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Author Topic: I feel like Magic the Gathering  (Read 4630 times)

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November 12, 2013, 03:09:13 PM
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ToPaxyGourouni

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I feel like Magic the Gathering
« on: November 12, 2013, 03:09:13 PM »
I love challenges. For the last 10 years that I have been playing Lotr, I have always strived to make decks none has seen before. I have played 190 card decks that build themselves in the first site, I have built decks with nothing but gandalf events, I have built a shadow deck that almost always kills the opponent in site 2. And I want more :)

So I was watching some MtG lately, in the legacy format. One of the famous legacy combos is Sensei's Divining Top + Counterbalance. For those not following the game, this combo lets you rearrange the top of your deck all the time and if your opponent plays a card that has the same cost as the top card of your deck, then the Counterbalance will not let them play the card. So by continuously rearranging the top cards of your deck you can keep your opponent locked out forever.

So I thought "Lotr is as good game as any to bring this concept into effect". Ergo my new try. I call it "Lockapult". Yes, it's a stupid name.

The main thought revolves around using Catapult all the time to maximize its effect. Catapult is an amazing card, able to discard ANYTHING in the maneuver phase, making it effectively the hardest counter against any shadow IF IT HITS. But we don't want to just be lucky, do we?

First problem is that the Catapult does not reveal OUR deck, it reveals our opponent's deck. What we do about that? We do Halls of my Home. This allows us to look at the opponent's deck and rearrange the top cards so that our catapult does not fire at random. Since this happens after they reconcile, we get to keep his card on top during the shadow phase.

What we need now is to be able to know what's in our opponent's hand, so that we can put what we need on top of his deck, and maybe even force his hand a bit to our advantage. That's what gandalf does. The Palantir of Orthank, Recovered Seeing Stone and Treachery Deeper than you know let us see the opponent's hand, look at his minions' twilight cost and then cast our Halls of my Home to prepare to hard counter his only win condition: his minions.

In addition to that, A new Light lets us even make his hand into something we can discard more easily by giving him the twilight cost we can discard with Catapult.

So the combo consists of Catapult, Halls of my Home, The Palantir of Orthank, A new light, Treachery deeper than you know. It effectively goes like this: "Palantir of orthank, look their hand, see 3 minions with casting cost 3 and one with 4. Play a new light, return a 3 cost to hand, discard a 4 cost. Play Halls of my Home, put a 3 cost card on top of the opponent's deck. Whatever comes down you can catapult away.

This is quite a stacked combo, because it needs a dwarf with lots of vitality, gandalf and two knights to even be able to assemble. Therefore the easiest path seems to be Gimli, Bearer of Grudges, Gandalf, Leader of Men, Isildur, Sword-bearer and Aragorn+ Elendil as bonus knights to make the Catapult work.

The deck also needs ways to take back its events. Grimir, Dwarven Elder and Ring of Guile help us get Halls of my Home back, Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor and fireworks to get our A new light back. We also need a lot of draw since we will be discarding our hand a lot. Gimli with delving and Questions that need answers can both help us. Finally we will need some healing for our dwarf, so Dark Ways and Isildur can come handy.

The deck can also benefit from cards like What are we waiting for? etc.

The main problem is that the fellowship consists of too many cards. The second problem is what happens if our Halls of my home do not reveal the twilight costs that we want.

That's why I need your help to overcome those problems. Any input for the deck and how it would fare anyone???

November 12, 2013, 04:57:47 PM
Reply #1

Shelobplayer

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 04:57:47 PM »
First of all Catapult and the strategy you described is very sweet, and has some potential, but keep it in mind that unlike the counter/top combo in MTG, you can only hit ONE cost with it a turn compared to the soft lock counterbalance delivers, so it may be unwise to completely center your deck around it. Also since Halls of my Home reveals those cards to both players, it'd make it easier for the shadow player to play around it (plus any form of card draw messes up your setup).

The original FOTR Glamdring + some universal healing is probably better than Treachery Deeper than you Know, especially if you are up against orcs (and makes your deck thinner).

I wanted to use Catapult with Arwen's Dagger + initiative tricks, but Halls of my Home sounds pretty cool with it too, I guess changing ring bearer to Gimli from Isildur is not such a big deal. Not sure if the same deck can have both techs though, as it'd result in it being very tall and hence inconsistent.

