Sauron Besiegers swarm. (shadow only)

[alehaak]

Shadow (35)
2x *Encirclement (7R268)
2x *Tower Walkway (7C315)
3x *Troop Tower (7R316)
4x Great Siege-towers (7U281)
3x Some Secret Art of Flame (7C313)
2x Their Marching Companies (8U107)
3x Din of Arms (7R267)
3x *Troll of Gorgoroth, Abomination of Sauron (8R108)
4x Gorgoroth Berserker (8R96)
2x Gorgoroth Keeper (10C86)
4x Olog-Hai of Mordor (8R105)
3x Siege Troop (8C106)

I don't know what to do here... the main idea is the famous (?!) besieger swarm... but isn't working...
help!

[Elrohir]

Although I like to play besiegers, it is hard to tell you how to play them to "moriazise" the free-people-players ringbearer.

Here are my suggestios:

+2 Gorgoroth swarm
+ Above the battlement
+2 Gorgoroth Agitator
+2 Gorgoroth Assassin
-1 Troop Tower
-1 Some Secret Art of Flame
-2 Gorgoroth Berserker
-1 Ologhai of Mordor
-2 Great Siege Towers

Alternatives: Gothmog, Gothmogs Warg, Grond

for Expanded: Dead Marshes, Grishnak, Goblin Runner, Forces of Mordor ....

[Elessar's Socks]

Besiegers have so many card choices. I guess my builds are determined in large part by the condition removal present in the environment. I think you can build a mean Troll swarm in Movie block (pack a full set of Great Hill Troll, and maybe copies of Terrible as the Dawn to knock out Lady Redeemed), but in Expanded the engines might not remain too long on the table.

Not sure how normal this is, but I like to ramp up on threats using a Gollum engine. Site control is mostly handled by Gorgoroth Berserker (ditching Siege Troop completely) and Troop Tower. Then with the help of Gorgoroth Troop and Their Marching Companies, stack whatever Besiegers you can until you're ready to swarm. Gorgoroth Agitator replays Troop Tower and TMC if they were discarded earlier, and a whole bunch of minions comes down with the additional aid of Encirclement and Ithil Stone. If you're at Cavern Entrance, hopefully the minions on the Ring-bearer are enough for an overwhelm. If not, then use Gorgoroth Troop to restack besiegers for Troop Tower until the strength on the Ring-bearer is maximized. Kind of difficult to play, but it can result in some nice swarms.

Oh, and Gorgoroth Soldier is a really good card. Wound prevention can turn the tide, and he makes a good early drop with Troop Tower.

[King89]

i just counted 16 minions... not enough to swarm a good fellowship ;-)

[Pepin The Breve]

   I have a Besigers deck although a don´t run a threat engine on it. Basically i just play a lot of engines, control some sites and stack people on it. If your opponent don´t run mass condition discard (with Gandy for example), don´t liberate sites or don´t discard all your minions at regroup (with Smeagol RB for example) soon you will have a bunch of fierce big minions at the table and i can tell: they can do a lot of damage...

   I tend to stay away from packing too much minions that need spoting a sauron orc or are just too expensive...

   My suggestions:
- add Gorgoroth Assasin - He is very cheap and his hability can be just a finisher for your opponent if he/she don´t play with ringbound-people, cause you can both aim him on a weak almost dead character or put him in the strongest one while your big trolls overwhelm the other guys. You can also put two on the same companion... 
- If you are playing movie block definitly add Great Hill Troll, he discard conditions and can be a cheap big fierce fat minion when you have enough engines at table (and don´t need any spotting to play...)
- I don´t have time right now but later i can post my deck here...the main difference is that i pack more cheaper minion and less condition (i learn that few minions with guys that need spotting to play is almost certain that you will get your hand clogged) and i go for stacking them at sites to abuse Troop Tower (don´t forget Gorgoroth Pillager  ).

[Pepin The Breve]

i just counted 16 minions... not enough to swarm a good fellowship ;-)

   You can "swarm" a good fellowship with 4 or 5 big fierce minions   

[SomeRandomDude]

Not really, actually. You do need more minions. Drop Some Secret Art of Flame, you have it for what, 1 minion? Not worth it. Same with Great Siege Towers. Not worth it. Gorgoroth Agitator, however, PWNS, especially with Great Peril of Fire. So add 4. I'd also drop the Olog-Hai and the Berserker because they're too pricey. Add 11 cheaper minions, including some that are unabashed swarm minions. Gorgoroth Sapper? 4 copies. 2 more Gorgoroth Keeper. Gorgoroth Pillager x 2, et cetera.

I'd even toss in some Dunlending Elder.

[Elrohir]

You can also put two on the same companion... 

