For each wound on a character skirmishing this minion, it is strength +1.
"In the dead of the night many shining eyes were seen peering over the brow of the hill. Some advanced almost to the ring of stones."

You get stronger by joining the Mob. The more copies, the stronger they'll be (like the previous, [Isengard] Warg-riders are included). For themselves only, they exploit wounds too but for strength, like a wolf smelling the blood on its prey.

Drop the fierce Orc targeting. I think the incidental synergy with pre-existing [sauron] trackers is sufficient. I love this card though - everything about it oozes wolfiness. I almost want to suggest making wound-spotting a core feature of these guys since it makes so much flippin' sense to push them in that direction.

(0) All Around Them [Sauron]
Condition
Search. To play, spot a [Sauron] Warg/Wolf/Whatever. Bearer must be a companion.
While skirmishing a [Sauron] tracker, add 1 to the number of wounds you can spot on bearer for each [Sauron] card he or she bears.
"The howling of the wolves was now all round them, sometimes nearer and sometimes further off."

I'm not sure how effective this would be outside of a subculture where wound-spotting was pushed heavily, but I like the concept! (Also, yup, Tolkien refers to these creatures as Wargs in the text so I suppose that's a firm vote for Wargs, not Wolves.)

Quote from: DH
[5] •Hound of Sauron, Captain of the Pack [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 9  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Tracker. Damage +1. Fierce.
Each fierce Orc or [Sauron] tracker is strength +2 and twilight cost -1.
Shadow: Discard a [Sauron] card from hand to play a tracker, mount or search card from your discard pile.
"Without warning a storm of howls broke out..."

The Pack Leader makes Wargs and fierce Orcs (and classic [Sauron] Orc trackers) cheaper and stronger, and helps to muster a host of them from discard pile. Can also recover discarded copies of UTWE or Seeking It Always, or mounts for [Isengard] warg-riders. Also, it's a strength 11 fierce, dmg+1 beast on its own.

Hmm...

[5] •Hound of Sauron, Captain of the Pack [Sauron]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 11  Vitality: 2  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce.
Each [Sauron] tracker is twilight cost -1.
Shadow: Discard a [Sauron] card from hand to play a [Sauron] tracker (or search card) from your discard pile.
"Without warning a storm of howls broke out..."

Losing the damage bonus and pip of vitality pushes the strength up to 11. Again, I've axed the fierce-orc component. I almost want to suggest making the shadow effect free ("Shadow: Play a [Sauron] tracker or search card from your discard pile.") in an effort to incentivize the unique minion over swarms, but maybe we could take a hint from Tol Brandir and go with something like "Shadow: Play up to 3 [Sauron] trackers and/or search cards from your discard pile; end your Shadow phase." So many options for this minion, but no matter what I agree that recursion is important - and flavorful - for this subculture to get feet under it.

Quote from: DH
[3] Tracking Warg [Sauron]
Strength +3  Vitality +1
Possession • Mount
Tracker. Bearer must be an Orc with a twilight cost of 4 or less.
Bearer is fierce and a tracker.
When you play this mount, you may exert bearer twice to discard a stealth condition or a classless possession.
"Even magic rings are not much use against wolves..."

Can make "any Orc that costs less than 5" join the Wolf pack (from Goblin Runner to Tower Assassin). Also, can give fierce and vitality+1 to Orc Hunters, or to a Troll's Keyward wielding a Moria Axe. Being a tracker possession, Hound of Sauron makes it cost -1 (while bearer gets the strength +2).

The discard skill is meant to ditch Fearing the Worst (the nemesis of tracker decks). Also, can discard "classless possessions"... Athelas, Bill the Pony, pipeweed, Lembas, Thror's Map... you know, the kind of things you forget about when running from a Rottweiler. Can also get rid of ATfNBS, Escape, Horn of Boromir, Catapult, RBoW and Book of Mazarbul.

At all costs I think we should avoid drawing mechanical comparisons between [Sauron] Warg trackers and [Isengard] Warg mounts. This card feels more like Rise of Saruman and less like Mines of Moria and that makes me feel skittish: enabling just about any Orc to bear it also introduces a host of balancing concerns, since you'd need to test the mount on every single Orc to see what breaks the game and what doesn't. It's messy, and the standout reason why I prefer [Isengard]'s Warg-rider keyword over anything the [Orc] culture ever attempted.

I'd say cut possessions from the subculture entirely. It's certainly a neat idea but it draws the focus away from what the subculture should be good at: cheapy minions with a strong preference for sniffing out bleeding companions.

Quote from: DH
[2] The Hunt Is Up! [Sauron]
Condition • Support Area
Search. Shadow: Discard an Orc to play a Warg or a [Sauron] mount from your draw deck.
Response: If a mounted Orc is about to be discarded, discard its mount to play a Warg minion with a twilight cost equal or lower from your discard pile for free.
"'The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!'"

This will be the backbone of the new subculture. The Shadow skill ditches any Orc to get Warg minions or [Sauron] Warg mounts from deck. So you can discard an Orc Scout to start the ball rolling with Warg minions, or discard a Goblin Runner to enhance a Goblin Scavengers or Ancient Chieftain with a Tracking Warg mount. This Shadow skill brings Wargs from draw deck, while Hound of Sauron does if from discard.

The Response skill makes a mount keep the fight when the rider gets killed. Which will work wonders with [Isengard] riders: a dead [Isengard] Warg / [Isengard] War-warg / [Sauron] Tracking Warg rider will bring Mountain Wolf for twilight + a pump, or a Hunting Wolf Pack for a strength boost to the remaining riders. A dead Sharku's Warg rider can be turned into a Hound of Sauron.

Of course, the Shadow skill can discard a mounted Orc to also trigger the Response skill: playing a mount/minion Warg from deck AND a Warg minion from discard pile. Crazy, isn't?

Unfortunately what I said ^ sets me against this version of the card. Moreover the game text here is just too complicated for what should be, in essence, a fairly straightforward subculture. I'm a huge fan of providing additional support to [Isengard] Warg-riders but these cards probably aren't the best place for such support.

Minimal deviation:
[2] The Hunt Is Up! [Sauron]
Condition • Support Area
Search.
Shadow:
Discard a [Sauron] Orc to play a tracker from your draw deck.
Response: If a tracker is about to be discarded, remove [1] to play a [Sauron] Warg with a twilight cost equal or lower from your discard pile for free.
"'The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!'"

I've shifted the cultural enforcement around a bit, forcing the Shadow player to already have a [Sauron] Orc in play but allowing them to pull any tracker with the discard. Now the Response ability includes a multicultural element (enabling it to splash into, say, an Ugluk deck) but its effect only pulls [Sauron] Wargs. I'm not sure if this kills the card's versatility or not; I'm just trying to skirt around the concept of [Sauron] mounts for now without completely rewriting the card. But...

Maximum deviation:
[1] The Hunt Is Up! [Sauron]
Condition • Support Area
Search.
Assignment:
Spot a companion (except the Ring-bearer) with X wounds to play X [Sauron] trackers from your draw deck. Discard this condition.
"'The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!'"

Leaning into the blood-sniffing theme established earlier. I haven't thought out how balanced this is... I just really like the concept of [Sauron] Wargs spotting wounds :lol:. Of course, this version of the card is open to all [Sauron] trackers and not exclusively Wargs.

Quote from: DH
[1] How The Wind Howls! [Sauron]
Event • Shadow or Skirmish
Search.
Play a Warg minion (or a mount on your Orc) from your draw deck or discard pile.
"'Even if we live to see the dawn, who now will wish to journey south by night with the wild wolves on his trail?'"

Resourcefulness, like Foul Things / Host of Thousands for [Sauron] Wargs. And for [Isengard] mounts. And during skirmish, if needed.

That's all. 5 or 6 cards (you can cut off the event if you wish) for a new subculture, which helps 2 old subcultures aswell.

As is - and removing the mount/Orc parenthetical - I'd say this card should be (0). Not sure how useful it would be with those changes though. I do appreciate your adherence to [Sauron] lacking pumps, so perhaps something like...

(0) How The Wind Howls! [Sauron]
Event • Shadow or Skirmish
Search.
Play a [Sauron] Warg from your draw deck or discard pile; its twilight cost is -1.
"'Even if we live to see the dawn, who now will wish to journey south by night with the wild wolves on his trail?'"

Always useful, always free, probably too easy to abuse :mrgreen:

But then this popped into my head:

[1] Snarled and Sprang [Sauron]
Event • Skirmish
Reveal your hand. Make a [Sauron] Warg strength +1 for each Shadow card revealed.
"'Fling fuel on the fire!' cried Gandalf to the hobbits. 'Draw your blades, and stand back to back!' In the leaping light, as the fresh wood blazed up, Frodo saw many grey shapes spring over the ring of stones."

