The Last Homely House
General => Council of Cobra => Topic started by: Incognito on July 08, 2022, 08:25:18 AM
-
I'm back my babies.
Was my long absence due to a stint in prison? You'll never know. But I'm back with a brand new game:
Clue mixed with 20 questions.
For this round I will limit the card pool to Fellowship of the Ring Block (sets 1-3).
You will have 12 questions for each of the four cards (48 questions total):
You stalwart detectives must determine:
1. Who the killer is
2. Who the victim is
3. The location the murder was committed
4. The murder weapon
Discussion amongst yourselves is encouraged. To submit an official question for me to answer, please use the following format:
[Killer/Victim/Location/Weapon] Question #[X]
[Question in yes/no format]
For example:
Killer Question #1
Is the killer a goblin?
After the questions, Each player can submit to me their accusation (guess of each of the 4 cards) through DM, and I will award the winners (first to DM me the correct card combo).
Let the chaos begin!
-
You are very unsettling. You're handing out awards though, and what a shame it would be to miss out over a few measly "I am putting myself in grave danger" red flags.
Location Question #1
Did the murder take place at a site with keywords?
-
You are very unsettling. You're handing out awards though, and what a shame it would be to miss out over a few measly "I am putting myself in grave danger" red flags.
Location Question #1
Did the murder take place at a site with keywords?
Yes.
-
Was the killer a minion?
-
Was the killer a minion?
No. And that is killer question #1
-
Weapon Question #1
Is the murder weapon a hand weapon?
-
Weapon Question #1
Is the murder weapon a hand weapon?
No.
-
Killer Question #2
Can the killer bear a pipe?
-
Killer Question #2
Can the killer bear a pipe?
Yes.
-
Victim Question #1
Was the victim a minion?
-
Killer Question #3
Is the killer a Hobbit?
-
Victim Question #1
Was the victim a minion?
Yes
-
Killer Question #3
Is the killer a Hobbit?
Yes
-
Location Question #2
Could A Ranger's Versatility be played here?
-
Location Question #2
Could A Ranger's Versatility be played here?
No
-
Whenever new information is gleaned I will try my best to put it here.
Location is not an underground, river, or forest site, but it does have a keyword and is a sanctuary. It's game text is passive, and it can remove a burden.
House of Elrond
Killer is a non-unique Hobbit ally whose home is site 1. "The killer or his accomplice are not pigs."
Hobbit Party Guest
Victim is a minion that is not an Orc, Uruk-hai, Balrog or twilight minion, with a [Strength] greater than or equal to 11 and a [Vitality] of 4. Also, it's damage +1.
Cave Troll of Moria, SotBP
Weapon is not a hand weapon, possession, or artifact (so we're pretty thrown); but it does have a special ability (like Skirmish:). It is not from set 1 (https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring/Index) (The Fellowship of the Ring). Also, don't waste your time asking about collector's info; !Incognito won't answer it. Also it's a Free Peoples card that is not a condition. Not a [Gondor], [Elven] or [Shire] card. It's special phase is either skirmish, fellowship, or fellowship or regroup. It's a [Dwarven] card. It's phase is skirmish.
Flurry of Blows
If you find any errors, please let me know so they can be rectified.
-
Deductive reasoning, following the evidence, this is real cop work you are doing. But can you catch me? You better not miss any crucial details...
-
I think it doesn't matter if you ask Sanctuary if Underground first. Either way you get similar results.
-
Killer question #4: is the killer an ally?
-
Just realized I forgot Hobbit Farmer in my post, just updated it.
Location Question #3
Is the site underground?
-
Killer question #4: is the killer an ally?
Yes.
-
Just realized I forgot Hobbit Farmer in my post, just updated it.
Location Question #3
Is the site underground?
No.
-
Killer question #5: is the Killer unique?
-
Killer question #5: is the Killer unique?
No.
-
I'm going to update my top post with our new information.
