The Last Homely House
Undying Lands => The Straight Road => House Rules => Topic started by: Tbiesty on March 05, 2011, 07:31:51 PM
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This is a discussion in a series to determine how to re-legalize the 25 movie block cards that are banned in "House Rules".
The list of all the cards can be found here. (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php/topic,6509.msg66823.html#msg66823)
These "unbanning" discussions will be done in parallel through June 15th, 2011, at which time, we will vote on the solution we will use for each card.
Note: I will update the "Proposed Solution" section of this post as the discussion progresses.
Here we go! Let the discussion begin!
The Card
[3] Mordor Fiend [Sauron]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 9
Vitality: 3
Site: 6
Shadow: If you cannot spot another
minion and there are 3 or fewer twilight
tokens, add [3] (or [5] if this minion is
roaming).
Current Situation
FOTR: N/A
TS: N/A
Movie: Banned (because of loop with The Dark Lord's Summons)
Legalizing Options
- Legalize as is (i.e. allow 4 per deck -- can be done per format)
- Restrict as is (i.e. allow 1 per deck -- can be done per format)
- Errata (i.e. change game text and allow 4 per deck -- affects all formats)
Proposed Solution
In this case, either just legalizing or restricting the card as is would still allow the loop to exist.
Therefore, errata of Mordor Fiend is the only option that would work.
[3] Mordor Fiend [Sauron]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 9
Vitality: 3
Site: 6
When you play this minion, if you cannot spot
another minion and there are 3 or fewer twilight
tokens, add [3] (or [5] if this minion is roaming).
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What happened to taking your time? Wasn't the Gondorian Captain discussion opened 12 hours ago?
-wtk
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These "unbanning" discussions will be done in parallel through June 15th, 2011, at which time, we will vote on the solution we will use for each card.
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Yes, I can read. But you don't think that items should be taken singularly? I think that you are muddling the efforts that you are pushing for by presenting an overwhelming number of cases at this point.
Meanwhile, you seem to be the only one on this committee or the dream cards committee who is pushing the process. Starting topics. Posting polls. I rhetorically ask what is the point of having a committee if this is the case?
Just things to consider. What's the rush anyways?
-wtk
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I agree with ket. We are not going to do 25 discussions at once. Slow down and locked for now.
Edit: Furthermore, I don't think the issues of speed/timing and whether to unban any cards at all have been sufficiently addressed. If anything some discussion/polls should take place regarding those two facets of the process.
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As the Gondorian Captain discussion has effectively ended, lets re-open this one.
Any suggestion on how to legalise (if any) Mordor Fiend?
I like Tbiesty's "When you play..." proposition, although it just makes him a bigger Goblin Runner.
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I'd say make it an exert for the cost. This could still be problematic with Gothmog's warg, but the loop wouldn't exist and he wouldn't be worthlessly underpowered.
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As the Gondorian Captain discussion has effectively ended, lets re-open this one.
Any suggestion on how to legalise (if any) Mordor Fiend?
I like Tbiesty's "When you play..." proposition, although it just makes him a bigger Goblin Runner.
Actually, worse, since Runner comes down earlier, pays for itself AND adds twilight to a culture that can do SERIOUS damage with 1 extra twilight, while Fiend would only pay for itself, period.
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Worse?
A 9/3 minion that pays for itself, if played first.
A 5/1 minion that adds [1] when not roaming.
With the suggested errata he would at least find a way into swarm decks, but he might break them with his extra vitality.
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Since there is large dependency on GCCG here at TLHH, I understand how making changes to game text, etc. can be more difficult to implement. My playing group, which plays in person, instead of on GCCG, finalized our "unbanning" of these cards on our own (it would have been nice to work together and do this in tandem with TLHH, but we didn't want to wait around for years to make it happen).
In case players on TLHH want to know what we came up with, here it is: Click to download PDF (http://files.me.com/tlbiesterfeld/7atijg)
Feel free to use anything we suggested. If we run into issues, we'll make tweaks as needed and the PDF will get updated.
Therefore, since my playing group figured out what we are going to do, I won't participate as much in House Rules discussions, except provide occasional input. However, I am very excited to work on the Virtual Sets, which should be fun for everybody!
Thanks!
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I am actually less inclined to go with this errata the more I think I about it. He has to come down with no other minion in site and less than [3] to add anything. He's basically garbage this way.
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I am actually less inclined to go with this errata the more I think I about it. He has to come down with no other minion in site and less than [3] to add anything. He's basically garbage this way.
Just to make sure it's clear, with the errata you check if there is 3 or fewer twilight left after you have paid the twilight cost of Mordor Fiend. If you still think that is basically garbage, that's fine. Just wanted to make sure that how it works was understood; this card is usable in certain situations, but not always.
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instead of "when you play" i'd make him have to exert. or maybe even exert twice. it would put an end to any infinite loops but preserve some of the original playability.
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Asking for exerts would be nice. He'd still be a huge weapon for swarm strategies, but I'm not sure [Sauron] has enough of those that one more wouldn't be healthy for deckbuilding purposes.
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Decipher didn't do too well towards the end, but look at Orkish Scout and Orkish Runner. Maybe we could make Mordor Fiend look more like them.
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A stronger Orc Taskmaster?
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in everyone's mind, is this a card that sauron culture NEEDS access to in movie block or ROTK block? does the format suffer from the banning of this card?
my resounding answer: NO. sauron does JUST FINE in movie block without access to this card. it was a FILLER CARD ANYWAY, decipher just didnt realize there was a combo with it! it being banned does not hurt the legitimate play experience of anyone, and it stops the broken combo. if it were unbanned but the other combo card was, people would not play this card regardless. so trying to errata it simply to remove a card from the banned list is silly; its being banned does not harm ANYTHING.