Characters who are already assigned, may not be assigned by an assignment special ability - but I like Gorgoroth Assassin 

Try Orc Pursuer - if you have initiative anyway...-very nice, if encirclement reduces his costs to zero! That is cheap swarm!

[leokula]

After playing with and aggainst this deck hundreds of times, I know how to build it almost by heart.

First, drop 1x tower walkway and add 1x Troop tower. Troop tower is the key card to this deck, you need four cause you can't be afraid to discard it to take control of a site. The sooner you control the first site, the sooner you start stacking your guys and then the fun starts. Remember, with besiegers it doesn't matter that much how many sites you control, but how many stacked guys you have, cause that will give you strength bonus and will help you drop your ologs. They HAVE to come free and all at once. If someone tells you not to play 4x Ologs it's because this someone never played besiegers and have no idea what they're talking about

@NB: Olog too pricey? LMAO congrats NB, another very useful post u clearly have no idea what a besieger deck is like and yet ur trying to teach someone! 

@King98: Not enough minions? LMAO this is not Moria not Forest Nazguls, sorry... we can all count minions, so if you can't add something else, just leave it 

Drop all Great Siege-towers, Some Secret Art of Flame and Their Marching Companies... just slow and unefficient in this deck, forget them. Forget about the berserker too, and forget about threats... it's not what besiegers are all about, unless you want to do your own version of besiegers, but seems like urs is not working and you want one that works

This deck focus on (in this order):
.controlling sites
.stacking guys
.playing, ALL AT ONCE, 4x ologs for free + keepers stacked + minions in your hand + minions you play after olog wins

For controlling sites:
1x Tower Walkway
4x Troop Tower
4x Siege Troop
4x Din of Arms

For stacking guys:
3x Gorgoroth Keeper - perfect, stacks and plays later on the swarm
3x Gorgoroth Breaker - Seems odd at first, but you'll always stack him and it means +1 for all your guys for each breaker stacked.
2x Gorgoroth Troop - Stacks plus helps eventual overwhelming. Use him to stack keepers if u see they won't survive until regroup. Pretty much stack everything u can, actually :hey:
2x Gorgoroth Pillager - This was my latest addition since it raised deck size to 37... this is how my brother plays and the pillager stacked makes a #$&*@! of a difference... anyway, if you wanna keep under 35, I think he's the one that should be cut.
4x Gorgoroth Assassin - multi functional usually just assign him to anybody, makes sure he survives, discard him and troop tower to take a site, that's how he works... later, use him on the swarm to fight the big guy and let the ologs free. I have had my Cirdan fight him inumerous times while other ologs were eating my companions alive 

And finally...
4x Olog-hai of mordor - The star of the deck 
2x Encirclement
2x Ithil Stone
2x Grond, Hammer of the Underworld

To a total of 35 or 37 cards. I think this is the correct way to play besiegers. This deck IS slow, you need a fellowship good enough to hold until you have the bomb, but the bomb is so huge, it's ridiculous: you'll be playing 4 ologs for free, plus all keepers stacked plus all minions in your hand, and as ologs win, you play more besiegers... with 4 stacked minions and 3 sites controlled, all your besiegers are +7 and fierce if pillager is stacked.

Did I say I love them?

[TheJord]

Sounds like you know what you are talking leokula!

[Elrohir]

I think, we are all convinced what we are talking about 

If anyone wants to know how my besiegers work, I will list them. Problem is: they do not swarm, so it might not fit to this topic.

Leokula: you are right, but king89 is also right. It depends on which strategy you try to win. I play 30 cards (20 minions)

[leokula]

thanx tj! i don't want to sound like a tool but i DO know what i'tm talking about from being beat by this deck over and over lol

Sure elhoir, i know that minion count is very relevant In a swarm deck, its just that sometimes when someone asks for help, they're usually expecting more than "play more minions"

[Gate Troll]

Sounds like you know what you are talking leokula!

I think, we are all convinced what we are talking about 

Well, of course everyone's convinced about what they are talking about. Duh. 
I think he means that leokula has experience with this deck type. English isn't your first language is it? 

[Elessar's Socks]

Hmm... this is the build I'm using for Moria-esque swarming:

32 cards.

1 Gollum, Old Villain
3 Gorgoroth Agitator
3 Gorgoroth Berserker
4 Gorgoroth Keeper
4 Gorgoroth Soldier
2 Gorgoroth Swarm
3 Gorgoroth Troop

1 Ithil Stone

1 Encirclement
1 Fat One Wants It
2 Their Marching Companies
3 Troop Tower

4 Captured by the Ring

Against mass wounding, Gollum soaks undirected wounds, Gorgoroth Soldier eats directed wounds, and threats generally interfere with some of the nastier cards like the Silvan brothers and Aragorn's Bow, Ranger's Longbow. It stinks if Shadowplay blocks the Berserker (I guess you could tech by playing Gothmog's Warg next if the FP player was careless), but that's what Troop Tower is for.

