Ferny Frost Attack

[Cw0rk]

Sites 
(4) Pass of Caradhras (1U348) 
(7) Anduin Wilderland (1C354) 
(9) Slopes of Amon Hen (1U361) 
 
Shadow (30) 
4x Saruman's Frost (1U135) 
4x Saruman's Snows (1C138) 
4x Parry (1R132) 
4x *Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow (2R75) 
4x Goblin Runner (1U178) 
2x Isengard Shaman (3C59) 
4x Isengard Warrior (3U61) 
4x Uruk Savage (1C151) 

This is a classic. People were playing this many years ago.

Basically, the objective is to have Ferny overwhelm Frodo using Saruman's Frost to make him strength 2. If he has the sword, use Parry. Use Saruman's Snows to make sure he doesn't get stronger. Isengard Warrior stops arrows from killing Ferny.

This deck could be defeated by Albert Dreary, Orc-Bane, Secret Sentinels and many more but it's still a decent trick. I guess No Ordinary Storm and Tower Assassin could be added. Maybe that it would work well using Saruman and A Fell Voice on the air, but I just made this deck in 5 minutes and I didn't have time to playtest it.

[ket_the_jet]

For some reason, I remember another four Uruk-Hai to go along with the four Parry. Uruk Soldier...is he the 7-1, guy?
-wtk

[Cw0rk]

Yeah, but if I'd put another Uruk-Hai in, it would be another one, maybe Uruk Spy due to additional Vitality point which could help playing more weather conditions.

[Witchkingx5]

Is it possible to build a similar Deck in Movie? Maybe a little more efficient against Maneuver wounding?

Btw, what do you think of adding Spies of Saruman? And maybe some Shotgun Enquea to cause some trouble and kill off the strongest companions when facing a big fellowship?

[legolas3333]

once again WK i must point out that in a RB kill deck, shoutgun enquea is overkill as the number of companions doesn't matter if your only goal is to overwhelm the RB using ferny

[Cw0rk]

A deck like this will not work in movie block because of the alternate ring-bearers and the maneuver wounding.

[Kaiser Kirby]

Oh wow, I've never heard of this type of deck before.  I need to go build this.

Perhaps thrown in a couple Morgul Skulkers to cycle Ferny back in?

[Cw0rk]

I just thought that Sam would cause big issues to this deck. A Promise, O Elbereth and There and back again as well. I would have to use Ferny twice vs Sam. Adding Helpless and Nazgul would make me include too many different cards. Seems like Saruman's Power is essential. I'll add Saruman as well, if I can assign an Uruk to a Strength -2 Sam, he could die.

I wanna stay at 33 cards max. I'm thinking about using Spies of Saruman instead of the Isengard Orcs.

To counter Secret Sentinels, I'll put Legolas and The White Arrow of Lorien in my fellowship.

[Ringbearer]

Still, Secret Sentinels will ruin your day, and trust me, that card is widely played. I would rather play the Anduin Confluence as site 7 to ditch all Elf allies, and also I would consider Spies of Saruman if you can make space for it.

[Witchkingx5]

Still, Secret Sentinels will ruin your day, and trust me, that card is widely played. I would rather play the Anduin Confluence as site 7 to ditch all Elf allies, and also I would consider Spies of Saruman if you can make space for it.

What he says is the truth, and trust him, maybe take a look at his success rate in the FotR Block league...

[Cw0rk]

Still, Secret Sentinels will ruin your day, and trust me, that card is widely played. I would rather play the Anduin Confluence as site 7 to ditch all Elf allies, and also I would consider Spies of Saruman if you can make space for it.

Yeah, I know that Secret Sentinels is dangerous. Using Anduin Confluence may be a good idea.

Keep in mind that I made this deck in 5 minutes, it was just to show the idea to some players who might have never heard about it.

What he says is the truth, and trust him, maybe take a look at his success rate in the FotR Block league...

[simplegarak]

I just thought that Sam would cause big issues to this deck. A Promise, O Elbereth and There and back again as well. I would have to use Ferny twice vs Sam. Adding Helpless and Nazgul would make me include too many different cards. Seems like Saruman's Power is essential. I'll add Saruman as well, if I can assign an Uruk to a Strength -2 Sam, he could die.

I wanna stay at 33 cards max. I'm thinking about using Spies of Saruman instead of the Isengard Orcs.

To counter Secret Sentinels, I'll put Legolas and The White Arrow of Lorien in my fellowship.

