Player's Council Errata Release

[TelTura]

The Player's Council would like to announce that starting in April 2021, we will begin rolling out errata batches for cards on a monthly basis to the Gemp platform.

Moving forward, all PC Monthly Leagues will use new PC formats that utilize this errata, including next month's in March.  Over the next two weeks, we will be releasing a series of posts that go over the first 5 cards we will be errata'ing in detail.
We are excited to finally be taking this step, and eager to hear any feedback you may have regarding this process.

Full announcement here: https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/02/19/return-of-the-kings-edict/

Any comments or questions can be posted here or on the PC Discord: https://lotrtcgpc.net/discord

[TelTura]

Here is the first of 5 posts going into the first errata batch of cards in detail:

https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/02/21/errata-spoiler-flaming-brand/

As announced earlier this week, the Player's Council will be releasing the first errata batch of cards onto Gemp in April, with the cards available during the weekend of the March PC League.  Here we go over Flaming Brand, its problems, and what version of the card the PC plans on releasing.

If you have any thoughts, comments, or critiques on this, please feel free to post them here or on the PC Discord: https://lotrtcgpc.net/discord

[Phallen Cassidy]

The "ranger" requirement grows on me more and more both mechanically and thematically. After all, if Aragorn wasn't a ranger they probably wouldn'tve been camped out in the wilderness the way they were. Neatly keeps it out of the hands of some later power players too, and prevents the Free Peoples from designating some random Knight as the Nazgul stomper with a situational strength +6, damage +2 boost lying in wait. It would have been absolutely perfect for my Towers Dwarf deck using Defender of Free Peoples since Dwarves are naturally weak against Nazgul, but maybe it would be worth creating a variant deck with a ranger either replacing Aragorn or a Dwarf and seeing how it goes. These are the sorts of deck building decisions the people deserve.

I'm a little worried at how the Ring-bound rangers of Towers will benefit though, since Sword of Gondor and Faramir's Cloak is already essentially 11 strength for Ranger of Ithilien and 12 for Faramir, Captain of Gondor. Yet if you're taking this card off the X-list in just about any fashion that's unavoidable I guess -- permanent strength bonuses have perhaps the greatest impact on how the game works. Bill Ferny will do a lot of work for Nazgul in this specific match-up (you don't have to assign him, after all!), but many great 12-strength Uruk-hai will lose by default to Wingfoot (well, any ranger Aragorn) with this and Blade of Aragorn or a stacked Faramir, Captain of Gondor. It is true that Wingfoot has to pick between it and Aragorn's Bow, which would really hamper the ability to keep Dunlendings down... I dunno. Again it would be hard to avoid, just keep in mind that Nazgul are far from the only ones affected. Decipher must have had this in mind when they created set 4 anyway, right? ...Right?

[TelTura]

Thanks for the feedback!  I am also rather happy with where Flaming Brand ended up, and I hope we can keep future errata similarly thematic + interesting to play. 

[Legion]

I'm surprised you're starting with Flaming Brand. Personally, I think the errata perfectly happily makes it not overpowered: Ring Bound Rangers could use a little strength boost: it still won't make them too strong (or even viable), and outside of TS, it is either R-listed (expanded), or just not great (movie Nazgul can deal with possessions easily enough, and plus one strength isn't much for anyone else).

My main criticism of the arguements on here relate to fellowship block. In set 1, Nazgul ruled supreme. They were just too good, and so in set 2, Decipher hastily made some counter cards, including Filibert Bolger and Flaming Brand. Even with these, Nazgul still remained pretty dominant, and the main reason why Dwarves are generally considered uncompetitive. Hobbits also struggle since they have no way to remove Black Breath or Blade Tip. The most used strategy is Last Alliance: probably the most adept at handling Nazgul with incredibly strong companions. The change to Flaming Brand does not impact this fellowship nearly as much as others that do not run Last Alliance (such as Pipeweed: another deck that has Nazgul as it's worst matchup). In fact, it could even gain given that Arwen now gets access to the Brand. She's now an absolute powerhouse with Asfaloth, Gwemegil and the Brand. So I just worry that this change will tilt the metagame even more towards its most played deck type, something I feel no fan based errata should do. Personally, I'd be happier to see it on a knight in movie than Arwen in Fellowship. The main thing is to remove it from Eomer.

