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Author Topic: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004  (Read 43754 times)

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March 19, 2011, 03:09:44 PM
Reply #15

jcb213

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2011, 03:09:44 PM »
Something else to note about the man/elf build that ran rampant at worlds that year is that it had been refined and tweaked through multiple sets.  It was good when RotK came out, but relied on Arwen with Gwemegil & Asfaloth.  Most of the cards are from sets 1-7.  In Siege it gained the new Sting which could help with a double move.  In Reflections it got huge boosts from Glorfindel (who replaced Arwen and freed up the cards slots from Gwemegil/Asfaloth for other stuff, which was also good since possession weren't as reliable anymore because of Corsairs and Grond) and Aiglos (which enabled Greenleaf to have 5 vitality and was great in the regroup to kill a minion so you can double).  In Mt Doom it got another good card in Tale of the Great Ring and a way to pull the fortifications in Base of Mindolluin.

But, the core of the deck was already intact when RotK came out and people refined it into the list you see here.  Various high caliber players were all responsible for tweaking it (for example, world champion Mike Dalton played it a bunch around reflections and he popularized the use of Citadel of the Stars and Stone Tower in the deck). That's why almost all of the lists are identical with only 1 or 2 cards different - it was so fine-tuned at that point that people didn't mess with it much because it was just solid.

March 19, 2011, 04:35:33 PM
Reply #16

Imrahil

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2011, 04:35:33 PM »
Well if I had 4 RotN I would try it because it does look interesting.  I'm still surprised because (based upon what I remember), the meta at the time was mostly possession dwarves with BRC.  But I guess all the possession hate is a response to the surge in popularity enjoyed by the dwarves prior to the tournament.

But the mortality rate must have been very high considering that every time a Castamir hit the table two people would die (nobody has the strength to mess with him once he's exhausted, so Lego and forts are the only option).  Broad-bladed swords were also very popular, and polearms, so I'd have to play against it to fully appreciate the potential.
Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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March 19, 2011, 05:39:21 PM
Reply #17

jcb213

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2011, 05:39:21 PM »
Your options for Castamir are:

  • Legolas shoots him 4 times
  • Legolas shoots him 3 times then use Citadel
  • Legolas shoots him twice then use Stone Tower
  • Aragorn with Anduril and Last Alliance fights him twice, taking a wound each time, then Dervorin discards him or you move again and shoot him with Legolas
  • Faramir with Last Alliance fights him twice (since he can't exert for Raider Halberd he won't overwhelm Faramir), then Dervorin discards him or you move again and shoot him with Legolas
  • Frodo fights him and Boromir pumps Frodo, then Boromir dies in the fierce
  • A gondor companion uses Noble Leaders to not be overwhelmed and then someone dies in the fierce
  • Two companions die (if you don't have any other options, which is mostly likely at site 2 which is why you should be careful not to put too much in the pool if you can't deal with Castamir at site 2)

Realistically, even if Castamir kills 2 guys once he is exhausted you can easily move again and then shoot him with Legolas since he will have no way to heal.

It's definitely not easy and you will get stopped by Castamir sometimes, but you do have a variety of ways of dealing with him.  Multiple Great Hill Trolls at sites 5-9 is actually much worse since they discard whatever conditions are key and then you have a hard time dealing with multiple big fierce guys.

Don't get me wrong, the man/elf deck isn't unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination, it's just really solid against a variety of things.

Dwarves just weren't popular after Aggression got banned (which was between Reflections and Mt Doom) because Honed wasn't nearly as good and you couldn't BRC away the entire support area since you weren't more than damage +3.  They got really good again once Black Rider came out and you got Thrarin companion and No Pauses No Spills to draw cards.  I actually think Dwarves are still really good in movie block, but they aren't quite on the same level as Elves with Galadriel LR, Man/Elf, or Knights.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 05:44:02 PM by jcb213 »

March 19, 2011, 08:48:26 PM
Reply #18

Imrahil

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2011, 08:48:26 PM »
I never would have thought of the Faramir tactic, thanks for the comprehensive list.  i think I am going to try this deck.

I also think that if you're trying to set up a Shadow kill then dwarves are the way to go, and that's where their true strength lies.  They may not always get you to site 9, but they are very effective at getting you a sweet shadow hand.  Especially with Dunharrow Plateau to play Preparations or Here is Good Rock off the start.

Also, a decent Corsair build is going to run Red Wrath and Wind that Sped Ships to counter comps like Aragorn and Cirdan. so you'd think it would be pretty easy to snipe him early, or build a killer shadow hand with Ships of Great Draught on the double.
Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

-Dave Barry

March 20, 2011, 12:55:43 PM
Reply #19

Imrahil

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2011, 12:55:43 PM »
Except that Ranger's Bow (like Sting) is a possession, and therefore fuels the token orgy.

I don't even want to think about Dwarves with Aggression. :-)
Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

-Dave Barry

March 22, 2011, 05:15:03 PM
Reply #20

Ringbearer

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2011, 05:15:03 PM »
I became 17th at the PS right after reflection.... it was nasty... It went so far that a judge responsible for deckchecks jokingly said afetr the tourney he'd kill the first beard he'd encounter.

March 22, 2011, 06:18:01 PM
Reply #21

jcb213

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2011, 06:18:01 PM »
Yeah, Aggression was totally broken.  I remember thinking it didn't seem too bad when I first read it until playing in the Origins PSE right after Reflections came out.  Aggression to draw 4 cards.  Play a bunch of free dwarf stuff.  Play Defending the Keep to replay Aggression from discard.  I'm also now pretty much guaranteed to have 8 shadow cards (usually MORCS) in my hand for my next shadow phase.  I'll rinse and repeat next turn.

Oh, and I've got 2 or 3 Aggression in play so Gimli + Ring of Fury can BRC away your entire support area.  And it made Honed a ridiculous pump to boot.

Ugh, that was a disaster.  But, it did get x-ed almost immediately after that PSE.  Aside from Mordor Fiend getting x-ed before it came out, I think Aggression was the fastest card ever to be x-ed.

December 14, 2011, 08:53:54 AM
Reply #22

Panch

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Re: Top 16 decks from Worlds 2004
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 08:53:54 AM »
Dan Clark, what a guy!!!
"The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword."- Eddard Stark