Definitely use Spies of Saruman.  You'll also want Isenguard Smith and Saruman's Power (drop power right before you "snow" the board).

Also, if you get REALLY concerned about being shot down, just throw in Greed, much better for Isen than Shotgun enquea and can eliminate a Sam.

Finally, if you're concerned about Sam, then throw in an extra Bill so you can pull off the conditions twice.

[Faelach]

This deck is ingenious.  I love these decks that are insanely weird, but amazingly effective.  It's hard because the focus is on one minion, so a horrible draw could really screw you up.  But considering the deck size and the 4 copies of Bill, it seems like it will work great.

Morgul Skirmisher COULD be great, but it's probably not worth the slots.

[Cw0rk]

This deck is ingenious.  I love these decks that are insanely weird, but amazingly effective.  It's hard because the focus is on one minion, so a horrible draw could really screw you up.  But considering the deck size and the 4 copies of Bill, it seems like it will work great.

Morgul Skirmisher COULD be great, but it's probably not worth the slots.

This is why this Shadow Side has to be paired with a fellowship that can cycle and draw a lot of cards which isn't hard to build in FOTR Block.

If anyone wants to post a full version of their own Ferny Frost Deck, go ahead. Mine is far from being perfect and I'd rather to see a complete deck (if you have enough time) than a few comments.

[Cw0rk]

I just played vs Bill Ferny and I was surprised by the effect Secret Sentinels had at site 9.



Sorry but I had to post it, it was just funny.

EDIT: By the way, the game crashed.

[Marcoliboar]

ehehe

1 000 000

[MuadDib85]

Yes. Summerz is a jerk. I would advise everyone not to waste your time playing against him.

[Smeagollum]

I like the deck. But not sure if you need the goblin runners. I'rather have some uruks and imo there need to be at least one tower assasin in it as well. Ans also maybe one saruman's power to dis a There and back again, A promise and or O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!

[Cw0rk]

I like the deck. But not sure if you need the goblin runners. I'rather have some uruks and imo there need to be at least one tower assasin in it as well. Ans also maybe one saruman's power to dis a There and back again, A promise and or O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!

I encourage you to post a full version of what you would use.

I've find out that with this deck, it's pretty hard to win unless you play vs a beginner.

[Hobbiton Lad]

Why would you not use the Palantir of Orthanc in a deck like this to get rid of your opponent's hand?

[Smeagollum]

Why would you not use the Palantir of Orthanc in a deck like this to get rid of your opponent's hand?

Oh yeah 

[Cw0rk]

Why would you not use the Palantir of Orthanc in a deck like this to get rid of your opponent's hand?

It's an interesting solution. However the number of twilight available might be a problem.

[Smeagollum]

with 10 twilight you play:
Ferny
Uruk hai
Parry (if needed)
Sarumans snows
sarumans frost
So on site 5, 7, 8 and 9 you should try to do the kill. At that moment there should be enough twilight to use palantir. It might even work better if you can discard cards from hand with your fellowship: The White Arrows of Lorien
That might work I think.

[Cw0rk]

with 10 twilight you play:
Ferny
Uruk hai
Parry (if needed)
Sarumans snows
sarumans frost
So on site 5, 7, 8 and 9 you should try to do the kill. At that moment there should be enough twilight to use palantir. It might even work better if you can discard cards from hand with your fellowship: The White Arrows of Lorien
That might work I think.

It doesn't work at site 5 because Ferny gets discarded at underground sites. You also forget the archery fires which necessitate Spies of Saruman at 2 and another exertion.

[Hobbiton Lad]

with 10 twilight you play:
Ferny
Uruk hai
Parry (if needed)
Sarumans snows
sarumans frost
So on site 5, 7, 8 and 9 you should try to do the kill. At that moment there should be enough twilight to use palantir. It might even work better if you can discard cards from hand with your fellowship: The White Arrows of Lorien
That might work I think.

It doesn't work at site 5 because Ferny gets discarded at underground sites. You also forget the archery fires which necessitate Spies of Saruman at 2 and another exertion.

If you don't need to use Parry then you drop an Isengard Shaman and Isengard Warrior instead to negate archery special abilities.

[Hobbiton Lad]

There are two main strategies I employ in my FOTR Block decks if I know I'm facing Ferny/Frost:

1) Run as fast as I can. I refuse to give my opponent time to set up his combo when I know his minions post little threat to me individually.