I do like the Berserker better than the Siege Troop for site control, since the former takes control of a site in an earlier phase (you can begin stacking the same site), and that's also fewer phases for the FP to cause problems.

Forgot to mention Gorgoroth Swarm earlier. Great against mass fellowships by retrieving discarded besiegers, plus extra controlled sites in the Shadow phase.

Pair it with a fellowship that cycles well so you can get sites early and stack early.

[SomeRandomDude]

Leokula...I'm not the most familiar with besiegers, but I was under the impression he was trying to build a straightforward swarm deck such as Moria, which is also a competitive variant of the Sauron besieger deck, though not the classic. So I was trying to help him out with that. So you play a different style. SO WHAT? If you want a typical besieger deck, I need to introduce you to friend of mine who runs besiegers that can beat the tar out of your deck. Let's just say...wtf no Gothmog? But if you're going to post as a different variant of besiegers, I recommend a different topic.

Also, I don't mind you getting ticked off at me, you seem to have some chip under your shoulder about my posts (BTW, I will take you on sometime at SdA and see who has the last laugh), but please at least try to be respectful to other people. If you feel that other people don't have your amazing expertise and deck-building skills, don't run 'em off. LotR is for all kinds of players and some people are more familiar than others. And BTW, representing the swarm deck we were talking about, and the thread author posted, 16 minions is NOT enough.

Sweet deck ES. That's a swarm build that can actually produce raw power instead of messing around with tricky plays that could get disrupted easily.

[Gil-Estel]

I'll put some Christmas spirit in this discussion...You all make good points....

[Gate Troll]

After playing with and aggainst this deck hundreds of times, I know how to build it almost by heart.

Great. I don't think alehaak asked for an 'expert' to come and tell him exactly what was wrong with his deck. 

First, drop 1x tower walkway and add 1x Troop tower. Troop tower is the key card to this deck, you need four cause you can't be afraid to discard it to take control of a site. The sooner you control the first site, the sooner you start stacking your guys and then the fun starts. Remember, with besiegers it doesn't matter that much how many sites you control, but how many stacked guys you have, cause that will give you strength bonus and will help you drop your ologs. They HAVE to come free and all at once. If someone tells you not to play 4x Ologs it's because this someone never played besiegers and have no idea what they're talking about

@NB: Olog too pricey? LMAO congrats NB, another very useful post u clearly have no idea what a besieger deck is like and yet ur trying to teach someone! 

NBarden may not know exactly how to build your 'wonder-deck' but that doesn't mean he has no idea what a besieger deck is like. There actually are other types besieger decks out there. Isn't that amazing? 

@King98: Not enough minions? LMAO this is not Moria not Forest Nazguls, sorry... we can all count minions, so if you can't add something else, just leave it 

Who put you in charge? NBarden and King98 are actually helping alehaak better than you are, they're giving
suggestions relevant to the deck type instead of arrogantly telling him how to build a 'correct' deck. 

Drop all Great Siege-towers, Some Secret Art of Flame and Their Marching Companies... just slow and unefficient in this deck, forget them. Forget about the berserker too, and forget about threats... it's not what besiegers are all about, unless you want to do your own version of besiegers, but seems like urs is not working and you want one that works

Possibly the most arrogant paragraph yet! Once again ordering him to 'forget about threats', I've played besieger threats before and while they don't drop a huge bomb they work just fine. Who are you to say, 'threats are not what besiegers are all about'? The next sentence is even worse: 'unless you want to do your own version of besiegers, but seems like urs is not working and you want one that works'. Of course he wants to do his own version! And who are you to say that it doesn't seem like it 'works'? You probably haven't even play-tested his deck yet. 

This deck focus on (in this order):
.controlling sites
.stacking guys
.playing, ALL AT ONCE, 4x ologs for free + keepers stacked + minions in your hand + minions you play after olog wins

For controlling sites:
1x Tower Walkway
4x Troop Tower
4x Siege Troop
4x Din of Arms

For stacking guys:
3x Gorgoroth Keeper - perfect, stacks and plays later on the swarm
3x Gorgoroth Breaker - Seems odd at first, but you'll always stack him and it means +1 for all your guys for each breaker stacked.
2x Gorgoroth Troop - Stacks plus helps eventual overwhelming. Use him to stack keepers if u see they won't survive until regroup. Pretty much stack everything u can, actually :hey:
2x Gorgoroth Pillager - This was my latest addition since it raised deck size to 37... this is how my brother plays and the pillager stacked makes a #$&*@! of a difference... anyway, if you wanna keep under 35, I think he's the one that should be cut.
4x Gorgoroth Assassin - multi functional usually just assign him to anybody, makes sure he survives, discard him and troop tower to take a site, that's how he works... later, use him on the swarm to fight the big guy and let the ologs free. I have had my Cirdan fight him inumerous times while other ologs were eating my companions alive 

And finally...
4x Olog-hai of mordor - The star of the deck 
2x Encirclement
2x Ithil Stone
2x Grond, Hammer of the Underworld

Great. I don't think anyone asked for your deck list, Mr. Know-it-all. Go tell someone who cares, and take your unfathomable arrogance with you.