-
Location Question #4
Is the location a sanctuary?
Killer Question #6
Is the killer's home site 1?
Victim Question #2
Is the victim an Orc?
Weapon Question #2
Does the weapon have a special ability? (Not Ranger's Sword's "He is damage +1", but Frying Pan's "Skirmish:")
-
Location Question #4
Is the location a sanctuary?
Yes.
Killer Question #6
Is the killer's home site 1?
Yes.
Victim Question #2
Is the victim an Orc?
No.
Weapon Question #2
Does the weapon have a special ability? (Not Ranger's Sword's "He is damage +1", but Frying Pan's "Skirmish:")
Yes. The murder weapon does have a special ability like “skirmish:”
-
Victim Question #3
Is the victim an Uruk-hai?
-
Victim Question #3
Is the victim an Uruk-hai?
No.
-
Weapon question 3: is the weapon a possession?
-
Location Question #5:
Is the location's game text passive or active? (Passive: "When the fellowship moves from here, remove [2]." Active: "Fellowship: Play a Man to draw a card.")
-
Weapon question 3: is the weapon a possession?
No.
-
Location Question #5:
Is the location's game text passive or active? (Passive: "When the fellowship moves from here, remove [2]." Active: "Fellowship: Play a Man to draw a card.")
Not a yes or no question.
-
Location Question #5:
Is the location's game text passive?
-
Location Question #5:
Is the location's game text passive?
Yes.
-
Weapon question 4: Is the weapon an artifact?
-
Thank you Tunadan for saving my passive/active question.
Victim Question #4
Is the victim strength 11 or greater?
-
Weapon question 4: Is the weapon an artifact?
No.
-
Thank you Tunadan for saving my passive/active question.
Victim Question #4
Is the victim strength 11 or greater?
Yes.
-
Ooph, 4 questions to find out we know less about the murder weapon than we thought we knew at the start. There are just over 180 events and 120 conditions in Fellowship block, and if we ask the ideal question and half the pool for each of the remaining question we come down to... 1-2 cards to pick from. Oh, but we can cut out conditions that don't have special abilities! That puts us down to ~60 conditions and ~180 events. Ideal questioning definitely gets us to an answer in the next 8 questions, and if we're almost-ideal we can still get to it with only 7 questions.
Quick assumptions -- one question to learn the card's side, one (hopefully) for type, two for culture, two for phase, and that would leave us with just two questions to figure out what the card is from there. Doable depending on the culture, but we may also wind up guessing between 2-3 cards at the end. Phase and culture are the weak spots here: if one of those takes longer it'll leave us picking between one of 3-9 cards depending on how unlucky we are. And that's only if this is an event or condition... Aragorn threw Gimli at Uruk-hai, after all :lol:
So I think we should leave culture and phase alone for a while, maybe some of the other clues will naturally cause all e.g. Elven cards to fall off the way all underground sites were eliminated by the time we got to guessing if the site was a sanctuary. Card type too, since at the moment if it's an event we only remove 60 cards by asking instead of the ideal 120. And yet, without knowing culture, phase, or card type I'm not really sure what to ask. We can ask something along the lines of "does it place a wound token on a character" but it's going to be really hard to filter down to what that means without some tuning beforehand, especially after two or three of that type of question.
Side will also knock out either all FP or Shadow cultures and either the Fellowship or Shadow phase, that might be our best bet? Rarity cuts the field into thirds but it's a gamble whether we're left with 1/3rd or 2/3rds of the possibilities. Any other ideas? Even if we do ask about side, what would be a good follow-up question? Culture, phase, and card type would all still be pretty far from halving the remaining cards but what else do we ask about?
-
Now you see the danger in forcing your own theories and presuppositions instead of following the evidence.
What will it be coppers? Will you follow the clues this time?
Missing one vital detail could scuttle your whole case.