2) Sam. Sam. Sam. My main FOTR block deck starts Sam -- the bane of Ferny/Frost decks. I usually kill him off around Site 4-5 normally but against this deck I never kill him off. Ever. Not only does your opponent have to set up his combo quickly (because you are obviously double moving every time) but now he has to flawlessly execute it not once, but twice in order to win.

Most players who have advanced past the beginner level employ these (or similar) strategies when facing this deck type, which is why you don't see many Ferny/Frost decks win consistently. It's just to easy to recognize.

[Smeagollum]

with 10 twilight you play:
Ferny
Uruk hai
Parry (if needed)
Sarumans snows
sarumans frost
So on site 5, 7, 8 and 9 you should try to do the kill. At that moment there should be enough twilight to use palantir. It might even work better if you can discard cards from hand with your fellowship: The White Arrows of Lorien
That might work I think.

It doesn't work at site 5 because Ferny gets discarded at underground sites. You also forget the archery fires which necessitate Spies of Saruman at 2 and another exertion.

You're right forgot the underground. Spies of Saruman is only needed if your opponent plays on archery. To me you can go 2 ways take out the parry's, because for that you need to spot an Uruk Hai and you've got just 4 and play more on isengard orcs (you then probably might want to do something with possesion discarding). Or take out the orcs and add more cheap Uruk Hai like Uruk Raider and Uruk Spy and add to that a more expensive Uruk Hai (Uruk Troop) for a minion with a lot of vitality; now you need to spent about 7 twilight on minions to get all those cool things work... A troop is cheaper; you can exert him 3x for al those tricks you want to do.
I would take out the parry I think.

Maybe something like this:

3x Saruman's Frost (1U135)
3x Saruman's Snows (1C138)
4x *Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow (2R75)
2x The Palantir of Orthanc (3R67)
4x Isengard Shaman (3C59)
3x Goblin Man (2C42) or Isengard Forger (3C56)
4x Isengard Smith (3U60)
4x Isengard Warrior (3U61)
4x Isengard Worker (3C62)
1x Orc Commander (3R64)
2x Saruman's Power (1U136)
1x Tower Assassin (2R93)

I've expanded it to 35 cards. Not sure if I would use the Goblin man (looking in somebodies hand might be good) or the forger (for an optional extra twilight). Maybe I would take out a smith, a warior and a shaman  to have both the forger and the goblin man in it. Goblin Man will make sure that you know if your opponent has a secret sentinels or something like that in hand.

[Cw0rk]

Goblin Man is a good idea. However, Parry is a key card. I'm not sure that your Isengard Smith will work, unless you have Saruman, SotE.

If you have Goblin Man, you could remove The Palantir of Orthanc. Look at the opponent's hand... if there is an annoying card, wait before playing the Bill Ferny Bomb and get rid of it using The White Arrows of Lorien. Actually, when I think about it, I'm not even sure that Goblin Man is necessary if you have Sting or Glamdring.

[Smeagollum]

Should work if opponent has no skirmish abilities and with Ferny also out. It will mean that you will certainly win a skirmish. Then discard all the possesions and on the next turn finnish it with about the same trick.
But understand what you mean by parry, but doing all those tricks makes it complicate. But this is just how I would do it.
You could take out the smiths and put in some Uruks (Spy in my opinion) and take something out for 2 parry's (more would be to much imo.

Sting or Glamdring only sees what your opponent has in your fellowship phase. Your opponent cycle's in your turn, so sting or glamdring are just good additions, but no safeguard. White arrows is usefull, because you will empty opponents deck and then you can do the fernybomb on site 9.

[chompers]

There are two main strategies I employ in my FOTR Block decks if I know I'm facing Ferny/Frost:

1) Run as fast as I can. I refuse to give my opponent time to set up his combo when I know his minions post little threat to me individually.

2) Sam. Sam. Sam. My main FOTR block deck starts Sam -- the bane of Ferny/Frost decks. I usually kill him off around Site 4-5 normally but against this deck I never kill him off. Ever. Not only does your opponent have to set up his combo quickly (because you are obviously double moving every time) but now he has to flawlessly execute it not once, but twice in order to win.

Most players who have advanced past the beginner level employ these (or similar) strategies when facing this deck type, which is why you don't see many Ferny/Frost decks win consistently. It's just to easy to recognize.