I'd also pack the deck with some major hate cards vs Corsairs, as Corsair Marauder would be really devastating against a strategy centered so heavily around a possession (A New Light is a nice start to get rid of Corsair Marauder, but the ships will still bring it back).

My suggestion all in all is not to waste too many deck slots just to set up your Catapult, it is a very underrated card in itself I believe (and can be VERY frustrating to play against), and can work great even without setup, and Halls of my Home and a New Light are both okay too, but investing more to catapult is not a great idea I believe.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 05:04:10 PM by Shelobplayer »

November 12, 2013, 05:14:12 PM
Reply #2

ToPaxyGourouni

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 05:14:12 PM »
I was building an expanded deck, not a movie :) Glamdring is illegal in expanded, and corsairs are almost never played. A new light + palantir of orthank make sure that I will almost always discard the marauder. Also I play 4 catapults, I can play multiples and I just need one site to discard almost all of the ships.

I know this will not be a powerhouse deck, I just wanted to take an MtG idea and apply it to Lotr :)

November 12, 2013, 07:56:58 PM
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Shelobplayer

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 07:56:58 PM »
I had no idea Glamdring was banned :D
 
EDIT: Glamdring is expanded legal, just checked.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 03:49:08 AM by Shelobplayer »

November 15, 2013, 11:18:00 AM
Reply #4

sgtdraino

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 11:18:00 AM »
Good luck with your mission! I too really wanted to do a catapult deck, but was never able to get it working effectively. An idea or two: One thing that I tried using, was Gladden Homestead. In this way, if your opponent is using any conditions, you can put those on top of his deck and use them in conjunction with catapult. Another upside is that Smeagol stuff can speed up setup time significantly. The downside is that most conditions don't have a very high twilight number.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

November 17, 2013, 11:28:35 AM
Reply #5

ToPaxyGourouni

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 11:28:35 AM »
Gladden Homestead seems funky. Will definitely mess up orc discards or goblin hordes decks. Hm hm hm hm.

November 21, 2013, 12:23:22 AM
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ToPaxyGourouni

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 12:23:22 AM »
My first approach is something like this:

Ring-bearer: Gimli, Bearer of Grudges
Ring: The One Ring, The Ring of Doom

Adventure deck:

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Leader of Men
1x Smeagol, Simple Stoor
4x Aragorn, Captain of Gondor
1x Isildur, Sword-Bearer
2x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
2x Glamdring
4x Catapult
1x Gandalf's Staff
1x Narya
1x The Palantir of Orthanc, Recovered Seeing Stone
1x Anduril, Flame of the West
1x Narsil, Blade of the Faithful
3x Sapling of the White Tree
1x Scroll of Isildur
4x Halls of My Home
3x A New Light
1x Fireworks
1x Grown Suddenly Tall
1x Roll of Thunder
1x Not Listening
2x Gladden Homestead
4x There's Another Way
4x Deagol, Fateful Finder


Unfortunately, even though I clipped out too many useful cards, I am still up to 47 cards and that's without any kind of draw. I needed some gondorian possesions to pump up my knights (armor, mount, bow) and also more ways to bring back my events, but I don't seem to be able to fit everything into the deck. Any ideas of how to improve it?

July 26, 2022, 01:04:01 PM
Reply #7

Tunadan

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2022, 01:04:01 PM »
I found this topic when absently scrolling, and it caught my interest. I tried to figure out how you could consistently get Catapult set up, keep it on the table as much as possible, and then have a backup plan. So I'm going to try a SFTF approach. I burn the useless knight at the beginning, then grab two knights + Catapult if I haven't drawn it yet. If I have drawn it, I grab Shards of Narsil. Then you can stack catapults on Shards for later if the original is discarded. You can skirmish decently and remove burdens, but perhaps adding tokens or fortifications would be a good idea.

The Shadow is built to cycle and harass. You can filter your hand with Moving This Way, then toss any Nazgûl that you have once you're playing freeps to Catapult, Smeagol, Don't Look at them. Plus the Nazgûl are merely stored at the bottom of the deck.