Yes, it's a bit sacrilegious within [Sauron], but it comes at a cost of efficiency as most Shadow players will try to dump all their cards into play well before a skirmish phase.

---

If I accidentally skipped over anything or said something dumb, my apologies! Tonight is opening night so I won't be intellectually-available until Monday when the show is finished. In the meantime I'll be stuck thinking about wound-sniffing as a [Sauron] Warg mechanic and maybe by next week I'll have a card or two percolating along those lines. Sorry for the delay in responding - this seems to be a unifying trait among us stalwarts of TLHH lol - but time stands still here, or seems to, as it should! May the Valar watch over you.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on January 16, 2020, 03:59:57 PM
Diving back in here with a few [Raider] cards. Who doesn't love those?

[4] Variag of Khand [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 9
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Variag. Besieger.
Shadow: Exert this minion twice to make a [Raider] minion gain besieger until the start of the regroup phase.
"Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes and Variags of Khand..."



[2] Mercenary of Khand [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Variag. Besieger.
Maneuver: Discard a [Raider] condition and exert this minion to wound a companion. If you can spot a [Sauron] besieger, you may add a threat.[/b]
"The inland Sea of Rhun strengthened by men of their kinsfolk...and from their new allies in Khand."

[6] • Chieftain of Khand, Leader of Mercenaries [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 12
Vitality: 3
Site: 5
Variag. Besieger.
Skirmish: Exert this minion to stack another besieger on a site you control.

[2] Great Assault [Raider]
Event • Maneuver
Spot a [Raider] besieger and a [Sauron] besieger to reveal a card at random from your opponent's hand. You may make a minion strength +x, where x is the twilight cost of the revealed card.
"In this great assault from north and south Gondor came to near destruction..."

[4] Untamed Alliance [Raider]
Condition • Support Area
Skirmish: Discard this condition to make a minion strength +1 (or strength +2 if you have initiative) for each of the following you can spot: Corsair, Easterling, Southron, Variag.

[3] Wainrider Chariot [Raider]
Possession • Mount
Strength: +3
Bearer must be a Variag.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to discard a mount borne by a companion in this skirmish.

What do you think about some random cards for one of the most curious races?
-wtk
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 17, 2020, 02:24:17 AM
Ket, your Variags are cool. I'd change a thing here and there, but feels like a good start to a subculture that merits further developing.

Variag of Khand should exert himself once only. Mercenary of Khand is a [Raider] Orkish Lackey, so should specify either "unbound companion" or "(except the Ring-bearer)." I like a lot Chieftain of Khand's synergy with Gorgoroth Pillager, feels like something to keep developing with stacked Variags (or Variags that spot/play other stacked besiegers for benefits). :up:

Great Assault feels too risky and expensive for such reward; I'd change it to "make X minions strength +X" (limit, say 5) until regroup, so if you hit the jackpot it won't be to just overwhelm Thrarin, but to bring real havok.

Untamed Alliance is too expensive, should cost [2] considering the difficulty of maxing it out (can give +8, but most of the times will be +2 like [1] Wrath of Harad).

Wainrider Chariot feels underpowered, Iron Axe gives the same stats for - [2] (and Mumak gives fierce for - [1]). I like the [rohan] / [gondor] mount counter, I think should be able to counter any possession, this way:


[3] Wainrider Chariot [Raider]
Possession • Mount
Strength: +3
Bearer must be a Variag.
Each time bearer is assigned to skirmish a character, you may spot a possession borne by that character to make it lose it's game text (except card type and class) during that skirmish.

That way, if you fear losing the skirmish you can blank an offensive tool (a [rohan] horse, Gondor Bow or Elven Sword) to make the defeat less likely (or less costly), or blank instead a defensive one (Armor, Dwarven Bracers, Heavy Chain or Boromir's Gauntlets) if you feel like winning (or to pave the road to Red Wrath). To me, the increase in maneuverability justifies completely a cost of [3].


Your ideas are cool, but you're giving them too little power. Keep them coming!
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 19, 2020, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: ket
Diving back in here with a few [Raider] cards. Who doesn't love those?

[Raider] is always welcome.

Quote from: ket
[4] Variag of Khand [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 9
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Variag. Besieger.
Shadow: Exert this minion twice to make a [Raider] minion gain besieger until the start of the regroup phase.
"Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes and Variags of Khand..."

Besieger on [Raider] minions is a gorgeous combination. I really like the Shadow ability here - it extends besieger deeper into older minions which probably opens the ability to some abuse, but at the cost of 2 exertions that abuse feels earned.  :up:

Quote from: ket
[2] Mercenary of Khand [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 2
Site: 5
Variag. Besieger.
Maneuver: Discard a [Raider] condition and exert this minion to wound a companion. If you can spot a [Sauron] besieger, you may add a threat.[/b]
"The inland Sea of Rhun strengthened by men of their kinsfolk...and from their new allies in Khand."

Yes! Sticking cross-cultural bonuses onto [Raider] besiegers is a match made in Valinor. I would recommend limiting the companion-wounding to unbound companions though (actually I'd love to see it say "...and exert this minion to wound a War-bound companion." but that's a keyword that doesn't actually exist... yet.

Quote from: ket
[6] • Chieftain of Khand, Leader of Mercenaries [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength: 12
Vitality: 3
Site: 5
Variag. Besieger.
Skirmish: Exert this minion to stack another besieger on a site you control.

"Exert Chieftain of Khand..." since he's unique.
Another quietly multi-cultural minion. I don't actually know how [Sauron] besiegers hold up in various formats, but I can't imagine the subculture would suffer for splashing this minion, since getting those minions stacked on sites is one of the trickier aspects of any strategy.

Quote from: ket
[2] Great Assault [Raider]
Event • Maneuver
Spot a [Raider] besieger and a [Sauron] besieger to reveal a card at random from your opponent's hand. You may make a minion strength +x, where x is the twilight cost of the revealed card.
"In this great assault from north and south Gondor came to near destruction..."

Yup!

Quote from: ket
[4] Untamed Alliance [Raider]
Condition • Support Area
Skirmish: Discard this condition to make a minion strength +1 (or strength +2 if you have initiative) for each of the following you can spot: Corsair, Easterling, Southron, Variag.

I might just be a softie for [Raider] subcultures but I adore this card. It's versatile like a MF while supporting an impressive variety of Shadow builds, while simultaneously feeling like a RotK-block condition. Favorite card in your bunch.  :gp:

Quote from: ket
[3] Wainrider Chariot [Raider]
Possession • Mount
Strength: +3
Bearer must be a Variag.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to discard a mount borne by a companion in this skirmish.

Do you think this could confer fierce or damage +1? Either one feels appropriate for a chariot.

Quote from: ket
What do you think about some random cards for one of the most curious races?
-wtk

Well I enjoyed your cards so much I went digging into old posts to see if I had written anything that might be complementary to your bunch. What do you think?

[3] Wainrider Scout [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 2
Site Number 5
Variag. Besieger.
Each mount played on this minion is twilight cost -2.

[2] Chariot Shielder [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Site Number 5
Variag. Besieger.
Skirmish:
Remove [1] to transfer a possession borne by this minion to another eligible bearer.
Riding at the front of each chariot was a pair of dark-hearted shield-bearers. Their strength and courage brought other riders safely into battle.

And a monster:

[7] •Chieftain of Rhûn, Lord of the Tribes [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength 13
Vitality 4
Site Number 5
Variag. Besieger. Ambush [3].
Each time you play a [Raider] mount, draw a card.
Response: If another [Raider] Man wins a skirmish, exert Chieftain of Rhûn to play a [Raider] possession from your discard pile; it is twilight cost -2.
This lord of Men is a cunning leader, able to bend both mind and man.

(0) •From Lands of the White Sun [Raider]
Condition • Support Area
Each time your [Raider] mount is discarded, you may exert a Variag to stack that mount here.
While there are 3 cards stacked here, each Variag gains ambush [1].
Shadow:
Discard a card from hand to play a card stacked here.
"'Out of some savage land in the wide East they come...'"

[2] Tempest of Hooves [Raider]
Event • Skirmish
Make a mounted [Raider] minion strength +2 for each mounted minion you spot.
"‘…!countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before.'"

Another strength pump likely isn't necessary but I like how this event subtly encourages cross-cultural shenanigans. It's a real shame [Sauron] never got easy-access to mounts. (Wait... idea!)

(0) Beast of Burden [Sauron]
Possession • Mount
Vitality +1
To play, play an engine. Bearer must be a [Sauron] besieger.
Maneuver: Discard an engine to discard a fortification, then exert bearer or discard this possession.

I kinda flubbed the maneuver ability - my imagination extended only to the idea of the card itself: a beefy [Sauron] mount for besiegers. Totally open to text-rewrites.