Could you bluff? Pretend you have a Ferny Frost deck by stocking a few cards and playing them early, get your opponent to run - then hit them with the real stuff. I guess Sting and Glamdring once in play really prevent this - but i like the idea of a good bluff in cards.

[MuadDib85]

No Business of Ours could help stop Sting and Glamdring ruining the bluff.

[chompers]

it's an interesting deck - i like that it brings to life some cards that may never normally see play

No Business of Ours is a good call for bluffing

[albatross]

I just thought that Sam would cause big issues to this deck. A Promise, O Elbereth and There and back again as well. I would have to use Ferny twice vs Sam. Adding Helpless and Nazgul would make me include too many different cards. Seems like Saruman's Power is essential. I'll add Saruman as well, if I can assign an Uruk to a Strength -2 Sam, he could die.

I wanna stay at 33 cards max. I'm thinking about using Spies of Saruman instead of the Isengard Orcs.

To counter Secret Sentinels, I'll put Legolas and The White Arrow of Lorien in my fellowship.

I built this deck back in the day.  I brought it to 1 tournament and went 3-2.  In one game I killed Frodo and Sam.  I used Spies of Saruman rather than the Isengard Orcs.  Also Tower Assasin to deal with Dreary.  This was all before the Rule of 4 though, so my Fellowship was based entirely around card drawing. 

[Todd]

This is the version my friends and I played. Contrary to popular opinion, this is a very solid combo deck. We put a lot of playtesting into it, and I think it was the optimal design. It does take quite a bit of practice and skill to play correctly though. The fellowship is basic card-drawing mania with expendable companions.

Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
Gandalf, The Grey Pilgrim x4
Aragorn, Ranger of the North
Boromir, Lord of Gondor
Sam, Proper Poet
Gimli, Dwarf of Erebor
Legolas, Greenleaf
Elrond, Lord of Rivendell x4
Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
Ottar, Man of Laketown
Albert Dreary, Entertainer from Bree
Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
Narya
Gandalf's Staff
Glamdring
Sting
Hobbit Stealth x4
A Wizard Is Never Late x4
His First Serious Check x2
Questions That Need Answering
Sleep, Caradhras

Saruman, Servant Of The Eye x4
Isengard Smith x4
Isengard Warrior x4
Isengard Worker
Tower Assassin x2
Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow x3
A Fell Voice On The Air x3
Saruman's Frost x2
Saruman's Snows x2
Saruman's Power x2
Spies of Saruman
Hollowing of Isengard
Trapped And Alone
No Business Of Ours
The Palantir Of Orthanc
Isengard Axe

The Prancing Pony
Midgewater Marshes
House Of Elrond
Pass Of Caradhras
The Bridge Of Khazad-Dum
Galadriel's Glade
Anduin Confluence
Gates Of Argonath
Slopes Of Amon Hen

It has an answer for everything. Yes, Sam was the main thing we had to worry about, but it was not too hard to pull the combo off twice, if necessary. However it rarely was, as Sam was almost always a throw away companion. I can't believe the number of times people would sacrifice Sam at site three, just because they didn't want him. In fact, we often considered using The Green Dragon just to get people to pull Sam early. The last thing we wanted to see was Sam come out late. If Sam came out after site six, that was usually game over. There generally wouldn't be enough time to pull it off twice at that point. But it really wasn't necessary. We just didn't lose to Sam much. Instead we actually tended to bid two, or even three, but chose to go second, just to make sure The Green Dragon didn't get played.

Almost every time I'd beat someone with this deck, they'd think I just got lucky and would make some comment about how some card in their deck would break the combo. They never realized how well planned out this deck was. It really does have an answer for everything (everything you're likely to face in competition anyway). The biggest disadvantage this deck has is it often has to be played very smartly. It's easy to screw up the combo by exerting the wrong minion. You have to make smart decisions about what you need to hold onto. You have to be very familiar with every option the deck has and what to do in every situation. For example, I played this deck in the Fellowship Block Day 1 qualifier for the 2004 World Championships. I went 3-2, but both loses were because I made a mistake. I went into the last round at 3-1 and would have finished in the top four if I had won. It came down to site 9 and I had most of the combo together. I spent several minutes trying to figure out how to make it work, but I couldn't see it. I conceded, my opponent and I continued to chat about it, and about three minutes after I conceded I figured out how I could have won. But I was not a great player and I would sometimes make mistakes like that. I failed though, not the deck. That's what I get for playing a complicated deck that I hadn't really practiced with in about two years.

