Preliminary Discussion: Forces of Mordor

[Kralik]

I always thought it was odd that Decipher X/R-listed this card. I know there are some nasty combos in later sets, but did it really hurt all that much in Fellowship block? I wonder if it would be worth taking off the FotR R-list, so that, like Towers, FotR block is free and clear.

Can anyone think of a deck that utterly abuses 4x Forces of Mordor in Fellowship block?

[Thranduil]

Rather than having separate R-lists, etc. for each format. (There too much to keep track of.)  If a card is really bad in multiples, the "card itself" should just be Restricted (1 per deck) for every format.  There's only a handful in the whole game, and Forces of Mordor would be one of them.

This seems like an interesting solution. Make R-lists and X-lists fundamentally separate things by making only 1 R-list and an X-list for each format. If we were going to do this, we'd have to examine all the other R-rated cards in different formats and think whether there was any reason they should be restricted in some formats and not others.

On the base level of just the card, really Forces of Mordor is a card that should probably be restricted.

Thran

[legolas3333]

because with the dark lord's summons and seeking its master the card gave a powerful drawing engine

[Kralik]

L3333, do you have an idea of a sample deck that could be playtested? More options for {Sauron} besides wounding and discard doesn't sound like a bad thing for FotR block...

[ket_the_jet]

I've lost to a few decks that played Forces of Mordor. Of course it was usually at site 9 when I thought I was sailing.
-wtk

[legolas3333]

I don't know any, I just remember that as the reason Decipher banned it way back when, I actually believed it was banned after BohD after all those drawing orcs came out.

[Kralik]

I'm thinking about Fellowship block in particular, not the later sets.

[legolas3333]

Ok, I don't care that much, I was just regurgitating D's reasons, I never play Forces Of Mordor, (except in Fiend decks)

[Witchkingx5]

What do you guys think about semi-restricting cards like in Yugioh? I mean, it firstly sounds weird, but that area really is for those cards that are broken when they show up in multiples, and having 2 in a 60-card Deck doesn't seem to be that scary.

[Not a Zombie]

I think the idea here is simplicity... if we had an X list, R list, and Semi R list, ugg...

[Cw0rk]

L3333, do you have an idea of a sample deck that could be playtested? More options for {Sauron} besides wounding and discard doesn't sound like a bad thing for FotR block...

I agree with this 100%.

[Tbiesty]

I think Forces of Mordor probably should stay Restricted for FOTR, but I don't feel very strongly about it.

However, as far as TS and Movie, I think Restricted is also a good fit.  See here for more details.

[jdizzy001]

Aside from the draw engine mentioned by L3repeating, a single twilight can make the difference between 1 sauron troll, 2 sauron trolls, or even the dark lord himself. i've learned that the hard way.

Dizzy: "what's 1 more twilight!" (adds 1 more twilight.)
Opponent: (plays witch-king, fell beast, sword, and something else terrible which costs 1 twilight.)
Dizzy: (hangs head in shame.)

[TheJord]

...or even the dark lord himself...

Voldemort in LOTR TCG?

[Kralik]

Aside from the draw engine mentioned by L3repeating, a single twilight can make the difference between 1 sauron troll, 2 sauron trolls, or even the dark lord himself. i've learned that the hard way.

Again, I am only considering FotR block. No trolls, Sauron, besiegers, card-drawing trackers, etc. etc. etc.

[Witchkingx5]

No, I think that Sauron Swarm/ Wounding is, as it stands, a viable and good Deck. I play Sauron Wounding by myself, and I once tried to play with 4 Forces of Mordor, but it's just way to good. It's beyond each power, it adds massive amounts of Twilight without any Drawback. I managed to get 2 one Site 2 and got an instant kill, being able to play all of my minions.

Some cards that abuse it in particular:

Morgul Skirmisher (maybe not the best, but still, exhausting a hobbit or two and then finish him off with Hate really can be a big deal.)

Seeking Its Master (can do massive amounts of card drawing which often leads to victory.)

Band of the Eye (make him discard a lot of cards.

Strength Born of Fear (this card sucks, but you get the point.)

Those are the Sauron cards that take advantage of the Twilight-adding-thing, not considering other cultures though (you could easily splash Attea, Keeper of Dol Guldur just to have a 17 strength fierce minion or any other minion, I could even see a combination of Moria and Sauron wounding being fueled by Forces of Mordor).

The main problem is: No matter what, the card is gonna be played in each Sauron Deck at least 3 times and would make massive blowouts, especially considering there is no rule of 4 in the Shadow Phase for making all these draw-cards happen.

[Kralik]

Since Sauron is roaming until site 6, and choke is very, very common in FotR, I can't envision the massive amounts of twilights you are suggesting, even with forces. In many FotR games I'm lucky if I can get 2-3 Sauron minions out before site 5-6. This is including the trackers that help with roaming costs. If I happen to have 2x Forces of Mordor in my hand, that's 4-6 twilight? And if I save up for a bomb--well, that's something you can do with any shadow and it's just part of a strategy. Change of Plans.

[Kralik]

I made a "***Playtesting Rules***" table on GCCG for anyone who wants to try Forces of Mordor unrestricted in FotR block.