Ring-bearer: Gimli, Bearer of Grudges
Ring: The One Ring, The Ring of Doom

Adventure deck:
The Angle
Buckland Homestead
Woody-End
Neekerbreekers' Bog
Isengard Ruined
Mithlond
Barazinbar
Imladris
Sirannon Ruins

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Leader of Men
1x Smeagol, Poor Creature
2x Aragorn, Captain of Gondor
2x Elendil, High-King of Gondor
1x Gondorian Knight
1x Isildur, Sword-Bearer
2x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
4x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Gimli's Battle Axe, Trusted Weapon
1x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
4x Catapult
1x Ring of Retribution
1x Gandalf's Staff
1x The Palantir of Orthanc, Recovered Seeing Stone
1x Anduril, Sword That Was Broken
1x Narsil, Forged by Telchar
1x The Shards of Narsil
4x Halls of My Home
3x A New Light
1x Deep in Thought
2x Roll of Thunder
4x Saved From the Fire
2x Treachery Deeper Than You Know
1x Don't Look at Them
1x Gladden Homestead

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Black Rider
4x The Witch-king, Dark Lord
4x Úlairë Attëa, Black Predator
4x Úlairë Cantëa, Faster Than Winds
4x Úlairë Enquëa, Dark Threat
4x Úlairë Lemenya, Servant of the Shadow
3x Úlairë Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
4x Úlairë Nertëa, Dark Horseman
4x Úlairë Otsëa, Duplicitous Specter
3x Úlairë Toldëa, Black Shadow
1x Ring of Terror
2x Too Great and Terrible
4x Moving This Way

I intend to test this once Halls of my Home is fixed on GEMP.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 01:05:39 PM by Tunadan »
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

July 30, 2022, 08:19:59 AM
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Shelobplayer

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2022, 08:19:59 AM »
I'm confused about 3 A New Light and 2 Treachery Deeper than you know. A New Light is strictly better under any imaginable circumstance. I'd run 4-0. Starting fellowship could be 2 Gondorian Prowlers and Madril over the knight, then you could run Ithilien Blades (you have Shadowfax and Gimli to add threats). You can add Armor of the White City to turn Madril into a knight for spotting requirements. 4 cultures in expanded is suicide in most cases, I'd ditch Smeagol, Southron Leader would wreck havoc against you (I literally put Southron Leader into every single expanded deck). I'd add a Wise Guide and Sent Back, as Sudden Strike is very popular in expanded and a shuffle effect can turn your Catapult useless (and Wise Guide is just super strong in many cases). Flame of the West is a beastly card in expanded, if you are not planning to play other weapons on Aragorn, I'd stick to it.

July 30, 2022, 11:57:00 AM
Reply #9

Tunadan

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2022, 11:57:00 AM »
I agree in ANL, Sent Back, and Wise Guide, but I really wanted to not have a easy power card like Madril in there. I'll test it with the changes and see if Madril is necessary, but if he is, then I've failed the objective tbh.
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

July 30, 2022, 01:44:53 PM
Reply #10

Shelobplayer

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Re: I feel like Magic the Gathering
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2022, 01:44:53 PM »
Honestly, even if you have 100% hit rate with Catapult, I doubt it's enough by itself in expanded, and a str 11 Elendil won't solve the leftovers. Maybe in movie block. Maybe try to keep replaying ANL a LOT, so one hit is enough (I actually do this with my pipeweed deck a LOT). It can be done by Kings' Legacy + Isildur winning skirmishes + Barliman, PPP or Dasron.

I would also not leave Mount Doom out of any expanded deck. Some strategies are just way too painful to deal with if allowed to replay specific sites.

People respect metagame in movie block and earlier formats, but not in expanded and it's weird to me. Like the rule of 5 is commonly known because of shotgun Enquea and Greed, Foul Creation is played in FOTR because of Keeper of Isengard, and so on, but in expanded cards are rather just branded power cards instead of giving similar respect. I play this game since its inception, and it's easy to see why, but I still can't agree with it (competitive play at large ended around movie block, so a real meta was never established before GEMP).

I'm never unhappy to see Madril on the opposing end of the table, only thing that gets to me is dwarven self deck discard, because of how long each turn takes (and not because of power level).