-
This is not necessarily new information, or even very useful, but I remember a while ago learning about a Guess Who? strategy that said every guess cut the options down by half (like Phallen said). They do this by asking questions with or. "Does your character have blue eyes or brown hair?" This is a yes or no question because it's not asking which one you are "blue-eyed" or "brown-haired", but whether or not you are either one. If you had either, you would answer yes, otherwise (if you had neither), you would answer no.
Perhaps there is someway we could use this, like "Is the weapon a condition or a strength boost?" (Note: Not necessarily a useful question; don't use this unless it's been thought through.)
In the mean time, I'm going to add every event and condition (and maybe character) to the list at the top of page 2.
-
Side will also knock out either all FP or Shadow cultures and either the Fellowship or Shadow phase, that might be our best bet? Rarity cuts the field into thirds but it's a gamble whether we're left with 1/3rd or 2/3rds of the possibilities. Any other ideas? Even if we do ask about side, what would be a good follow-up question? Culture, phase, and card type would all still be pretty far from halving the remaining cards but what else do we ask about?
I think that rarity is a safe bet. Two questions (max) to cut out 2/3 of the pool is pretty good. We still would have 6 questions after that.
-
Just realized the weapon could be the ring.
-
Side will also knock out either all FP or Shadow cultures and either the Fellowship or Shadow phase, that might be our best bet? Rarity cuts the field into thirds but it's a gamble whether we're left with 1/3rd or 2/3rds of the possibilities. Any other ideas? Even if we do ask about side, what would be a good follow-up question? Culture, phase, and card type would all still be pretty far from halving the remaining cards but what else do we ask about?
I think that rarity is a safe bet. Two questions (max) to cut out 2/3 of the pool is pretty good. We still would have 6 questions after that.
We could also just go full on collector's info; guess the set and card number that way too.
-
In the mean time, I'm going to add every event and condition (and maybe character) to the list at the top of page 4.
That'd mean adding 240 cards and then slowly removing them line by line... A lot of work, if you ask me :P Lets just wait until we know more.
I like collector's info, guessing whether it's set 1 cuts things roughly in half and is somewhat lopsided in the information it gives us. Card number is a clever way to potentially half by culture, but we'd want side first I think -- that'd give us the best chance of pinning culture in 3 questions (1 for side, 2 for culture as above) if we decide to go that route. That way we save rarity for when we have more of one than either of the other two so there's not as much risk (nor reward of course, if we would guess rarity correct the first time).
Eh. DOIN' IT!
Weapon Question #5
Is the weapon from set 1?
-
Victim Question #5
Is the victim a Balrog or a twilight minion?
-
Weapon Question #5
Is the weapon from set 1?
No.
-
Victim Question #5
Is the victim a Balrog or a twilight minion?
No.
-
Kay, so not the one ring.
-
Victim Question #6
Does the minion have a vitality of 4?
-
Victim Question #6
Does the minion have a vitality of 4?
Yes.
-
Victim Question #7
Is the victim inherently damage +1?
-
Victim Question #7
Is the victim inherently damage +1?
Yes.
-
To my comrades:
Do we want to just continue with this set number stuff? Ask if it's it set 2 now? Unless someone tells me not to, I intend for the next Weapon Question (which is #6) to be if it's in set 2.
-
To my comrades:
Do we want to just continue with this set number stuff? Ask if it's it set 2 now? Unless someone tells me not to, I intend for the next Weapon Question (which is #6) to be if it's in set 2.
The thing about killers is that they can change the rules on you from time to time. From now on, I won’t be answering questions that reference collector info. You learned too much from the last one I fear.
-
To my comrades:
Do we want to just continue with this set number stuff? Ask if it's it set 2 now? Unless someone tells me not to, I intend for the next Weapon Question (which is #6) to be if it's in set 2.
The thing about killers is that they can change the rules on you from time to time. From now on, I won’t be answering questions that reference collector info. You learned too much from the last one I fear.