[TelTura]

Here is the detailed errata post 2 of 5 for the April errata batch:

https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/02/21/errata-spoiler-elrond-lord-of-rivendell/

As announced earlier this week, the Player's Council will be releasing the first errata batch of cards onto Gemp in April, with the cards available during the weekend of the March PC League.  Here we go over Elrond, Lord of Rivendell, and what changes the new PC formats will apply.

If you have any thoughts, comments, or critiques on this, please feel free to post them here or on the PC Discord:  https://lotrtcgpc.net/discord

[Phallen Cassidy]

My main criticism of the arguements on here relate to fellowship block. In set 1, Nazgul ruled supreme. They were just too good, and so in set 2, Decipher hastily made some counter cards, including Filibert Bolger and Flaming Brand. Even with these, Nazgul still remained pretty dominant, and the main reason why Dwarves are generally considered uncompetitive. Hobbits also struggle since they have no way to remove Black Breath or Blade Tip. The most used strategy is Last Alliance: probably the most adept at handling Nazgul with incredibly strong companions. The change to Flaming Brand does not impact this fellowship nearly as much as others that do not run Last Alliance (such as Pipeweed: another deck that has Nazgul as it's worst matchup). In fact, it could even gain given that Arwen now gets access to the Brand. She's now an absolute powerhouse with Asfaloth, Gwemegil and the Brand. So I just worry that this change will tilt the metagame even more towards its most played deck type, something I feel no fan based errata should do. Personally, I'd be happier to see it on a knight in movie than Arwen in Fellowship. The main thing is to remove it from Eomer.

You make some good points. I don't think they're as good as Uruk-hai though, and this card has a lot to do with that. The solution to Nazgul Supremacy should never have been a splashed Aragorn at 14 strength or Boromir at 13. I haven't seen Pipeweed have a particularly hard time against Nazgul anyway. My all-Hobbit deck generally doesn't struggle much against them either if I can survive site 3, thanks to OEG and the fact that it's hard to get 2 Nazgul out again before site 7 or 8. If Dwarves or Hobbits are negatively impacted by more plentiful Nazgul overall I don't think it's totally fair to blame it on externalities from Flaming Brand. Last Alliance decks might still be best equipped to handle Nazgul, but they at least have to try now. And I definitely don't see this as a buff to them. I think Arwen gaining 1 strength against Nazgul is way overrated and 1 strength against Uruk-hai is underrated (but less so since they already have ways of dealing with possessions).

I also think Eomer wielding brand is overrated though, so maybe I'm crazy. I mean, did Wormtongue mean nothing to people? In my mind Firefoot + Eomer's Spear is better than any other combination of possessions for Third Marshal of Riddermark. It's the randos becoming Nazgul-stompers that I'd be more concerned about.

[TelTura]

Errata post 3 of 5 for the April errata batch:

https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/02/26/errata-spoiler-sam-son-of-hamfast/

As announced last week, the Player's Council will be releasing the first errata batch of cards onto Gemp in April, with the cards available during the weekend of the March PC League.  Here we go over Sam, Son of Hamfast, and what changes the new PC formats will apply.

If you have any thoughts, comments, or critiques on this, please feel free to post them here or on the PC Discord:  https://lotrtcgpc.net/discord

[Legion]

My main criticism of the arguements on here relate to fellowship block. In set 1, Nazgul ruled supreme. They were just too good, and so in set 2, Decipher hastily made some counter cards, including Filibert Bolger and Flaming Brand. Even with these, Nazgul still remained pretty dominant, and the main reason why Dwarves are generally considered uncompetitive. Hobbits also struggle since they have no way to remove Black Breath or Blade Tip. The most used strategy is Last Alliance: probably the most adept at handling Nazgul with incredibly strong companions. The change to Flaming Brand does not impact this fellowship nearly as much as others that do not run Last Alliance (such as Pipeweed: another deck that has Nazgul as it's worst matchup). In fact, it could even gain given that Arwen now gets access to the Brand. She's now an absolute powerhouse with Asfaloth, Gwemegil and the Brand. So I just worry that this change will tilt the metagame even more towards its most played deck type, something I feel no fan based errata should do. Personally, I'd be happier to see it on a knight in movie than Arwen in Fellowship. The main thing is to remove it from Eomer.