Gosh I love [Raider] as a culture so much. Mixing them into besiegers is a whole bunch of fun - this whole concept would really make King-block Shadow strategies pop!
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on January 21, 2020, 08:55:27 AM
Well I enjoyed your cards so much I went digging into old posts to see if I had written anything that might be complementary to your bunch. What do you think?

[3] Wainrider Scout [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength 8
Vitality 2
Site Number 5
Variag. Besieger.
Each mount played on this minion is twilight cost -2.
Seems more than reasonable.

Quote from: menace
[2] Chariot Shielder [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Site Number 5
Variag. Besieger.
Skirmish:
Remove [1] to transfer a possession borne by this minion to another eligible bearer.
Riding at the front of each chariot was a pair of dark-hearted shield-bearers. Their strength and courage brought other riders safely into battle.
Is there any reason this guy is three vitality? I know there is precedent for larger minions (usually troops) having three vitality, but this guy is effectively equal to Boromir or Faramir. I feel like that's where the 2-vitality standard for [Raider] Men came into play, but I could be wrong.

Quote from: menace
[7] •Chieftain of Rhûn, Lord of the Tribes [Raider]
Minion • Man
Strength 13
Vitality 4
Site Number 5
Variag. Besieger. Ambush [3].
Each time you play a [Raider] mount, draw a card.
Response: If another [Raider] Man wins a skirmish, exert Chieftain of Rhûn to play a [Raider] possession from your discard pile; it is twilight cost -2.
This lord of Men is a cunning leader, able to bend both mind and man.
This guy is definitely a monster. Culturally, I would point out a Variag would specifically be from Khand per the two or three references in Tolkien's writings, whereas an Easterling would be from Rhûn.

Quote from: menace
(0) •From Lands of the White Sun [Raider]
Condition • Support Area
Each time your [Raider] mount is discarded, you may exert a Variag to stack that mount here.
While there are 3 cards stacked here, each Variag gains ambush [1].
Shadow:
Discard a card from hand to play a card stacked here.
"'Out of some savage land in the wide East they come...'"
This card is great with Variag-Southron cross-pollination, and perhaps explains the 3-vitality Variag minion I asked about above.

Quote from: menace
[2] Tempest of Hooves [Raider]
Event • Skirmish
Make a mounted [Raider] minion strength +2 for each mounted minion you spot.
"‘…!countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before.'"
Interesting pump, perhaps. I haven't gotten to the end, so I am wondering where this kind of maxes out? I can't see more than two mounts in a given phase, let alone then needing the two extra twilight.

Quote
(0) Beast of Burden [Sauron]
Possession • Mount
Vitality +1
To play, play an engine. Bearer must be a [Sauron] besieger.
Maneuver: Discard an engine to discard a fortification, then exert bearer or discard this possession.
I don't have a strong feeling on this one, probably because it feels mechanically clunky. Maybe "to play, spot two engines." I also kind of always create my cards with King Standard in mind, replacing sets 8 and beyond. I am wondering if this becomes too powerful with besieging trolls?

I had the idea for something when I started this post, but it largely evaporated. Either way, thanks for the kind words and would love to see more from Tolkien's least-talked about subculture!
-wtk
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 24, 2020, 12:39:36 PM
I had an idea for a proposed-errata of a particularly troublesome card:

[3] •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3
Vitality: 3
Galadriel may not be played in your starting fellowship.
Regroup: Discard an [Elven] event from hand to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go !into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"

I reckon everybody here is extremely aware of GLR's game text, but I'll describe the two changes I'm now proposing: first, denying Galadriel from inclusion in your starting fellowship. I see part of her problem as creating an NPE for Shadow decks too quickly, and played for free on top of that. Preventing her from starting the game in your fellowship also makes sense thematically. I've also taken the Fellowship phase away from her ability, limiting her still-potent ability to the Regroup phase, further pushing her usefulness later into the game - now if you want to use her effect, you've gotta draw her, play her for [3], and then keep her alive for at least one site.

I presume those who enjoy playing with busted-GLR won't like these changes at all while just about everybody else will be cool with the nerf. I do think some sort of major nerf is looooooong overdue here.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Inspire on January 24, 2020, 05:37:09 PM
I had an idea for a proposed-errata of a particularly troublesome card:

[3] •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3
Vitality: 3
Galadriel may not be played in your starting fellowship.
Regroup: Discard an [Elven] event from hand to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go !into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"

Nice idea, although I think preventing her from being played in the starting fellowship is unnecessary if you remove the twilight cost reduction. I don't foresee many players paying [3] to start her (and if they do, it would probably be a sub-optimal decision). In fact, I think removing the twilight cost reduction alone probably would have removed most complaints about her. 
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 24, 2020, 07:18:52 PM
You're probably right on the money - but what about this?

(0) •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3
Vitality: 3
Galadriel may not be played in your starting fellowship.
Regroup: Discard an [Elven] event from hand to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go !into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"

Same thing as before, except now she's always free. I'm a little attached to the idea of preventing her from starting in your fellowship for the aforementioned reasons of flavor.

A minimally-altered version would go:

[3] •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3
Vitality: 3
Fellowship or Regroup: Discard an [Elven] event from hand to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.
"'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go !into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 24, 2020, 08:37:08 PM
Besides the absurdity of being played for free, I think she discards Shadow things too effortlessly. Ditching an [Elven] event is simply too easy a task, so I'd make her exert along with the event. I know healing is not hard for Elves, but at least players would need to focus Elrond HtGG and Shadow Between on her instead of recharging Greenleaf over and over, and her vitality would put a natural limit per turn to the Shadow cards butchering.

Another thing that annoys me about her is her Hobbit-like strength status. It's just too low for an Eldar, one whose power was only below Sauron's in Middle-Earth (everyone knows I'm no Elf fanboy, it's just what Tolkien wrote: "Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but... the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself."). I'd make her gain some strength boosts so she can rival Glorfindel or Gil-galad under certain circumstances:


[3] •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3  Vitality: 3
For each [Elven] or [Gandalf] Ring (or Phial of Galadriel) you may spot, Galadriel is strength +2.
Fellowship or Regroup: Discard an [Elven] event from hand and exert Galadriel to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.
"They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."

You can start her with strength 3 along with the mighty Ordulus (not a good idea), but after 3 Elf Rings and a Phial she rises to strength 11. The discarding is now costlier but broader too (any condition/possession, FP too), to erase Held or Dwarven Heart before the drawback (but discarding extra [Elven] events for the sake of unclogging hand will backfire to your Swords or Bows).

Gave her a different lore text, always felt that Decipher were trying to portray that part of the Appendices with her skill.



Glorfindel and Cirdan also need erratas:

[4] •Glorfindel, Revealed in Wrath [Elven]
Strength: 9  Vitality: 4
Ranger.
While you can spot Aragorn or 2 Hobbits, Glorfindel's twilight cost is -2.
Skirmish: Play or discard an [Elven] event with a twilight cost of X to make Glorfindel strength +X (and you may exert a Nazgul or Balrog skirmishing him).

His cost can only be lowered when traveling along with Hobbits or Strider, which weakens pure Elf decks in the early game. The anti-Nazgul Forearmed horseshit was removed, and replaced with a more versatile pump enhancing skill (Still Needed makes him +4 instead of +2; Alliance Reforged and Secret Sentinels can be used in dire need as pumps too), as well as a wink to his predilection to clash with Ringwraiths and Balrogs. And he's a Ranger, by the way.


[4] •Cirdan, The Shipwright [Elven]
Strength: 7  Vitality: 4
Skirmish: Spot Cirdan with X vitality or more and exert him to reveal X [Elven] events from your discard pile. Make a minion he is skirmishing strength -X.

The skirmish skill remains, but now has a limit which is his current vitality (which encourages playing Narya and Aiglos on him). Also, reveals events from discard pile, so he doesn't break Decipher's own rules of not allowing your opponent to look into your discard pile's content.

Decipher lost their way when they forgot about putting limits to effects.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 24, 2020, 09:19:07 PM
Your version appeals to me mightily but it's more than a few steps-removed from the unaltered version. Each errata we impose on a card would have percussive impacts upon not only the card but the environment. I recommend small steps towards balance over radical changes, at least until the small steps have been tested. The community polls I've run over the last year or two seem to signify a desire for minor changes over sweeping changes: if tweaking a word here or a phase there brings a card into proper balance, we should strive for that over all other aims.

If we can put together a proposed-list of erratas for problematic cards while maintaining the 'spirit' of each card, we stand a greater success of being taken seriously by the entrenched orthodoxy of resistance.

That all being said, I think we're looooong overdue for some Ring-centric Freeps characters. It would be awesome to get your version of GLR into the game (along with a similarly-themed Elrond and Gandalf [and Cirdan?]). I could see an effect like "For each Free Peoples character bearing a Ring, this character is strength +1" or something making its way onto characters.