Most of the credit for the build goes to my two friends and teammates, who were both better players than I was. Jeff Jacobs was the one of us that initially worked at perfecting the Ferny-Frost concept. He kept working at it when we thought it was just a gimmicky deck. Peter Leiher really tightened the deck up and made it more consistent. He was also the best player (by far) of our group. He finished in 12th place at the 2002 World Championships with this deck, which he played all three days. So clearly he was winning against top decks and top players, who were surely aware of what he was up to, yet they still weren't able to stop it. So it certainly is a viable deck. It just requires a lot of skill to play consistently well.

[ununtrium]

Now this is what I call a perfect post to reboot an old topic. I will test you deck right away. Many thanks indeed, because since reading the initial posts, I was always racking my brains how to build a consistent deck indead of a bluff deck. Well done, sir! Have a

[Todd]

Thanks! No problem. Have fun with it. If you have any questions, ask here and I'll try to remember the answer. It has been a long time since I've thought about this deck.

[ramolnar]

This is the best build I've seen of this deck. Isengard Smith and Isengard Warrior are huge helps, making this a lot better than the version during Mines of Moria. I hadn't thought of A Fell Voice on the Air, which makes it a lot easier to play the weather conditions.

I'm wondering why you play 33 cards, particularly when a couple are very marginal - Isengard Axe, in particular. Why Isengard Worker over Isengard Shaman? Also, why only one Palantir? That's the easiest way to kill one of the key counters - Secret Sentinels.

What about the tough matchups - Promise Hobbits and Horn of Boromir? You can get everything to work against A Promise, but the timing is rough. I'm guessing - against Horn you have to Palantir away Secret Sentinels?
The problem for me has been self-destruction. You can beat a good Gandalf deck that uses Albert Dreary, but if your two Tower Assassins are on the bottom they'll make 4 double moves easily. You can beat Horn, but only through Palantir or Anduin Confluence. Lots of tournaments back then only rewarded the "winner", and a deck that self-destructs once out of 6 games would knock you out. In a format where 6-2 gets through, or 4-1, it looks a lot better.

[Todd]

I'll admit that there are a couple of cards, like the Axe that I can't remember exactly why we had them in there. I do remember discussing the Axe a lot, and remember the consensus was to keep it, but I probably don't remember all the reasons for doing so. I believe the main reason for the Axe was the extra twilight. Choke was very common in that environment and against a good choke deck, we would often find ourselves one twilight short. I think the Axe and the Hollowing of Isengard were there primarily to deal with choke.

As to why 33, card count wasn't a big concern. The Fellowship cycled so well that we could easily deck-out if we weren't careful. But in most cases we didn't care. We really thought of this shadow side as a toolbox. i.e. everything we might need was in there, it was just a matter of identifying what we would need and then going to get it. Sometimes things would come together for a site 4 win, but typically we wouldn't be ready until site 6 (can't do it at site 5, though I won't say that didn't occasionally happen by accident.  :x). We just cycled like crazy until we had all the necessary shadow cards in hand. It typically would be an all in-hand combo.

Re: Secret Sentinels: Palantir could be used, but in general if we saw Sentinels, we just waited for Anduin Confluence or Gates of Argonath.

Re: Isengard Worker: He was chosen purely for the extra exertion. Against choke, we'd sometimes be short an exertion. Shaman was in and out of that slot at various times. We just decided we like the Worker a little better.

Re: Horn of Boromir: The horn itself was not at all a concern. Isengard Smith took care of that.

Re: A Promise: Things like A Promise and O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! were taken care of by Saruman's Power.

Most opponents would double move every time, because our shadow side seemed so pathetic. That was normal for us, it was not a concern. It guaranteed us enough twilight to play everything we needed. The deck cycled so well, we would usually deck-out by site 9.

[Cw0rk]

Nice post Todd. Maybe the reason you had Isengard Axe was to make it easier to overwelm Sam using Saruman to assign an orc?

[Todd]

That probably was a justification for it. Which reminds me, I forgot to mention that Saruman, Servant of the Eye was a great way to git rid of Sam.

Also, don't forget that His First Serious Check, Sting and Glamdring can all help out the shadow side as well. Everyone would always forget to use Sting and Glamdring, but they can help out a lot with this deck. It's nice to know if the person is holding a Secret Sentinels, and then HFSC can maybe get rid of it. That was another reason we felt one Palantir was enough.