The Last Homely House
General => Wiki Project => Topic started by: TelTura on April 12, 2014, 09:17:41 PM
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So I've spent the day in a flurry of article writing, and while I have no delusions of thinking I'll keep this up, I figured I'd link to some pages I've added to get some feedback. If there are more reference articles like the ones I've written today, I imagine we'd have more activity (and thus more writing) in the wiki itself.
I feel like preserving the information that we all take for granted is of paramount importance, even if (perhaps especially if) the community slips further into a coma.
Without further ado:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/comprehensive_rules_4-0 (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/comprehensive_rules_4-0)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/current_rulings_document (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/current_rulings_document)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/signet (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/signet)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/vitality (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/vitality)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/fellowship_of_the_ring (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/fellowship_of_the_ring)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/orc_culture (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/orc_culture)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/men_culture (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/men_culture)
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/uruk-hai_culture (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/uruk-hai_culture)
I'm hopeless at offering commentary on cards after movie block, so I will definitely need help explaining the finer points of those cultures and card strategies common in Standard. I also was never a part of any sort of tournament setting either, so any historical perspective would be great (such as on the FotR page).
I also put a coding cheat sheet together, since the syntax page has mysteriously vanished:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/code_snippets (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/code_snippets)
thoughts, questions, critiques, if you please.
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More articles:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/fellowship_of_the_ring
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rarity
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/strength
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/vitality
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/heal
With some of these, I have begun to put comprehensive indices at the bottom of the articles, so far including vitality, strength, heal, and signet. For instance, signet has two sections; one listing all the characters that hold a particular signet, and another for all the cards that affect a particular signet. Vitality has two sections, one for cards that add vitality and another for cards that reduce it.
The strength article got a bit ridiculous; as it turns out, about 1/3 of the cards in the entire game affect strength one way or another; ~100 that remove strength and ~900 that increase it. I left the massive list in regardless, as I feel that that kind of indexing is a good direction to be going in; maybe for attributes it's not a big concern, but being able to see at a glance all of the, say, Isengard cards that have actions that heal can be a valuable resource if you're looking for a particular type of card to round out a particular strategy.
I have a python script that analyzes the card list and spits out formatted lists like these according to whatever parameters I want. The analysis is pretty powerful so long as I know the wording to look for, so if there's a particular type of list resource you've always wanted (cards spotting elves? cards that exert uruk-hai? cards that intercept an action and perform another "instead"?), let me know and I'll work on that article next.
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More:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/action
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/fortification
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/balrog - revamped
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/raceless
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/classless
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/armor
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/brooch
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/box
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/cloak
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/gauntlets
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/hand_weapon
All of the above except for "action" include a card index.
I do see that at least a few of you are reading these updates, and I just want you all to be aware that every little bit helps. My personal plan is to work my way through all the keywords, then cultures and sets, and finally start setting up pages for general strategies and specific deck lists and explanations (which will essentially be lifted straight from these forums, to be honest).
If you see any little details that need fixed, or any explanation that is inadequate, or some concept that's not getting any limelight, feel free to make the page or make the change. If anyone has any questions over how to edit, let me know and I'll help you out.
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Perhaps an additional strategy you could mention on The Balrog page is the use of Foul Things to play from your discard pile, or the use of Dark Places to throw conditional pumps its way for every copy you have in your support area. I suppose this ^ suggestion purely depends on how in-depth you want to go with each page, but whenever I play a deck with some Balrogs, I try and use the above cards as often as possible.
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That kind of thing is exactly what I'm talking about; it's been years since I've played decks myself and so card strategies like that elude me; all I can do is use my scripts to search cards for specific words. As to the question of detail, eventually we want every one of these articles (and every one of the card pages) to be as exhaustive as possible, your one-stop-shop for every strategy you might use a particular card for.
Bulbapedia/Smogen Pokedex together do for pokemon what I think the our wiki should do for LotR-TCG. If you look at the Bulbapedia entry for Feraligatr (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Feraligatr) you see every piece of technical information you could possibly ever want; maximum stats, level info, appearances in anime and manga, in-game info, alternate languages, everything that can be gleamed from a mechanical perspective. That kind of stuff I can produce; it's just a matter of analyzing the cards to a certain extent and interpreting the data properly.
However, jump over to the Smogon Pokedex entry for Feraligatr (http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/feraligatr) and you see an exhaustive strategical analysis; the topmost line of tabs shows the different generations and the middle tabs show the different tournament formats within those generations, and on each tab you have a common build list with a discussion of its strengths and weaknesses, common counters, common combos, and other such info. That's definitely the sort of thing I need help with, and info like yours is exactly the sort of thing we'd include. You can add the info yourself onto that page, or if you don't I'll add it myself later once I jump on again, but don't be afraid to add it yourself, even if it doesn't mesh well with the rest of the article. I can edit things just fine, if I find someone's edit that doesn't flow well I won't delete it, I'll just reword it, but I need the info before I can even do that.
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Worked mostly on the wiki organization lately. Renamed a few articles, moved things around, created a bunch of easily-referenced tables and tried to make the index all-inclusive, but I'm aware that there's still several concepts not listed there.
Articles created:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/cloak
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/palantir
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/card_layout
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/threat
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/tokens
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/twilight_tokens
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/culture_tokens
I also removed the list of cards that modify Strength and put them in their own article, linked to in the strength article (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/strength).
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rulebooks now contains corrected links, some to my personal dropbox since there is a 1MB limit on uploads that only Kralik can override. It also includes more rulebooks than it did before, that I was able to find archived around the web.
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/index has more tables than it did before, and is more exhaustive over what it covers, though there are still holes here and there. This is the best place to begin if you're looking to contribute; either tackle one of the red links or edit a link that only has a quote from the comprehensive rules.
If you're looking for articles to use as a standard, I have found that Hardy Garrison (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lotr10033) easily has the best card article, and Vitality (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/vitality) is probably one of the more exhaustive mechanics articles, but none of the mechanics articles are anywhere near the level they eventually should be. Look to these two as examples if you dive in yourself, and remember to not worry about the card indices; I can handle those with the click of a button.
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http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/draw
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rule_of_4
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wound
Small batch but useful. It was already pointed out to me that I had missed Ottar and Abandoning Reason for Madness in the draw/rule of 4 lists, so that underlines the fact that I can always use help proofreading. If you're aware of a card that is not in these lists, or any of the lists in the other articles, feel free to add it, or to let me know.
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http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rulebooks was completely rewritten due to new information, specifically information that I was able to find within the newly located comprehensive rules v. 1.0 and the original proto-CRD. With this find, we are only missing 4 rulebooks and maybe a few CRDs that may have slipped the cracks (though those are less important).
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http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/starter_pack created. It now holds a list of every single starter deck ever created, warts and all. If you have any comments about the way the decks were listed, please let me know, as I will be using what's on this page as a basis for how other decks are listed in the future.
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New articles:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/home_site
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/collectors_info
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/game_text
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lore
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/site_arrow
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lord_of_the_rings_online
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/ldc_file_format_specification
That last one is only marginally useful for most people, but what the heck.
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new articles:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/dck_file_format
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/dek_file_format
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/gccg_file_format
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/zdl_file_format
The above are all explanations of various file formats used by different game clients/decklist builders.
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wiki_style
This is a meta article designed to help new editors understand some of the conventions used in the wiki so far.
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This is some great work, TelTura! There's a lot of very basic pages missing so it's great to see someone writing so many articles.
I'd like to contribute, though I need to get to 25 posts first. I'm interesting in filling out some basic strategy for prominent cards. Even some of the most iconic cards that require combos like Goblin Armory don't have anything on them, and that's a shame.
Maybe we could try to resolve some of the "public good problem" by doing some kind of writing pledge drive. Like a group pledges to all write or improve five articles each.
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We've tried things similar to that in the past...the central leadership of the forums is awol, so it's literally all up to the lay membership. Only thing to do is try and do some and stick to it.
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You're doing really good work here. I edited a couple of articles tonight to add subtler details that weren't particularly publicized, like the possibility for multiple foils in a pack.
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Excellent! It has been forever since someone besides myself has made an edit not related to gemp, and I have to say it's nice to see that someone's actually reading the stuff I put up!
I think most of the changes you made were justifiable (in a lot of cases they added info that I simply didn't have), but in some cases I think we have a conflict of info here. So, we'll just need to duke it out in here to get our sources in order. I'm going to go edit-by-edit in this topic, since there's no wiki talk page that I'm aware of within the wiki itself.
I'll start with http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rarity . I'm using the compare feature; you can follow along by following this link here (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rarity?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1397807337&rev2%5B1%5D=1402813871&difftype=sidebyside).
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First three edits are solid. I've been meaning to write more detail about foils myself, since I found a starter rulebook paragraph that actually listed the exact chances of each type of foil (1 in X for common foil, 1 in Y for uncommon, etc), which only averages out to the 1 in 6 figure that everyone refers to.
Out of curiosity, do you have a link to the ebay auction (at least, I assume it was ebay) where 0P127 sold for that much? That kind of thing would be good to link as a reference.
These were distributed in 18-card booster packs composed of 2 random rares from //Reflections// and 16 random cards from all previous sets (this was a way for Decipher to dump some of their overstock).
Now, I can't seem to find where I pulled my info from, but I imagine if you edited this then you've got solid info. Just wanted to clarify: are you getting that from having opened boosters yourself, or from information from elsewhere? Not challenging you, just want to be aware of the source.
Starting with the //Shadows// set, alternate versions of select cards were reprinted as the "Legends" series, which served to decrease the number of cards available to collectors because the parallel foil sets were discontinued. Legends-series cards were always foil, and marked with the RF !rarity to differentiate them from their non-Legends counterpart.
(your changes in red, just like it's shown in the comparison).
I think this is one part where my original didn't express itself properly. Where it said "increase the number of cards available to collectors", I had originally meant the total number of numbered cards to collect, as in, collectors now had a larger checklist before their collection was "complete". However, I can see how that could have been taken in the exact opposite meaning (probably because of the word "available"), as your edit maintains.
I would therefore propose something like this (edits in green to mean proposed but not pushed changes):
Starting with the //Shadows// set, alternate versions of select cards were reprinted as the "Legends" series meant to represent particularly popular cards or concepts. This increased the total number of cards to collect while at the same time making these additions quite rare, as eventually during the set's lifetime these alternate cards would be discontinued. Legends-series cards were always foil, and marked with the RF rarity to differentiate them from their non-Legends counterpart.
Thoughts? The remaining edits on that page are all solid (formatting excepted, but I've already fixed that).
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Next with http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/starter_pack , compare here (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/starter_pack?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1398711975&rev2%5B1%5D=&difftype=sidebyside).
First edit's solid.
The rest is mostly solid (I liked the bit about printing, I had never even thought about that), but I do want to bring up these lines:
To offset the fact that veteran players would not need the starter packs, Decipher included cards that could only be found in starters inside most boxes.
Unlike other starter sets, Deluxe starters did not include starter-only cards.
At first I thought you were referring to the S rarity cards in Shadows/Black Rider, but that second line means this is referring to Movie block as well (since that's when the deluxe starters existed). I didn't think this was the case during Movie block, and I'm 80% certain that I've received The One Ring, The Ruling Ring in a booster before (the other cards aren't as prominent for me to recall whether or not I ever received one in a booster). Do we have any other info confirming this? I mean, it makes sense, I've just literally never heard it before.
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Thanks again for your input! It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy to have more than just me looking into all this.
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Cool! To make the responses:
*0P127 is discussed here on the boards. Here's the thread from hawkeyespf: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,354.0.html
*I opened a lot of reflections packs and know there were 2 R/R+. I also just bought a pack on GEMP and got two cards from set 9. Also, here's an online page referring to "two brand-new game play cards" http://www.trollandtoad.com/p115092.html
*I'm happy with the green changes about Masterworks.
*For starter packs, starter packs/decks had P-rarity cards in sets 1-10. For instance, Fellowship had 1P364 Gandalf, the Grey Wizard and 1P365 Aragorn, King in Exile. Ents of Fangorn had 6P121 and 6P122. If you look at the card lists for each set, you'll see the P cards at the end. That's what I meant - the non-foil versions of those cards only came in starter packs. Starting with set 11, P rarity became S because there were more starter-only cards.
The deluxe box sets were an exception, because if you look at the card lists for those decks, they include no P cards.
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Ah, I see. Hurr durr, I knew about the P-rarity cards, I thought you were referring to more than just that, like Gimli, Dwarf of Erebor or something. I'll edit the part in question to make that bit more clear, and add a reference to 0P127's value later.
Thanks for the rest of your info! It really is a help.
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I'm going to be writing articles for individual cards, ideally on a daily basis, so I'll reference them here in case anyone's interested in reading and giving feedback.
For starters, I've done Saruman, Keeper of Isengard and Saruman, Servant of the Eye.
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I just read both articles. Saruman SotE can also be used to protect Isengard Smith from tank skirmishers (and Isengard Warrior protects from archery), so wrote about that in the first paragraph.
EDIT: Added Arwen Queen of Elves and Men to the "Weak versus" list of Saruman SotE. Also added the combo of Unknown Perils + [4] in Strength of Spirit (in "Strong versus... Wounds") and other card combos (TMAYOD and Boromir SoD in "Strong versus... Beatdown").
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Thank you for the extra detail, the more people read and add to these card strategies, the better. Today I did Strength of Spirit. I may start doing smaller articles in groups, as it feels like a waste of a post otherwise.
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Ha, it's not a waste, and if it prevents burnout so much the better. Post whatever you feel comfortable with.
I added a line to Strength of Spirit referencing Intimidate, to compare/contrast.
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Thanks :) Today I did Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk.
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Good article, made some minor formatting edits. In particular note that your "Culture Hate" bullet point auto-linked both to the Culture page and to the Hate card, which wasn't your intent. In situations like that, you can filter out these unwanted auto-links by putting a ! immediately in front of the word. In this case, I edited the line to:
* !!Culture !!Hate (Two Towers onwards)
This is a pain with some articles, such as set or even ring (if you look back on some of the one ring articles you've made, they're all minefields of the phrase "The One !!Ring").
(Fun fact, this also works on the forum itself. I actually had to type two ! to make sure it wasn't filtered out.)
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Thanks for the corrections, I've also had trouble when I talk about cards like The Prancing Pony it links to the Expanded version rather than the Fellowship version, is there a way to fix this?
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In this case, you'd just have to link manually, like this:
[ [lotr01324|The !Prancing Pony]]
(without the initial space between the brackets. The forum unfortunately also parses this format, making any code seemingly impossible to actually post about without jumping through hoops, lol)
The Wiki Style (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wiki_style) and Code Snippets (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/code_snippets) pages have other tips and tricks about this sort of thing.
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In respect of Gandalf FotS, added "Multirace !Hate" in the "Weak versus" list, and the only 3 examples of such Shadow cards I found: Massing in the East, One of You Must Do This and Old Differences.
Also changed "!Culture !Hate" to "Multiculture !Hate", and added in that line "and !hate to a specific !culture or !race", because FotS decks are also vulnerable to cards like Gleaming in the Snow, Through the Misty Mountains, The Long Dark, Moria Scout...
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Thanks for the help and improvements. I did Sting, Throne of Isengard and Aragorn, Heir to the White City today.
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Wrote article for Gandalf, The Grey Wizard. I do think this Gandalf is weaker than the other two, but I always try to write as much positive stuff as I can, rather than just recommend a different card.
EDIT: Did Gimli's Helm as well.
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Expanded the strategy article and added strengths and weaknesses for Greatest Kingdom of my people.
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Arwen, Daughter of Elrond. I'm getting a lot of red error messages on that page, and some others, saying things like "unable to load cache" - Can anybody else see these?
EDIT: Wrote article for Double Shot as well.
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Yes, the errors are a result of hard drive space running low on Kralik's server, so things such as the recent changes files error out when trying to modify them. There haven't been any issues yet with articles...but I imagine at some point they'll come. Hopefully Kralik will check his email at some point before it becomes a real issue.
Good work on the articles; concise and complete.
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Ah okay. Glad it's not just my pc then. Did Lord of Moria and Asfaloth today, and also added some more info to The Balrog, Durin's Bane.
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Wrote article for Demon of Might. I was comparing Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device with Staff of Saruman, Fallen Istar's Stave, as I'm planning to write articles for them soon. I have wondered though, FIS says it plays on a Wizard, rather than Saruman exclusively. However, the Deceived Wizards all say they can't bear cards. So is there any benefit to playing this on Gandalf or Radagast? In terms of !raw stats, it's actually better than their staffs, which leaves me somewhat confused :-?
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This seems like one of those things that was done for flavor--note that Wizard Staff also plays on a Wizard, and both staves in question were taken by their opponent in the movies (well, in the books, anyway). I'd bet that the developers wanted to introduce some sort of staff-stealing element that just didn't pan out both times, and so we're left with vague wording that doesn't make sense years later.
The only possible trick I can think of is playing FIS on an exhausted Radagast or Gandalf, playing something that forces an exertion during the shadow or maneuver phase, then use Strange-looking Men to transfer the staff and kill the fellowship wizard. The individual steps could be prevented, but the actual death is pretty much uncounterable.
EDIT: or even the text on the staff itself; just keep saruman alive until regroup while the staff is on an exhausted fellowship wizard, and you can discard it that way.
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It's a shame they didn't, I would have liked a staff stealing concept.
Article for Saruman's Staff is done.
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Hmmm, all at Regroup phase. Orc Overseer exhausting Gandalf, who bears Staff of Saruman. Then The Trees Are Strong discarding each [Isengard] Orc. Then Staff of Saruman's text returning Saruman to hand, and Gandy gets killed by the way. Somewhat unlikely to happen, but how cool it'd be!
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Border Defenses written.
I suppose one could also try Saruman, CS + Mumak Commander, GatS (With Pavise if necessary) + Ted Sandyman to get rid of all the minions (Except Saruman).
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FIS is up.
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The Balrog, Flame of Udun
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Ted Sandyman must be removed from the explanation of FIS. He can stack only [Men] Men and he is a [Men] Hobbit. So he'll be still present.
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Done. I thought I had seen him stack himself in Gemp, but I must be remembering incorrectly. Also wrote article for Lorien Elf.
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No, you are remembering right, that actually happens in Gemp. But that behavior of Ted Sandyman must be a bug.
In respect of Lorien Elf and Dwarf Guard, they are "weak" to cards that get bigger with each companion (or character) in the dead pile: Sauron's Defenses, Orc Butchery, Field of the Fallen, Beyond All Hope, Driven Back... So added those cards to their "weak versus" list.
Also added counters to Thrarin, DS in his "weak versus" list.
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Thanks for the additions. Added Uruk Fanatic to that list as well.
Wrote article for Ulaire Enquea, LoM. I listed the counters to his ability in the final paragraph of the strategy, but perhaps they'd look better in the Weak versus section? Also, Flaming Brand is effective against all Nazgul, so perhaps that's not worth a mention.
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Thanks for the additions. Added Uruk Fanatic to that list as well.
Right, thanks! Forgot about it, and about Houses of Lamentation. Added the Houses too.
