The Last Homely House
Undying Lands => The Straight Road => The Dream Team => Topic started by: Ringbearer on March 28, 2011, 08:41:14 AM
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This threard is for the discussion of Goblin Archer V1.
My start:
[5]Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion - Goblin.
4/3/4
Archer.
When you play Goblin Archer, add [1] for each [Moria] archer (limit 5).
Goblin Archer is strength +1 for each [Moria] archer in play.
A rough setup, open for discussions.
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[4] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Goblin
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Site: 4
Archer
At the start of the archery phase, spot 4 [Moria]
archers to exert a companion for each of these
races you can spot in the fellowship: Dwarf, Elf,
Man, and Wizard.
I don't think [Moria] ever had a card that adopted this idea, I thought it would add some spice.
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One remark, IIRC we cant change the type, culture, twilight cost, power, vitality, signet and site number of cards.
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[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot 3 [Moria] archers, add 1 to the minion archery total.
Response: If a Hobbit takes a wound during the
archery phase, discard this minion to add a burden
(or 2 burdens if the fellowship is at an underground site).
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One remark, IIRC we cant change the type, culture, twilight cost, power, vitality, signet and site number of cards.
I'm pretty sure it's only title, sub-title and lore we can't change.
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[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot another [Moria] archer, add 1 to the minion archery total for each companion over 5.
Archery: Exert this minion twice to make the fellowship archery total -4.
OR
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
Add 1 to the minion archery total for each of these races you can spot in fellowship: Man, Elf, Dwarf.
Add 1 to the minion archery total if you can spot an ally.
OR
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
Each time the ringbearer takes a wound during archery phase, you may discard a [Moria] archer to add a burden.
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So far the additions seem nice, tho i wonder what Moria does with burdens?
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One remark, IIRC we cant change the type, culture, twilight cost, power, vitality, signet and site number of cards.
I'm pretty sure it's only title, sub-title and lore we can't change.
No it's the top of the card we can't change. That's title, sub-title, twilight cost and culture (and picture). Everything in the bottom half of the card can change, including: game text, lore text, collector number (which has to change), strength, vitality, site number/resistance/signet, type and sub-type (though type and sub-type for the time being we will treat as fixed).
A common theme in the suggestions so far is that we want this card to make a [Moria] archer theme viable. BUT, watch out because the card is non-unique! This is going to be the biggest constraint on power level and ability.
Another theme that almost always comes up in discussions about the [Moria] culture is [Moria] corruption (made tantalising by cards like Must Do Without Hope). I'd like to see that.
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 9
Vitality: 2
Site: 4
Archer.
Archery: Exert this minion to add a burden; it does not add to the minion archery total.
Sort of like an inverse Greenleaf...?
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This card is horrible. It has little use in Moria, more a nice splash minion in the nazgul culture. 4 of these can mean 8 burdens.
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A viable [Moria] corruption strategy is always going to be multi-culture. They don't have enough cards, never mind corruption cards, to be viable by themselves.
[Moria] would need a large expansion to open more strategies.
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Fair enough! What other [Moria] themes and sub-themes have gone unnoticed in decks? (Obviously archery is the most obvious for a guy called "Goblin Archer", but it's possible we could combine them).
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Goblin Spear, Lost to the Goblins and Must Do Without Hope are the current [Moria] burden strategies
They have a slight assignment strategy with Frenzy and The End Comes
I like the idea behind Throw Yourself in Next Time, targeting [Shire] as the most uncomfortable in the goblin realm. Targeting [Shire] restricts card usage though.
Everyone knows [Moria] for twilight generation and discard playing. If we want to open up new strategies, we will have to (V) about 10 more cards.
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I'm gonna think-rant like I did in Gimli's topic.
Goblin Archer is a card from set one, meaning it introduced the concept of [Moria] archers to the game. That being said, I think the card should mess with [Moria] archers and nothing more. So, from a deckbuilding standpoint, what is the problem with this card?
1- It costs too much;
2- It's effect is not good enough for the cost.
So, WHY are those things a problem?