---

Another companion desperately in need of realignment is Aragorn, Heir to the White City. In his case, I recommend a one-word change:

[4] •Aragorn, Heir to the White City [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Signet: Frodo
Ranger.
Each time the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, remove [2].
"'...his hood was cast back, and his dark hair was blowing in the wind, a light was in his eyes: a king returning from exile in his own land.'”

It never felt right that he removed twilight during the fellowship-move: as a ranger, his strength should lie in the double-move, and in that case I think removing [2] is fair, or fair enough to warrant the errata. The NPE of playing against HttWC stems from his ability to prevent a Shadow player from emptying his or her hand after the first move - this slight revision removes the NPE but maintains the net-twilight-removal of the card. He'd be different - and one could argue too different - so perhaps this slight change would be preferable:

[4] •Aragorn, Heir to the White City [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Signet: Frodo
Ranger.
Each time the fellowship moves, remove [1].
"'...his hood was cast back, and his dark hair was blowing in the wind, a light was in his eyes: a king returning from exile in his own land.'”

Now he would work with every move but only ever removing [1] per site. In either errata our footprint as fixers would be small, and barely noticed by the casual player.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Inspire on January 24, 2020, 09:57:03 PM
I largely agree with menace64's thoughts above - in general, less is more when it comes to making changes. And within the context of the substantial power creep that was sets 8 - 10, I don't think overly significant changes are needed to bring GLR into line with the (inflated) meta that she operates in.

[4] •Aragorn, Heir to the White City [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Signet: Frodo
Ranger.
Each time the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, remove [2].
"'...his hood was cast back, and his dark hair was blowing in the wind, a light was in his eyes: a king returning from exile in his own land.'”

This feels perfect. I dislike twilight denial as a design concept (I think most players would generally agree that playing more cards equals more fun), but given what we're starting with I really like the balance of this one. Plus, I always felt that the designers didn't do enough to encourage the Free Peoples' player to double (or even triple) move, so making his gametext contingent upon multiple moves is a great choice.   
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 24, 2020, 10:21:31 PM
Added erratas to Cirdan and Glorfindel to my previous post.


The main problem of Aragorn, Hurried towards the Water Closet is that he lets no twilight at all most of the times... with NSttS he actually removes [3], add Sting, the Gaffer's Pipe, Bill the Pony and ATfNBS, and the NPE effect cannot be borne. If he said "spot [4] to remove [2]" it'd be much more acceptable. But that's too wordy for your standards, and I agree with them for that goal. In such case, besides R-listing NSttS, I'd choose option #1 (since cannot pile upon NSttS + Bill + ATfNBS + Gimli DotMR so easily).

(Also, most Pipes should need to "add [X]" or "add [2]", except the Gaffer's, Gimli's and perhaps Bilbo's. That way, you'd need pipeweed to remove burdens/wounds, and then again more pipeweed if you want that without adding twilight.)


About Lady Redeemed, if we're going to change only 1 thing, removing the free-at-starting part will make her too different. So I'd stick with my version of the discarding skill (making her vitality both a concern and a limit), and keep everything else as Decipher did.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 25, 2020, 12:17:25 AM
That all being said, I think we're looooong overdue for some Ring-centric Freeps characters. It would be awesome to get your version of GLR into the game (along with a similarly-themed Elrond and Gandalf [and Cirdan?]). I could see an effect like "For each Free Peoples character bearing a Ring, this character is strength +1" or something making its way onto characters.
Lots of potential here!

[4] •Gandalf, Fire that Kindles [Gandalf]
Companion • Wizard
Strength 7  Vitality 4  Frodo Signet-
For each Ring artifact you may spot, Gandalf is strength +1 (limit +5).
While you can spot 3 Rings of different cultures, Gandalf is defender +1.
"...for he was the enemy of Sauron, opposing the fire that devours..."

Meant for Set 10 (if possible), a King block Frodo signet companion like Elessar Telcontar. Can be defender +1, but risking being hit by Grima CC. [Wraith] Rings boost him too (and Barahir's).


[4] •Gil-galad, Keeper of Rings [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength 9  Vitality 4
Second Age. (Whatever it might mean.)
Gil-galad may bear up to 2 Rings (and you may play Narya or Vilya on him).
Regroup: Exert Gil-galad and transfer an artifact he bears to another eligible bearer to remove a burden or free a site.
"...but the Red Ring he kept, until he gave it to Círdan..."

"You may play Narya or Vilya on him" doesn't make him an eligible bearer, so Narya cannot be transferred back to him next turn to repeat the cycle (nor Vilya if is the Set 3 version).


----


[3] •Thrór, Dwindled King [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 7  Vitality 4
While bearing a [Dwarven] Ring, Thrór is vitality +1 and damage +1.
Regroup: Spot X wounds on Thrór and transfer a Ring he bears to play X [Dwarven] cards from your draw deck. Discard Thrór.
"...now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thráin the one great treasure he still possessed..."

If used when exhausted, you'll pull 4+ cards from your deck, but Thror will die instead of just walking into the sunset.

[1] •Nár, Thrór's Companion [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 5  Vitality 3
While you can spot Thrór, each mountain or underground site is Shadow number -2.
While Thrór is in the dead pile, each Dwarf is strength +1 and damage +1.
"From Dunland, where he was then dwelling, he went north with Nár, and they crossed the Redhorn Pass and came down into Azanulbizar."

So you have a Thrór with 2 different profiles: he can be the protagonist sneaking his way towards underground and mountain sites, or pass his Ring and protagonism to his son Thráin to pull cards a la SFtF (and boost everyone if dead).

[3] •Thráin, Son of Thrór [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 8  Vitality 3
Damage +1.
While bearing a [Dwarven] Ring, Thráin is defender +1.
While Thrór is in the dead pile, each time you play a [Dwarven] card, you may draw a card or exert a minion.
"Then he stood up and said: 'This cannot be borne!'"

Thráin's full potential is unleashed only when having the urge to muster an army and avenge his father (1 Baruk Khazad = 2 wounds = goodbye Wormtongue). While wielding his father's Ring of Power.


----


[4] •Saruman, Master of Ring-lore [Isengard]
Minion • Wizard
Strength 8  Vitality 4  Site Number 3
When you play Saruman, you may play an [Isengard] artifact from your draw deck.
While bearing an artifact, Saruman is fierce and ambush [1].
Each companion bearing an artifact is strength -1 (or -2 if is a Ring).
"'He wore a ring on his finger.'"


(0) •Saruman's Ring, New Power [Isengard]
Artifact • Ring
Vitality +1
Bearer must be Saruman. He is enduring.
Skirmish: Remove [1] to exert Saruman.
Response: If Saruman is about to be discarded, return him to your hand and exert a companion.
"...for his pride believed that he could use them, or It, in defiance of any other will."
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 25, 2020, 11:43:48 PM
Quote from: DH
[4] •Gandalf, Fire that Kindles [Gandalf]
Companion • Wizard
Strength 7  Vitality 4  Frodo Signet-
For each Ring artifact you may spot, Gandalf is strength +1 (limit +5).
While you can spot 3 Rings of different cultures, Gandalf is defender +1.
"...for he was the enemy of Sauron, opposing the fire that devours..."

Meant for Set 10 (if possible), a King block Frodo signet companion like Elessar Telcontar. Can be defender +1, but risking being hit by Grima CC. [Wraith] Rings boost him too (and Barahir's).

This Gandalf is my jaaaaaaam. Feels like FotSF but cares about rings. And I like how you've written it to exclude The One Ring - I probably wouldn't have done that but I like your take so much more.

"Meant for Set 10" conjures a new thought in my brain - what do you think of our hypothetical sets releasing as "supplements" to existing sets? If Gandalf, Fire That Kindles were to become legal for play, his collector info might read "10V15", putting him in Mount Doom (and King Block) but only in formats allowing for Virtual cards. It's slick and gives any creative team the ability to insert new cards into any format without much additional headache.

Quote from: DH
[4] •Gil-galad, Keeper of Rings [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength 9  Vitality 4
Second Age. (Whatever it might mean.)
Gil-galad may bear up to 2 Rings (and you may play Narya or Vilya on him).
Regroup: Exert Gil-galad and transfer an artifact he bears to another eligible bearer to remove a burden or free a site.
"...but the Red Ring he kept, until he gave it to Círdan..."

"You may play Narya or Vilya on him" doesn't make him an eligible bearer, so Narya cannot be transferred back to him next turn to repeat the cycle (nor Vilya if is the Set 3 version).

Decipher had such a good track record for differentiating characters of various eras among all of their card games that it physically hurts me how we never got the same treatment in LotR. I'm okay with mixing Ages, but I also want a way of divorcing Second from Third, or even Fourth, and adding a keyword or icon signifying a character's Age only gives card designers more room to play in.

Maybe: Gil-galad may bear Narya or Vilya, even if he already bears a Ring. Also, "free" should be "liberate".