About Enquea, Flaming Brand isn't effective against Shotgun Enquea's crowd control, but I think is still worth of mention. The Brand is enough to nullify most splash Nazgul in skirmish.
Added Terrible and Evil as a counter to Enquea LoM in the last paragraph.
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That's a good point, the !Brand is technically worse for a splashed Enquea than a regular Nazgul. Thank you for adding Terrible and Evil as a counter too, as I easily forget that card (I've never used it). Wrote articles for Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood and Haldir, Emissary of the Galadhrim.
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Added General Strategy for Galadriel, Lady Redeemed, who already had Strengths and Weaknesses written. I had trouble with the auto-linker in this one, I had to manually link War Club and Cirdan, TS. Reading back, it doesn't appear to have linked Hides either...
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Galadriel LR is also useful to start a splashed Elf, and use cards that require one. Ideas I've used are: The Council of Elrond to play tales (powerful with Bilbo), and Saved From the Fire to set up the [Elven] side of your fellowship (useful to start Gandalf LoM and a [Gondor] Man, a Dwarf and an Elf to play Well Met Indeed, and to replace soon Galadriel and that UB Dwarf/Gondorian with stronger companions).
I even made a deck with both ideas, time ago: start Bilbo as RB, with Gandalf LoM, Merry (any version), Pippin FtF and Galadriel as starting fellows. Burn Galadriel with SFtF asap to get an [Elven] ally (preferably Elrond HtGG) and 2x The Council of Elrond. Use both events to get [Shire] tales (preferably RBoW and either TABA or TTotGR), without having to burn a Hobbit to get them! That's 13 twilight, but you assemble much quicker (RBoW draws tons!), draw 1 card, and filter out 6 FP cards from draw deck at once.
Frankly, I think those ideas are hard to write in that article and there is no need to do so. But those are the only practical uses I give her. Because I HATE that version of the Witch! :D
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Cool ideas! I definitely want to have a go with using Saved from the Fire on her, it'd make it easier to use cards like Final Count which are normally such a pain to set up. Especially since Dunharrow Plateau will fetch My Axe is Notched...
Wrote article for Thrarin, DS, adding Anduin Confluence as a Weakness. There must be a host of cards that he's immune to, being an ally rather than a companion, but I only came up with 4 off the top of my head + Thin and Stretched, which I didn't want to mention here because he's only one ally, so odds are on a companion will still skirmish and trigger it. Will want to mention that one with Horn of Boromir.
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The problem with Final Count + My Axe Is Notched is the fragility. Gimli FA can protect his condition, but Final Count is totally !helpless against condition removal, which is easy in Movie Block (Great Hill Troll, Grond, Saruman BT, Discovered...). Anyway it's very funny when everything is on the board. And burning a splash Galadriel has many other options to try: Elrond + Vilya + anything else; 2 [Elven] characters + TLAoEaM; an Elf companion + 2 items; Elrond HtGG + Shoulder to Shoulder (to remove 2+ wounds per turn from your Dwarves)...
In respect of Thrarin DS, addded the mighty combo with Disquiet of Our People + Shoulder to Shoulder. I've used it in some opportunities against a swarm led by The Balrog and a Cave Troll :twisted:...
EDIT: Another option to use Disquiet with Thrarin is to give him an Endurance of Dwarves, which allows to use that combo in Dwarf-only fellowships. Added it.
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I agree, it ends up being more of a fun combo than a viable one. I have seen it work a couple of times, but as you said, post Two Towers there's just too much condition discard. I like trying to make weird cards work though. Well, except for Lightfootedness ;)
I've never tried the Disquiet + Thrarin combo, shame it wouldn't work with Strength of Spirit :( I did win a game once with Disquiet on a Dwarf Guard at site 9. They don't normally last that long though.
Madril, DoO is written.
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Expanded article for !The !Ruling Ring 1C2.
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Added article for A Wizard is Never Late. Would it be better to use CRD quotes with my Rules and Clarifications? Or is okay to have the statement on its own? I thought there was a [gandalf] card that played followers from your draw deck, which I was going to use for comparison, but I can't find it. Maybe it was a [shire] card.
EDIT: Did The Seen and the Unseen as well.
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Article written for Grima, Wormtongue.
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Good article! Added more counters to Grima:
- Ringbound-only fellowships
- Ents and other Unbound companions who can manage without bearing any card
- Foul Creation (can discard Grima from your hand)
- Great Day, Great Hour
- Unheeded (if a card exerts Grima)
- Shadowplay
- Denethor, Last Ruling Steward
Also wrote a line about discarding those cards returned by Grima with Band of the Eye or Tower Lieutenant.
Added Foul Creation and A New Light as weaknesses to Saruman SotE, Saruman's Staff WD and Staff of Saruman FIS.
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Thanks :) I get the feeling A New Light is going to be on a lot of minions, but I guess that's because we're writing up all the important ones at the moment, and that's what A New Light is good against.
Article for Grima, CC is up.
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Wrote article for Gil-Galad, High King of the Noldor. I don't yet consider this complete; there's so much that can be said about this guy, and I'm sure I've missed stuff, particularly under Strengths and Weaknesses. But I was running out of steam after the General Strategy. :(
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Elf Song written.
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Good article. Short and efficient. Added more cards to the Weak versus list:
- [Wraith] Dark Whispers, Ulaire Enquea RiT, Ulaire Toldea MoM, The Ring Draws Them, They Will Find the Ring;
- [Isengard] Orthanc Berserker, Traitor's Voice and Evil Afoot;
- [Sauron] Enduring Evil, The Eye of Sauron, Get Off the Road!;
- [Moria] Troubled Mountains.
Those in bold require require X burdens to trigger (like Nazgul Sword and Shotgun Enquea, which you included). Removing 1 burden is often enough to delay that trigger and nullify that strategy for at least 1 turn more (pretty annoying). The rest spot X burdens to get X benefits, those aren't as damaged by the remotion of only 1 burden.
About Gil-Galad, High King of the Noldor, I can't help in anything because I don't play expanded (and had to quit IRL after Set 11).
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Thanks for the additions. I know what you mean, I never played any games past The Two Towers IRL, but since I found Gemp I've played and enjoyed all the common formats. Expanded article for Gil-Galad, HKotN and wrote article for Lurtz's Battle Cry.
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Stairs of Khazad Dum written.
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Article for Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow written. Which reminded me of a thought, is the only advantage of Weatherhills over Bree Streets the fact that its ability stacks with Ferny, and Bree Streets' ability doesn't?
EDIT: Just noticed Weatherhills cheapens Ulaire Nelya, Bree Streets doesn't. Any other synergies I'm missing?
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Ulaire Nelya is the only Nazgul with a site 2 home. Weatherhills is a [3] twilight site, whereas Bree Streets is only a [1] twilight site. If you look at the [2] difference as the cost of Bill Ferny, then Weatherhills is the superior site. Without Bill Ferny in play, Bree Streets will play out better for the Shadow player.
Statistically, in a 60 card deck with Frodo and two starting companions, you are looking at a 56% chance of drawing Bill Ferny in your opening hand, presuming four copies in your deck. With a mulligan, those odds drop significantly to just over 32%.
Most people don't run four copies of Ferny and most people have a deck larger closer to 70 cards than 60, to put it in perspective.
-wtk
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Thanks for the feedback. It had occurred to me that we can do with some more site articles, but I had initially forgotten that Weatherhills even existed till recently, seemed like everyone on Gemp was using Bree Streets. Which isn't surprising ;)
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It also depends on the number of (roaming) Nazgûl you are going to play at site 2. If you play only 1, Weatherhills is better. If you play 2, both are tied. If you play 3 or more, Bree Streets is better. Besides,
while Weatherhills has synergy with Nelya and Bill Ferny, Bree Streets protects from What Are They?, Eregion's Trails and Swordsman of the Northern Kingdom.
Therefore, Weatherhills can be more useful for twilight Nazgul given their expensive tricks, though in their case Weathertop is often much better.
Added Goblin Warrior to the weak vs list of Stairs of Khazad Dum.
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Bree Streets doesn't stop Nazgul from roaming, it just reduces the roaming penalty, so it doesn't protect from What are They? etc . At least that's how I've always understood it.
Good point about Weathertop. Article written for it written. Will write the other two later.
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:-[ You are right about Bree Streets, somehow I confused it with Rohirrim Camp's effect. #-o
Weathertop doesn't make twilight Nazgul weaker to stealths, it's actually the opposite as the FP player will need twice the stealths to get rid of your minions, immediatly before the Ford of Bruinen.
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Weathertop updated, Weatherhills and Bree Streets written. Looking back now, I'm not quite sure why I thought Stealth was a Weathertop weakness ???
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Looking back now, I'm not quite sure why I thought Stealth was a Weathertop weakness
You're getting your site 2s all mixed up. Breeland Forest prevents the usage of stealth events.
-wtk
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Could've been. Might have been getting too generic on the Nazgul theme too, as they and uruks really don't like having their skirmishes cancelled.
Article for Breeland Forest written.
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Article for Buckleberry Ferry written.
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Article written for !The Bridge of Khazad Dum 1C349.
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Article written for the Cave Troll of Moria, Scourge of the Black Pit.
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Swordarm of the White Tower
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Cave Troll's Hammer
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Added some words about Plundered Armories (and Disarmed) to the Cave Troll's Hammer article.
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Good points. Wrote article for Hate.
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!East Road 1U320
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Added Shoulder to Shoulder to Hate's Weak versus list.
East Road is a cool site for dwarves, but the best for them are in my opinion Hobbiton Party Field and Hobbiton Woods (my favourite, allows them to set a favourable site 2 against Uruks and Nazgul, preferably Trollshaw Forest).
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East Road could help Nazgul quite a bit if the opponent doesn't know what he's up against and decides to dump the companions anyway.
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Thanks for the feedback guys :) It's encouraging to know that I'm not the only one with an interest in doing this. I'll add a note about the Nazgul synergy, it's particularly nice since it won't matter whether or not you go first or second - You get a Nazgul boosting site either way (Unless it's >2 players)
EDIT: Goblin Runner article written.
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Wrote articles for Uruk-hai Sword and Uruk Rear Guard. I didn't want to put possession discard as a weakness to the sword, as it's not an essential item (And all possessions are vulnerable to possession discard). I also didn't put [rohan] mounts as a weakness to the guard, as they barely scratch his high vitality; I would be more inclined to emphasise these for one-shot exerters, such as Uruk Defender. Thoughts?
EDIT: Added article for What are They?
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For the Runner article: Host of Moria plays it from the discard as well and I'd add maneuver, archery and skirmish wounding to its weaknesses. Also, it's found in many stupid swarm decks, so a. mentioning of this is necessary imo.
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Done. Also wrote article for Pavise.
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Article written for Ancient Enmity. I'm not a fan of discard, are there any other interesting tricks you could do with this card that I'm missing?
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Elven Rope might return a minion like a non-Stinker Gollum or some guy weakened by Fifth Level, and Ancient Enmity then might try to discard it.
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Ancient Enmity paired with Cirdan is especially evil.
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Thanks for the info, added both points to the article. Also wrote article for Legolas, Greenleaf.
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Just to let people know, I'm still writing articles, but I'm concerned about posting them at the moment due to the problems that the wiki is struggling with. I'm hoping that either Kralik or Teltura will be able to resolve the disc space issues we've been experiencing lately, and I'm concerned that article writing isn't exactly helping this matter (If I get told otherwise I'll keep on posting).
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Alright, I just got an email from Kralik, who pinned the problem down to a write permissions thing that he's fixed; there's tons of space left, he said.
You may now resume your regularly-scheduled frantic article posting.
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Thanks to both of you for getting this sorted out. :) When I click "Edit" now, I get the stats down the side of the card, rather than General Strategy and below (Which I can't see at all) - How do I get this to show up?
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#$&*@!! lol. That's reverted a fix Kralik did before. Fortunately, the enemy you know, etc.
There are instructions on how to get around this at the bottom of the Article Style Guide (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wiki_style), pasted here for posterity:
Editing cards is a bit less intuitive than editing articles, though, due to the way that the card articles were generated. If you go to a page, such as The One Ring, Isildur's Bane, and hit “edit this page”, you'll see that this shows the page layout including the card image, transcription, but the strategy info is on it's own page, which is referenced by the line {{page>:lotr01001wiki}} at the bottom. If you try to navigate to the page at lotr01001wiki, though, you'll find yourself automatically redirected back to the card's page!
This is annoying and not intuitive at all. Unfortunately, until Kralik wakes from his slumber it's all we've got. All that can be done is to add ?redirect=no to the end of the card's wiki page to edit that part of the strategy. Thus, for editing Isildur's Bane, we navigate to lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lotr01001wiki?redirect=no and edit that page there. Thus, an easy way to get to the right page is to copy-paste wiki?redirect=no to the end of a card's URL.
TL;DR paste wiki?redirect=no at the end of the page you want to edit and then click 'edit this page'.
Glad I didn't nuke that part of the style guide after Kralik fixed it the first time...I'll email him again, but I wouldn't hold my breath, lol.
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Ah okay. That makes a lot more sense now, reminds me of when I wrote my first article and it redirected me to there when I was finished, so I thought I had deleted the card's picture and stats by accident!
Articles uploaded for Denizens Enraged, Drums in the Deep, Unfamiliar Territory and Goblin Spear.
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Articles added for Boromir, LoG and Goblin Spearman.
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Good articles. Added a new paragraph to the Goblin Spear article:
"You can help bearer to kill a companion by using Frenzy (assigns a Moria Orc to an exhausted companion). Getting an exhausted companion may be hard to achieve for a Swarm or a Beatdown Moria Shadow, but that's not a great problem for a good Moria Archery deck (or for Goblin Domain). Besides, normally Moria Archery will be countered by Isildur's Bane (converting X arrows into 2X burdens), so 1 or 2 more burdens may able you to trigger Shotgun Enquea (usually a splash in those decks) without having to refer to the number of companions. With all that in mind, Goblin Spear may be a really good weapon in Moria Archery decks if you pack the needed tools to support it."
Added Enduring Evil and Men Will Fall to Boromir LoG's weak versus list.
EDIT: Wrote another paragraph to the Spear's article, which points out a way to play it from discard pile on a non-Orc [Moria] minion (The Balrog or the Cave Troll) in formats that X-list the Relics of Moria, or if your Relics were discarded or still don't arrive. Useful in Movie Block decks (like corruption Balrog).
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Thanks for the feedback :) Wrote articles for 1R307 (Pippin), 1C78 (!Mysterious Wizard) and Pippin, Mr. Took.
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EDIT: Wrote another paragraph to the Spear's article, which points out a way to play it from discard pile on a non-Orc [Moria] minion (The Balrog or the Cave Troll) in formats that X-list the Relics of Moria, or if your Relics were discarded or still don't arrive. Useful in Movie Block decks (like corruption Balrog).
For some reason, I've never realized that you can play a Goblin Spear on the Balrog or Cave Troll. I get it, I just never would have noticed that it didn't have to be played on an Orc.
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A common Sealed tactic.
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Make Haste is better than Warmed Up a Bit to replay Pippin. Added it.
Mysterious Wizard... there are other Shadow cards that benefit from the twilight it makes: Guard Commander, Uruk Brood, Uruk Slayer, Ulaire Attea Keeper of Dol Guldur, Not Easily Destroyed, Orc Scimitar, Strength Born of Fear. Mysterious Wizard's cost also helps Under the Living Earth, Undaunted, Keep Your Forked Tongue, Gandalf's Staff Focus of Power and Unknown Perils. Added them too.
Sent Back cannot be used with Pippin Mr. Took's ability. Both are phase actions, so can't stack :( (it's stated at "Rules and Clarifications" in the same article). Therefore, removed Sent Back from that article. If Mr. Took's gametext was "During the fellowship phase, Gandalf and Aragorn are twilight cost -2", it would stack with any other card like the Prancing Pony, AWINL and Sent Back, and wouldn't modify their cost at the starting fellowship. Shame, would be very useful.
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@Rubbercarp: I do find it to be a strange design decision on Decipher's part with the spear. I assume it was intentional, and it makes some sense for the Cave Troll, but the Balrog? They could've just given him the same line as the Watcher, as his weapons are artifacts anyway.
@Durin's Heir: Yes, I wrote that clarification, but I thought that Sent Back was worded differently; thanks for clearing that up. Great stuff for Mysterious Wizard too!
EDIT: Let Them Come! done.
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Article for Iron Axe done.
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Articles up for Saruman's Ambition and Ferocity.
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You're welcome my friend! I have nothing to add to your articles for Let Them Come! and Iron Axe, those seem perfect to me.
Added Faramir SoD as a weakness of both Ferocity and Saruman's Ambition.
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Wrote article for Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin. We're getting there with the set 1 Dwarf cards! ;D
@Teltura: You'll notice that 3 of the minions in parentheses in that article didn't autolink. I know I can manually link cards, but I'm curious as to if I'm missing something, as 3 cards in a row suggests I'm not typing them in as the autolinker expects. Any advice on this?
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Wow, that is really strange. I can't even pin it down to what exactly is wrong, as those exact cards autolink just fine if you put them on their own line, or if you divide the sentence into a bullet list, or if you do just about anything else besides that exact configuration. It's not the punctuation, changing the four cards to different cards still only autolinks the first, cards after that section autolink fine; I'm stumped.
As far as I can tell, some extreme edge case in the regex is tripping up on that particular section, somehow. Best you can do I think is work around it; either manually link like you suggested, or divide it into a bulleted list or something.
Excellent work on all these articles, btw. I always pop in and read when you post, I just seldom have anything to add.
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Nice article, detailed but concise. I'm glad to see you expanding the information about the Dwarvish culture ;).
I've seen that autolink problem a bunch of times before. It's related to the culture symbols but don't know the exact reason (I know nothing about programming). If you remove the [Moria] symbol in "or kill 2 [Moria] orcs" (and write "Moria" instead), all 4 card titles will autolink correctly (tested it in a preview). Another example: days ago, when adding info to Goblin Spear's article, the same happened. "You can help... by using !Frenzy (assigns a Moria Orc to an exhausted companion)." First, I wrote "[Moria] Orc" but that maimed the autolink of Frenzy. Hope this little info brings some light into the issue.
So I replaced that symbol for the corresponding word, for the sake of autolinking all the 4 cards. 5 cards, because added the frightening Orc Butcher to that list. Added also 1 point in each strong vs and weak vs lists: strong versus "Skirmish wounding [Sauron] Orcs", and weak versus "Shadow decks with no Orcs".
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Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but thanks again for the positive feedback. It's reassuring to know that you guys are reading (And improving!) this stuff on a regular basis. ;D
I had noticed the problem occasionally before, but I put it down to server issues. With them resolved I was curious as to what the problem was. I'll watch out for those culture symbols in the future!
Article for 1R23 !Nobody Tosses a Dwarf! written.
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Article done for Their Halls of Stone.
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Still Draws Breath
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Article for Stand Against Darkness up. The lore next to this card doesn't seem to match the card's printed lore?
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You're right, looking back at it, the sentence was ambiguous - I was trying to say that the [sauron] culture is no more powerful than the other cultures, rather than imply it was less powerful. Changed that sentence.