1- Because most [Moria] minions tend to cost a lot less for better effects (however, BECAUSE of this, cost shouldn't be a problem, given a good enough effect);
2- Most [Moria] archer decks do not care for being slaughtered AFTER they are tallied for the Shadow archery total.
What are [Moria] archers deckbuilding problems?
1- The deck is entirely dependent on Brown Lands to work in Fellowship Block, and not very good outside the block where it does not exist;
2- Direct wounding makes the strategy suck (even in Fellowship Block, with TWO powerful Greenleaf effects).
3- The deck needs to deal A LOT of wounds, and it tends to not work on its own.
So, how do you address this issues?
Seems pretty simple:
[5] Goblin Archer (V) [Moria]
Minion • Goblin
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
For each other [Moria] archer you can spot, the Shadow archery total is +1.
You make him a walking Brown Lands, so he demands wounding be directed at him, letting the rest through, or he makes things wild. Might prove too powerful, but at that cost, I highly doubt there will be more than 1 down at any given time. Still, recursion might prove annoying, so he might warrant a "may not be played from the discard pile" clause. Or:
[5] Goblin Archer (V) [Moria]
Minion • Goblin
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
When you play this minion, you may spot an opponent's site to replace it with your site of the same number.
[Moria] archers cannot take wounds, except during the skirmish phase.
You force Brownlands and, outside Fellowship block, prevent some damage to force arrows through. If this proves too powerful, you can make wound-prevention a response action.
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I like your second one most, FM. How about something like:
[5] Goblin Archer (V) [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While the fellowship is at an underground site, your [Moria] archer minions cannot take wounds (except during skirmish phases).
Solves the problem of non-uniqueness by having no effect for more of them out. And he could have some other ability if the power level needed to be pushed up.
Thran
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What about giving him an ability that would punish people for using archery.
Goblin Archer
Minion • [Moria] Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot another [Moria] archer,
The Minion archery total is +x where x is the fellowship archery total
Response: If the RB takes a wound during the
archery phase, discard this minion to wound a companion (or 2 companions if you can spot 6 or more).
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Extending that, could he be a walking Cave Troll's Chain?
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Not really, he'd punish your strategy, the FP player would simply chose to skip, slaughter all other minions and move. I think he could have Thran's text with the ability to pull a site I suggested, so you can force Brown Lands in Fellowship Block and also force underground sites in other strategies, so you can actually choose to prevent damage (and he'd be useful even in open, btw) AND can be played as a splash minion in strategies that need underground sites. I don't think burdens should be even mentioned on this card, though.
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Good point. If he was a walking Chain, then he wouldn't support archery strategies.
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what if we toke out the ability for the FP to skip the archery and put as a response " each time this character takes an archery wound you may wound an archer companion". That way it wouldn't hurt your archery.
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I actually rather like the idea of something involving burdens. It might make Lost To the Goblins a little more popular and an ability that is worth of the [5] wouldn't be too tough at all.
I may throw out an idea or two in the next few days, but I just want to see what other people come up with for now. I will say that, as of right now this one (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php/topic,6759.msg68578.html#msg68578) is my favorite one. I might even suggest "exert this minion twice" instead of "discard" though.
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Archer.
Each time the ringbearer takes a wound during archery phase, you may discard a [Moria] archer to add a burden.
This one, by the way, would definitely need cultural enforcement...maybe, "While you can spot another [Moria] archer...
-wtk
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i definitely agree with you ket about the burden idea. i've always loved the idea of moria corruption. its one of the clearest places in the films where we see the ring-bearer singled out and worn down. singled out etc.
anyways, i don't agree that that particular card would need any more cultural reinforcement than already in place. first off, its dependent on your opponent placing archery wounds on the RB, and after that, you have to discard a [moria] archer for the burden effect. altogether, if you added any MORE hoops to jump through, nobody would play it.
i like the burden tip you guys are taking with this, keep up the good work!
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I also agree about involving burdens. Continuing to tweak this version (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php/topic,6759.msg68578.html#msg68578) based on input...
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot another [Moria] archer,
no player may use archery special abilities.
Response: If a Hobbit takes a wound during the
archery phase, exert this minion twice to add a burden
(or 2 burdens if the fellowship is at an underground site).