I love this Gil-galad more than the two we got.

----

Quote from: DH
[3] •Thrór, Dwindled King [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 7  Vitality 4
While bearing a [Dwarven] Ring, Thrór is vitality +1 and damage +1.
Regroup: Spot X wounds on Thrór and transfer a Ring he bears to play X [Dwarven] cards from your draw deck. Discard Thrór.
"...now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thráin the one great treasure he still possessed..."

If used when exhausted, you'll pull 4+ cards from your deck, but Thror will die instead of just walking into the sunset.

And we'd have access to images we could use, too! YES!

I think Thror, being dwindled, should have subpar stats. Maybe 7/2? Then he would emerge average once you slap a Ring on him, giving the Freeps player that much added incentive to do so. This would also limit his baseline utility (with a Ring) to 2 or 3 [Dwarven] cards, which is already a lot, especially since the ultimate cost is merely discarding him. If you feel his stats should stay at 7/4, I'd suggest changing the ability to "Kill Thror" to make it a true once-off.

Quote from: DH
[1] •Nár, Thrór's Companion [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 5  Vitality 3
While you can spot Thrór, each mountain or underground site is Shadow number -2.
While Thrór is in the dead pile, each Dwarf is strength +1 and damage +1.
"From Dunland, where he was then dwelling, he went north with Nár, and they crossed the Redhorn Pass and came down into Azanulbizar."

So you have a Thrór with 2 different profiles: he can be the protagonist sneaking his way towards underground and mountain sites, or pass his Ring and protagonism to his son Thráin to pull cards a la SFtF (and boost everyone if dead).

I think I might like Nar with only the second line, but that might be dependent on what formats you envision Nar to appear in. In expanded he's probably busted.

Quote from: DH
[3] •Thráin, Son of Thrór [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 8  Vitality 3
Damage +1.
While bearing a [Dwarven] Ring, Thráin is defender +1.
While Thrór is in the dead pile, each time you play a [Dwarven] card, you may draw a card or exert a minion.
"Then he stood up and said: 'This cannot be borne!'"

Thráin's full potential is unleashed only when having the urge to muster an army and avenge his father (1 Baruk Khazad = 2 wounds = goodbye Wormtongue). While wielding his father's Ring of Power.

Or was it Thrain we saw in The Hobbit? I honestly don't remember.
I think Thrain is too much for [3]. Something's gotta go. 8/3 is fun and Damage+1 is intuitive. While I really like the flavor of needing certain companions to get killed, it'd be too easy for a Freeps player to make it happen, and this might lead to NPE abuse - dead companions is supposed to be a bad thing :lol:
Perhaps a compromise: "While Thrain bears a [Dwarven] Ring, he is defender +1 for each Dwarf in the dead pile (limit +2)." or something.
In any case, I do recommend dropping the minion-exerting bit. Dwarves don't need help in that department.

Quote from: DH
[4] •Saruman, Master of Ring-lore [Isengard]
Minion • Wizard
Strength 8  Vitality 4  Site Number 3
When you play Saruman, you may play an [Isengard] artifact from your draw deck.
While bearing an artifact, Saruman is fierce and ambush [1].
Each companion bearing an artifact is strength -1 (or -2 if is a Ring).
"'He wore a ring on his finger.'"

I'm all turned around on Saruman cards now. (Thanks :lol:) An [Isengard] artifact engine makes me happy but now you've converted me into the "Saruman as a condition" camp and I'm having trouble agreeing with turning him into any sort of skirmisher. It does feel wrong.

Quote from: DH
(0) •Saruman's Ring, New Power [Isengard]
Artifact • Ring
Vitality +1
Bearer must be Saruman. He is enduring.
Skirmish: Remove [1] to exert Saruman.
Response: If Saruman is about to be discarded, return him to your hand and exert a companion.
"...for his pride believed that he could use them, or It, in defiance of any other will."

Saruman's Ring should have a twilight cost > 0 to set it apart from all the others. His is imperfect, a trial, a copy.
Vitality +1 is cool, but enduring wouldn't fit into the format I see this card most-likely appearing in (Fellowship block). Here's an impulsive idea:
"Shadow: Replace the first sentence of Saruman's game text with the first sentence of another [Isengard] minion's game text until the regroup phase. End your shadow phase."
I have nooooo idea how/if that would break the game, but it's similar to Saruman's Staff and would certainly lead to some interesting Saruman-fighters.

Quote from: DH
The main problem of Aragorn, Hurried towards the Water Closet is that he lets no twilight at all most of the times... with NSttS he actually removes [3], add Sting, the Gaffer's Pipe, Bill the Pony and ATfNBS, and the NPE effect cannot be borne. If he said "spot [4] to remove [2]" it'd be much more acceptable. But that's too wordy for your standards, and I agree with them for that goal. In such case, besides R-listing NSttS, I'd choose option #1 (since cannot pile upon NSttS + Bill + ATfNBS + Gimli DotMR so easily).

Actually, I think "Spot [4] to remove [2]" might be a perfect solution. My "replace one word" concept is just a starting point in my brain. Decipher issued a few erratas just as you suggest doing with HttWC, and yours might be the simplest way to ensure the presence of twilight going into a Shadow phase without altering the card overmuch. I'd certainly like to see this tested!

Quote from: DH
(Also, most Pipes should need to "add [X]" or "add [2]", except the Gaffer's, Gimli's and perhaps Bilbo's. That way, you'd need pipeweed to remove burdens/wounds, and then again more pipeweed if you want that without adding twilight.)

Until pipeweed decks start wrecking formats I'd say leave them be.

Quote from: DH
About Lady Redeemed, if we're going to change only 1 thing, removing the free-at-starting part will make her too different. So I'd stick with my version of the discarding skill (making her vitality both a concern and a limit), and keep everything else as Decipher did.

Any version that brought her card into balance would be the best move. I'm down for any option.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on January 26, 2020, 11:02:54 PM
Here's where it gets tricky for me. Engage Rant Mode.

I !Hate Hunter. As a keyword it served only to introduce further power creep into the game, as not a single Hunter keyword seemed influenced by twilight cost, merely being tacked on to artificially inflate a character's strength. Set 15 was when I functionally retired from the game for this reason alone. A lot of feedback I've been getting ultimately revolves around the creep from 15+, and honestly - seriously - I can't for the life of me think of a simple solution that doesn't involve A) issuing erratum to dozens of cards or B) rewriting the hunter keyword.

[2] Namárië [Elven]
Condition • Support Area
When you play this, add an [Elven] token here for each hunter you can spot.
Maneuver: Discard this or remove a token from here and spot an [Elven] hunter to discard a condition.
"We shall not meet again, Elessar."

That's the card, as-is. Namarie is pushed in any format allowing for hunter characters, further pedestaling hunters as the top of the power tier. My initial - and simplest - recommendation is to toss a unique dot onto it. And perhaps that's all that would be necessary to bring Namarie into balance.

But the card still bothers me. I can't do anything about the lack of Site6[F] allies in The Hunters block, which issues a Flavor Rating of F to Namarie since it should be targeting those allies instead of hunters. I dunno; this card is a mess of sloppy and undertested design.

I just hate Hunter. There's no way around it for me. Elven Guardian is a stupid card and so is Orophin, Silvan Elf. Every hunter is overpowered by design and that makes every card in 15-onward a serious problem in expanded formats. (It's why I won't play Expanded. I want to enjoy the entire card pool but the broken nature of the post-Bloodlines environment is woefully apparent.)

If every Hunter character is problematic, might we change the Hunter keyword?

Hunter. (While skirmishing a non-hunter character, this character wins tied skirmishes.)

That's a hot-take, and a bad one. Minions already win skirmish-ties, and there are (and should be!) plenty of Hunter Minions.

Hunter X. (If this character wins a skirmish against a non-hunter character, shuffle X [culture] cards from your discard pile into your draw deck.)

This feels a little better since we can keep the scalar element of the keyword... but it's totally different now, uncoupled from flat strength bonuses. I'm not keen on advocating radical changes but Hunter is just so mind-numbingly stupid that I can't figure any other solution here but to alter the keyword itself.

Argh. All of this barely scratches the surface of the most-problematic cards in the game. Followers are pretty awful too, guilty of their own unfair share of NPEs. But now I'm all frustrated from thinking about Hunter this long and I just want a hug.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: ket_the_jet on January 28, 2020, 09:48:33 AM
Why do we need to play with Second Age characters anyways? Elendil has been long dead--there is no reason to have him traveling the path to Mount Doom with Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer and his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson, Aragorn, Ellesar Telcontar.
-wtk
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on January 28, 2020, 10:55:49 AM
I think Second Age characters should be playable without penalty as long as there is no (unique) FP Third Age character also in play (or dead pile). Elendil and his sons, the Dwarven Lords, Gil-galad, agree that they shouldn't take the protagonism of the late Third Age. So as far as Isildur or Galadriel (or a new ARB Elrond) carries the Ring instead of Smeagol or Frodo, they should be playable.