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Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but thanks again for the positive feedback. It's reassuring to know that you guys are reading (And improving!) this stuff on a regular basis. ;D
Haha! You don't need to apologize, being a thankful and nice person is always a plus.
Those articles are really well written. !Good work!
About Nobody Tosses A Dwarf, it's also strong against cards that are placed on the top of a deck, like Hidden Even From Her (can't recall any other example). And isn't blocked by Saruman's Snows or Cavern Entrance, which also predict who will win the brawl. Added them.
About Stand Against Darkness, Bitter Hatred is as deadly as Hate against it, or more if we consider it can wound Elf allies. Added it.
I have nothing to add about Their Halls of Stone and Still Draws Breath. I remember a time in real life when my Dwarf Guard, handling 2 axes, overwhelmed The Balrog at the bridge using 4x THoS and 3x Flurry of Blows! We laughed 'till it began to hurt.
I had noticed the problem occasionally before, but I put it down to server issues. With them resolved I was curious as to what the problem was. I'll watch out for those culture symbols in the future!
You don't need to abstain from using the culture symbols if in the same sentence there isn't a card title mentioned (that you don't want to link manually). A simple period will end their effect on further or previous sentences.
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I've gotten so used to writing warnings about Hate, I had forgotten about Bitter Hatred! I used to use that card in Fellowship because I was fed up of playing vs last alliance decks. Thanks for the culture symbol tip, I haven't used them too much recently, will try to get back into the habit.
I don't think I've ever played anything on a Dwarf Guard, save maybe Dwarven Armor. That must have been an exceptional game!
Article written for Mithril Shaft. I've never used that card, but I thought of quite a few uses for it. Hopefully none of them break any game rules ;)
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I have actually. Added it.
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Article written for Saruman, Agent of the Dark Lord.
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Mithril Shaft can try to get you counters to swarms, like Disquiet of Our People or Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin. Besides Deep in Thought, you can activate Fury of the White Rider. Is also weak to discard decks. Added those points.
Great article for Saruman Agent of the Dark Lord. Nothing to add.
I don't think I've ever played anything on a Dwarf Guard, save maybe Dwarven Armor. That must have been an exceptional game!
Indeed it was! Very often The Balrog was killed by damage bonuses, most of the times by Gimli and once even by Thrarin with 2 axes. And some few times he was overwhelmed ;).
I was forced to use Dwarf Guards, because never had Gloin FtT in my hands. Nor even a single copy of Dwarven Bracers or Endurance of Dwarves, or Gimli SoG. But hey, always packed 3x Lord of Moria and 12 or 14 pumps so The Witch King rarely did anything, Pale Blade or not!
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I was forced to use Dwarf Guards, because never had Gloin FtT in my hands. Nor even a single copy of Dwarven Bracers or Endurance of Dwarves, or Gimli SoG. But hey, always packed 3x Lord of Moria and 12 or 14 pumps so The Witch King rarely did anything, Pale Blade or not!
I think your comment there really highlights the difference between Gemp games and real life games (Except for collectors who had all the cards) - I had never played with Goblin Armory or Relics of Moria before Gemp, so I knew nothing of that loop, and I never played with Gimli's Helm either, which made life harder vs uruks and the balrog. It's a shame you didn't have Gloin, he was pretty good when playing with the physical cards.
Thanks for the extras for Mithril Shaft :) I expanded on Throne of the Golden Hall today, it already had a pretty good article, but it had several spelling/grammar issues that needed tidying up, and I added a few details while I was at it. Should get back to the Fellowship cards soon.
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I always thought Throne of the Golden Hall was one of the most overpowered cards ever to climb from a twisted, psychotropic-dependant, chaotic, obscure mind. How can you ever try to imagine a way of killing Eomer in skirmish if this thing is on the table? First you need to win the skirmish (dream on...), then there are followers or armors/helms (keep on dreaming...). Then comes this card, and allies save him from dying against a Balrog-and-Sauron tag-team. :( Then comes Well Stored or Mithlond, oh my...
Is there any other way than Grond to remove that thing from the board? It's an ARTIFACT, for goodness' sake! A last thing: blocks my favourite minion from fighting, as if Decipher hadn't made Saruman a weak fighter until very late...
I think your comment there really highlights the difference between Gemp games and real life games (Except for collectors who had all the cards) - I had never played with Goblin Armory or Relics of Moria before Gemp, so I knew nothing of that loop, and I never played with Gimli's Helm either, which made life harder vs uruks and the balrog. It's a shame you didn't have Gloin, he was pretty good when playing with the physical cards.
That's true. I had 1 copy of Relics (from a lucky Gandalf starter, with Morgul Hunter and Elrond LoR) but without Goblin Armory or Moria Axe its usefulness is very limited. I had Gimli's Helm and Gimli's Battle Axe, but no uncommon Bracers or Endurance. That, of course, didn't limited the fun at all! We were forced to find new combos and uses for small, cheap cards, and a good bunch of the whole fun came from that.
Thanks for the extras for Mithril Shaft :)
You are welcome my fellow. No, thank you for keeping the work of writting new articles.
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Agree with you there. The second ability hasn't actually bothered me very much, but immobilising Saruman is very painful. And yes, Grond is the only method I know of to discard Free Peoples generic artifacts (Naturally if it's an artifact weapon there are methods), if there are others I'd love to know what they are, because I don't like fighting Throne of Minas Tirith or Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light either.
It's funny as well how !perspective of cards can change. It took me a while to realise that I could stack Endurance of Dwarves on one guy, and I never thought of splashing Shotgun Enquea.
Did Halls of My Home, but didn't have a whole lot to say, unfortunately.
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Halls of My Home and What Are We Waiting For are also used with Drawing His Eye in Movie Block and onwards. Besides that, I have no other info to add. The cost of exerting a Dwarf kills most of its usefulness, more over with Dwaves having little vitality in FOTR/TTT.
Grond, HotU has many problems on its own. Unlike Shotgun Enquea or Wormtongue, it's not easily splashable. Requires [Sauron] minions to pile up tokens, and that changes your shadow deck substantially if you use it to protect Saruman from Throne of the Golden Hall, or Wargriders from Throne of Minas Tirith, or... Also works at regroup, too late for Saruman to fight. Can be discarded by Galadriel LR, Roll of Thunder, or by the Throne of Minas Tirith itself >:( (you can use Cavern Entrance to protect it, but the complexity doesn't decline with that). You can truly splash Grond to get rid of things that cost (0) only.
What were they thinking?
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I think lack of artifact discard (for the shadow player) was a loose end Decipher never got around to tying up, along with a lack of Follower discard and the mysterious absence of [orc] archers ;) I still enjoy Expanded for what it is though.
Did Wealth of Moria, the final set 1 [dwarven] card. Time for a celebration! :mrgreen:
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A dwarvish celebration with dwarvish potions! \:D/ (Oh shut up, I'm abstemious; dwarvish green tea for me then! 8-))
I have nothing to add to your Wealth of Moria article :up:. But reviewed each Set 1 [Dwarven] article, and expanded the information for Farin, Gimli DoE, Gimli's Battle Axe, Greatest Kingdom of My People, Grimir Dwarven Elder, Stairs of Khazad-Dum and Thrarin. Those are mostly small details. But when expanding Grimir's article I was somewhat inspired and had important things to say, please drop by and read it.
I think lack of artifact discard (for the shadow player) was a loose end Decipher never got around to tying up, along with a lack of Follower discard and the mysterious absence of [orc] archers ;) I still enjoy Expanded for what it is though.
Yes, it was an awful ommission. I don't play expanded due to the sick, infinite potential of sick combos. I'm a lover of lore-consistency and most individual Post-Mount Doom cards and rules (not to say their many, many combos) weren't made to accomplish that purpose at all.
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Note that the "by Michael Parker" and similar footnotes are because the article originally comes from a blog post on Decipher's website. There's no need to sign off every edit, and if the article is added to or substantially changed we can always remove the attribution, since it's embedded in the article history.
Still, what a milestone! A small percentage of cards, but I think Dictionary's got the right idea to do this moving forward...."write an article for every card" is a rough goal, but "write an article for all [culture] cards in [set]" is much more doable, apparently.
Congratulations all around for the writing and editing effort!
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@DurinsHeir: Thanks for checking through, some of the earlier articles were a little bare. Grimir's article is looking very comprehensive now ;D
@TelTura: Thanks, I think these milestones are also good because Set 1 is one of the major sets, whereas sets 2 and 3 aren't so bad, with some cultures only having about 5 cards :)
Article for Bow of the Galadhrim written.
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@Dictionary: Thanks to you instead, it's my [Dwarven] culture and my [Dwarven] people who gets the benefits ;).
Bow of the Galadhrim is one of the 3 FOTR block cards that can wound (and try to kill) Saruman before or during skirmishes. The other 2 are Betrayal of Isengard and Hobbit Sword-play. Added it.
@TelTura: Thanks! It has been a pleasure to contribute my grain of sand. The article of Michael Parker seemed very good to me, so adding instead of replacing was the natural step ahead (I took Dethwish07's addition to Johnny Crawford's Dwarven Heart article as a precedent). Those articles are written like a story, it's sometimes easier to include an addition than to summarize and rewrite everything again. But things can be summarized, and if a much clearer text results then such change is welcome.
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Bow of the Galadhrim is one of the 3 FOTR block cards that can wound (and try to kill) Saruman before or during skirmishes. The other 2 are Betrayal of Isengard and Hobbit Sword-play. Added it.
A Ranger's Versatility comes to mind for conditional exhausting, allowing one to pick off any Uruk-Hai during Archery or Skirmish.
-wtk
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A Ranger's Versatility comes to mind for conditional exhausting, allowing one to pick off any Uruk-Hai during Archery or Skirmish.
-wtk
That's true Ket. Keeper of Isengard can no longer prevent wounds, and that's always a good thing. But the most important effect of ARV would be to remove Saruman with BotG, and with him that nasty fierce keyword. Shouldn't be difficult for a TMAYOD fellowship.
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Added those points, and wrote article for Defiance*.
EDIT: Did Let Folly be Our Cloak too.
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I have nothing to add to Defiance*.
But regarding Let Folly Be Our Cloak, it allows you to use special abilities that require less than [X] in the twilight pool: Gimli DoE and Gandalf Greyhame come to mind. Also, events like Risk A Little Light and Questions That Need Answering (those underrated events can assemble you killer FP or Shadow hands!). Playing 1 companion from discard with Greyhame at site 7 or 8 can win you many games (like Aragorn ROTN or Heir of Elendil), playing 2 should be much better (like Pippin Hobbit of Some Intelligence or Eowyn Lady of Rohan).
It's also useful with Till Durin Wakes Again when moving from an underground. And with Mithlond at Expanded. Besides, can be grabbed again by Barliman (who alike this event, doesn't need Gandalf). Who can be healed by Mithlond.
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Re-structured the article to include those points. Wrote article for Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer.
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Gandalf, BoO
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Frodo, Son of Drogo
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Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
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Treachery Deeper than You Know
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Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood
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Legolas Prince of Mirkwood is very good at those sites 2 and 3 that benefit Nazgul, when your fellowship hasn't already set up and Wraiths have a strong advantage; therefore he's great when pairing with a Nazgul shadow side. He's also weak to Bill Ferny, Watcher in the Water and tentacles. With Bow of the Galadhrim, he's also strong against minions that require vitality to exert. Added those points.
Gandalf BoO decks can remove burdens with Tom Bombadil or Bouncing Hobbits (Home and Hearth with replaying hobbits like Pippin WoBaS or Merry Swordthain; Make Haste; and Merry Impatient Hobbit or Pippin Hastiest of All with Knocked On The Head). He can also get resistance bonuses from followers like Radagast ToB and Gwaihir, although those are not as reliable as his possessions, but are worthy when double or triple moving towards site 9. Companions with muster can help him to get more [Gandalf] cards to ditch, just before moving at regroup; [Gandalf] related cards are Strange Meeting, Theoden KotE, Fear and Great Wonder, Gandalf's Staff Ash Staff and With Doom We Come. Added those points too.
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Good points! There's so much to say about Gandalf, BoO - he might be a difficult RB to use, but I do think it's a very interesting card. Wrote article for Gwemegil.
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With Bow of the Galadhrim, he's also strong against minions that require vitality to exert. Added those points.
I know I haven't edited anything in the Wiki, but for the sake of the article, I think that Bow of the Galadhrim is strong against minions that require vitality to exert. There is hardly a difference between any of the Fellowship block Legolas cards, unless skirmishing a Nazgul.
I think you could just as easily note that the Legolas is really good against a swarm if you happen to play Dismay of Our Enemies and have already won the skirmish and there isn't any twilight in the pool. Just seems disingenuous to the article at hand. Commenting on commonly used combinations, of course, makes sense, but the articles become bogged down if you say, "Aragorn, Heir to the White City is a great card especially when you put Ranger's Sword and Flaming Brand and No Stranger to the Shadows and The Last Alliance of Elves and Men and four copies of Athelas on him."
-wtk
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Good points! There's so much to say about Gandalf, BoO - he might be a difficult RB to use, but I do think it's a very interesting card. Wrote article for Gwemegil.
Yes, Gandy RB has the worst of all penalties but is still one of the mightiest companions ever printed, because he's Gandy (and now is ringbound, immune to many nasty tricks!). You just need to build a part of your deck in order to counter the burden penalty, or most of the deck to counter the discard penalty, the choice is in your hands. That's all.
Gwemegil's damage bonus is very unusual among the [Elven] culture. AFAIK only Erethon can also gain damage, and that regards all [Elven] cards in all sets. Added that, and the weakness to Troop of Uruk-Hai (the skirmish ability is negated too by that Uruk).
About those 3 versions of Frodo:
- Old Bilbo's Heir: gives another Gandalf signet for TMAYOD decks, and Gandalf's Wisdom replaces Reluctant Adventurer's choke skill. Anduin Confluence should be in his Weak vs list.
- Son of Drogo: his skill is very useful with pipe decks. You can pile up his wounds on another wounded companion with Frodo's signet, and then Frodo's Pipe will heal those wounds using 1 pipeweed instead of 2.
- Reluctant Adventurer: awesome with These Are My People, replaying all your Brace of Coneys for no twilight. That's pretty insane with TSC healing the whole fellowship, absorbing those 2 exertions of Aragorn and much more.
Added all those points.
I know I haven't edited anything in the Wiki, but for the sake of the article, I think that Bow of the Galadhrim is strong against minions that require vitality to exert. There is hardly a difference between any of the Fellowship block Legolas cards, unless skirmishing a Nazgul.
@Ket: "And an Armor". You have a good point there and your voice is welcome here. But that idea doesn't apply on Prince of Mirkwood's article, because that mention isn't bloating the narrated paragraphs (it's a sole line in the "Strong vs" list). The point with that Legolas is that with merely the Long Knives of Legolas he's a powerful fighter against all FOTR block cultures, so he'll be winning a lot of skirmishes, allowing the Bow to trigger almost always you want. The Knives and that particular Legolas make the Bow reliable against all possible Shadow decks (except a full tentacles deck, but has anyone ever seen a tentacle deck in FOTR block? Btw, what a shame), thus Prince of Mirkwood has a combo with Bow of the Galadhrim that no other FOTR block Legolas has.
That's very important when designing a deck. Also, often non-Nazgul decks pack some splashed Nazgul like Nertea MoDG or Shotgun Enquea, so his skill is also useful against Moria/Stupid Swarm, Moria Archery, Uruk, Sauron Grind/Corruption... decks if they pack such splashs.
For obvious combos not related to an intrinsic mechanism of the card (like HttWC bearing an Armor or Ranger's Sword, in contrast to Aragorn RotN bearing a Coat of Mail), your counsel is correct and very welcome.
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I understand where you are coming from. I just worry about too much information being posited in the Encyclopedia. I think that natural combinations should be included and maybe there could be a section of "cards eligible to bear" and a link to the signet page (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/signet) for signet combos, etc. I just think, considering there are only three possessions that Legolas can bear in Fellowship block, suggesting that he is a boss when including Bow of the Galadhrim seems superfluous.
And for what it is worth, I run a tentacle deck in Fellowship Block that is 11 wins/4 losses on Gemp through 15 games. Admittedly, though, only three of those were site 4 kills.
-wtk
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I would follow-up with this thought on the idea of "natural combinations" versus "simple combinations."
The example I would use is Gandalf, Manager of Wizards. His text creates a natural combination with Forearmed or Galadriel, Keeper of Nenya, as you can place cards on top of your draw deck in a preferred order, then use the other cards for skirmishes pumping.
Shadowfax or Gandalf's Staff, however, would be a "simple combination." It's a card that plays on Gandalf, Manager of Wizards, but it would also play on, say, Gandalf, The Grey Pilgrim (or any other Gandalf, for that matter). The fact that Gandalf's Staff can cancel a skirmish to get you out of a bind isn't an intrinsic value of Gandalf, Manager of Wizards, and playing Shadowfax on Gandalf, Manager of Wizards to help Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark doesn't add anything regarding the value of the Gandalf card in question.
An example of this would be the current build of the article for Legolas, Greenleaf. To quote directly:
Strong Versus...
Minions with only 1 vitality (And no wound prevention)
Orthanc Champion
Easterling Lieutenant and Easterling Guard
Goblin Runner
Bill Ferny, SSF
Lieutenant of Orthanc
Moria Archer Troop (Kill other archers to prevent spotting requirement)
Weak Versus...
The Balrog, Durin's Bane (Or any Balrog with Fill with Fear)
Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
Goblin Armory
Hides
Broad-Bladed Sword
Cave Troll's Chain
Spies of Saruman
Shelob (Any version)
Isengard Warg-riders
I might argue that this is too specific.
Natural Match-Ups and Combinations:
- Complementary with Aragorn's Bow, Gondor Bowmen, and other pre-skirmish wounding cards
- Strong Match-Up versus low-vitality minions
- Strong Match-Up versus minions with exert-to-activate text
Poor Match-Ups:
- The Balrog, Durin's Bane
- Cards that skip the archery phase such as Fill With Fear or Spies of Saruman
- High-Vitality Minions (such as Shelob or Isengard Warg-Riders)
- Enduring Minions (such as Shelob)
- Wound Prevention (such as Hides, High Vantage, or Saruman, Keeper of Isengard)
- Direct wounding (such as Hate or Relentless Charge)
- Healing Prevention (such as Black Breath)
I don't think it is the job of the Wiki to spell out every single combination for players. I saw Lieutenant of Orthanc listed on the Legolas, Greenleaf page and can understand the connection; however, I think it adds too much unnecessary detail. Citing Bill Ferny, Swarthy, Sneering Fellow or Easterling Lieutenant on Legolas, Greenleaf's page does not seem necessary; however, mentioning directed pre-skirmish wounding such as Legolas, Greenleaf on Bill or the Easterling's page is only natural.
I'd like to see a more generic, while still factual, approach.
-wtk
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Citing Bill Ferny, Swarthy, Sneering Fellow or Easterling Lieutenant on Legolas, Greenleaf's page does not seem necessary; however, mentioning directed pre-skirmish wounding such as Legolas, Greenleaf on Bill or the Easterling's page is only natural.