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[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
Archery: Spot 3 [Moria] archers and exert this minion twice to make the minion archery total +1 for each burden you can spot (limit +4),
this is an idea for using burdens to aid the archery strategy. rather than using archery to aid the burden strategy. i think its fairly balanced, it requires playing 3 moria archers, 2 exerts, and is dependent on how well your opponent build their deck.
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So when I think about the character, he is a high-cost minion so he should do something interesting or worthy of that high cost. The [6] spot would probably be taken up by Moria Archery Troop (and maybe a Shotgun Enquea or two) and the rest of the cards would be low cost, so this guy would probably have one of those abilities where, coupled with the cost, you'd splash two in the deck.
The power-level of this can be argued, so just roll with the theme I'm aiming for.
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • [Moria] Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
Archery: Spot another [Moria] Archer minion and exert this minion to name a race. Until the regroup phase, that race cannot take wounds during the archery phase. The Free Peoples player can add 2 burdens to prevent this.
It can be avoided with a shot from Greenleaf or Aragorn's Bow, or other pre-skirmish wounding cards. It kind of has the Haradrim Marksman feel which I thought was kind of neat. And he's a guy who is kind of hit or miss in terms of value.
Thoughts?
-wtk
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He might be too degenerate considering the Two Towers environment, where single-culture decks were finally made possible without much suffering, but your Ring-bearer was STILL Frodo and/or Sam (mid-game), so it gets you too many free wins, I think (I, for one, would play 4 of him as is, free wins are nothing to sneeze at). I don't think this card should adress the [Moria] corruption thing, I think we would need other cards for that (events and conditions, mainly), and I also took in consideration what have been said about needing TOO MUCH cards to make [Moria] corruption possible. I don't think every culture has to be able to do everything, and Moria can play beatdown, swarms and archery already, so I'm fine with it NOT being able to play corruption. Then again, the culture DOES have some cards that add burdens, and it would be a waste to simply let those cards go unplayed, so I think that, at most, it should do something WITH burdens (even if counterintuitive to a corruption strategy).
Perhaps it could be a "free win" card with high cost?
[5] Goblin Archer (V) [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
Archery: Remove 2-3 burdens and spot another [Moria] archer to name a race. Until the regroup phase, that race cannot take wounds during the archery phase.
It's still a "free-win" card sometimes, but it comes at a high cost, has to mainly be played into [Moria] archers (I first though about leaving the exertion cost in lieu of the spotting requirement, so the ability could be used twice at a REALLY STEEP cost, but decided against it so as not to let him become an easy splash minion), will not work if you don't jump through some hoops (at least, not consistently enough to make it annoying and warrant a 4-of inclusion right off the bat), and even if you DON'T want to jump through hoops, you can still play 1-2 for good measure, since he exerts for Threat of the Unknown while forwarding your strategy when NOT being a free-win card or a pain-in-the-#$&*@! card (rather than just exerting for Threat while doing nothing worthwhile), AND he CAN be such a card with minimal work at least once in a given game, which is still good enough for a 2-of with no work involved in making it work, and might be awesome as a 3/4-of with a LITTLE work involved (mainly, Must Do Without Hope and Goblin Spear, which are really not effort at all in FotR and little effort outside of it).
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I'm not sure a card with such high variance is the best choice for something designed to push any strategy into the playable zone. Yes sometimes it will win you the game (especially if they're running The Ruling Ring and ilk), but other times it will do essentially nothing. I wouldn't want to base my [Moria] archery deck around a card like that.
If we're going for using corruption in the subtlest way, then the mm's most recent version (archery total +1 for each burden) fits the bill best.