Welp.
-
How rude of him :p
-
Obviously this calls for a change of strategy. :-k
I think maybe we ask for side right now, and then culture, like Phallen first suggested. Here's a small game-plan:
Free Peoples?
If yes - [Gandalf] or [Gondor] or [Dwarven]? (If no than it has to be [Elven] or [Shire], so ask if it's [Shire]. If yes for [Gandalf] or [Gondor] or [Dwarven] ask if it's [Gondor], if no for that ask if it's [Dwarven], we'll know once that is answered.)
If no - [Isengard] or [Moria]? (If no than it has to be [Sauron] or [Wraith], so ask if it's [Sauron]. If yes to [Sauron], then we know what it is. If yes to [Isengard] or [Moria], ask if it's [Isengard]; then we should know for sure.)
Then maybe ask if it's a condition?
-
Location Question #6
Can the site remove a burden?
-
Location Question #6
Can the site remove a burden?
Yes.
-
I'm going to ask if it's [Gandalf] or [Gondor] or [Dwarven] next unless one of yous tells me not to.
-
I'm going to ask if it's [Gandalf] or [Gondor] or [Dwarven] next unless one of yous tells me not to.
Whoops, I meant for it to be if it's a Free Peoples card, not about culture yet. My bad.
-
I will be out of cell rage for 4 days (going backpacking) so I’ll be sure to answer questions on my return. I’ll also do one last check for questions at around 5-6 AM mountain time USA.
-
Weapon Question #6
Is the weapon a Free Peoples card?
-
Weapon Question #6
Is the weapon a Free Peoples card?
Yes.
-
Weapon question #7: Is the weapon a condition?
-
Weapon question #7: Is the weapon a condition?
No.
-
Killer Question #7
Does the killer know a thing or two about radioactivity?
-
Killer Question #7
Does the killer know a thing or two about radioactivity?
Um… not that I know of?
-
Killer Question #7
Does the killer know a thing or two about radioactivity?
Um… not that I know of?
Kay, so not Hobbit Farmer. :lol:
-
Just to be safe though...
Killer Question #8
Is the killer or his accomplice a pig?
-
Just to be safe though...
Killer Question #8
Is the killer or his accomplice a pig?
No.
-
Weapon has been narrowed down to 56 cards now, which is not great, but with our 5 questions left (and perfect guessing), #8 gets 28, #9 gets 14, #10 gets 7, #11 gets 4/3, #12 gets 1/2. So it's not impossible, but also not likely that we get exactly half each time.
Now, I've been assuming it can be a character (not that it makes much sense, but just because I really don't want to make the same mistake twice). If we ignore the characters we're left with just events, which means we could start asking about phase. Ignoring the characters also brings us down to 39 cards, meaning #8 - 20/19, #9 - 10/9, #10 - 5/4, #11 - 3/2, #12 - 1/2. So, if we eliminate characters, we definitely have more of a fighting chance, but I'm just having flashbacks to "Huh it's not a possession, that narrows it down" to "Crud, it's not an artifact either; back to the drawing board." I think a nice next question would be "Is the weapon Gondor [Gondor] or Elven [Elven] card?" Regardless of whether or not characters are in the pool, that splits it fairly in half (if yes with characters, it will leave us 27, no with characters leaves 28; yes without characters gives 18, no without gives 21).
-
One accusation has been made! One cop to rule them all? One cop to bind them? Or one cop to bring them all, and in the courtroom have the case thrown out for lack of evidence? Either way, one of you has made their accusation, and will no longer be permitted to ask questions. For the rest of you, your task is clear. be the first cop to assemble all of the evidence and make your arrest.
The clock is ticking my lovelies.
-
Tick.
-
Tock.
-
Hmmmm..........
Well, this is interesting. @!Incognito, are we allowed to know who made an accusation? In the meantime...
Weapon Question #8
Is the weapon a Gondor [Gondor] or Elven [Elven] card?