I'm not sure I understand this, isn't it just the same thing but on a different page?
Looking at Greenleaf's page, I can see you do make a good point. I've tried revamping the structure of his strengths and weaknesses - let me know if you think that looks better. Since the titles Strengths and Weaknesses are part of the template, I can't really change those.
I agree with you on the Gandalf's Staff example; there's no need to really mention that on Gandalf's page unless one particular version gets more benefit than others (Which is why Prince of Mirkwood gets references to LKoL and BotG when Greenleaf doesn't) I do try to avoid 'simple combinations' as you call them, although naturally sometimes stuff can slip through. One that was bothering me a while ago was relating to Faramir - 3 versions of him are Ring-Bound and thus immune to stuff like Grima, Wormtongue. The rest aren't. But is it worth saying that every Ring-Bound version of Faramir is immune to Grima? It's certainly not worth saying it for every ring-bound companion. And yet I feel like Faramir benefits more than most from being Ring-Bound - I guess because he's also a strong fighter.
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For a Ring-Bound Faramir strength, I might say something in the narrative about being Ring-Bound and avoiding cards that target unbound companions, such as Over the Isen or Grima, Wormtongue.
In the 'strengths' section, you could simply mention that he is Ring-Bound.
Legolas, Greenleaf looks a lot cleaner, but might still benefit from a little bit of work. But much improved. I might add a 'natural combination' or 'strength' being his ability to combine with Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark or We Left None Alive. In this case, specifically citing the card--it is out of culture--makes sense. This would suffice:
- Creates a natural combination with Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark and similar [Rohan] strategies
-wtk
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You mean synergy ;)
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I miss the :gp: days of these forums. Synergy--exactly.
-wtk
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Added the point to the strategy, wrote article for News of Mordor and cleaned up the strengths and weakness of Lurtz's Battle Cry using the same method (Since News of Mordor references it).
EDIT: Wrote article for Hill Clan too.
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Wrote article for Sam, Proper Poet.
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Is Hobbit Appetite really that bad? 1 twilight for 1 heal is fairly cheap; it beats Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith and Have Patience, and it allows you to wipe out any and all burdens when used on Sam, SoH. I appreciate that it's not a permanent, but its twilight cost of X makes it more versatile if anything and less likely to clog a hand. And as you said, one can easily use HttWC or Sting to remove the twilight it made.
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Did Ford of Bruinen. I said the card was used in almost all Nazgul decks, I might change that if people think that's not the case. I assume it can be combined with Morgul Gates, although I've never actually tried it, so I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify that too. Also added strengths and weaknesses to the Morgul Gates article.
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Did Ford of Bruinen. I said the card was used in almost all Nazgul decks, I might change that if people think that's not the case. I assume it can be combined with Morgul Gates, although I've never actually tried it, so I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify that too. Also added strengths and weaknesses to the Morgul Gates article.
If you play Morgul Gates and the Witch-King, he would cost [1] at Ford of Bruinen. You are correct that the site is almost exclusively used in Nazgul decks.
-wtk
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Thanks. Article up for Green Hill Country.
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Good stuff. I particularly like the Pipe articles, as I've never actually used the Pipeweed strategy. I went around today tidying up some articles, mostly ones that had content but still had bits of the old template text lying around in them. Also updated the List of Cards that Need Entries.
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Did Trollshaw Forest*.
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Maybe I'm getting too involved, but:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/mines_of_moria
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/realms_of_the_elf-lords
Cheers,
-wtk
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I really like the articles. :up: I did alter the Uruviel, MoL article a bit; As I understand it, she would not work with Valley of the Silverlode* (Its text refers to itself) or an opponent's Dimrill Dale (Since it must be your site 6, and presumably you wouldn't use Dimrill Dale with her in your deck). I also added a couple of thoughts to the Hobbit Appetite article, as I don't think it's a totally useless card. All the others are good.
Maybe I'm getting too involved,
I think it's great that someone else is writing articles, hopefully Durin's Heir or TelTura (Or anyone else :)) will add their thoughts soon. That said, I haven't heard anything from TelTura in a while.
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Did Wealth of Moria, the final set 1 [dwarven] card. Time for a celebration!
In a month and five days, we've knocked out [Elven] and [Gandalf] cultures as well, while shoring up several [Dwarven] articles and interspersing other articles in Fellowship of the Ring.
Great job Dictionary, TelTura, and Durin's Heir for efforts thus far.
-wtk
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It has been a much quieter couple of months, but thanks primarily to the vast amount of articles written by Ket_The_Jet, the remaining cards to edit in Set 1 is now approaching the size of the much smaller sets 2 and 3, with almost all of the ones remaining being shadow cards. We had stopped posting articles here for a time, referring instead to the Cards to Edit page, but I might start commenting here again in the hopes of reviving interest.
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Doesn't sound so bad ;) I did Midgewater Marshes and Council Courtyard today. There can't be that many sites left to do.
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So I might start helping you write articles but I don't know how. Whenever I click "edit this page" I get this message, "command disabled: source" Do you guys know how to fix this?
Modification: Ok I did a little more research and I think that there is a 25 post minimum before you start editing. Is that the problem?
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Yes, you need at least 25 posts. However, you can use the Newbro Article Submission thread to post articles: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,8924.0.html
Which is what I used when I had less than 25 posts. If TelTura doesn't get back to you then I can check your article instead; he hasn't be on in a while but if you post something it might wake him up.
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Ok thanks Dictionary
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A lot of overlap made several of these pretty easy...
No Stranger to the Shadows
Moria Scout
All Veils Removed
Beauty is Fading
Fear
Frozen By Fear
Their Power Is In Terror
Desperate Measures
Mordor Enraged [you are welcome, guys]
Mordor's Strength
Orc Inquisitor
Orc Hunters
Orc Scouting Band
Orc Soldier
Orc War Band
Cheers,
-wtk
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Awesome! The end is in sight :) I made a note about the [uruk] Uruk-hai Guard on the [isengard] Uruk Guard page, and wrote an Uruk-hai Guard article, since the two minions are almost identical. Added [isengard] warg-riders as a weakness on Boromir's page. Wrote an article for Moria Axe.
Added the armor clarification to Boromir RB's page too. Dunno if it needs to be on both cards, but I guess it can't hurt.
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Tuesday
No Stranger to the Shadows
Moria Scout
All Veils Removed
Beauty is Fading
Fear
Frozen By Fear
Their Power Is In Terror
Desperate Measures
Mordor Enraged [you are welcome, guys]
Mordor's Strength
Orc Inquisitor
Orc Hunters
Orc Scouting Band
Orc Soldier
Orc War Band
Wednesday
Armor
Boromir, Son of Denethor
Cruel Caradhras
Greed
Uruk Guard
Uruk Rager
Ulaire Otsea, Lieutenant of Morgul
The Dark Lord's Summons
Today might be a light effort, but let's see what we can accomplish:
An Able Guide
Frenzy
Goblin Domain
Goblin Marksman
Strength Born of Fear
Sam, Faithful Companion
Cheers,
-wtk
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Read through them today, adding a couple of notes to each. I didn't even realise until I read the article that Mordor Enraged had to be born by a minion, and even then I thought it was bad. I did note that it could give Sauron free exertions for Enduring though, so mentioned that.
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Did Uruk Spy. I've tried to use it a couple of times in the past, but no real luck. Not my most favourite card.
EDIT: Did Troop of Uruk-hai.
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Bred for Battle, Uruk Soldier and Orthanc Warrior.
EDIT: Goblin Wallcrawler
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Legolas, Dauntless Hunter
EDIT: Goblin Warrior
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Goblin Warrior; The Long Dark; Eomer, Eored Captain
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Goblin Sneak
Just did Strength of Kings. Not too sure what to think about this one - it looks okay (But very situational), so I gave it a fairly neutral review. I've heard some say it's a very bad card though, so perhaps I was too generous?
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Personally I think it's fine dictionary. Way to keep up the good work. :)
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The Shards of Narsil makes Strength of Kings a more than viable tool ;). Grab it to hand only when you need it, ideally with hand revealing cards to know when is that proper time. Added it, and fixed a wrong card title (!Treachery
runs Deeper Than You Know).
EDIT: Added "discard from hand" as a weakness.
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Thanks guys :) The discard from hand is a good point, as the player might be holding onto this event for some time. Did Undead of Angmar today. I do wish they had released more cards for [wraith] Wraiths.
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Thanks guys :)
:up: ;D
Did Undead of Angmar today.
I have little or nothing to add. All Barrow Wights get a lot of benefits from BNaP. That can be added at the Strong vs list (something like "Works well/wonders with Between Nazgul and Prey"). But then specifically Undead of Angmar must save his vitality until assignment (by not using the Shadow skill).
Besides, all [Wraith] Wraiths work well with Dark Swooping Shadows. And Undead of Angmar should work well too with Flung into the Fray.
I do wish they had released more cards for [wraith] Wraiths.
If those [Wraith] Wraiths had the Twilight keyword (and made reference to Twilight or [any culture] Wraith instead of [Wraith] Wraiths), that'd be enough. But Decipher didn't want us using old cards.
That was a big mistake, as players with old cards were excluded unless they bought a lot of new ones. By referring to Twilight minions, old players with the old Twilight Nazgul and [Sauron] Twilight wraiths and would have been very pleased to buy the Set 16 pack. #-o
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All Barrow Wights get a lot of benefits from BNaP. That can be added at the Strong vs list (something like "Works well/wonders with Between Nazgul and Prey"). But then specifically Undead of Angmar must save his vitality until assignment (by not using the Shadow skill).
Wrote article for Barrow-Wight Stalker. [wraith] Wraiths are a bit tricky to do because they're all so similar - as you pointed out BNaP is good for all of them. It's particularly good for the Stalker because it can't do anything else with its vitality (And has 4 vitality), so added it there. Not sure if it should go on the other pages too, or perhaps that's too repetitive (Reminds me of Ket's point about natural synergies.)
Similarly, the other cards like Dark Swooping Shadows and Flung into the Fray risk having the same problem. I added them to the Stalker's page for the moment - perhaps each wraith should mention different cards that work on [wraith] minions?
Agree on the Twilight keyword. It's a shame they made those decisions really, (I believe the lack of Battlegrounds in ROTK was a similar issue) - I think they spoiled the game a little bit.
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Ulaire Nelya, Lieutenant of Morgul and Sorry about Everything
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Nazgul Sword
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Orc Ambusher
EDIT: Sword of Minas Morgul
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Horse of Rohan
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Pathfinder*
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Horse of Rohan is also very useful with RB Rangers in TTT and onwards, as reduces the need of double exertions with Ranger's Bow, and get them access to good healing with Weland / Guma (+2x Well Stored). Some pumping with Leod too. That ally support helps Knights and UB rangers too.
Nazgul Sword is really useful with Toldea MoM. If you can trigger Toldea's skill, then the damage +1 will trigger too. Pair it with Drawn To Its Power... nasssty! But of course, you need first those 3 or 4 burdens. DTIP + either Attea LoDG or Lord of Angmar can get you some burdens to start with. Other cool Nazzies to carry this sword are Enquea ToTo and Nelya RiT.
Theorically, Pathfinder can play a Site 9 favorable to you (like Summit of Amon Hen if you counter burdens easily, or Tol Brandir to get a river for A Ranger's Versatility or Son of Thranduil, with Fearing the Worst to nullify its skill!), but there is the usual clogging issue. Then, the Shards of Narsil might come in handy. I've never seen/tried it anyway. Copy-paste Last Alliance decks is almost all I see regarding the rich and versatile [Gondor] culture in FOTR block :(.
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Agree on the Twilight keyword. It's a shame they made those decisions really, (I believe the lack of Battlegrounds in ROTK was a similar issue) - I think they spoiled the game a little bit.
Exactly! Most ROTK sites should have been battlegrounds. But then there would be more battlegrounds than in TTT block! I believe that scared them a bit:
Sites that should be Battleground:
1.- Isengard Ruined* (that's before Uruk Camp in TTT!)
2.- All sites 2, except for West Road
3.- All sites 3, except for The Dimholt
4.- All sites 4
5.- All sites 5, except for Steward's Tomb*
6 to 7.- All sites 6 & 7
8.- All, except perhaps for Northern Ithilien and Cross Roads
9.- Again, all sites 9.
Anyway, that's of little importance as the new minions were much more powerful than battleground Uruks. So the only thing they did was to spoil a previous culture #-o...
Wrote article for Barrow-Wight Stalker. [wraith] Wraiths are a bit tricky to do because they're all so similar - as you pointed out BNaP is good for all of them.
That's not totally true. BNaP needs 2 exertions, and the Dagorlad Wraiths (Dead Faces, Covetous Wisp & Candle Corpses) cannot exert twice. Other cards like DSS, FitF and Houses of Healing Houses of Lamentation, those are useful for all small and large [Wraith] Wraiths.
So you can have a template for Barrow Wights, and other for Dagorlad Wraiths, depending on their respective advantages and goals.
It's particularly good for the Stalker because it can't do anything else with its vitality (And has 4 vitality), so added it there. Not sure if it should go on the other pages too, or perhaps that's too repetitive (Reminds me of Ket's point about natural synergies.)
Similarly, the other cards like Dark Swooping Shadows and Flung into the Fray risk having the same problem. I added them to the Stalker's page for the moment - perhaps each wraith should mention different cards that work on [wraith] minions?
I don't think it would be useless, or even too repetitive. Those are only 6 cards, and Set 16 doesn't have a single support card for those 6 minions. So to beginners, it will be a pleasure to not be forced to search for every possible [Wraith] card that affects not Nazgul nor [Wraith] Orcs, but every [Wraith] minion.
Other mighty cards in that respect are Otsea LoM and Gates of the Dead City.
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Hi, I'm new here and just noticed that there is a card missing from the promotional list - or I've just missed it with maybe where I'm looking?
0P16 is Listed as Promotional but not as Foil.
There are 2 different version of 0P16 one standard and one Foil version.
Is this / should this be listed somewhere?
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As far as I know, we only list foil versions apart from non-foils if it has a different card number (i.e. Legends/Masterworks in the later sets). Otherwise, sets 1-8 and 10 would need a separate list of all their cards as foils.
That being said, 0Ps are a little different in that some were printed foil only, some were non-foil only, and some were both. My recommendation is to put a note on the card's page saying what version(s) that card had. I know that 0P16, 0P17, 0P18, and 0P22 all have foil and non-foil versions. I don't know if there were any others.
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@DurinsHeir: It's a real shame though, personally I find the ROTK site path a bit bland, especially since many of the sites all trigger off the same thing...
Wrote an article for Covetous Wisp. I know its ability costs twilight, so I guess stuff like Ambush would help there, but I don't know whether that's worth mentioning.
Where did the images for the Wights actually come from? They kinda look like artwork rather than film pictures, but they're cool nonetheless.
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The [Sauron] and [Wraith] Dagorlad Wights (that is, from set 6 and 16 respectively) appear in the Two Towers film. Only the Barrow Wights are artwork effectively, and have that cricket symbol in the lower right corner to represent that (just like Radagast or Tom Bombadil).
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Ah I see. Thanks for the info :)
Wrote article for The Choice of Luthien.
EDIT: A Host Avails Little
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All Blades Perish
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Ok guys so I just did Troll's Keyward but this is my first one so please give me some feedback and tell me how to improve it. Thanks!
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Ok guys so I just did Troll's Keyward but this is my first one so please give me some feedback and tell me how to improve it. Thanks!
Original text:
Troll's Keyward is a very specific card that is only used in specific decks. Typically, Moria orcs are used in swarm decks, however, Troll's Keyward is not very useful in a swarm deck as it costs 3 and doesn't have a special ability to help get more minions on the table. As a result, Troll's Keyward's is almost exclusively used with Cave Troll of Moria. Usually, one would carry several copies of each card in a deck order to play them both frequently. The only other use for Troll's Keyward would be to absorb pesky archery wounds as only a few Moria orcs (beside Goblin Flankers and Goblin Patrol Troop) have more than one vitality while Troll's Keyward has three. Of course not only can he absorb archery wounds but he can also exert; letting players use What is this New Devilry, or Through the Misty Mountains if one had a reason to.
Troll's Keyward is a very specific card that is only used in specific decks Redundant text. Typically, Moria orcs are used in swarm decks,(semicolon here, not comma) however, Troll's Keyward is not very useful in a swarm deck as it costs 3 and doesn't have a special ability to help get more minions on the table. Troll's Keyward actually is helpful for several reasons in Swarm...higher vitality, ability to use Moria Axe, etc. As a result, Troll's Keyward's is almost exclusively used with Cave Troll of Moria I would argue against exclusivity. But yes, mentioning the synergy is a key point in the article. Usually, one would carry several copies of each card in a deck order to play them both frequently. The onlyAnother use for Troll's Keyward would be to absorb pesky archery wounds as only a few Moria orcs (beside Goblin Flankers and Goblin Patrol Troop don't forget Moria Scout, Guard Commander, Ancient Chieftain, and Host of Moria, Legion of the Underdeeps if you are going to list them all, or you can just say something like, "besides minions such as...") have more than one vitality while Troll's Keyward has three. Of course not only can he absorb archery wounds but he can also exert; letting players use What is this New Devilry, Moria Axe, or Through the Misty Mountains if one had a reason to.
_____________________________ _____________________________ __________
I have mostly rewritten the article with most of your base points, dmessy. I don't intend to sound like a stickler, by any means. I hope I don't sound brutal and it's nice to have new people helping out.
Sorry I haven't been helping out with the wiki as much recently gang. Cheers,
-wtk
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Great info thanks ket the jet. That's exactly what I want to hear. I'll probably write an article or two now and then. However, I'm not as familiar with the game as you or Dictionary so you may have to clean them up somewhat. On another note, I still wouldn't use Troll's Keyward in a swarm deck. ;D Thanks again.
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Welcome Dmessy. There are never too many hands here!
Ket's points are true, nevertheless. The revised article seems very well. Except for one point: it's not true that Troll's Keyward is weak to high strength companions, as far as he bears a Moria Axe. Exerting twice = 14 str, dmg+1! Plus Dark Places, oh my... I know that's a 2-card combo, but he is meant to use the Moria Axe:
If your only goal is to play the Cave Troll, Goblin Runner is a much better option (Troll + Runner = 9 twilight; Troll + Keyward = 11 twilight). Cave Troll's Chain is better for archery protection too. Thus, the only real point in using the Keyward is to make him wield an Axe, and tear a companion's skull apart! ;). I usually pack 3x (besides 4x Scimitars), it works wonders.
Other 2 points to add:
- Works very well with Goblin Swarms. Just like Flankers and Patrol Troop, he's almost guaranteed to win a skirmish (if bearing the Axe).
- Troubled Mountains can use his vitality too. That's a great card for [Moria] burden decks based on Must Do Without Hope and/or Goblin Spear (btw, the Spear is a really viable burden machine when helped by Frenzy; such combo kills Boromir+Horn / Sam SoH / Greenleaf and gives you 1 or 2 burdens in the meanwhile!). Or for Sauron/Moria decks. Or LttG decks, but those usually have the extra vitality of Moria Scout or Moria Archer Troop to dispose.