You make some good points. I don't think they're as good as Uruk-hai though, and this card has a lot to do with that. The solution to Nazgul Supremacy should never have been a splashed Aragorn at 14 strength or Boromir at 13. I haven't seen Pipeweed have a particularly hard time against Nazgul anyway. My all-Hobbit deck generally doesn't struggle much against them either if I can survive site 3, thanks to OEG and the fact that it's hard to get 2 Nazgul out again before site 7 or 8. If Dwarves or Hobbits are negatively impacted by more plentiful Nazgul overall I don't think it's totally fair to blame it on externalities from Flaming Brand. Last Alliance decks might still be best equipped to handle Nazgul, but they at least have to try now. And I definitely don't see this as a buff to them. I think Arwen gaining 1 strength against Nazgul is way overrated and 1 strength against Uruk-hai is underrated (but less so since they already have ways of dealing with possessions).

I also think Eomer wielding brand is overrated though, so maybe I'm crazy. I mean, did Wormtongue mean nothing to people? In my mind Firefoot + Eomer's Spear is better than any other combination of possessions for Third Marshal of Riddermark. It's the randos becoming Nazgul-stompers that I'd be more concerned about.

I don't disagree that Uruks are the most consistent Shadow in Fellowship Block, but I would argue that Nazgul (Ulaire Cantea with black breath and blade tip in particular) is something that every competitive deck needs to have an answer for (and why Dwarves are not viable).  Uruks are hard to double against, but only from site 4 or 5. Before that they can only do stuff if you flood the pool at Ettenmoors and they got the exact cards required. Nazgul punish Fellowships if they can't get set up early like no other Shadow. It's brutal. But if you do survive the initial onslaught, chances are you'll do just fine. My Pipeweed deck much preferred going up against Uruks than Nazgul. Since the weed and pipes don't help early, it can fall into the issue of being underequipped for their early carnage. Hobbit decks requiring Hobbiton Party Field almost always die at sites 2 or 3 to Nazgul without a ton of stealth early, and those not reliant on Bilbo aren't viable as they lose flat out to Moria or Grind.

However, this is getting a bit off topic. My main concern is that this change to Flaming Brand will make the metagame more stale for two reasons:

1: Flaming Brand is now better for Last Alliance decks against non-Nazgul as Arwen can bear it.
2: Nazgul will be more popular, which will make the best counter to them more popular: Last Alliance.

With the change to Elrond (barely affecting Last Alliance and really hurting Pipeweed) the issue is just compounded. I really don't like this change for Fellowship Block, but it does make him fair outside of it.

I like the change to Sam, though. In Fellowship block he's mainly used to offset high starting bids (either to facilitate our deny the Prancing Pony). He can still do this, but now at a cost to another companion (likely Frodo). This will make little difference to most shadows, but really helps Twilight Nazgul and is a good bonus to Moria Archery. Perhaps drop the second exertion if you can spot 4 hobbits?

[TelTura]

1: Flaming Brand is now better for Last Alliance decks against non-Nazgul as Arwen can bear it.
2: Nazgul will be more popular, which will make the best counter to them more popular: Last Alliance.

With the change to Elrond (barely affecting Last Alliance and really hurting Pipeweed) the issue is just compounded. I really don't like this change for Fellowship Block, but it does make him fair outside of it.

We definitely have our eye on Nazgul.  I think the initial meta shakeup is going to be in their favor, but we'll just keep that in mind for the coming months as we continue tweaking. 

I like the change to Sam, though. In Fellowship block he's mainly used to offset high starting bids (either to facilitate our deny the Prancing Pony). He can still do this, but now at a cost to another companion (likely Frodo). This will make little difference to most shadows, but really helps Twilight Nazgul and is a good bonus to Moria Archery. Perhaps drop the second exertion if you can spot 4 hobbits?

This is a great suggestion, and I've passed it on. 

Thanks for the feedback in general!  We appreciate people chiming in with their observations, and we're taking it into account.

[TelTura]

Errata post 4 of 5 for the April errata batch:

https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/03/02/errata-spoiler-horn-of-boromir/

As announced last week, the Player's Council will be releasing the first errata batch of cards onto Gemp in April, with the cards available during the weekend of the March PC League.  Here we go over Horn of Boromir, and what changes the new PC formats will apply.

If you have any thoughts, comments, or critiques on this, please feel free to post them here or on the PC Discord:  https://lotrtcgpc.net/discord

[Legion]

I like this. I'm fairly surprised this wasn't made the official errata (they did a similar thing to Thor's Map). I'd still consider this perfectly playable, but perhaps won't be ubiquitous in Fellowship block.