-
Hmmmm..........
Well, this is interesting. @!Incognito, are we allowed to know who made an accusation? In the meantime...
Weapon Question #8
Is the weapon a Gondor [Gondor] or Elven [Elven] card?
I’m not telling.
No. The weapon is neither a Gondor or elven card.
-
Weapon Question #9
Is the weapon a [Shire] card?
-
Weapon Question #9
Is the weapon a [Shire] card?
No.
-
Weapon Question #10
Is the weapon's special ability's phase on of the following: "Skirmish:", "Fellowship:", "Fellowship or Regroup:"?
-
Weapon Question #10
Is the weapon's special ability's phase on of the following: "Skirmish:", "Fellowship:", "Fellowship or Regroup:"?
Yes.
-
Weapon Question #11
Is the weapon a [Dwarven] card?
-
Weapon Question #11
Is the weapon a [Dwarven] card?
Yes.
-
Weapon Question #12
Is the weapon's special ability's phase skirmish?
-
Weapon Question #12
Is the weapon's special ability's phase skirmish?
Yes.
-
Location Question #7
Does the site's name of "Elrond" in it?
-
Location Question #7
Does the site's name of "Elrond" in it?
I’m going to not answer specific title names at this point. If you think you know you can PM your accusation.
-
Pm sent a little ago.
-
It was a dark and stormy night, but in the quiet town of Rivendell, Elrond was throwing a rager. In the House of Elrond there were guest from all walks of life, elves, men, orcs, trolls, even a few hobbits had made the long journey. Deep into the night, perhaps in the early hours of the morning, while Elrond was doing a keg stand a bellowing cry broke the revelry. Elrond and the other guests rushed to the basement where they found Scorgie the DJ (more commonly known as The Cave Troll of Moria, Scourge of the Black Pit) dead on the floor. Piecing together what had happened, Elrond learned that a Hobbit Party Guest out of his mind on bath salts had pummeled the Troll to death with a Flurry of Blows. Fearing that if the cops were called he and his friends would be arrested for snorting some illicit "fire of Orthanc", they pushed the cave troll into the stream flowing through the house (because its rivendell, and that seems to be a feature most desirable in elven houses. in fact elven realtors are known recommend upgrading your house with a stream before you put it on the market as this will add value and make it easier to sell.) At any rate, the body of the troll was not found until the next day, when a shrouded elf was walking along the riverbank and discovered the body.
The Elven constables were called, and nothing seemed to add up. They set about collecting evidence and worked towards apprehending the killer. They quickly deduced that the body had washed down from the House of Elrond where they had had multiple noise complaints the night before. Following this, they deduced that the victim was in fact DJ Scourgie (AKA The Cave troll of Moria, Scourge of the Black Pit. After questioning many of the party guests, they learned that a particular Hobbit Party Guest had been alone with the troll in the basement, and quickly but out an APB for his arrest.
One cop, constable Phallen Cassidy, quickly put these three facts together and made an arrest of the hobbit party guest. However, as the Elven District Attorney was assembling the case, Phallen Cassidy claimed that the troll was killed with some fancy Hobbit Sword Play. While this had an excellent logic (as how else would a hobbit party guest every be able to take down the cave troll of moria, scourge of the black pit? However, the coroner's report indicated no evidence of any blades being use to kill the troll. The report indicated the couse of death and blunt force trauma, with an extremely high count of blows. The elven police force had no choice but to let the hobbit party guest go on this technicality. Fortunately, a young upshot rising in the ranks put the final piece in place. Young Tunadan determined that while on bathsalts, the hobbit party guest was able to murder the cave troll with a Flurry of Blows. The hobbit party guest was rearrested, tried for murder, and convicted. Let's hope the jail in Rivendell holds hobbits better than the Wood Elves' jail in Mirkwood. And while Tunadan's name was in newspapers all across the land, the unsung hero JamesCB was the cop who did most of the legwork, followed every lead, and collected most of the evidence used in the trial of Hobbit Party Guest.