Added such points. Hope this helps.
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Wow! Thanks for the info Durin's Heir!
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(https://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXEgG4UE.jpg&hash=699b67f6a11c13108ddce6cacfe79ed280a46914)
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Made a couple of minor changes, mostly just fixing links and grammar. Good article :)
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- Covetous Wisp: I've never tried, seen, nor read about it, but Covetous Wisp (and the other 2 [Wraith] Dagorlad Wights) should work well with Stooping to the Kill. If the FP player doesn't assign it, it'll be just like Bill Ferny SSF: a strength +4 aid, dmg+1 also if you have initiative (very perilous, as Stooping will make the other [Wraith] Wraith dmg+1 too). More Unbearable, Feel His Blade and Unhindered should help you to get initiative.
The main difference with Ferny is that the Dagorlad Wights need another Wraith on the board, so they can't be splashed to get such effect. Besides, pre-skirmish wounding (in absense of Spirit of Dread) can kill either that Covetous Wisp or the other Wraith supporting its skill.
Considering Bill Ferny SSF is banned R-listed in Expanded, Covetous Wisp might be the closest thing available for [Wraith] decks.
EDIT: Added the combo of Unhindered / Stooping to the Kill to Ferny SSF's article. And Caras Galadhon as a weakness.
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@DurinsHeir: Thanks, added Stooping to the Kill to Covetous Wisp, will probably mention that on Dead Faces as well. Bill Ferny, SSF is only R-listed in Expanded format according to Gemp though.
Wrote article for Golden Light on the Land.
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"Notes: Lists: ERL". You are right! It's stated on the Wiki article too. #-o Sorry. :-[
It's still unreliable being a sole card in the whole deck. But the info I added is not accurate, so it had to be corrected. Thank you!
Yes, Dead Faces should have it present. Perhaps Candle Corpses too, but having a str 8 self-assignable minion running unchecked seems enough to not evade its skill, there's little need of a damage bonus to scare the FP player.
That initiative-dependant combo can be used along with 2 other initiative-dependant cards: Gollum Plotting Deceiver and Let Her Deal With Them. So you can have a dmg+2 (!) Bill Ferny, aiding a dmg+2 Nazgûl, if you have initiative during the Shadow phase and remove [4] (to play Gollum and 2x LHDWT from discard pile). Use Saved From the Fire to burn Smeagol and get 1x Plotting Deceiver (or Captured by the Ring) and 2x LHDWT from the very start... :twisted:
Should that combo be added to Ferny's article? I believe it's too dense and long. But the combo of Plotting Deceiver + LHDWT (+ SftF perhaps) should be present in those [Gollum] cards' articles I guess...
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Did a major update to Elven Bow**'s article. Added many combos, strengths and weaknesses.
Cleared the article of Ranged Weapons (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/ranged). The article is a copy of the one for Hand Weapons (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/hand_weapon), apparently as a template of reference, but wasn't worked. For instance, it didn't listed a single Ranged weapon, but instead all Hand weapons. I fixed that, and removed from the lists all cards that refer to "hand weapons" instead of ranged weapons, or merely "weapons".
But that's only a little part of what it really needs. Needs to fix the narrative too, and the 2 other lists: "Cards that support Ranged Weapons" and "Cards that counter Ranged Weapons". In the first list, Naith Elves come to mind (but didn't add them added them). Added Fill With Fear and They Will Never Stop Hunting You to the second.
We must note that all texts that refer to a "weapon" and not to a "hand weapon", those must be listed as long as they have any card to affect. For instance, [Moria] Goblin Scavengers plays any [Moria] weapon from discard, but there isn't a single [Moria] ranged weapon to play, so it mustn't be included.
Other important point is that there isn't a single Ranged Weapon artifact, all are possessions. So they all are weak to possession hate.
EDIT: Added Naith Elves and Grond to the Ranged Weapons article.
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Just did Uruk Messenger. Doctor it up in any way needed.
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Very nice article Dmessy :) I tweaked the last sentence a bit, adding Saruman, KoI to prevent wounds. Also removed the empty Example Decks and similar brackets.
@DurinsHeir: I agree, I think that combo should go on the [gollum] cards. Will aim to get them done in the near future so we don't forget. You've reminded me of an important point with the Elven Bow: do you think it would be better to talk about Fellowship strategies on the Fellowship version, and The Two Towers on The Two Towers version, or should we have all of the strategies on the Fellowship version and then have the other versions reference that card (Like what was done for cards such as Gimli, Son of Gloin (P))? I prefer the latter personally.
That ranged weapon article looks interesting, I'll try and take a look at it soon and add any combos I can think of.
EDIT: Going by what's on the Hand Weapon page, it seems only cards that specifically reference "Hand Weapons" and occasionally "Weapons" have been listed, which wouldn't leave many options for the Ranged Weapons page because Ranged Weapons are not referenced very often. For example, Grond counters almost all support cards, but isn't listed on the Hand Weapon counters, because it doesn't specifically mention weapons.
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@Dmessy: Cool article. I see very little that might be added. In Movie block, you lose access to Saruman KoI's protection, but you get access to Gollum (high vitality) and 2 of his tricks: Sweeter Meats and Final Strike. Perhaps that's worth mentioning, or perhaps not. Final Strike helps to prevent directed arrows, but will also shield you against Vilya.
@Dictionary: Yes, there are very little cards that refer to "ranged weapons" specifically. But those that refer to any "weapon" and can interact with "ranged weapons" that suit their specifications, those cards must be included. Cantea, LoDG and Stricken Dumb are examples, and are present both the Hand weapon and the Ranged weapon articles.
The Hand weapon article mentions only cards that refer to "weapons" or "hand weapons", but should list Grond HotU too as it counters any non-companion FP card. The Wiki is meant to help beginners and those with less knowlegde, to them that info will be very valuable.
That article has many errors and unnecessary info. I don't take it as an ideal reference, just as a template of what has been done before (apparently was made by a machine mostly). For instance Hand Axe, Flaming Brand and The Balrog's Sword are listed as "Cards that support Hand Weapons" only because can be borne with another hand weapon #-o. I'll list them as a separate category: "Hand Weapons that can be borne with another Hand Weapon", or something similar. Another error: Isengard Axe says "when you play this weapon, add [1]" and for that superficial wording was included as a "card that supports hand weapons" :-?. Anduril FotW is meantioned as a card that supports hand weapons, but counters yours in fact...
The article lists 1st the "support cards", 2nd the "counter cards", and 3rd the real "hand weapon possession / artifacts" appear. That's another mistake, which makes it much harder to read.
Some "Cards that support possession weapons" can be listed too, in a separate list. That includes Armory and Ecglaf, or Gamling Warrior of Rohan and Rohirrim Scout. Or Sword Rack, Simbelmyne, even These Are My People... Those form very devastating engines to work with weapons (but the only sin they commit is to mention "possessions" instead of "weapons"). Those should be mentioned for the sake of beginners and curious deckbuilders. Which is the goal of the Wiki, I think. ;)
Copy-pasters have the posts on "Lothlórien" to read, that's more than enough for them. :lol:
All in all, we must reform those articles. I'll try to work on those points mentioned. And thanks for the feedback!! ;D
EDIT: Worked all points mentioned on Hand Weapons, except creating the new lists of "Cards that support Possession Hand Weapons" and "Cards that counter Possession Hand Weapons".
- Elven Bow I think the same. The FOTR Elven Bow** should be the only with a narration and Strong/Weak vs lists. If we split it into each format's reprint, readers may not get important information they are searching for, if they click on the link of a version of another format. Besides, it's much simpler. ;)
Yes, Gimli Son of Gloin (P) is a good example!
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To the Ranged Weapons article, added all [Rohan] cards that interact with possessions (because all Ranged Weapons are possessions). The list got a bit bulky, will have to include classifications to make that info easier to understand and use.
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Updated all Elven Bow and Hobbit Sword articles with the appropriate reference message, using Gimli, Son of Gloin (P) as a base (or Frodo, Mr. Underhill as a base in the case of Elven Bow*). Also mentioned Little Golden Flower on the Hobbit Sword article.
@Durin's Heir: I really like your analysis :). So, would you say that Glorfindel, Eldarin Lord is a counter to Hand Weapons? He works against all possessions, but with many Hand Weapons adding strength, it would seem to fit into the scope of the article. Also, what about cards that reduce the archery total (Such as Great Shield)? Are these counters to Ranged Weapons? Many Ranged Weapons make their bearer an archer, and some (such as Southron Bow) have archery related text, while others such as Bow of the Galadhrim actually have nothing to do with archery :-|
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Great work for Hobbit Sword! =D> You missed the Set 11 version of Hobbit Sword*. Changed it, the way you did with Set 4 Elven Bow* ('cause its rarity is "S" instead of "C").
Little Golden Flower is a nice card for many strange combos. Can add vitality to allies! With Melilot Brandybuck is a strange way to counter burdens (Melilot works very well protecting Spirit of the White Tree). The extra vitality and bearing a weapon are good incentives to use Hobbit Sword-play. Hobbit Hospitals can wound that way, using the (new) vitality of allies...
@Durin's Heir: I really like your analysis :). So, would you say that Glorfindel, Eldarin Lord is a counter to Hand Weapons? He works against all possessions, but with many Hand Weapons adding strength, it would seem to fit into the scope of the article.
Thanks! Yes, Eldarin Lord should be listed in "Cards that counter Hand Weapon possessions" (he won't counter Sceptre of the Dark Lord nor The Balrog's Sword). If a card counters "possessions" (instead of "weapons" and "artifacts"), it must be listed with that specification.
Also, what about cards that reduce the archery total (Such as Great Shield)? Are these counters to Ranged Weapons? Many Ranged Weapons make their bearer an archer, and some (such as Southron Bow) have archery related text, while others such as Bow of the Galadhrim actually have nothing to do with archery :-|
Yes again, but not exactly that way: Great Shield and similars (Elven Cloak, Pinned Down, Uruk Hai Armory...) should be listed as "Cards that counter Archers and Archery Total" or something like that. Not as cards that "Counter Ranged Weapons" but as counters to that recurrent (tough not universal) goal and effect of ranged weapons. Even Blood of Numenor and Fill With Fear can be listed in such different list. And Their Arrows Enrage, Malice...
"Cards that support Archers and Archery total" would be Gondor Bowmen, Orc Bowmen, Aegnor, Double Shot...
Bow of the Galadhrim works in skirmish, so those cards that "counter archers and archery total" won't have any effect against it. But those that "counter Ranged Weapon Possessions" will do. Ranger's Bow is another example. Faramir's Bow works in skirmish and archery, so will be target of both categories.
EDIT: Worked all those points into the Ranged Weapons article (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/ranged). Of course, there's a lot of cards left to add, but the article is taking a completely different shape with short explanative texts, much more to my liking. I'd like you guys to see it and give me your opinion. Thanks in advance!
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Amazing! I much prefer your layout Durin's Heir, I think it's a big improvement on the old template :up:. Thanks for fixing my Hobbit Sword lapse, there were so many reprints of that card :o
Wrote articles for Change of Plans and Little Golden Flower. The latter has a bit of overlap with other combo cards like Everyone Knows and Scouring of the Shire, but hopefully it's okay. I guess Little Golden Flower affects Ted Sandyman too, but I think most other [shire] cards do as well, so I guess that should be mentioned on his article instead.
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Neat articles! Succint is the word for Little Golden Flower's. Yes, it affects Sandyman, but is better to specify that in his own article as you say.
Change of Plans is powerful against events of the sort of The Trees Are Strong (!) and Fires and Foul Fumes (!!!). Of course, being a situational card The Shards of Narsil should help a lot. Also can help to make Stern People a viable tool (in theory should work well with The White Arrows of Lorien, to make you discard less cards from your hand); you can use multiple copies of Stern People, and then shuffle all drawn cards with only 1x Change of Plans (We Must Go Warily can then lend its help too).
Amazing! I much prefer your layout Durin's Heir, I think it's a big improvement on the old template :up:. Thanks for fixing my Hobbit Sword lapse, there were so many reprints of that card :o
Thank you my fellow ;D! It will take some time to include each and every card that fits the new, broader criteria. A bunch each week, and in some time will be totally done (for the sake of curiosity and deckbuilding!). You can help me with the narration that explains the new lists, my English is functional but not much more (Spanish is my first language) ;).
The idea is to work the Hand Weapons one after finishing the current. It will be much easier nonetheless, because hand weapons don't interact with intrincate sums like archery totals; thus it'll have less lists.
About Hobbit Sword, it was a pleasure! I wonder how many other cards were reprinted. I know Long-knives of Legolas, Dwarven Bracers, Betrayal of Isengard and Elendil's Valor were, but there's probably more.
EDIT: Updated the reprints of Dwarven Bracers, Long-knives of Legolas, Betrayal of Isengard and Elendil's Valor.
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Intimidate. Wizard Staff. Have Patience. Noble Intentions. Dagger Strike. Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith. Elven Bow. Uruk-Hai Raiding Party. Their Power Is in Terror.
Cheers,
-wtk
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And Pippin Hobbit of Some Intelligence. Thanks Ket! Updated them all. :up: :)
Note: Did also all reprints of The Ruling Ring****. The last 2 state "he or she" instead of "he", due to the inclusion of Galadriel BoW, included it in those articles.
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@Durin's Heir: Nice work on those cards, I think they look a lot better now. I updated Change of Plans with your points, save for the Stern People point, as I wasn't sure as to whether that might belong it its own article. Then again, Change of Plans has a fairly small article, so perhaps it should go in both?
Wrote article for Under the Watching Eye. I did talk a bit about condition discard for this particular article, as I think it has a greater impact on this condition than most, particularly in Fellowship Block.
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And Pippin Hobbit of Some Intelligence. Thanks Ket! Updated them all. :up: :)
Note: Did also all reprints of The Ruling Ring****. The last 2 state "he or she" instead of "he", due to the inclusion of Galadriel BoW, included it in those articles.
Also Desert Spearman and Desert Soldier.
-wtk
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@Ket_the_jet_: Thanks again Ket! :up: Did those 2, and others I found using the search function: Orc Butcher, Ent Avenger, A Promise, Mysterious Wizard, Pathfinder, Defiance, Nobody Tosses A Dwarf, In the Ringwraith's Wake and Drawn To Its Power. Both versions of Drawn to its Power lacked the reference to "Other Prints".
@Dictonary: Yes, Change of Plans' article seems to have room for a small mention to Stern People. Should mention also No Safe Places, and perhaps a reference to the Fruit Loops combo used in Open format (a link to a decklist would be great!).
Stern People's article should reference cards like Change of Plans + hand discard (The White Arrows of Lorien, Ancient Enmity, No Safe Places), because the card is too dangerous by itself alone for the benefit it brings. The only way it'll be used is by specifying the way to avoid/reduce its heavy cost, and that requires both hand discard at any phase (to allow you to use it by discarding less cards), and hand shuffling/hand discard during regroup (to weaken/destroy the reinforcing cards from discard pile).
Neat article for UtWE :up: ;D. In Towers Standard and King Standard, it's AWESOME with I'd Make You Squeak, and even better with the addition of You Bring Great Evil. I believe you should mention that combo in a small new paragraph.
UtWE suffers alike Goblin Armory from condition discard, as both rely on numbers. But UtWE suffers even more, the same way as Thin and Stretched and You Bring Great Evil: it's totally useless at site 9, and of little use at sites 7 and 8. Therefore, a reference to Orc Guard can be done: the Guard can use those otherwise useless cards in play to get rid of annoying/disruptive FP conditions.
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That initiative-dependant combo can be used along with 2 other initiative-dependant cards: Gollum Plotting Deceiver and Let Her Deal With Them. So you can have a dmg+2 (!) Bill Ferny, aiding a dmg+2 Nazgûl, if you have initiative during the Shadow phase and remove [4] (to play Gollum and 2x LHDWT from discard pile). Use Saved From the Fire to burn Smeagol and get 1x Plotting Deceiver (or Captured by the Ring) and 2x LHDWT from the very start... :twisted:
Wrote article for Gollum, Plotting Deceiver, let me know what you think. Also updated Under the Watching Eye with your points.
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Just did They are Coming. Not so sure about this one. I had no idea what to put under "Strong Versus" so please put something there. Thanks.
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Expanded the strategy a bit for They are Coming and filled in other sections.
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Dunlending Brigand and Dunlending Madman.
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Lothlorien Woods and Shadow's Reach
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Dark Fury
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Updated Change of Plans and wrote article for Blade of Gondor.
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I've been very busy lately, and that probably won't change soon :(, so this is all I can add by now.
The article of Blade of Gondor has a small error (can't be borne along with Narsil), but is really good regardless of it. I'd add these points:
- the best version of Boromir to wield it is Defender of Minas Tirith due to massive healing (but Lord of Gondor -KiE and Hard Choice- and Bearer of Council can use it well too). Other ways to get healing are Men of Numenor and Elrond HtGG, which besides are awesome for double moves (a weak point of DoMT); those are great for Horn of Boromir too.
- it combos really well with Elendil's Valor (or Wielder of the Flame) for obvious reasons (you face 2 orcs/uruks just to kill 1 by direct wound and the other by strength :twisted:)
- it's good against not only beatdown but swarm too (Goblin Backstabber hates it!), moreover if following the previous tip.
- with Bearer of Council (as RB), Ranger's Bow will cover the weakness to Man minions (or to all minions if roaming, to achieve that use Gondorian Ranger or Man the Walls / ranger fortifications / New Errand), which is really cool for RB Ranger decks. Besides, BoC using ATAR means a really mean vitality of 5 to abuse those weapons, if you can prevent the wounds (Arwen Elven Rider, Unknown Perils, SotWT), heal them (Banner of Westernesse, TSC) or manage the burdens.
- Proud and Noble Man + Prancing Pony can play it from the very start (Expanded).
- is weak to You Bring Great Evil, Desperate Defense of the Ring and Wounded (and to some extent, Black Breath and Black Dart).
- weak also to Saruman KoI and Isengard Shaman.
- obviously weak to weapon/possession discard (Cantea LoDG), but Isengard Smith has little power over it.
- weak to Saruman's Snows (but the mighty Boromir's Cloak can counter that).
All in all, it's one of the best cards ever released! So the article can be expanded a lot.
As said above, that's all my twisted, sleepless mind can vomit by now ;). Cheers my friends!
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Updated and re-structured. Thanks for the input, that card definitely has one of the more comprehensive articles now ;D
I'm also pretty busy, have slowed down in writing, but I still try to do a card every few days. One day we'll get Fellowship set 1 done ;)
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A Ranger's Versatility.
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Wrote article for Gondor's Vengeance, which was the last [Gondor] card in set 1 with no strategy. That leaves only [shire] for the Free Peoples cards.
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Uruk Savage and Uruk-hai Rampage.
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Uruk Slayer
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King's Mail, Lockbearer and Hearken to Me.
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Added a thing about King's Mail: can be discarded by Charged Headlong or Unyielding to allow Théoden to absorb threats. Charged Headlong is especially useful, as it can bounce the Mail from one skirmish to the other (if in discard pile and not in play), protecting any Rohan guy in a perilous spot.