To a total of 35 or 37 cards. I think this is the correct way to play besiegers. This deck IS slow, you need a fellowship good enough to hold until you have the bomb, but the bomb is so huge, it's ridiculous: you'll be playing 4 ologs for free, plus all keepers stacked plus all minions in your hand, and as ologs win, you play more besiegers... with 4 stacked minions and 3 sites controlled, all your besiegers are +7 and fierce if pillager is stacked.

There is no 'correct' way to play besiegers. There are many good ways. You may know how to build a good besieger bomb deck but that doesn't qualify you as an expert on all deck types using besiegers. When someone posts a deck they are usually looking for ideas to make the deck better, not re-write it completely. Go start your own besieger deck topic instead of completely rebuilding alehaak's deck for him.

Did I say I love them?

Yes you did. You never mentioned how much you love to be condescending to 'decks that don't work' however.

[leokula]

Sorry, but all I read is yak yak yak 

About his deck nor working, I really didn't playtest, but somebody else wrote the deck wasn't working before I did...

I don't know what to do here... the main idea is the famous (?!) besieger swarm... but isn't working...
help!

"Oops!! It was alehaak!! That's why he created the topic!! The deck wasn't working so he asked for help!! Gees how could I miss it !!" LMAO

Anyway the topic is about besiegers. If you want to tell me how much I suck, PM please.

BTW, I don't blame any of you for being new around here, but i'm a friend of alehaak, played personally with him, went to barbecues with him and he's not offended by my "arrogance" so far, as much as you are. He asked about besiegers and I answered. If you're offended in his place or want to play his mom, again, PM me. LOL

[SomeRandomDude]

leokula, it was not alehaak that you were being offensive to.

[Pepin The Breve]

   

You can also put two on the same companion... 

Characters who are already assigned, may not be assigned by an assignment special ability - but I like Gorgoroth Assassin 

  Yeah...i guess you are right, i always forget that 

  Hey people no need to be rough with each other right? I guees everyone has a different idea on which way is the best to go with besigers and the best i think we do is read and respect them all, even if we think that the idea isn´t gonna work properly...

   For exemple, i like to mix besigers "control and stack" with a little bit of Troll Swarm to get 4 or 5 big fierce minions in play at once (discarding some key conditions). So my main points are:
- Troop Tower is really awesome in this deck (i pack 3 on my deck) since is one nice way to get your site and start to stack people on it (and abuse it´s text)
- I put a lot of minions on it. Most of them are chep besigers with some auto-stacking hability like Gorgoroth Keeper and Gorgoroth Breaker and some that stack the others, like Gorgoroth Garrison.
- I add engines like Great Siege Towers cause they don´t need spoting to play, makes my Trolls cheaper and help to pump my minions. Playing with it i find it very useful.
- i add Great Hill Troll X4 (i love his text) for a big cheap guy that don´t need spoting and one or two Troll of Gorgoroth and Olog-Hai of Mordor cause they can be also cheap big minions (and i have only one or two copies of Olog  ).
- I run a 34 card deck which have around 22-24 minions and it works nice  .

[tim1247]

 ;DHi , i started playing besieger 2 days ago and made only one deck (32 shadow cards ;movie deck), i playtest it once and it works well.
The Key cards are:
Troop Tower x3: For very early site controlling ,i discard any besieger with this card at the beginning to control sites asap.

Gorgoroth Breaker x4/Gorgoroth Keeper x4: They are awesome for their self-stacking ability, i always stack them once possible.

Tower Walkway x1: For besieger bonus as u control more sites.

Great Hill Troll x4: I played 6 engines to lower the cost of this troll, its awsome for its condition discard and strength.

  Olog-Hai of Mordor x4: The most powerful part of my deck---> i pull 4 of them at the same time with cost 0 at site 8 or 9 together with Great Hill Trolls which cost 3( all trolls with the strength bouns of +3 from tower walkway)... they totally overwhelm the fellowship....


I combined this deck with my Gondor Knights, they are in movie format.
Any suggestions or ideas?

[itjunkie]

@leokula: how exactly do you play minions stacked on sites with your build? i seem to see only olog hai...or am i missing something?

@ES: very nice build being able to stack and play minions from sites easily... but leo has turned me into an olog hai fan... would it be good to put in ologs in your build?