Thran
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But the idea is not basing your strategy on the card, this is something we have to keep in mind. V cards are not supposed to be all 4-of staples or build-around-me cards, they are designed mainly to keep the game fresh by giving it some new toys to work with, while salvaging a card deemed nearly unplayable or heavily underplayed. Upping the archery count based on burdens in mm's suggestion is nice, but as is, it's too hard to pull off as a single wound tossed in your math messes it up something fierce. It would neew some reworking. I liked the idea to exchange burdens for an ability, though, because it "kind" of adresses decks that abuse burdens for benefits, which they can do freely, as [Moria] won't do squat with burdens. MM's suggestion also adresses this issue, but depending on what those burdens are doing, a few arrows won't suffice. A free win might. At least, it could send a message to such decks, and all of a sudden, a simple upgrade (from a no-of minion to a 1/2-of minion, for instance) in an otherwise forgotten strategy can reshape a metagame, even if you do not base your whole deck on it. Actually, just the THREAT of it can reshape the meta. It might not do so efficiently or consistently, since most such decks either loop during the Fellowship phase or add burdens in skirmish/regroup, but it can still tackle those that use maneuver rings, for instance, and he's not meant to be a hoser anyway, it's just a bonus.
PS: Also, thinking about it again, the card ends up forcing [Moria] corruption into the light, since if you can nail a single-culture deck, you end up forcing Frodo to wear the Ring to avoid dying, peppering him with burdens. Nice. It could warrant some Lost to the Goblins, after all. :D
PPS: This all being said, I also think mm's card is a fine choice, it just needs some revamping, because right now, it still doesn't adress the problems posed to the deck, being hosed by the same cards/strategies/inherent problems.
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As an aside note, this card seems to be going pretty fast underway, since we have basically narrowed down what it might adress, so unless some crazy new reasoning appears from someone, we are set in a direction to work with, so I'd suggest already starting discussion on the next card, to keep the forum busy and spike interest again (it's been really slow lately). Also, I think that rather than posting cards in the dark, people should at least explain the reasoning behind it (seriously, even if the reasoning is it "being awesome"). I'd also urge people to not forget about the other topics and simply focus on the new one, the Ring topic has been pretty much dead for DAYS, I mean, where are our playtesters? What did they infer? How's that going? Why is no one looking at Gimlis anymore? See, this is the issue I talked about. If it moves slow, people lose interest and stop posting. If it moves fast, people only care for the new topic. Either way, the net result is "Process=DEAD", so I'd suggest we gather playtesters throughout the forum, specially those that can do it consistently (unlike me, for instance :( ), so we can set deadline's to playtesting. I'd suggest running a gauntlet. Simply get a format, single out the 4-5 most popular strategies, get the best players we can to run each of those gauntlet decks, and let the playtesters go crazy with deckbuilding for the format. Then, check the results. This can be as simple as 2 games against each gauntlet deck for each playtester. Move to the next format. Lather, rinse, repeat. This shows the power level of the card, and if it has merit and some uses (for instance, a free peoples cards does not need to win the game for you by running to 9, it can soemtimes help your shadow side indirectly to set up a kill, and this is still fine if it's not coincidental or accidental - and fun when it is). Also, of course, playtesters should playtest the SAME card, but DIFFERENT decks. THEN, they could test ANOTHER card. Done properly, the whole process could be done in 1-2 weeks.
Last, Thranduil said something that raised an alarm in my head, and I think we should move to non-character cards (actually, if at all possible, specifically to events), so we can work on the concept of cards that simply "add value", people are too concerned in making build-around-me cards (and I count myself among these people).
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maybe my version would better fit what we're going for, and better fit the goblin archer feel if it was more along the lines of this:
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot 3 [Moria] archers the minion archery total +1 for each burden you can spot (limit +3),
This removes the archery special ability, which no other goblin archer has, and replaces it with a blanket text. this still requires playing 3 archers and not losing them to greenleaf gorn's bow etc...
the limit prevents things from getting too out of hand.
i like the simplicity of burdens to archery as opposed to more complex special abilities. i mean, seriously, look at all the goblin archers, they are all very simple and straightforward. adding a little more complexity and strategy by linking them with burdens is exciting, and could definitely spark some new deck ideas.
as it stands FM, your card is going to be splashed into EVERY archery deck imaginable. just to make sure your opponent doesn't abuse those burdens. you at least need to make it spot ANOTHER moria archer. self spotting makes it too versatile.
thats my thoughts.