[TelTura]

Errata post 5 of 5 for the April errata batch:

https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/02/27/errata-spoiler-saruman-keeper-of-isengard/

As announced previously, the Player's Council will be releasing the first errata batch of cards onto Gemp in April, with the cards available during the weekend of the March PC League.  Here we go over the last errata for Saruman, Keeper of Isengard, and what changes the new PC formats will apply.

If you have any thoughts, comments, or critiques on this, please feel free to post them here or on the PC Discord:  https://lotrtcgpc.net/discord

[TelTura]

The changes above are now live on GEMP!  You can see the PC-Fellowship, PC-Movie, and PC-Expanded formats in the normal format drop-down, all of which disallow the old versions of the cards and can only use the 5 new errata. The CRD that goes with the new formats can be found here: https://files.lotrtcgpc.net/rulebooks/pc/crds/pc_crd_20210328_en-us.pdf

At the same time, we have now dumped all the rest of the FOTR-era cards that are on any X-List into the Playtest formats.  You can read about what those are here: https://blog.lotrtcgpc.net/2021/03/26/fellowship-errata-spoiler/

Reminder that if you want to play with those before they go into the PC formats officially, just go to the Playtesting tab at the top and opt-in to unlock the PLAYTEST-PC formats.

Any feedback on these errata are welcome!

[Phallen Cassidy]

How long do you intend to leave these cards on the cartoon templates? Is that the mark of a PC card? It's not bad and it's helpful to have a clear differentiator between Decipher and PC cards, just curious. For the most part the errata seem about on level. Some hit harder than others, but honestly I expected to have more issues than I do. Still got opinions though!

Sting -- I think it's pretty neat to make Sting half of Glamdring since Sting is only half a sword. I wonder if the twilight cap needed to be reduced though, since all pre-Shadows Orc shadow cultures have a way to play around it except Orcs who would probably prefer any added exertions, though I can't speak to the impact in Shadows+. With it only revealing 4 cards I'm not sure I'd mind my opponent trying to remove all 4 tokens no matter what my strategy is.

A Talent for Not Being Seen -- The biggest impact for this is that they can't bear Escape and a sword while choking. I guess that's alright though? That seems to have been Decipher's beef, that Hobbits were no longer necessarily weaklings with tricks. I think it's a clever change overall. Disappointing that A Promise choke decks lost this, but you can't avoid stepping on every second-tier strategy.

Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race -- It occurs to me that he's not good in Choke decks and not good in Dwarf decks and as you note, not a good choice in Shadows+ either. I question whether Decipher found that the twilight reduction was too strong or thought that the potential for twilight reduction could be too strong. I think he'll get another pass before long. My recommendation would be original text but I'll settle for +2 strength to get him in line with the other situational Gimlis (who trigger off better situations than "going second").

Ottar, Man of Laketown -- I think it's neat that he ended up as a mini Elrond. Still useful in the same contexts without bending the meta.

Relics of Moria -- I'd dispute the claim that this card doesn't start the machine. It's cheaper than Goblin Scavengers and doesn't cost any cards from hand. At any rate, the decision to wait until after Moria lost Cavern Entrance* to ban this card perplexes me so doing near-nothing sounds about right.

Forces of Mordor -- Honestly I'd do away with the limit here just to clean the card up. The exertion makes it difficult to use with the swarm minions of Towers who have to exert and remove twilight or discard cards to draw anyway. It'll be hard to hit except with troll swarm as you mention, and in those cases you'd really rather have another troll or engine in hand than this card. The limit or the exert would have done the trick, but again I don't suppose it really matters. It's not a card that worries me.

The Shire Countryside -- I disagree with the notion that this card makes it trivial to wipe all wounds, though I haven't found the official word on the matter either. According to the CRDs we have it was added sometime between September 2004 and January 2005. Shadows came out in November or so and with it came Erland, Dale Counselor. Exert Erland, take an event, play it, lose initiative, trigger A Light in His Mind, heal a companion with The Shire Countryside... Well shoot. So which card do they axe, one of the two new cards or the old one? I'd bet this ban was a quick fix for not adequately considering the possibilities, and was probably a big push in the direction of set rotation. The card put them in a bind to have to work around it, true, but they should've seen it coming and either banned it up front or worked around it. While the errata here makes loops impossible, it's difficult to use the card any other way as well. So: if the phase limit is what counts, revert the rest of the text. You'll kill loops and still deal your heavy hit to cards removing more than one burden without depriving it of all value.