I wonder if Hearken to Me discards only the conditions borne by Théoden when played, or keeps discarding it while bearing it. The literal meaning says the latter, but I still don't know what's Decipher's rule here.
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That's an interesting point about Hearken to Me, I've never thought of it that way. I suppose you could draw a similar parallel with cards like Flame of the West. On a technical level I tend to agree with you, but wouldn't it make the following line of both cards redundant?
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The CRD says nothing about :-S... It would be mentioned in "Section Three: Individual Card Rulings", but there's nothing:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/comprehensive_rules_4-0
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/current_rulings_document
To remove all double interpretations, they needed to write it in either of these ways:
"When you play this, discard all Shadow conditions on Théoden.", or
"While bearing this, discard all Shadow conditions on Théoden." (without needing the second part: "Shadow conditions cannot be played on Théoden")
But they did a strange middle point with that 2nd text :(. Now, damage adding weapons like Gimli's Battle Axe say "He is damage +1", not "While bearing this weapon, Gimli is damage +1", so I believe permanent effects don't need to specify their permanency. But that case is obvious, there is no possible second interpretation: that card is played at Fellowship phase, where damage is irrelevant. Common sense discards what lacks sense. The 2nd text of Hearken to Me opens a possible 2nd interpretation :(: "if the 2nd text says that, it might mean the 1st doesn't cover that possibility"...
If the effect is permanent as I believe, the only conscious intention I can see to specify "Shadow conditions may not be played on Théoden" is to prevent unaware Shadow players from wasting their conditions on Théoden (and thus prevent some NPE). That, in case they were fully conscious of each possible implication, AND used "logical economy"(not saying anything unnecessary, in an irreductible number of statements), which I don't believe.
I thought about Flame of the West too, but I believe that's a clarification of a previous double interpretation (it's from 3 Sets later). Just like Set 5 berserkers and the only one of Set 6 (both mean the same, but the latter doesn't have double interpretations):
(5U45): "Berserk Rager is strength +1 for each wound on a character in its skirmish."
(6R60): "Berserk Butcher is strength +1 for each wound on each character in its skirmish."
Again, the CRD doesn't even mention the existance of Hearken to Me.
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They may also have intended to preserve design-space for future shadow conditions that did something when they came into and/or left play
(hypothetically:
1 •Lesser Son of Greater Sires [Isengard]
Condition
Resistance: -2
Plays on a [Rohan] companion. When you play Lesser Son of Greater Sires, exert bearer
"What is the house of Rohan, but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek and their brats roll on the floor with the dogs?! The victory at Helm's Deep does not belong to you, Théoden Horsemaster. You are a lesser son of greater sires.")
The last line of HtM will save Théoden from being exerted, where just a constant "Discard all shadow conditions borne by Théoden" would only save him from the Resistance -2
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The last line of Hearken to Me isn't necessary to prevent the exertion, due to the existance of a discard rule that makes effects like Goblin Runner adding [2] don't apply when the Runner is immediatly discarded (by Durin's Bane or Watcher in the Water). So Lesser Son of Greater Sires is discarded before any exertion can happen:
"If a card is discarded when it comes into play, ignore any effects triggered when it comes into play. This includes effects from a minion’s own game text (such as “When you play this minion…”) and effects from other cards in play (such as “Each time you play…”)."
If that specific rule didn't exist, yes, the last line would cover a gap. Perhaps that rule didn't exist at the time Hearken to Me was released.
Now, there is at least one condition that does a thing only when played/transferred to a companion: Feel His Blade. Following your thought, Feel His Blade can still be transferred to Théoden but is then immediatly discarded; the Shadow still gains initiative for the whole turn, but other effects like Lemenya LoM and Mind and Body are blocked by Hearken to Me.
Air Power, thanks for your addition. :up: And your dream card is cool, you might develop it more and post it in Dictionary's Isengard Men (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9377.0.html).
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I suppose part of the issue with Hearken to Me is because the second line doesn't completely prevent Theoden from getting shadow conditions in the first place, as Blade Tip and other transferable conditions ignore it.
However, if the first line applies all the time, then conditions like Blade Tip are useless against Theoden, whereas if it only works when played, they would still be effective (Which is what I put in the article).
Perhaps the question should be brought up in the Archives? I'm pretty sure Blade Tip and similar are effective against Theoden with Hearken to Me on Gemp, although naturally that doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct interpretation.
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Occured to me recently that Shadowfax, GotM would have the same problem as Hearken to me, as it discards possessions but only prevents the bearing of hand weapons. Found the following thread on the subject in the Archives: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,2872.0.html which would seem to cover Hearken to Me as well.
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Alright then! Decipher had a really poor wording with both, but is now clear that conditions on Théoden are discarded only when HtM is played.
Since GotM is a card of set 17, they had a lot of time to enhance the wording or to clarificate Hearken to Me. But at least is now clear to us ;).
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I wonder if I should add a note about that to the card, or whether it would just clutter up the article? I feel like it would take quite a bit of explaining if I added that...
Did a short article for Get Back. I'm still on and off on the article posting, but I'm aiming to do some more cards from sets 4-19 for the future, as a lot of the remaining Fellowship cards are a bit lacklustre.
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If the note is short and goes at "Rules and Clarifications", that won't cause any problem I believe. Something around "The line 'Discard all Shadow conditions on Théoden' works only when playing this card; hence, Shadow conditions transfered to Théoden won't be discarded by it".
There's also many uninspired cards in sets 4 to 19 ;). But I get you, and agree that staying almost exclusively on the first block will delay unnecessarily the development of guides to other formats.
But dull cards have sometimes useful combos. Get Back can save weak trackers that are there for Ugluk to spot, and those who survive can prevent double moves or feed Attack on Helm's Deep. That's especially true for set 2 Uruk Scout (another dull card), who isn't fierce. Of course is much better for Uruk Plains Runner, but if you also pack the Scout for its penalty reduction or damage bonus (a surprise with Vengeance), Get Back will have a different usefulness with it.
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Added that line, with a bit of extra detail to explain why I was linking to a Shadowfax article. Hopefully it looks okay. Also put something similar on GotM's page.
Those Get Back ideas are brilliant ;D Despite appearing to be a pretty weak card at first glance, I feel like it has a lot of hidden versatility. I especially like the point with Ugluk, I rarely see that minion with a damage bonus, but Get Back would help a lot in that regard.
Wrote article for Toss Me.
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Your explanation seems good to me. :up:
Yes, Get Back seems counterproductive at first sight! But is really useful if you are facing tanks or direct skirmish wounding (Cliffs of Emyn Muil, Ranger's Bow), and is cost free (if Dauntless Hunter isn't present; add it to the Weak vs list). You can use a cost 5 or 6 tracker with a cheap one, and use Get Back on the cheap to mantain Ugluk as a str 12 dmg+1 beast! Mauhur Patrol Leader can also prevent FP tanks from sweeping the board, but is too slow against mid-skirmish wounding, or often too costly (you need to save him AND the cheap tracker = [7]; that's the same cost of Uruk Hunter + another Uruk Plains Runner).
Good article for Toss Me! Another cool synergy is with Courtesy of My Hall to stack it from discard (and have emergency healing), and Axe of Erebor + Defending the Keep to discard it and get it back again. There's also Suspended Palaces to stack Toss Me from hand on your [Dwarven] condition, preferably on Courtesy if you think you may need the healing... On Your Doorstep can also set it right for Suspended Palaces or More to My Liking to grab.
On Your Doorstep is cool with Strands of Elven Hair or Elrond, Keeper of Vilya! Even better with also Must Be A Dream, as you already mentioned. ;)
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I'm tempted to try a Get Back deck now, but Dauntless Hunter really hurts that card. I usually favour possessions over events in TTT for that very reason.
I'm glad you like the Toss Me article, I am quite fond of that card, although I've never found it much use after Towers Standard.
Updated the articles, and wrote article for The White Wizard. I feel there's a tonne of stuff that can be said for that Gandalf, but I'm out of ideas for now.
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Goblin Scrabbler is surprisingly good against DH decks: discards key cards like the Tale of Gil-Galad, the Splendor of Their Banners or a TLAOEAM on Aragorn by a mere cost of 1, while taking an arrow or joining a swarm force. 2x or maybe 3x Scrabbler will be a good backup against DH.
Saruman SotE (another cool assignment card) can assign Legolas to a strong Uruk (preferably with a dmg bonus), or to himself if you pack 1 or 2 copies of his staff. Some Towers Block sites like White Mountains can help to get wounds on companions, as Saruman's skill is much better targeting companions with less than 4 vitality.
The White Wizard is also extremely good with TMAYOD. Other cards that synergize with him are Focus of Power, Undaunted and Fury of the White Rider. And don't forget Down From the Hills (str 15 def+1 dmg+2 + weapon/mount)!
EDIT: Expanded the narration and tips in The White Wizard's article. The previous version explained lots of ways to trigger his skill, but nothing about the potential of that skill.
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Thanks for the improvements, that article looks a lot more comprehensive now ;D
A short article for Steward's Tomb is up. Might add some more detail later, although I'm not sure what things I should add that aren't a bit obvious.
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Wrote article for Let Us Be Swift. Aside from this and Fortress Never Fallen, are there any other [rohan] cards that can discard conditions?
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Wrote article for Let Us Be Swift. Aside from this and Fortress Never Fallen, are there any other [rohan] cards that can discard conditions?
Firefoot, Eomer's Steed comes to mind. Arrow-Slits discards machines.
Cheers,
-wtk
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I thought the "and liberate a site" was a requirement to discard conditions (making it useless against shadow decks without site control), but apparently it's optional? Thanks for all the work on the wiki!
Wrote article for Let Us Be Swift. Aside from this and Fortress Never Fallen, are there any other [rohan] cards that can discard conditions?
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I thought the "and liberate a site" was a requirement to discard conditions (making it useless against shadow decks without site control), but apparently it's optional? Thanks for all the work on the wiki!
As I understand LOTR, as long as you pay all of the costs to play a card, you then do as much of the effect as possible, even if you can't do everything. I believe there's an exception for playing cards from your discard pile, though.
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Firefoot, Eomer's Steed comes to mind. Arrow-Slits discards machines.
I had totally forgotten about Firefoot. I had used that card in the past without much success, but it would work really well with Dinendal, Silent Scout.
@nielsd1981: What Air Power said. Because the liberate site bit is part of the effect and not the cost, the card is okay to play without any sites being controlled.
@Durin's Heir: Thank you for your continuing work on the Ranged Weapon article. I added Brand, KoD; Gondor Bowmen and Frenzy of Arrows to the "Cards that Support Archers and Archery Fire" section.
EDIT: Article written for Hard Choice.
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Article written for Treebeard, Earthborn.
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Earthborn doesn't prevent the discarding of Merry/Pippin, it only stacks them instead. The CRD says: "When a card uses the phrase “instead” or “instead of”, the stated effect is replaced with a different effect. This does not mean that the original effect is prevented."
So you can still use Earthborn's skill with a card that costs you to discard a hobbit (like Diversion).
Also, technically Earthborn can be targeted by OWMWF but that will only pump him, without allowing him to fight.
@Durin's Heir: Thank you for your continuing work on the Ranged Weapon article. I added Brand, KoD; Gondor Bowmen and Frenzy of Arrows to the "Cards that Support Archers and Archery Fire" section.
You're welcome, my friend. And thanks for adding your part. I've been very busy lately, and at some point forgot totally about the Ranged Weapons article...
As I understand LOTR, as long as you pay all of the costs to play a card, you then do as much of the effect as possible, even if you can't do everything. I believe there's an exception for playing cards from your discard pile, though.
Yes, there's an exception when playing cards from hand or from discard pile, in those cases the card must be in that location first (and thus you are forced to play it).
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Wait, so if I discard Merry, Unquenchable Hobbit from play, then stack him on Treebeard, he still removes a [sauron] Orc from a skirmish? Wow that's a pretty big thing for me to get wrong. As you said, I must be mixing up prevent and instead. But wouldn't that also mean I can use Saved from the Fire and Elessar's Edict to grab cards without killing anyone?
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My understanding is that Merry, Unquenchable Hobbit and Pippin, Just a Nuisance do not remove the minions from skirmishes unless they end up in the discard pile. You are discarding the companion to complete the action of removing the minion; if you interrupt the discard, the action is not completed.
That is also the way it plays on Gemp, by the way.
-wtk
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On Elessar's Edict: That doesnt work becasue SFTF doesnt kill, just place in dead pile.
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On Elessar's Edict: That doesnt work becasue SFTF doesnt kill, just place in dead pile.
I'm pretty sure the Comprehensive Rules say that "placed in the dead pile" and "killed" are the same thing.
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The query about Treebeard and Pippin, Just a Nuisance came up again in the Gemp lobby today, it seems to be a fairly popular question.
I gave my original response to this (No effect, because hobbit was stacked on Treebeard), but only because that is what Gemp does. The ruling Durin's Heir pointed out has me stumped:
"When a card uses the phrase “instead” or “instead of”, the stated effect is replaced with a different effect. This does not mean that the original effect is prevented."
I have tried several different searches in the archives, but not found anything that fully addresses the question in my opinion. A similar example is whether Faramir, BoQ can use his ability (Wound him to make a minion roaming) and take a burden instead with The One Ring. This is raised here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,1665.0.html but most of the discussion is about Boromir, BoC, who is a different case.
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I think Stewards Tomb gives a hint to solve the issue. Stewards Tomb negates the prevention of wounds. But because The One Ring does take burdens instead of wounds, it can still work at that site and no prevention is negated. So technically, your Ringbearer would still be wounded, but a burden is added in the place of that wound token.
So Pippin JaN would still be discarded, but placed under Treebeard Earthborn instead of the discard pile. And thus the cost would still be paid, and the effect would still happen.
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You make a compelling argument, I think I'm sold :)
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@Durin's Heir: Thank you for your continuing work on the Ranged Weapon article. I added Brand, KoD; Gondor Bowmen and Frenzy of Arrows to the "Cards that Support Archers and Archery Fire" section.
I'm fairly sure that with its erratum, Frenzy of Arrows does not support anything at all, as far as I know, it is impossible to give the archer keyword to an [orc] minion.
I'm pretty sure the Comprehensive Rules say that "placed in the dead pile" and "killed" are the same thing.
Yup, that's why Tall and Proud is my favourite SFTF target.
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I'm fairly sure that with its erratum, Frenzy of Arrows does not support anything at all, as far as I know, it is impossible to give the archer keyword to an [orc] minion.
Heh, that's true. But the card in principle still supports archery, it just can't be played. I guess I could take it out, it's not exactly useful information.
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Adjusted the Boromir, Bearer of Council Rules and Clarifications after a discussion I had with Merrick_H on Gemp today. Also vastly expanded the Frodo, Son of Drogo article.
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Adjusted the Boromir, Bearer of Council Rules and Clarifications after a discussion I had with Merrick_H on Gemp today. Also vastly expanded the Frodo, Son of Drogo article.
One paragraph seems a little off to me, but I may very well be misreading it:
"Son of Drogo's ability is however quite powerful when used in Pipe decks, as he and Frodo's Pipe can conserve Pipeweed cards by having Frodo absorb the wounds of other wounded companions with the Frodo signet, then 1 pipeweed can be used to heal multiple wounds on Frodo. "
It looks like this has swapped the cost and effect of Frodo's skill. Perhaps it was meant for Aragorn's pipe?
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Yes, I think it should be that you load all of Frodo's wounds to another companion with a Frodo signet, and heal that companion.
I'd say that this Frodo is strong against You Bring Great Evil, not weak. Other Frodos will be stuck with those wounds, but this one can get them healed off at other sites.
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I've never used pipe decks, must have gotten muddled when I was trying to re-word the first part of the article.
I rewrote the bit about the pipeweed, trying to make it more generic. Hopefully it is clearer now.
Removed the weak vs heal prevention bit, Legion is completely right about You Bring Great Evil, and I wouldn't say Frodo is especially weak to Black Breath either (Not likely to get it in the first place).
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You make a compelling argument, I think I'm sold :)
The "Earthborn + Pippin JaN / Merry UH" case is about cost: the prevention of a cost prevents also the effect of the action, but doing something instead of the original cost only modifies that cost without preventing it. The cost still happens, then too the effect.
We must note that this is subtly but substantially different from the "Sapling vs Isildur wears the One Ring" case. Such case is not about cost but about trigger: if the situation that is about to trigger an action disappears, that action can't be triggered.
Is also about "required vs optional" timing: required actions always happen first, then optional actions take place. The One Ring must turn wounds into burdens, that happens before the optional action of Sapling: "Because the required action of The One Ring causes a burden to be added “instead” of a wound, the optional action of Sapling of the White Tree cannot be used, as the situation it responds to no longer exists."
Then Elessar's Edict should allow you to grab 3 [Gondor] cards without burning a [Gondor] Wraith. That's not true, as the corrected version of Elessar's Edict says "prevent" and not "instead". It's a hard combo anyway: spot Gandhi and 2+ [Gondor] Wraiths, having both Elessar's Edict and SFtF on hand. The Shards of Narsil and Mr. Butterbur can help you to get those (but watch out with the Rule of 4!)...
If Gemp acts this or that way, it can't be considered a reliable reference. Although that might be no business of ours, moreover if we're riders in black... ;)
EDIT: Added some weaknesses (Stairs of Khazad-Dum and choke) to Cave Troll SotBP's article.
EDIT #2: Corrected the point about Elessar's Edict.
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Made some additions to the following articles:
- Greenleaf & Aragorn's Bow: expanded strengths (vs archery reduction and Ugluk SoS) and weaknesses (vs archery abilities prevention, wound prevention and archer hate)
- The Splendor of Their Banners & The White Arrows of Lorien (interactions with SotBR and RBoW, weakness to possession/weapon discard and archery abilities prevention)
- Songs of the Blessed Realm (interaction with RBoW, Bilbo WSG, Voice of Nimrodel and The Shire Countryside)
- Relentless Charge (weak to wound prevention and Shoulder to Shoulder, strong vs TSotB and TWAoL)
- Ranged Weapons article (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/ranged) (added counters: Corsair Marauder, Line of Defense, High Vantage and Hillman Horde)
EDIT: Created article for Banner of the White Tree, and expanded Elendil's Valor and Valiant Man of the West.
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Then Elessar's Edict should allow you to grab 3 Gondor cards without burning a Gondor Wraith. It's a hard combo anyway: spot Gandhi and 2+ Gondor Wraiths, having both Elessar's Edict and SFtF on hand. The Shards of Narsil and Mr. Butterbur can help you to get those...
Yeah I don't think it's necessarily a good idea, but it's certainly interesting, feels like a way of getting around a big disadvantage of Saved from the Fire.
I do agree that Gemp is not perfect, but it does represent MarcinS' opinion on some of the rules, and he did do a lot of research on various subjects, so I would say that Gemp provides evidence towards a certain viewpoint, although it's not a conclusive proof.
Wrote article for Ted Sandyman.
Ranged Weapons article: Added North Undeep and Rohan Uplands to archery counters. Added Orkish Archer Troop to archery support. Added [man] culture to archery support: Fletcher of Harad, Archer of Harad, Precision Targeting, Elevated Fire, Voice of the Desert, Desert Wind, Grieving the Fallen.