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But the idea is not basing your strategy on the card, this is something we have to keep in mind. V cards are not supposed to be all 4-of staples or build-around-me cards, they are designed mainly to keep the game fresh by giving it some new toys to work with, while salvaging a card deemed nearly unplayable or heavily underplayed. Upping the archery count based on burdens in mm's suggestion is nice, but as is, it's too hard to pull off as a single wound tossed in your math messes it up something fierce. It would neew some reworking. I liked the idea to exchange burdens for an ability, though, because it "kind" of adresses decks that abuse burdens for benefits, which they can do freely, as [Moria] won't do squat with burdens. MM's suggestion also adresses this issue, but depending on what those burdens are doing, a few arrows won't suffice. A free win might. At least, it could send a message to such decks, and all of a sudden, a simple upgrade (from a no-of minion to a 1/2-of minion, for instance) in an otherwise forgotten strategy can reshape a metagame, even if you do not base your whole deck on it. Actually, just the THREAT of it can reshape the meta. It might not do so efficiently or consistently, since most such decks either loop during the Fellowship phase or add burdens in skirmish/regroup, but it can still tackle those that use maneuver rings, for instance, and he's not meant to be a hoser anyway, it's just a bonus.
You're right, but on the other hand the easiest and most obvious way to produce a new viable strategy is to make a build-around-me card. There are, of course, arguments both ways, and it would depend on what strategy we are trying to promote and how much tech there is for it already. I would argue that there is hardly any tech for either [Moria] corruption or [Moria] archery, so it seems to me that a build-around would be a sensible choice here. (Gimli doesn't have to do this, by the way, because tales actually already have a fair bit of tech which is why a lot of the options for Gimli we were looking for were facilitators rather than bombs).
PPS: This all being said, I also think mm's card is a fine choice, it just needs some revamping, because right now, it still doesn't adress the problems posed to the deck, being hosed by the same cards/strategies/inherent problems.
Also agreed. The card needs to protect the strategy, specifically by helping them against direct wounding.
As an aside note, this card seems to be going pretty fast underway, since we have basically narrowed down what it might adress, so unless some crazy new reasoning appears from someone, we are set in a direction to work with, so I'd suggest already starting discussion on the next card, to keep the forum busy and spike interest again (it's been really slow lately). Also, I think that rather than posting cards in the dark, people should at least explain the reasoning behind it (seriously, even if the reasoning is it "being awesome"). I'd also urge people to not forget about the other topics and simply focus on the new one, the Ring topic has been pretty much dead for DAYS, I mean, where are our playtesters? What did they infer? How's that going? Why is no one looking at Gimlis anymore? See, this is the issue I talked about. If it moves slow, people lose interest and stop posting. If it moves fast, people only care for the new topic. Either way, the net result is "Process=DEAD", so I'd suggest we gather playtesters throughout the forum, specially those that can do it consistently (unlike me, for instance :( ), so we can set deadline's to playtesting. I'd suggest running a gauntlet. Simply get a format, single out the 4-5 most popular strategies, get the best players we can to run each of those gauntlet decks, and let the playtesters go crazy with deckbuilding for the format. Then, check the results. This can be as simple as 2 games against each gauntlet deck for each playtester. Move to the next format. Lather, rinse, repeat. This shows the power level of the card, and if it has merit and some uses (for instance, a free peoples cards does not need to win the game for you by running to 9, it can soemtimes help your shadow side indirectly to set up a kill, and this is still fine if it's not coincidental or accidental - and fun when it is). Also, of course, playtesters should playtest the SAME card, but DIFFERENT decks. THEN, they could test ANOTHER card. Done properly, the whole process could be done in 1-2 weeks.
You make some good points. Obviously the playtesting needs doing. We can design as many cards as we like in as short or as long a time-frame as we like, but at the end of the day all of that means absolutely nothing unless they are playtested. I also agree with your method of playtesting. So I suppose our goal now is to work out how to promote playtesting so that it actually happens.
That said, I do think that while your concerns about too fast or too slow are right on the mark, I think 1-2 weeks is rushing it, and I would prefer to see some more on this card before we move on. I do, however, think we should set some deadlines for playtesting and design submission.
Last, Thranduil said something that raised an alarm in my head, and I think we should move to non-character cards (actually, if at all possible, specifically to events), so we can work on the concept of cards that simply "add value", people are too concerned in making build-around-me cards (and I count myself among these people).