Third Age should be an implicit keyword in absence of Second Age, just like Unbound is in absence of Ring-bound. We know some characters were part of but trascended the Second Age: the Eldar (Galadriel, Elrond, Cirdan, Gildor Inglorion and all the [Elven] councilors; Glorfindel, who was sent back with the Istari), the Wizards (in Tolkien's latest revision, the Istari were sent in the middle Second Age), Bombadil and Goldberry, the Ents, the Ringwraiths, Mouth of Sauron, Watcher in the Water, the Balrog, Shelob, and Sauron himself. (And the Great Goblin, an Orc chieftain who survived the Fall of Gondolin just to die to Gondolin's king's sword many millennia later!) Those I would separate with an implicit new keyword: Ageless. All versions of those characters would implicitly have such keyword (just like all versions of Frodo and Sam are Ring-bound). You can have Ageless characters in play/dead pile without blocking/affecting Second Age ones. (Some benefits might even target only Ageless characters.)



But since Reflections itself is a big What-if, why should they be completely excluded instead of just punished? If we are going to become fussy, Movie Block decks should NOT be able to pack Boromir or The Balrog in first place ("wait... weren't you dead already?"). Between King book and Fellowship book there are just months of difference instead of three thousands years, I know, so it's no big deal. But we know that some mortals managed to survive many centuries longer (Smeagol, who wasn't even senile), or even millennia like the Mouth of Sauron (who was still a mortal Numenorean Man, that extended his life via black sorcery) or the Nazgul (who became immortal but lifeless). Elves weren't mortal (by age), so Gil-galad might have survived Sauron's first downfall, though scarred and diminished... (what if?)

All in all, I think (non-Ageless) Second Age characters should be always playable, but if a single unique FP Third Age character hits play, dead pile or discard pile, all Second Agers should be punished with -3 strength and -2 resistance. Or "strength -X, where X is that character's printed vitality" = Durin III and Gil-galad -4 str, Elendil -5 str, Isildur and Anarion -3 str. Isildur RB would still be playable with unique Knights, but crazed, weakened and, well, "lean and withered." Gollumized. Or completely sound with non-unique soldiers, along with his father and brother (and Ageless Elf allies).


That's to keep What-ifs rolling. Feels a bit like Star Wars, were too many characters fell into the abyss in one film/book, just to be cliff-hanging (or cloned) actually in a subsequent one. But in this case wouldn't be without a severe penalty.


EDIT: Added Watcher in the Water to the list of Ageless characters.
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on February 06, 2020, 06:06:17 PM
I'm okay with mixing Ages, but I also want a way of divorcing Second from Third, or even Fourth, and adding a keyword or icon signifying a character's Age only gives card designers more room to play in.
What about this: if a player goes full Second Age, why not declare it by having The One Ring rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise (with the title and stat bonuses below the Ring-bearer)? It'd be simple and easy to recognize. If you do so, you can play no 3A FP unique character; otherwise you lose immediately (illegal deck). If you don't (One Ring attached normally), 2A companions are str -3 and resistance -2 (or any penalty the community finds proper for Gollumized 2A survivors). It'd be simple.

I also believe that playing Second Age should impact not only your FP side, but also a bit your opponent's Shadow one: in previous ages, Balrogs, Maiar and such Ageless things were more common, so each Ageless minion should cost -2 or so.


Actually, I think "Spot [4] to remove [2]" might be a perfect solution. My "replace one word" concept is just a starting point in my brain. Decipher issued a few erratas just as you suggest doing with HttWC, and yours might be the simplest way to ensure the presence of twilight going into a Shadow phase without altering the card overmuch. I'd certainly like to see this tested!
Hmmm, been rethinking this approach and I believe that spotting [4] won't happen too often in FOTR block (too much twilight remotion already). So players might then prefer to replace him with another Aragorn that can trigger at will, which is not what we're looking for. Therefore, a slightly more versatile version would be better: "each time the fellowship moves, spot [2] to remove [1] (or spot [4] to remove [2])." In any case wouldn't erase all the twilight, removing the NPE factor.


Until pipeweed decks start wrecking formats I'd say leave them be.
Pipeweed decks do too much for too little. They can pack a sanctuary or more + fresh Sam SoH to be used at any site... add vitality dependant OP skills (Greenleaf, Gandalf's Staff, Aragorn's Bow) and becomes really abusive. If they had a limit and/or an additional cost (like "spot X pipes and add [X]" for burden/wound remotion), there'd be a drawback. Burnt tobacco can be both smelt and seen, it's not as stealthy as Decipher depicted! 

Enola realized that basing FP strategies on too much staying power cards destroyed the fun of the game, and so we made the Hobbit Game with not a single FP condition at all (instead, events and followers-with-considerable-costs took their role).


On a related subject, Gimli's Pipe should do something by itself. I like the heavy smoker flavor of the skill, but having another skill like "Spot X pipes and discard a pipeweed possession to draw X cards" would put it in a similar level as the rest of the pipes (play Old Toby, spot 2 pipes and discard it to draw 3 cards, like Delving). Unlike the other pipes, would have a limit by the Rule of 4.


I !Hate Hunter...
Hunter... ugh, enough said! >:( Awful keyword, maimed the previous sets beyond measure...

Here's my try to redefine the Hunter keyword: "At the start of the Assignment Phase, each player sums the total value of Hunter of his or her characters. The Free Peoples player compares his or her number with the one of the Shadow player with the highest value; of them, the player with the highest value may reveal X cards at random from an opponent's hand, or look at the top X cards of any player's draw deck, where X is the difference between those values."

Not strength anymore, but information! The player with more total Hunter will be able to discover cards in opponent's hand that might hinder his/her efforts, or learn if a desired character or trick is soon to arrive for an opponent, or even for oneself. Seeking, tracking and surprising your enemy is a better way of portraying intelligent skills than brute force, I believe.

Ring of Doom then would need to be errata'd to be put on during Maneuver (and probably, give +1 str and only hunter 2).


Still, Namarie won't be fixed by such change. That card, in my opinion, should require to remove 2 tokens per use like Traveler's Homestead or Gladden Homestead (and tokens only, not discarding itself, to thwart the cycle with Gil-galad HKotN). Besides being unique (again, like all Set 13 Homesteads).
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Phallen Cassidy on February 07, 2020, 05:42:57 PM
Pipeweed decks do too much for too little. They can pack a sanctuary or more + fresh Sam SoH to be used at any site... add vitality dependant OP skills (Greenleaf, Gandalf's Staff, Aragorn's Bow) and becomes really abusive. If they had a limit and/or an additional cost (like "spot X pipes and add [X]" for burden/wound remotion), there'd be a drawback. Burnt tobacco can be both smelt and seen, it's not as stealthy as Decipher depicted! 

You're looking at the benefit of Pipeweed decks, but not the cost. Even just looking at Fellowship Block, Pipeweed decks are slow to set up, subject to bad draws, and generally either don't skirmish well, don't choke, or don't handle swarm. They are capable of doing anything, but not of doing everything. I don't mind these types of decks at all: powerhouses that take a while to build up. Sort of the opposite of choke decks, which are strongest in the first 6 sites and struggle towards the end. After Fellowship Block the deck almost falls off completely, a testament to it's lack of power. I agree it loses some potency with Grima keeping tabs on the number of cards and cultures, but I'm somewhat surprised so few people play them in Towers/King Standard. Movie has plenty of possession hate, so that makes sense.

Here's my try to redefine the Hunter keyword: "At the start of the Assignment Phase, each player sums the total value of Hunter of his or her characters. The Free Peoples player compares his or her number with the one of the Shadow player with the highest value; of them, the player with the highest value may reveal X cards at random from an opponent's hand, or look at the top X cards of any player's draw deck, where X is the difference between those values."

Not strength anymore, but information! The player with more total Hunter will be able to discover cards in opponent's hand that might hinder his/her efforts, or learn if a desired character or trick is soon to arrive for an opponent, or even for oneself. Seeking, tracking and surprising your enemy is a better way of portraying intelligent skills than brute force, I believe.

Ring of Doom then would need to be errata'd to be put on during Maneuver (and probably, give +1 str and only hunter 2).

You'll also need to errata Run Until Found and For Death and Glory. I really like the direction, though it's hard to imagine the impact. It seems that this would favor companions since they don't need to skirmish and stay on the table, but there's a bit of a natural contradiction since you wouldn't want to invest heavily in the keyword and wouldn't get much benefit from having a Hunter total of just 1 or 2. Madril decks might benefit most?
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on April 17, 2020, 12:07:39 PM
The reminder text for Hunter is longer than a text box allows. Too long. (https://imgur.com/a/8NyFvXE)

-----

I was thinking about a small series of [Gondor] cards fleshing out Dol Amroth as a subculture with the ultimate aim of adding a solid strategy to the culture for combating corsairs. Already representative of what a Dol Amroth strategy might look like, we have two cards to analyze.