To wrap it up:
Tunadan was the first cop to correctly guess all 4 cards (Though Phallen Cassidy guessed very close to correct pretty early on, and I loved the logic. hobbit sword play would have actually let a hobbit party guest beat a cave troll, however, this is a game, so I was just going for titles that made sense together, and wasn't restricting to game play rules.)
The correct cards were:
Killer was: Hobbit party guest
Location was: House of Elrond
Weapon was: Flurry of Blows
Victim was: Cave Troll of Moria, Scourge of the Black Pit.
Please drop some feedback on this. If you liked it, I'd be happy to tweak a couple rules and run it back with Towers block. I also noted a couple people wanted the kill to make sense from the actual TCG game rules perspective, which could be interesting, but also could limit some fun things (like the location could be a condition e.g. tower of orthanc). But ultimately I want this to be fun for everyone, so let me know what you want, i'll think about it, and can make a new scenario if people want to continue to participate. My observations are below, feel free to comment on them:
1. One thing to remember is that it is the first person to guess correctly that wins, so you don't always want to define every card perfectly before guessing.
2. 12 guesses per card seems excessive. Perhaps a total number of guesses that can be used amongst all the cards would be better (like 30 total guesses).
3. Guessing off the collector info sortof just made it a bit boring from my side, not sure how you guys felt about that one. I really liked the questions that related to the pictures and the text best. I'd love some input here.
4. I was just answering as I had time to check the site, was there any negative impact here? Should I answer a certain number of questions per day, etc?
Anyways, I had fun with this, and hope you guys did as well.
As for my identity, you may find it interesting that I returned around the same time as macheteman, but you may never know...
-
Enjoyed it. JamesCB definitely deserves more credit than me for deducing. Perhaps a more difficult version is in order.
-
Incredible XD You are quite the storyteller! I think lowering the number of guesses makes sense. It's tricky because we are competing both with and against one another. I was hoping my radioactive question would make sense to you and not my fellow cops, but alas :P I've thought of some ways to be a bit sneakier next time though...
I had most fun trying to think up clever and concise ways to get as much information as possible -- whether the killer could bear a pipe or whether A Ranger's Versatility could be played. Those weren't directly about the card the way some of the other image/text questions were, and I'm up for whatever constraints you want to place on the cops. Restrictions breed creativity! Certainly don't mind putting collector and perhaps other "meta info" off limits, or at least limiting how they're asked about in some way.
I'm glad it turned out not to be a "weapon" in TCG terms and don't mind at all that it wasn't limited by the game's rules. After this round we've kind of established some expectations again, although only time will tell if these expectations will work out better than our original ones! I'm torn for location in particular, because some yes/no questions (one I considered was "are Uruk-hai roaming here?") don't really have a yes/no answer if it's not a site ("Sometimes?"). And you can get crazy with just card titles, it could've turned out that Hobbit Party Guest was trying to sell Shire timeshares to Elrond's wealthy friends and, after one too many rude comment and turned nose, killed Some Who Resisted instead of just roughing them up a bit :P
I wouldn't want to limit the possibilities, and yet at the same time I'm not sure I want to spend the first two questions of every topic trying to figure out the general card type so that the remaining questions are coherent. It's a tough balance. I think sites are the only ones that have this problem though? Everything else probably has a yes/no, even if it isn't helpful in any real way. "Why no, this event does *not* play to the support area." You're the psychopath, anyway -- I'm sure you'll figure something out.
-
Towers Block would be fun for the next one, if you're taking requests \:D/
-
I'm fine with Towers Block, but maybe we do sets 1-6 with the same number of questions. (Haven't thought this through a ton, just a random string of words that leaped into my mind).
-
Ok, I'm going to think through the feedback, and plan a new round. stay tuned.