I'm agreeing again! We should, after this, look at some non-character cards, though I think starting with characters was a great way to warm up because they are often the easiest and most interesting cards to design.
I have not been able to put a lot of thought into the designs for these cards recently, as I'm sure you can see by the generally low quality of my submissions so far, but I shall try to in the next few days and come back with some more thoughts.
Thran
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as it stands FM, your card is going to be splashed into EVERY archery deck imaginable. just to make sure your opponent doesn't abuse those burdens. you at least need to make it spot ANOTHER moria archer. self spotting makes it too versatile.
thats my thoughts.
Yes, that was a mistake, it was supposed to read like that. I'm changing it.
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Since it was requested to give a few reasonings behind a suggested card, here you go:
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot another [Moria] archer,
no player may use archery special abilities.
Response: If a Hobbit takes a wound during the
archery phase, exert this minion twice to add a burden
(or 2 burdens if the fellowship is at an underground site).
I think this one is a perfect fit for Moria and well-balanced for its twilight cost of 5.
1) It's a nod to the original Goblin Archer, but with a more useful means of protection from fellowship archery (i.e. protection from directed archery).
2) It enables the wounds from Moria archery to be more effective, by forcing the Free People's player to risk enabling Moria corruption if wounds are just soaked up by the hobbits.
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What about a card that punishes you for using Frodo to soak up all your archery wounds? And maybe has some sort of counter-attack toward directed archery?
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot a [Moria] archer, this minion's twilight cost is -1 for each wound on the Ring-bearer.
Response: If the Free People's player uses an archery special ability, exert Goblin Archer twice and spot another [Moria] archer to wound a companion (except the Ring-bearer).
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IMO some of these ideas make the Goblin Archer too powerful, given his non-uniqueness, the ease of recursion, and the twilight generation in the Moria culture. For example, if Brown Lands is a kill site, just imagine walking into four of those at once. Also, 6 twilight for 2 archery is the Moria Archer Troop level, and I don't think that should be overshadowed too easily.
A powerful effect that might not kick in until the late game also comes at minimal cost to Moria. Discard him with They Are Coming, and then forget about him until the moment he's needed. Not much dedication in comparison to something like Southron Archer, who might need the help of Dwarf of Erebor to pull it off.
I like the response ability on this one:
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot another [Moria] archer,
no player may use archery special abilities.
Response: If a Hobbit takes a wound during the
archery phase, exert this minion twice to add a burden
(or 2 burdens if the fellowship is at an underground site).
My thinking is that it punishes the bouncing Hobbits without being a narrow counter to them, while also being fair to an almost-destroyed fellowship. If the Ring-bearer is forced to use the Ring to convert wounds to burdens, the ability here won't double dip on that, or simply end the game. It seems too good against a Hobbit deck, though.
Stopping archery special abilities might also be too good for Moria archery, given that it can produce a swarm as well.
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I like the response ability on this one:
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
While you can spot another [Moria] archer,
no player may use archery special abilities.
Response: If a Hobbit takes a wound during the
archery phase, exert this minion twice to add a burden
(or 2 burdens if the fellowship is at an underground site).
My thinking is that it punishes the bouncing Hobbits without being a narrow counter to them, while also being fair to an almost-destroyed fellowship. If the Ring-bearer is forced to use the Ring to convert wounds to burdens, the ability here won't double dip on that, or simply end the game. It seems too good against a Hobbit deck, though.
Stopping archery special abilities might also be too good for Moria archery, given that it can produce a swarm as well.
If there is worry about aiding swarm too much, how about this for a tweak:
[5] Goblin Archer [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Archer.
To play, spot a [Moria] archer.
While you cannot spot more minions than companions,
no player may use archery special abilities.
Response: If a Hobbit takes a wound during the
archery phase, exert this minion twice to add a burden
(or 2 burdens if the fellowship is at an underground site).
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I'm pretty satisfied with what we have here. What do you say we open up a discussion for the next card?
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I'm pretty satisfied with what we have here. What do you say we open up a discussion for the next card?
Sounds great to me.
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Topic split!