On the one hand I've got some decks killed by these changes that I definitely don't want to leave behind, especially for ATfNBS and TSC which aren't banned in any format I play. On the other, using Sting outside of Fellowship block could be fun. Since everything is a nerf at this point it's hard to see myself being pulled into the PC formats unless I want to take a deck of mine that's unaffected and put it up against weaker decks. It'll be interesting to see what develops in the future.

[TelTura]

How long do you intend to leave these cards on the cartoon templates? Is that the mark of a PC card? It's not bad and it's helpful to have a clear differentiator between Decipher and PC cards, just curious.

The 5 that have been released have had their templates changed to the official ones already.  If they're still showing as the #$&*@! templates, you might need to do a hard-refresh (shift + F5 in many browsers) to clear the cache.

For the most part the errata seem about on level. Some hit harder than others, but honestly I expected to have more issues than I do. Still got opinions though!

High praise!

Sting -- I think it's pretty neat to make Sting half of Glamdring since Sting is only half a sword. I wonder if the twilight cap needed to be reduced though, since all pre-Shadows Orc shadow cultures have a way to play around it except Orcs who would probably prefer any added exertions, though I can't speak to the impact in Shadows+. With it only revealing 4 cards I'm not sure I'd mind my opponent trying to remove all 4 tokens no matter what my strategy is.

I agree, for what it's worth.  Every time I bring it up someone goes "I thought you were against choke", and I am, but at least in this case it's trading vitality for twilight, which some Shadows can capitalize on.

Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race -- It occurs to me that he's not good in Choke decks and not good in Dwarf decks and as you note, not a good choice in Shadows+ either. I question whether Decipher found that the twilight reduction was too strong or thought that the potential for twilight reduction could be too strong. I think he'll get another pass before long. My recommendation would be original text but I'll settle for +2 strength to get him in line with the other situational Gimlis (who trigger off better situations than "going second").

Yeah, Gimli is one where we shrugged and took Decipher at their word.  He will probably need further iteration to be competitive.

Relics of Moria -- I'd dispute the claim that this card doesn't start the machine. It's cheaper than Goblin Scavengers and doesn't cost any cards from hand. At any rate, the decision to wait until after Moria lost Cavern Entrance* to ban this card perplexes me so doing near-nothing sounds about right.

I don't doubt that it can start the engine, just that even when I see it played it doesn't seem to often be the first move, since the Scavenger start seems to beat it to the punch so often.  Maybe I just haven't been lucky enough to see it need to be the kickstart.

The Shire Countryside -- I disagree with the notion that this card makes it trivial to wipe all wounds, though I haven't found the official word on the matter either. According to the CRDs we have it was added sometime between September 2004 and January 2005. Shadows came out in November or so and with it came Erland, Dale Counselor. Exert Erland, take an event, play it, lose initiative, trigger A Light in His Mind, heal a companion with The Shire Countryside... Well shoot. So which card do they axe, one of the two new cards or the old one? I'd bet this ban was a quick fix for not adequately considering the possibilities, and was probably a big push in the direction of set rotation. The card put them in a bind to have to work around it, true, but they should've seen it coming and either banned it up front or worked around it. While the errata here makes loops impossible, it's difficult to use the card any other way as well. So: if the phase limit is what counts, revert the rest of the text. You'll kill loops and still deal your heavy hit to cards removing more than one burden without depriving it of all value.

It might have gotten double-nerfed. 

On the one hand I've got some decks killed by these changes that I definitely don't want to leave behind, especially for ATfNBS and TSC which aren't banned in any format I play. On the other, using Sting outside of Fellowship block could be fun. Since everything is a nerf at this point it's hard to see myself being pulled into the PC formats unless I want to take a deck of mine that's unaffected and put it up against weaker decks. It'll be interesting to see what develops in the future.

Yeah, nerfs are only exciting if they hit cards that one personally finds offensive--for that reason, I expect to see people up in arms about HttWC and who dislike choke in general to be attracted to this, just as others will be attracted when GLR and Grond are addressed.  But yeah, the formats won't truly start to come unto its own until Phase 3--when we finally get to start buffing the real stinkers and offering essentially new cards that could really start to mix things up.  Not to mention the actual new cards themselves, too.