Quote from: Decipher
[3] •Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 7
Vitality: 3
Knight. To play, spot a knight.
Each time !Imrahil wins a skirmish, you may exert 2 minions.
"...he was of high blood, and his folk also, tall men and proud with sea-grey eyes."
8R17

and

Quote from: Decipher
[2] Knight of Dol Amroth [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Knight.
Each time this companion wins a skirmish, you may wound a minion he is skirmishing.
"'Amroth !for Gondor!' they cried."
8C39

Things that jump out at me: neither character has a signet, they both depend on already having at least one knight in play, and they deal extra damage for winning skirmishes. I'm going to rebrand this last observation as "they reap rewards for winning skirmishes", but there's a perfect card slot for repeating the pre-established theme:

Quote from: menace64
[2] Grey Steed [Gondor]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be a [Gondor] knight.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert a minion.
"...for foremost on the field rode the swan-knights of Dol Amroth with their Prince and his blue banner at their head."
3V? (12U49)

Restricted to knights, and grants bearer the "Dol Amroth" effect of doing something productive for winning a skirmish. Feels right at home on a mount possession.

-----

But this doesn't get us to battling corsairs. Let's look at another soldier in the Dol Amroth ranks:

Quote from: menace64
[2] Dol Amroth Soldier [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Knight.
Each time this companion wins a skirmish, you may remove a culture token from a Shadow card.
"... and behind them seven hundreds of men at arms, tall as lords, grey-eyed, dark-haired, singing as they came."
3V? (5U42)

No signet, needs a knight, and gets a reward just for winning a skirmish. Dol Amroth Soldier isn't useful every time, but when he's doing his job he's going to be doing it well.

-----

And now we're at the point where my thoughts began on this subject: the ships of Dol Amroth. I couldn't in good conscience attempt a pass at this subculture without putting the means of their thwarting the Corsairs into a card frame.

Quote from: menace64
[2] Ship of the Silver Swan [Gondor]
Possession • Support Area
To play, spot 3 [Gondor] knights. When you play this possession, you may add a [Gondor] token here.
Each time any number of culture tokens are removed from a Shadow card, you may add a [Gondor] token here.
Regroup: Remove [1] for each [Gondor] token here. Discard this possession.
3V? (10R8 [there's not a good picture for this])

I've kept the description in the title to "Ship" because I don't know nothin' bout no ships. If you've got a more colorful word you feel should go there, have at it.
I upped the requirement to 3 knights for this ship (1 !for Gondor, 1 for Dol Amroth, and 1 for the ship itself) and when it comes down it gets itself a shiny [Gondor] token. This ship's "each time" effect triggers whenever a Shadow possession spends a culture token or loses a culture token, providing a self-inflating counterweight to the core of the corsair strategy (not to mention picking up a potent response to besiegers and berserkers).

-----

But it gets worse! I needed to write a card representing their home. For the region I went with a condition written in the same vein as Citadel of Minas Tirith:

Quote from: menace64
[2] Great Fief of Belfalas [Gondor]
Condition • Support Area
While you can spot 3 [Gondor] knights, you may remove a culture token from a Shadow card at the end of each turn during which no companion or ally lost a skirmish.
‘Where in Middle-earth are we?’ said Gimli; and !Elladan answered: ‘We have descended from the uprising of the Morthond, the long chill river that flows at last to the sea that washes the walls of Dol Amroth.'"
3V? (15U69)

-----

And for the city I went with a site:

Quote from: menace64
Site 4[K] Dol Amroth [5]
Dwelling. River. If you can spot a [Gondor] knight, the Free Peoples player's cards may not be discarded from play by Shadow players.
------->
3V? (18U136)

Obviously nothing yet actually addresses Corsair Marauder's ability to eat possessions, so the site itself seems a logical place to start.

-----

But that isn't quite enough of a knightly net to make Dol Amroth work...

Quote from: menace64
[2] Shining Mail [Gondor]
Possession • !Armor
Vitality +1
Bearer must be a [Gondor] knight without a signet.
While you can spot 2 or fewer threats, your cards may not be discarded from play by the actions of minions.
"For he and his knights still held themselves like lords in whom the race of Númenor ran true."
3V? (18R47)

"without a signet" was added at the last minute, the goal being to further restrict which companions have access to the vitality boost, and for one last little flavor push. As for the card-protection effect, I think I've worded it correctly, and if I did then it outright prevents corsairs from using your own cards as a fuel source... as long as you keep your threat count under tight control.

-----

Closing it out, a strength pump.

Quote from: menace64
[1] Gilded Banners [Gondor]
Event • Skirmish
Make a [Gondor] knight strength +1 for each [Gondor] card with a [Gondor] token on it (limit +4).
"...bearing his token of the Ship and the Silver Swan..."
3V? (13U61)

----------

So yeah. There are card images available to make virtual cards work, in the hypothetical instance where a batch of cards were set to rotate into some sort of test format...
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on April 17, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
The reminder text for Hunter is longer than a text box allows. Too long. (https://imgur.com/a/8NyFvXE)
Hmm, nope, it'd actually be like this: "Hunter 3. (Add 3 to the minion Hunter total.)" That's like Goblin Marksman, whose reminder text doesn't explain the whole archery procedure.

-----

In regards to your Dol Amroth knights, I like a lot the new token-centric [Gondor] subculture. Bravo!

Still, I'd change a couple of things:

1. Dol Amroth Soldier, and all non-unique Swan-knights, shouldn't need to "spot a knight" to enter the game. They should be a separate subculture than Alcarin's fortification knights, and forcing to spot a non-Amroth knight dilutes the focus. Only unique Amroth knights should need so, like Imrahil or a Dol Amroth Cavalry.

2. "Shadow possession" should be "Shadow card." That'd make the new token knights counter -and grow against- any token Shadow deck, but moderately since still won't be too easy for a Dol Amroth Soldier to defeat Uruks and deplete Down to the Last Child or [Isengard] machines. Bound By Rage, Arrow From the South, Rank and File, Grond HotU, Larder, all should find a greater opposition in !fearless Numenoreans than in, say, grim rangers.

-----

I got a couple of cards for the theme:

[1] The Lay of Nimrodel [Gondor]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. To play, spot 2 [Gondor] knights.
Each time a knight wins a skirmish, you may remove a threat (limit once per site).
"Men that saw them whispered saying: 'Belike the old tales speak well; there is Elvish blood in the veins of that folk, for the people of Nimrodel dwelt in that land once long ago.'"

Shadowplay trigger/limit approach. Amroth knights keeping the morale up. And...


[3] •Imrahil, Captain of the Swan-knights [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 7  Vitality 3
Knight. To play, spot a [Gondor] knight.
While you have initiative, each mounted [Gondor] Man is strength +1 and damage +1.
Fellowship: Exert a knight to play a [Gondor] mount from your draw deck.
"...all the mounted men that were left in the City... with their Prince and his blue banner at their head."

Chaaaarge! The Dol Amroth knights should be a mount oriented subculture, I think.

That's all.

EDIT: typos. (Like Barliman Butterbut.)
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: menace64 on April 17, 2020, 02:28:49 PM
Quote from: Durin's Heir
Hmm, nope, it'd actually be like this: "Hunter 3. (Add 3 to the minion Hunter total.)" That's like Goblin Marksman, whose reminder text doesn't explain the whole archery procedure.

I'm down with the idea (scanning hands/decks is an open and ready design space) but what about:

Hunter 3 (At the start of the assignment phase, look at X cards at random in an opponent's hand.)

This version loses the draw deck !scouting but might be a more streamlined version of its intent: to see what you're up against before you have to fight it.

-----

Quote from: Durin's Heir
1. Dol Amroth Soldier, and all non-unique Swan-knights, shouldn't need to "spot a knight" to enter the game. They should be a separate subculture than Alcarin's fortification knights, and forcing to spot a non-Amroth knight dilutes the focus. Only unique Amroth knights should need so, like Imrahil or a Dol Amroth Cavalry.

Done.

Quote from: Durin's Heir
2. "Shadow possession" should be "Shadow card." That'd make the new token knights counter -and grow against- any token Shadow deck, but moderately since still won't be too easy for a Dol Amroth Soldier to defeat Uruks and replete Down to the Last Child or [Isengard] machines. Bound By Rage, Arrow From the South, Rank and File, Grond HotU, Larder, all should find a greater opposition from in !fearless Numenoreans than in, say, grim rangers.

Oh heck yeah! Like I said, my only goal was to give corsairs something to think about - but if changing one word across the seven cards gives them access as counters to a number of powerful decks, then yes, yes, it should be done.