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Then Elessar's Edict should allow you to grab 3 Gondor cards without burning a Gondor Wraith. It's a hard combo anyway: spot Gandhi and 2+ Gondor Wraiths, having both Elessar's Edict and SFtF on hand. The Shards of Narsil and Mr. Butterbur can help you to get those...
I don't believe this would be the case, since you haven't put anyone in the dead pile here and, as with Treebeard and Merry or Pippin, haven't paid the cost anymore. Even if the text of SFtF had been "kill," Elessar's Edict is an "instead of" action, replacing the original effect.
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Ted Sandyman's looks great! And thank you for the Ranged Weapons article additions. Little by little, we're approaching to the goal of having all concerning cards mentioned.
Yeah I don't think it's necessarily a good idea, but it's certainly interesting, feels like a way of getting around a big disadvantage of Saved from the Fire.
Can also be a way to evade triggering threat wounds, if things are complicated. ;) EDIT: Not valid, see below.
I do agree that Gemp is not perfect, but it does represent MarcinS' opinion on some of the rules, and he did do a lot of research on various subjects, so I would say that Gemp provides evidence towards a certain viewpoint, although it's not a conclusive proof.
Agree! MarcinS' site has some details to correct, but is very accurate in the vast majority of cases. That speaks, as you say, about deep research.
I don't believe this would be the case, since you haven't put anyone in the dead pile here and, as with Treebeard and Merry or Pippin, haven't paid the cost anymore. Even if the text of SFtF had been "kill," Elessar's Edict is an "instead of" action, replacing the original effect.
Treebeard Earthborn + Merry/Pippin can't be used as an example over Elessar's Edict + SFtF. Nor the opposite. Both are under the same rule EDIT: Those are different, see below.
That's the usual interpretation with Treebeard Earthborn and Merry/Pippin. But that interpretation commits the mistake of confusing doing something instead of an effect with preventing an effect. The Current Rulings Document (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/current_rulings_document) says those are different things:
"When a card uses the phrase “instead” or “instead of”, the stated effect is replaced with a different effect. This does not mean that the original effect is prevented."
If you do "something else instead" of a stated cost, the cost is still being paid but as a different action; thus the effect of such cost still occurs. I found this in the Comprehensive Rules 4.0 (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/comprehensive_rules_4-0):
"If a player is paying costs for a card and a response action occurs which modifies those costs, that player must continue to pay as many costs as he can, even if it is no longer possible to pay them all. If all the costs cannot be paid, that card has no effect." The modified cost of Pippin JaN / Merry UH can still be paid by Treebeard Earthborn, so no effect is negated.
Moreover, Steward's Tomb brings light about such difference. If "doing something instead" of an effect was like "preventing", The One Ring wouldn't be allowed to take wounds as burdens at such site (but we all know that's not the case). That's the "compelling argument" that Dictionary mentions above (though I got it from the Faramir BoQ article he posted ;)).
EDIT: Just noted something that turns the scales towards Phallen's point: the original version of Elessar's Edict says "instead", but... the corrected version says "to prevent that"! So Elessar's Edict is NOT like Treebeard Earthborn, and Saved From the Fire doesn't grab a single card if Elessar's Edict is used.
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Ted Sandyman's looks great! And thank you for the Ranged Weapons article additions. Little by little, we're approaching to the goal of having all concerning cards mentioned.
I wanted to thank you too for your recent work on the articles. I realise that you have been under some stress recently, and I don't wish to appear ungrateful.
EDIT: Just noted something that turns the scales towards Phallen's point: the original version of Elessar's Edict says "instead", but... the corrected version says "to prevent that"! So Elessar's Edict is NOT like Treebeard Earthborn, and Saved From the Fire doesn't grab a single card if Elessar's Edict is used.
That's curious, I thought that the reason they clarified Elessar's Edict was because it wasn't immediately obvious to players that they could opt to exhaust a wraith who is already exhausted. So they changed the wording to account for that. And yet, by changing "instead" to "prevent", they have changed the very nature of how the card works. Do you think this was even intentional?
On a related note, I thought the whole point of clarifications was to spell out parts of a card that should have been obvious (Like in the case of Sword of Dol Guldur), not change how the card fundamentally works. And yet, I believe Decipher did this before with cards like Desert Sneak, changing a required effect to an optional one. When they do that, why even call it a clarification and not an errata?
EDIT: Wrote article for Sam, Loyal Friend. Created page for the [[fellowship_keyword|Fellowship Keyword]]
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That's the usual interpretation with Treebeard Earthborn and Merry/Pippin. But that interpretation commits the mistake of confusing doing something instead of an effect with preventing an effect. The Current Rulings Document says those are different things:
"When a card uses the phrase "instead" or "instead of", the stated effect is replaced with a different effect. This does not mean that the original effect is prevented."
But, in the case of Earthborn, consider the full text:
"Unhasty. Response: If an unbound Hobbit is about to be discarded, stack him here instead."
If the text had read "If an unbound Hobbit is discarded, stack him here instead," you'd be spot on. But Treebeard doesn't replace the discard, it stops him from being discarded.
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I wanted to thank you too for your recent work on the articles. I realise that you have been under some stress recently, and I don't wish to appear ungrateful.
You hardly would appear to be ungrateful, only momentarily busy. Your overwhelming nice side would show up in any moment, as just happened.
@Phallen: Your argumentations are interesting. But I think the key is understanding how and when modifying the cost of a card cancels the effect of such card:
"If a player is paying costs for a card and a response action occurs which modifies those costs, that player must continue to pay as many costs as he can... If all the costs cannot be paid, that card has no effect."
Earthborn modifies the cost of Merry UH / Pippin JaN (turns "discard him" into "stack him here"), and then is able to pay it completely (no card negates the stacking). So the Unbound Hobbit's ability is still paid and still has effect. The effect is negated when the modified cost cannot be fully paid, which is not the case here.
Besides, The One Ring has the same wording than !Earthborn: "While the Ring-bearer is wearing The One Ring, each time he or she is about to take a wound, add a burden instead." (The Ring of Rings)
Such skill still works at Steward's Tomb, because doesn't prevent wounds.
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Besides, The One Ring has the same wording than !Earthborn: "While the Ring-bearer is wearing The One Ring, each time he or she is about to take a wound, add a burden instead." (The Ring of Rings)
Such skill still works at Steward's Tomb, because doesn't prevent wounds.
An excellent example, Steward's Tomb interacts with The One Ring as expected. Just as The One Ring doesn't prevent wounds but replaces the act of wounding with burdening, Earthborn doesn't prevent a discard. It replaces the act of discarding with stacking. All costs are no longer paid, because the cost to use those abilities of Merry and Pippin is to discard them.
While that alone should be enough to prevent the abilities regardless, I'm not certain Treebeard, Earthborn modifies the cost of the action. I'd have to think more on that.
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Did several minor updates, wrote article for Watcher in the Water, Many-Tentacled Creature, and created a page for the [[tentacle|Tentacle Keyword.]]
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Did several minor updates, wrote article for Watcher in the Water, Many-Tentacled Creature, and created a page for the [[tentacle|Tentacle Keyword.]]
Almost at 25 posts! In the mean time, on the Unloaded Keyword page:
All Character cards – that is to say, Companion, Ally, and Minion cards – always come with at least one built-in Unloaded keyword: their Race.
I would change this to "Almost all Character cards ... :their Race (see [Raceless])." Or even just "Almost all Character cards..."
See the pages for the keywords below for in-depth discussion as to an individual keyword's influence, or see loaded_keyword|Loaded Keywords for an explanation for all other bolded keywords.
The link "loaded_keyword|Loaded Keywords" actually goes to the Unloaded Keywords page.
Now that I'm starting to get involved in this thing, I've got to wonder: what's the point? We're all practically experts anyway :P
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Almost at 25 posts! In the mean time, on the Unloaded Keyword page:
Will be glad to have you aboard! Are you still planning to do an article explaining pipes?
I would change this to "Almost all Character cards ... :their Race (see [Raceless])." Or even just "Almost all Character cards..."
The link "loaded_keyword|Loaded Keywords" actually goes to the Unloaded Keywords page.
Fixed. Been noticing some minor errors like these on the older pages recently.
Now that I'm starting to get involved in this thing, I've got to wonder: what's the point? We're all practically experts anyway :P
Partly for the fun of it I imagine ;) But Gemp is still growing, and the more comprehensive the wiki is, the more people are inclined to use it. Ideally it means less confusion about the rules, although I don't know how often people actually use the wiki...
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As a 15-year novice of the game, I appreciate the wiki for explaining the metagame and card interactions. I understand the mechanics fairly well and can read the CRD for specific questions, but interactions with other cards across the game are not immediately apparent to me.
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As a 15-year novice of the game, I appreciate the wiki for explaining the metagame and card interactions. I understand the mechanics fairly well and can read the CRD for specific questions, but interactions with other cards across the game are not immediately apparent to me.
I think it's great that the wiki helps people - I have also learnt my fair share of details from it, often little titbits of information here and there, and I imagine that is part of the vision that Kralik may have had for its function. I feel it's a shame that most of the old crowd seem to have moved on at this stage, but even today new players still come to the game, and I hope that as many people as possible will be able to get something out of this resource.
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Article up for Isildur, Sword-Bearer.
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My first entry for the wiki is:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/pipe
be free to add some useful information
My second entry is:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/ambush
But can someone please repair the link from Ranged Weapon?
Ranged Weapon should be one link but it is seperated into Ranged and Weapon. Ranged links to Ranged Weapon and Weapon links to nothing
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But can someone please repair the link from Ranged Weapon?
Ranged Weapon should be one link but it is seperated into Ranged and Weapon. Ranged links to Ranged Weapon and Weapon links to nothing
Fixed. Also fixed a typo on the Pipes article.
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When you look at
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lotr01041
You can still see this Weapon link. Is it planned to create a Link for Weapon? If the answer is yes, Hand Weapon should changed in the same way as Ranged Weapon :P
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Is it planned to create a Link for Weapon?
No, I think that's an issue with the linker. I don't really know how to fix that atm, so it may just have to wait until Kralik's return, unless there's a simple solution that I've missed.
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I added a few explanations to the Defender article because the entry from the Rulebook is not self-evident. You have to read the Skirmish rules to fully understand how it works. I added those rules to the defender article and a few skirmish samples
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Fixed error, added another example to Defender.
Wrote articles for the !Treachery and !Deceit [Men] Men: Harry Goatleaf, Ruffian, Squint Eyed Southerner and Rough Man of the South.
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The Follower-Article got a major update
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/follower
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The Follower-Article got a major update
Added Royal Maiden, Red-Faced Landlord and Streets of Bree
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The Artifact-Article got a major update
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/artifact
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I started the Plains Article
Added all Plains Sites as a List
be free to add more useful information
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/plains
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Added a bit to Plains. I changed support/counter to simply interact with - I don't think specific cards really counter site keywords, the only thing to do is switch out the site (Traveled Leader etc.) or use something like Destroyed Homestead, but these are generic and not specific to any one keyword, so it's pointless putting them on every site keyword page.
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http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/easterling is online :-)
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Today I created the pages for the Spell and Weather Keywords.
But now I need your help. Weather. is an unloaded Keyword and I added it to the unloaded Keyword table but how can I get the wiki to auto-interlink the Weather Keyword on the cards gametext?
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The wiki should autolink keywords by itself I think. Kralik or TelTura would know how to set up that kind of thing, but sadly I do not, aside from doing it manually, which would be arduous.
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You cannot do it manually. It is hidden somewhere in the deepest database...
look here:
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lotr01123
Gametext: Spell is autolinked. Next Keyword is Weather. This Keyword is not linked and there is no way to edit it.
Kralik and all the others have overseen this unloaded Keyword because it is overseen by decipher itself. The keyword is not named in its unloaded keyword list.
I have written a PM to Kralik but do not know if he will read it or if he will react to it.
Are you able to send him an email?
How about TelTura? is he active?
What this Wiki needs is an active Admin...
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Yeah Kralik would be the best bet, he's at least on every few months. I don't think he's really got the zeal for this project anymore though.
TelTura kinda disappeared. He was around reading and giving input from time to time, then he just vanished. Hopefully it was just lack of interest and not because something terrible happened.
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Mount Doom, Sirannon Ruins, Get On and Get Away now have articles.
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I changed the unloaded keyword table and created an item class table.
Changed the layout from the most Articles related to item Class (Armor, box, etc) and created a List for Rings and Staff
Last on my list was Support Area Class.
But there is a little Problem. Introduced in Set 9 some Possessions and Artifacts prior are Classless with the sentence "Plays to your support Area"
Are such Cards treated as Cards with the Support Area Class?
And the next Problem that possibly only Kralik can solve: When you klick on an Armor like Armor of the White City you see the line:
Card Type: Possession • Armor
When you klick on Armor you will be linked to the card Armor not to this page
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/armor
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We can do what was done for the [[Fellowship]] keyword, with a disambiguation line on Armor's page. I tried putting that in, but if it looks bad we can just revert it.
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it is the best solution we have at the moment. Thank you
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I think the section for [[Ranged]] Weapons is extremely detailed, but perhaps out of place. "Cards that Interact with Archery Fire and Archers" really belongs in the [[Archery Phase]] page, it seems to me. I'd instead put something along the lines of "For other cards which add or subtract from the archery total, see here" in the Ranged Weapons section.
Likewise, having a whole section on cards which benefit possessions as a whole seems out of place, and should be moved to the [[Possession]]s article with another note (or perhaps just adding to the same note).
Orc Bowmen is perhaps related to Ranged Weapons, but by no means belongs in that article. However, cards which interact directly with archers like Relentless Charge might make sense to keep around as most ranged weapons make bearers archers. I didn't want to rearrange things on my own, so thoughts?
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I don't mind it being detailed, but I kinda see your point. I think that the Ranged Weapons page is based on the Hand Weapons one though, and that one is one of the older pages. I think Durin's Heir filled out most of the Ranged Weapons page, so'd I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.
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Is it worth putting Destructive Orc under "Cards that support Artifacts" because he uses [orc] artifacts, even though no [orc] artifacts were printed?
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Is it worth putting Destructive Orc under "Cards that support Artifacts" because he uses [orc] artifacts, even though no [orc] artifacts were printed?
I would say not, I think it would just be confusing.
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TelTura kinda disappeared. He was around reading and giving input from time to time, then he just vanished. Hopefully it was just lack of interest and not because something terrible happened.
Heh, sorry, my activity goes through ebbs and flows. I mean, I mostly didn't keep up because after checking in frequently and seeing no changes for months at a time...it starts to seem like it's not worthwhile. I don't know how my email notifications got interrupted, however; it looks like a huge amount of work has been put in!
Enabran (or at least I assume it was Enabran) contacted me via email letting me know about the issues here. I've reached out to Kralik, but it might be about a month before he responds, based on his informal not-resignation. We'll see what he says once he does.
If anyone needs to contact me and it looks like I haven't responded to PM, feel free to email me at hyperlink <dot> teltura <at> gmail <dot> com.
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Heh, sorry, my activity goes through ebbs and flows. I mean, I mostly didn't keep up because after checking in frequently and seeing no changes for months at a time...it starts to seem like it's not worthwhile. I don't know how my email notifications got interrupted, however; it looks like a huge amount of work has been put in!
Sorry about that, I kind of lost a lot of my flow over time. Durin's Heir, Ket_The_Jet and Enabran have all done a lot of work. We actually had the end of the set 1 cards in site (Mostly boring ones left :P), and Enabran's written up a tonne of keywords that didn't have articles. Phallen's been doing some recent work too, mostly on Two Towers cards I think.
Enabran (or at least I assume it was Enabran) contacted me via email letting me know about the issues here. I've reached out to Kralik, but it might be about a month before he responds, based on his informal not-resignation. We'll see what he says once he does.
Yeah, not seen much of Kralik either. Not exactly sure what the implications are, but have you seen this thread?: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,10122.msg93108.html#new
If anyone needs to contact me and it looks like I haven't responded to PM, feel free to email me at hyperlink <dot> teltura <at> gmail <dot> com.
I posted errors I can't fix here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,117.180.html
I kinda feel like I'm bombarding you with unimportant stuff. Really am glad to see you back, feels like Return of the King ;)
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Yeah, I saw that post of his. In the past he's said that he checks his lotr-tcg email every month or so, but with that who knows when he'll see the most recent round of emails.
It would definitely be nice if the wiki software was something fully accessible to more than admin-level access. I actually have moderately elevated privileges, but not enough to resolve some of the recurring issues such as not being allowed to upload new files or the card text pages being locked somewhere that I can't see them. In the past I've toyed with the idea of scraping all the data on this wiki and moving it to a MediaWiki-based option, but that would need to happen when I have time to do it and only if there's moderate support from the userbase--as you've found out, I'm not always around.
I looked at those issues, and they're all tied to the locked-down card pages I mentioned, so I can't help there.
(in other news, I'm annoyed to see that I still didn't get an email notification for your reply, so apologies if my replies lag.)
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In other news, I'm annoyed to see that I still didn't get an email notification for your reply, so apologies if my replies lag.
So I'm just hypothesising here, but is it possible this could be an issue with the site? Because I haven't received any email notifications for quite some time either, but I have them switched on. I just never really noticed before because I log in so often anyway.
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It's a good theory. Not sure what would cause it, but then again I never actually got to peek into the shoestrings that hold this place together.
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I updated most of the unloaded Keywords pages using this Decklist-Builder-Program . Now no card should be missing in my lists.
The Ranger Keyword is the last one that is missing. But nearly 100 cards are Ranger or ranger related cards, so that is a lot of work...
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Added notes to all cards that I've seen mismatch their physical copies (Worn Battleaxe, Grieving the Fallen, Doors of Durin, Rider's Bow). Also added a note to Powerful Guide (H) based on research I could find - if information there is incorrect please let me know.
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There are 169 instances of the word "ranger" in all cards, so there's an upper bound. Somewhere I have a python script that I would use to generate the "ranger cards" and "cards that refer to rangers" sections in the wiki; I can try to dig that up and get it working again. Could use it to check the unloaded articles, too, and ensure they list all the proper cards.
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Wrote article for Throne of the Dark Lord.
There are 169 instances of the word "ranger" in all cards, so there's an upper bound. Somewhere I have a python script that I would use to generate the "ranger cards" and "cards that refer to rangers" sections in the wiki; I can try to dig that up and get it working again. Could use it to check the unloaded articles, too, and ensure they list all the proper cards.
That sounds great! I've often wondered whether or not pages like those are complete.
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Working on Saruman, Servant of Sauron. Please let me know if you see any erroneous information.
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So, I'm not sure how many other people know this, but I dug up an old Rise of Saruman rulebook (i.e. The set containing Servant of Sauron) and found that this rulebook does describe followers in a neutral manner, instead of as a Free Peoples only concept, like in Hunters and Bloodlines.
I'm not sure why the wiki's descriptions of follower and aid are from the hunters rulebook if it's out of date, as this is mainly what confused me in the first place. In any case, I updated the article accordingly. Assuming I'm not jumping to conclusions, I might also propose we update the wiki's follower and aid articles too.
