The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Archives of Minas Tirith => Topic started by: TheJord on December 16, 2009, 04:37:11 PM
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Can I use Pass of Caradhras to play Caradhras has not Forgiven Us in the Shadow phase?
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I would guess no, just because it is a manuever event.
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i was thinking the same - no you cannot. I suspect timing is an absolute rule than cannot be changed by any other card.
but i can see how the card implies that you can. If an action can over-rule the timing of a card it has potential to trigger a range of effects on many other cards i suspect.
Interested to see what others think - because if you can - its time to look through all the cards and see what combos this may create.
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I would say yes, think about cards like the red arrow, it allows you to play cards out of phase. so does the gamling and eowyn from bohd. Those aren't events, but I think it is still applicable.
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From the Comprehensive Rulebook 4.0, page 3:
You cannot play an event during a phase that does not match its phase action.
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Ah ha, so cards don't always do what they say they do.
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Solved by Mr Lurtzy...
Will this tear the fabric of the space time continuum? ;D
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I dunno, I still think the Red Arrow thing is a good argument. And, as far as Mr. Lurtzy's research goes, do I need to quote the part of the rulebook that says when the rules and the cards conflict, follow the cards? =P
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I dunno, I still think the Red Arrow thing is a good argument. And, as far as Mr. Lurtzy's research goes, do I need to quote the part of the rulebook that says when the rules and the cards conflict, follow the cards? =P
The Red Arrow is not an event though.
-wtk
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As far as I can tell, this rule serves no purpose other than to stop actions such as this. How else could you play an event out of its correct phase unless another card implies that you could.
So i think it is fair to say - no you can't.
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I dunno, I still think the Red Arrow thing is a good argument. And, as far as Mr. Lurtzy's research goes, do I need to quote the part of the rulebook that says when the rules and the cards conflict, follow the cards? =P
The key point is the Red Arrow does not play events out of phase, it plays companions and possessions - cards that stick around. Similarly you can play minions in the regroup phase (Spied From Above) and skirmish phase (Hill Clan) because they don't have particular phase words associated with them, whereas events do.
Thranduil
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I think for the most part, rules describe what you can do. Then where necessary, restrictions are made within this framework; for example, the Rule of 4, which limits how many cards you can draw in the fellowship phase.
So going by this:
- You can perform game text if the rules don't prohibit it. Example: Playing companions outside the fellowship phase. The rules don't prohibit you from playing them outside the fellowship phase--they just don't give you a built-in way of doing so.
- You can perform game text if it acknowledges somehow the rule that's being broken, or can only work with it broken. Example: Using Sent Back to play Gandalf when a copy is in the dead pile ("even if another copy of that wizard is in your dead pile").
That's the gist of it I think, though there are issues like O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! not working without the need for errata. But for this topic, IMO the wording of Pass of Caradhras is not enough to break the rule Lurtzy quoted. Play a weather card... provided there isn't a rule prohibiting said card from being played that phase.
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can we seriously be debating this?? there is no way to play a maneuver card in the shadow phase, can you use Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant Of Morgul in the shadow?? no! And it's not like you could use AWINL in the assignment phase.
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Havo dad, Legolas
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Havo dad, Legolas
I wish he said something cool at that point in the movie that i could respond with
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I wish he said something cool at that point in the movie that i could respond with
He #$&*@! out.
-wtk
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In all my years of playing, I've seen companions and possessions played during the skirmish phase, minions played from discard piles, conditions played during the regroup phase, but I have never seen, nor learned, of a way to play events out of phase. I think the card in question refers to weather cards which are playable during the shadow phase
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ok my deal with it is that events are basically one time actions, so a skirmish event is a one time skirmish action hence you cannot play a skirmish event in the assignment phase because you cannot use a skirmish action in the assignment phase. did i make sense? But for other cards, you can play conditions in the regroup phase thanks to cards like some secret art of flame, you can play minions from hand and discard piles with easterling scout/last days, you can play possessions in the skirmish phase with gamling, you can play companions in the assignment phase with the red arrow, but those are all examples of playing cards, not using an "action" in the wrong phase.
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Well, it is said that if a card contradicts the rules, the card wins. So I would say yes, it is playable, unless it said something like: Play a weather condition from your draw deck.
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But sharkey, the point is that there are no examples of, and the rulebook specifically prohibits, playing events out of phase.
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Simple errata to: Play a weather condition from your draw deck - while maybe not entirely necessary depending on which side of the fence you sit - would end this discussion.
Even an accepted ruling and a clarification entry in the rule book would be great - same for Crashed Gates. A rules team and up-to-date CRD would be tops!
Bring on a PC !!
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There's no need for an errata, because the rule really isn't that confusing.
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As the OP, I must agree with Lurtzy's assessment and reference from the CRD.