-----
Quote from: Durin's Heir
[1] The Lay of Nimrodel [Gondor]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. To play, spot 2 [Gondor] knights.
Each time a knight wins a skirmish, you may remove a threat (limit once per site).
"Men that saw them whispered saying: 'Belike the old tales speak well; there is Elvish blood in the veins of that folk, for the people of Nimrodel dwelt in that land once long ago.'"

(17U8) or (2U120) for an easy picture? Unfortunately we still haven't got the extended-extended cut of RotK and thus lack all the footage they shot of the Grey Company rallying the coastal armies.

Solid addition to the theme!

Quote from: Durin's Heir
[3] •Imrahil, Captain of the Swan-knights [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 7  Vitality 3
Knight. To play, spot a [Gondor] knight.
While you have initiative, each mounted [Gondor] Man is strength +1 and damage +1.
Fellowship: Exert a knight to play a [Gondor] mount from your draw deck.
"...all the mounted men that were left in the City... with their Prince and his blue banner at their head."

Well this just leads us right into the rest of the Gondorian Lords during the build-up to the Siege, doesn't it?  \:D/
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on April 17, 2020, 10:32:21 PM
I'm down with the idea (scanning hands/decks is an open and ready design space) but what about:

Hunter 3 (At the start of the assignment phase, look at X cards at random in an opponent's hand.)

This version loses the draw deck !scouting but might be a more streamlined version of its intent: to see what you're up against before you have to fight it.
I believe there should be in the end only a Hunter side and a Hunted one. Investing in FP hunters would result in either a !scouting on your opponent's resources, or a (partial or complete) protection from being scouted.

With this Hunter rule reform, [Gandalf] players might prefer to use Erland AtB instead of Dale Counselor (and NBOO would increase its value too). Those protect only the hand content, which gives more reasons to keep the draw deck !scouting.

-----

(17U8) or (2U120) for an easy picture?
No, I actually meant (17U34). It's meant to keep threats low enough to keep Shining Mail working, and Knight's Spear powerful.

Well this just leads us right into the rest of the Gondorian Lords during the build-up to the Siege, doesn't it?  \:D/
I'll start with the Lord of Lossarnach, and his footmen:

[2] •Forlong, Lord of Lossarnach (https://frostsnow.com/uploads/biography/2016/01/05/xedward-furlong.jpg.pagespeed.ic.nwdsCD_AIv.jpg) [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 5  Vitality 4  Denethor signet
Knight. To play, spot a [Gondor] Man.
Forlong is damage +1 for each mount, weapon or armor in his skirmish.
Skirmish: If Forlong is damage +X, exert him make him strength +X.
"...a man of wide shoulders and huge girth, but old and grey-bearded, yet mail-clad and black-helmed..."

A Dwarf-like kamikaze Gondorian. The greater the !peril, the more lethal he becomes!

[2] Axeman of Lossarnach [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 5  Vitality 3
This companion is damage +1 for each mount, weapon or armor in his skirmish.
Skirmish: If this companion is damage +X, play a [Gondor] event to make him strength +X.
"Behind him marched proudly a dusty line of men... grim-faced they were, and shorter and somewhat swarthier than any men that Pippin had yet seen in Gondor."

Not knights unlike their lord, to not allow them to bear mounts (footmen only) or use fortifications. More disciplined and less suicidal (won't exert) than their master, but a Dwarvish kind of fighters still: the tougher the brawl, the harder their axe strikes.

So with an Armor, a Gondor Bow and a Gondorian Sword, will be str 7 dmg+3 (while Alcarin would be str 10 with the same baggage). Play a basic str+2 pump (Sentinels of Numenor) and will rise to str 12 (just as Alcarin would, but with damage +3 to consider)!

[2] Battle-axe of Lossarnach [Gondor]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be a [Gondor] Man.
While bearer has a damage bonus, he or she is strength +1
While bearer is skirmishing, Shadow cards cannot limit or negate wounds.
"...a dusty line of men, well-armed and bearing great battle-axes..."

Expensive, but worthy: the first text makes it strength +3 in the hands of a Lossarnach fighter or a Ranger of Minas Tirith (or anyone's hands after Dagger Strike, Still Sharp or Noble Leaders), while the second renders the protection texts of Easterling Polearm, Uruk Assault Band, Harmless and Deceived Wizards useless (but wounds can still be prevented by, say, All Blades Perish or Hides).

[2] Barded Horse [Gondor]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be a [Gondor] knight.
Bearer is damage +1.
While bearer is unexhausted (or bears an !armor), you need one less card in hand to have initiative (to a minimum of 2).
"Leading the line there came walking a big thick-limbed horse, and on it sat a man of wide shoulders..."

Initiative protection (the inverse of Streaming to the Field), which helps cards like Imrahil Captain, I Will Go, Stand to Arms and even Gondorian Sword; but hinders abominations like Hardy Garrison and Glimpse of Fate. And gives damage, for Forlong's benefit.


The overall mechanics are pretty obvious: they thrive in possessions, damage, events and risks. And kill!

---

Returning to Dol Amroth, here's another mechanic unused in [Gondor] cards:

[1] Amroth !For Gondor! [Gondor]
Condition • Support Area
Skirmish: If a mounted [Gondor] knight is not assigned to a skirmish, remove a [Gondor] token to have him replace an unbound companion in a skirmish. Remove another [Gondor] token or discard this condition.
"Now they sprang forward, formed, quickened to a gallop, and charged with a great shout."

Twice the fun!

--------

This has very little to do here, but jumped to my mind and better post it:

[2] Spectral Mount [Gondor]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be a [Gondor] Wraith.
Bearer is damage +1.
Response: If you lose initiative, exert bearer or add threat to draw a card.
"'...The Dead awaken; / for the hour is come for the oathbreakers; / at the Stone of Erech they shall stand again / and hear there a horn in the hills ringing.'"

Once [Gondor] Wraiths lose initiative, they become vulnerable. So this gives them extra mileage when facing that !peril (or even a drawing engine during Fellowship).
Title: Re: Let's write some cards to perhaps balance the meta.
Post by: Durin's Heir on April 23, 2020, 06:47:54 PM
Well this just leads us right into the rest of the Gondorian Lords during the build-up to the Siege, doesn't it?  \:D/
This one was not a Lord, but I believe this micro sub-culture is still worth posting:

[2] •Hirgon, Errand-rider of Denethor [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 6  Vitality 3  Denethor signet
Ranger.
Assignment: Exert Hirgon to play The Red Arrow from your draw deck. You may discard 2 cards from hand to take a [Rohan] card from your draw deck into hand.
"He sank on one knee and presented the arrow to Théoden. 'Hail Lord of the Rohirrim, friend of Gondor!'"

Self-explaining, but anyway it goes this way: pack 4x Red Arrow and this companion in a [Rohan] deck, and start with Hirgon and at least one other [Gondor] Man to play 2 [Rohan] companions per turn... during assignment! You can discard 2 from hand to get the Rohirrim you want to play into hand, but if you already have one, you can fetch a possession to play with the Red Arrow, or a [Rohan] event.


[2] Errand-rider of Minas Tirith [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Strength 6  Vitality 3  Denethor signet
Ranger.
Fellowship: Exert this companion to play a [Gondor] mount on a ranger.
"...and presently the thudding of hoofs was heard, and three riders swept up and passed like flying ghosts in the moon and vanished !into the West."

Perfect starting companion for Hirgon. Hirgon plays the Arrows, and this one plays the mounts to make them work better, see below...


(0) Errand Mount [Gondor]
Possession • Mount
Strength +1
Bearer must be an unbound ranger.
Each time a roaming minion is played, you may add [1] to heal bearer.
Skirmish: Play a [Gondor] event to make a roaming minion strength -1.
"...fair !stables where a few swift horses were kept, hard by the lodgings of the errand-riders of the Lord..."

Recovers vitality whenever a minion is played before its site number. That means you can exhaust Errand Rider safely in your first turn at least even against Dunland, since everyone but Nelya and Bill Ferny SSF will be healing those rangers by then. Then you'll have 2 mounted rangers recovering that key Vitality to play [Rohan] Men twice per turn. And all that fetching of Arrows, [Gondor] mounts and [Rohan] Men / possessions / events will filter your deck for a better Shadow to FP ratio, while playing strong Rohirrim during the best possible phase.

Also, the skirmish skill makes [Gondor] pumps more effective with Roaming mechanics (Man the Walls, Ancient Roads, Second and Third Level), even for Frodo or a Rohirrim in the desperate case of needing 1 strength only (like sentinels attracting the enemy). And finally, it allows unbound rangers to join Imrahil's cavalry rally, and makes Errand Rider and Hirgon eligible targets for Leod's pumping and Weland's healing (which can too be played by the Arrow).

Add HIDAN and Dear Friends (and Well Stored), and stain the fields with Orc blood!