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Shout-out to Dictionary for his consistent dedication to the wiki! He just finished the series of fortifications released in King Block and the articles are looking fine.
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So, I'm not sure how many other people know this, but I dug up an old Rise of Saruman rulebook (i.e. The set containing Servant of Sauron) and found that this rulebook does describe followers in a neutral manner, instead of as a Free Peoples only concept, like in Hunters and Bloodlines.
I'm not sure why the wiki's descriptions of follower and aid are from the hunters rulebook if it's out of date, as this is mainly what confused me in the first place. In any case, I updated the article accordingly. Assuming I'm not jumping to conclusions, I might also propose we update the wiki's follower and aid articles too.
The article is a bit misleading. He can exert any companion. The wording suggests he can do so only to assigned companions. Maybe change that. Also, Whispers in the Dark isn‘t linked.
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Shout-out to Dictionary for his consistent dedication to the wiki! He just finished the series of fortifications released in King Block and the articles are looking fine.
Thanks Phallen :) Trying to get back into it after a long break. My style might be a bit different: Trying to be focus more on what a card is used for and less on whether a card is useful, which I got a bit hung up on in the past. Also trying to be more succinct.
The article is a bit misleading. He can exert any companion. The wording suggests he can do so only to assigned companions. Maybe change that. Also, Whispers in the Dark isn‘t linked.
Fixed!
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I've been trying to focus on finding the best light to paint most cards in, but sometimes I've gotten overzealous in mapping out the probably-obvious. I need to trend more towards succinctness. Blades Drawn, in particular, has needed trimming since I wrote it :P
Another note is I'm always surprised at how differently I value most of the cards. I couldn't find a single reason to put Haunting Her Steps in any deck, but you came by and brought up Lurkers, which is a fine reason to say that the card can be usable. Hobbit Appetite, as well, I've thrown into many decks to wound-proof them whenever Frodo has Answer to All Riddles, and I was surprised at how useless the card was made out to be initially. Of course, my practical knowledge only extends to Return of the King (maaaybe Movie), so perhaps it's the vantage point of the later sets that I'm missing. I guess this is why it's a collaborative effort!
For Servant of Sauron, doesn't his effect trigger before wounds are placed so he could exert a companion about to take a wound from the skirmish he is involved in?
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I've been trying to focus on finding the best light to paint most cards in, but sometimes I've gotten overzealous in mapping out the probably-obvious. I need to trend more towards succinctness. Blades Drawn, in particular, has needed trimming since I wrote it :P
Another note is I'm always surprised at how differently I value most of the cards. I couldn't find a single reason to put Haunting Her Steps in any deck, but you came by and brought up Lurkers, which is a fine reason to say that the card can be usable. Hobbit Appetite, as well, I've thrown into many decks to wound-proof them whenever Frodo has Answer to All Riddles, and I was surprised at how useless the card was made out to be initially. Of course, my practical knowledge only extends to Return of the King (maaaybe Movie), so perhaps it's the vantage point of the later sets that I'm missing. I guess this is why it's a collaborative effort!
For Servant of Sauron, doesn't his effect trigger before wounds are placed so he could exert a companion about to take a wound from the skirmish he is involved in?
Yeah, I agree with you. It would seem that Haunting her Steps would work best in War of the Ring Standard, a format which I have never played. I like Hobbit Appetite as well, although I can see that it would probably lose to ally shenanigans (The Gaffer + Hobbit Party Guest etc.) in the long run. It's more splashable though.
Saruman is optional, so I think he goes second.
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Articles done for: Goblin Swarms, Guard Commander, Frodo's Bedroom, Rivendell Valley, Rivendell Waterfall and Midgewater Moors.
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Regarding Goblin Swarms: it can encourage a double move? Imo the exact opposite is the case. When I play a big minion that gets stacked, what exactly encourages me to double to face it again? In conjunction with Armory and Relics, this is all but „Yay, Daddy! Can I do it again? Please!“
Also, weak vs. condition removal of any kind, including Vilya. Strong vs Wingfoot, as there are less/no targets to wound (further discouraging a double).
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Usually, having to replay a minion is worse than having it on the table for free. Except Goblin Runner and Goblin Scavengers (obvious exceptions), I'd agree with Dictionary.
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Hand extention (aka card advantage) is THE best thing in a card game. I don‘t understand how that can be interpreted negatively.
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•When you double and minions are on the table, you will have to face them again the next site
•When you single move and minions get stacked on Goblin Swarms, you may have to face them again the next site
•When you double move and minions get stacked on Goblin Swarms, you may have to face them again the next site
There's no difference between facing a stacked minion this turn or next, but a fairly large difference (especially when that minion costs 4+ twilight) between your opponent having a minion out for free or paying its cost again. Unless the Shadow player gains more from playing the minion than from having it in play (When you play... effects, refreshed vitality against archery, etc.), you can get manage a double easier when the Shadow player clears the table on your behalf. It isn't as ideal as simply discarding all minions, of course, but that's the point of Goblin Swarms. At least, that's been my experience in moving - I've been wrong before!
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I expanded that paragraph somewhat. I do think replaying can be an issue, but not so much for the classic swarm setup with armories etc. due to all the replay bonuses as mentioned. I don't really mind it (As the opponent) when bigger dudes stack, but stacked Runners are terrifying.
I'm reluctant to put condition discard as a weakness. I used to do it a lot, but it felt redundant as it applies to every condition. Vilya is a good point though, as it kills the stacked cards between bounces. Added it and the anti-regroup point.
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In this specific example, stacking has way more pros than cons. Besides, stacking something big like Host of Moria LotU has extreme replay value. Otherwise, let‘s be honest, other bigger Moria minions are seldomly stacked or even played, besides Archer Commander, Guard Commander and Moria Archer Troop.
As the articles are directed towards (somewhat competetive) constructed play, this should be the focus on the cards.
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Okay, I've rewritten that paragraph with a different tone and more detail based on this discussion. I think it looks better now, let me know what you think.
As the articles are directed towards (somewhat competetive) constructed play, this should be the focus on the cards.
That's true, although lesser cards might need to be given the benefit of a doubt in my opinion. This is a very popular card though, so I agree that we should do it justice.
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Ravage the Defeated, Dwarrowdelf Chamber, Uruk Camp, Galadriel's Glade, Westfarthing and Curse From Mordor. I also found a couple of Fellowship cards that I forgot to cross-off previously. We're not too far from the end of set 1 folks!
EDIT: Uruk-hai Berserker, Journey Into Danger, Bitter Hatred, White Mountains.
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Breeding Pit, Shire Lookout Point, Goblin Scavengers, Morgul Hunter and Drawn to Its Power*
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Okay, I've rewritten that paragraph with a different tone and more detail based on this discussion. I think it looks better now, let me know what you think.
As the articles are directed towards (somewhat competetive) constructed play, this should be the focus on the cards.
That's true, although lesser cards might need to be given the benefit of a doubt in my opinion. This is a very popular card though, so I agree that we should do it justice.
:up:
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Merry, Friend to Sam; Bree Gate; Tower Lieutenant; Green Dragon Inn*; Dimrill Dale and Return to Its Master.
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Breeding Pit...
You linked my deck! Thanks!
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You linked my deck! Thanks!
No problem :) You've got some beautiful analysis of the card there, much better than what I could describe for the card generally.
Curunir, Wariness, Uruk Shaman
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Spies of Saruman, Uruk Brood, Hobbit Farmer, Rivendell Waterfall and The Ring's Oppression.
My analysis of The Ring's Oppression is extremely critical. I cannot think of anything good to say about this card, and its inclusion in a deck feels more like it would be a detriment to the player than bring any real value to the table. I would nominate it for The Worst Rare, were it not for the fact that it's a Common. Let me know if I'm wrong :-|
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Uruk Shaman + Uruk Spear can clear the board from mounts easily with enough twilight. That's vulnerable to maneuver wounding, but if the FP player doesn't have a way to wound him twice immediately ([Gondor] Defend it and Hope, [Gandalf] Fury of the White Rider / Terrible and Evil, or [Dwarven] Baruk Khazad + another single wound event), then he/she will have to lose 1 mount and wound the Shaman before he can heal. Also, the Uruk Spear might be borne by another Uruk with more vitality (although that means reducing twilight).
Besides that, he can reduce twilight just added at maneuver for spotting requirements (The White Wizard, Deep in Thought, Fury of the White Rider), working marvels against Shoulder to Shoulder (although the splashable Not Easily Destroyed is often better). Or reload Orthanc Berserker's exhausting trick (assuming that after paying [8] for both, you still have [4]*X free and also can spot 5 burdens).
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Uruk Shaman + Uruk Spear can clear the board from mounts easily with enough twilight. That's vulnerable to maneuver wounding, but if the FP player doesn't have a way to wound him twice immediately ([Gondor] Defend it and Hope, [Gandalf] Fury of the White Rider / Terrible and Evil, or [Dwarven] Baruk Khazad + another single wound event), then he/she will have to lose 1 mount and wound the Shaman before he can heal. Also, the Uruk Spear might be borne by another Uruk with more vitality (although that means reducing twilight).
Besides that, he can reduce twilight just added at maneuver for spotting requirements (The White Wizard, Deep in Thought, Fury of the White Rider), working marvels against Shoulder to Shoulder (although the splashable Not Easily Destroyed is often better). Or reload Orthanc Berserker's exhausting trick (assuming that after paying [8] for both, you still have [4]*X free and also can spot 5 burdens).
Added. Good to hear from you again Durin's Heir :)
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Thanks! It's nice too to see your hard work on the LOTR Wiki.
I got some things to add about Hobbit Farmer. First, besides Aragorn (the Prancing Pony) and Bilbo (Hobbiton Party Field) he can play from deck Merry and Pippin (Farmer Maggot's Fields) or Sam (Green Dragon Inn). Also, in Pre-Shadows multipath, it's more stable than Knocked on the Head to replay the self-discardable versions.
Second, the Prancing Pony is NOT useless after playing Aragorn (or without him at all)! It's the only card usable by the FP to add burdens, and as such it's the only way to feed The Shire Countryside without risking the RB in skirmish (or taking archery with him, but that's only against some Shadows). It's also during the Fellowship phase, when burdens are easier (and wounds more important) to remove.
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Added. I love the Lieutenant of Orthanc + Uruk Shaman idea. I use to use Lieutenant ages ago, before I found Gemp, but he seems weaker than Lurtz.
Pass of Caradhras; Ulaire Attea, KoDG; Ulaire Toldea, MoM; All Thought Bent on It; Pippin, FtF
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Sauron's Defenses, In the Ringwraith's Wake, Relentless, Through the Misty Mountains and Traitor's Voice.
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Orc Butchery, Orc Assassin, Orc Scimitar, Orc Chieftain, Stone Trolls.
Does Orc Butchery include the character who just died? I did the maths assuming yes, but now I think I may be wrong?
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Placing a companion in the dead pile is essentially a required trigger (same as assigning threat wounds), so it'll happen before any response actions. Your math did assume that a copy is played for each of 4 distinct deaths though, which may not always be the case (e.g., play two copies from hand when a companion dies). Great article, though. I'm interested in building a deck around that card now, never really noticed it before!
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Placing a companion in the dead pile is essentially a required trigger (same as assigning threat wounds), so it'll happen before any response actions. Your math did assume that a copy is played for each of 4 distinct deaths though, which may not always be the case (e.g., play two copies from hand when a companion dies). Great article, though. I'm interested in building a deck around that card now, never really noticed it before!
Thanks! I've fleshed it out a bit more now. I've never tried Orc Butchery on Gemp, but played with a physical copy ages ago, I had forgotten you could play multiples at once!
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Morgul Skirmisher, You Bring Great Evil, Ettenmoors*, The Twilight World, Retired Adventurer.
EDIT: The Master's Will, Mithril Mine, Balin's Tomb
EDIT: Band of the Eye, Morgul Blade, Threshold of Shadow, Paths Seldom Trodden.
EDIT: Dark Whispers, Seeking it Always, Lord of Angmar, The Irresistible Shadow
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A Talent for Not Being Seen, Seeking Its Master, Alive and Unspoiled, The Underdeeps of Moria
I thought I'd have more to say on Underdeeps, maybe I'm forgetting something. Only 8 cards left.
EDIT: Desperate Defense of the Ring, The Gaffer's Pipe, Bag End, Farmer Maggot's Fields.
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Bilbo's Pipe, Bounder, Relics of Moria, There and Back Again.
That's it folks.
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=D>
Well done! I wish we still had :gp: so that I could give you a bunch
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How fitting for There and Back Again to be the last card. Excellent work!
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- Updated Rulebooks (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/rulebooks) page to include a reference to the Tournament Guidelines
- Created the missing pages for Bidding (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/bidding)and Mulligan (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/mulligan)
- Added the navigation tables for all phase pages (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/phase) and game setup pages (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/game_setup_table)
- Fixed the Comprehensive Rules (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/comprehensive_rules_4-0) not showing an auto link to the Assignment Phase for some reason?
There is also someone on the recently-popular Facebook group who is in the process of sending me physical rulebooks for Return of the !King, Rise of Saruman, Bloodlines, and !Fellowship, which I will scan in, compile to PDFs, and update the links on the rulebooks page once that's complete.
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Updated the Wiki Index (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/index) to have tables that are more related to each other to be more tightly bound.
In particular I consolidated Actions into an easier-to-parse table. This still needs to have all the various Verbs that a new player might come across entered here (and the actual article filled in if it's red-linked).
I also included a location for more catch-all concepts under Mechanics, which at the moment just contains Initiative and Threats, concepts which were shoehorned in elsewhere but didn't really fit.
TODO: (and anyone reading this feel free to contribute the following)
- Go through all links on the main index and ensure that each existing article includes the table it's contained in at the bottom of the article. For instance, Knight (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/knight) contains at the bottom a reference to the Unloaded Keywords table, which permits someone to easily navigate between keywords if they're browsing.
- Read through a bunch of cards and try to find more Action verbs that cards reference that are not included in the Actions table.
- Read through a bunch of cards (and the Comprehensive Guide) and try to find more Mechanics that cards reference that are not included in the Mechanics table.
- Go through all articles linked on the main index (existing or not) and ensure there is an actual article explaining the concepts, history, pitfalls, and other relevant information about the concept more than just a quote from the Comprehensive Guide (see Wound (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wound) for an example).
- Overhaul the Formats sections to include all the formats that exist (such as the ones that Gemp supports).
- Write articles for the individual sets (all red links near the bottom).
- Go through all articles linked on the main index and add a list of cards that are relevant to the concept. See again Wound (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wound) for a good example: all the cards that cause wounds, and all the cards that prevent wounds, sorted by Culture and then Set. Don't worry about this if you're volunteering; I have a script that can be used to search the entire database of cards for keywords that spits out these lists.
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Instead of "read through a bunch of cards," I recommend searching card text using either Zorbec's or the database source. Great work so far!
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Thanks!
The tricky part is "you don't know what you don't know". I can't search for terms I don't know exist (or rather, don't remember they exist). This came up most recently on the Facebook group when someone asked about canceling the ring-bearer's skirmish. My first thought was "oh, I'm sure there's a page on Canceling I can link to", only to find that no one had thought to make one. It would be the work of twenty minutes for me to find all cards with the word "cancel" in them. It's a harder undertaking to remember the word "cancel" is used at all.
One potential answer is to do some word-frequency analysis to try and pin down what concepts come up the most and check to see that a article was created, but it seems to me that it's going to be faster and less noisy to just browse through the ~3000 cards, checking the index every time I think I see a new word that hasn't been accounted for. Or do the same thing for each entry in the comprehensive guide. Or both.
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Oh, to be clear I'm not talking about tallying all the cards with a particular concept (that I would use scripts for), I'm talking purely checking to make sure all concepts and mechanics have an article accounting for them. Once all possible articles are in, *then* use scripts to find all cards that reference those concepts.
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Speaking of scripts, I've revamped my list-making script, the one that I used to generate the lists of "all cards containing X", such as the one at the Wound article (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/wound). Previously I was just sort of haphazardly editing the script for each new article, then overwriting those changes for each new one (since, I supposed, once the list was made there was no need to go back and re-generate it). I !discovered a reason: the list format was butt-ugly and didn't actually convey enough needed information.
So! Now it generates an actual table, which takes up far more space but it easier to follow and can much more easily be the one-stop shop these articles should be. Please take a look at the Wound article linked above and let me know if there's some element of the table(s) that could be improved.
This time I've written the code in such a way that those two tables are preserved in my output forever, so if I alter, say, the columns being generated it's the work of a few minutes to copy-paste the new version into the article.
One advantage of having the game text right there is that I can see more clearly when my regex failed-- Plains of Rohan Camp, listed under "Cards that Prevent Wounds", doesn't do that at all! It's easy to see how its wording defeated my regex, and so I'll be improving it and re-pasting the table in at a later date. (The whole point of this revamp was for me to display the items in the Signet page better, and Wound was a convenient stress test of the rewrite.)
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Revamped the Signets article (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/signet) with a similar table overhaul.
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Updated all the culture icons used, using down-scaled vector versions of the cultures to get better clarity than the ancient muddy forum versions used.
And then since I had foolishly made them 32 pixels tall I realized I broke every single in-line usage of the icons, so I did the process again to get them down to 16. They're just a moderate improvement, but it's noticeable, I think. Best example is the Coat of Mail article with how many culture icons it uses.
I am going to re-upload the larger versions tho for use in sections and tables for clarity's sake.
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Created Alignment (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/alignment), which was put together to explain what Decipher means by "kind" or "side", both of which are ambiguous terms (this is referring to the difference between Free Peoples and Shadow).
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Necroing this ol' faithful thread, since there's a reason for it to exist again!
Recent articles that have been added by me:
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Two-Player_QuickStart_Set
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/2002_Toy_Fair_Calendar
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Film_Cell_Cards
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Customizable_League_Cards
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Hunters_Design-a-Card_Contest
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/PC_Errata
In addition, this article has been completely revamped to no longer be an ongoing embarrassment:
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Rulebooks
And all of the set indices have been overhauled and attached to the main page of their particular set, with three varieties available:
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring/Index
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring/Thumbs
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring/Compact
And, because this is a wiki that has actual working Features We Can Use, here is the Recent Changes page with a filter applied to show a summary of what everyone has been working on!
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?userExpLevel=unregistered%3Bregistered%3Bnewcomer%3Blearner&hidebots=1&hidepreviousrevisions=1&hidenewpages=1&hidelog=1&namespace=0&limit=500&days=90&urlversion=2
I would particularly like to call attention to Phallen Cassidy's excellent in-depth card articles, such as this one: https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Hill_Clan_(6R6) . I won't steal his thunder further tho if he wants to post his own pages himself.
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Revamped the Signets article (http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/signet) with a similar table overhaul.
And hey, while history doesn't repeat itself, it certainly rhymes:
https://wiki.lotrtcgpc.net/wiki/Signets
This page hopefully shows off all the power of having the cards in a queryable database; those tables are dynamically created and can automatically update as new entries are added, or just be written to find "every card with X property" without needing to do it by hand.