V1: Alive and Unspoiled

[Tbiesty]

Since this is from fellowship block, it should only involve mechanics available in fellowship block.

The idea behind this card is that Saruman told the Uruk-hai not to harm the hobbits. He wanted them "alive and unspoiled". So combine that with an poorly supported fellowship Uruk-hai mechanic and here you go.


Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert an minion.
Plays on a Hobbit.
Response: If bearer is about to take a wound in a
skirmish involving an Uruk-hai, prevent that wound to
make the Free Peoples player discard the top card from
his or her draw deck.

[V-R4NG3R]

  Alive and Unspoiled  
Condition
Machine To play, exert an   minion.
plays to your support area.
Each time an urukhai wins a skirmish place a token on this card.
Regroup exert an   minion and spot X tokens on this card to make the free people player discard the top X cards of his or her drawdeck (max 5). Discard this condition.

[macheteman]

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. Plays to your support area.
Maneuver: Exert an Uruk-hai, to take a
search card from your discard pile into hand.
Response: If your search card is about
to be discarded from a companion, discard
this condition to prevent that.
"'Bring them to me.... Kill the others....'"

before getting into my reasoning for my card, i'd just like to caution designers with regard to the deck screw theme. first of all, yes, of course   has deck screw. but this particular card, alive and unspoilt is quite different, it allows a revealing of X cards in hand, and then discarding 1 of them. its more of a tactical card, rather than a strategy. its purpose was never to obliterate an opponents deck. second, i'm pretty cautious when it comes to deck screw cards. i'm sure we all agree that they are one of the classic examples of NPE, and, in my opinion, adding MORE options for that beyond the already plentiful deck screw strategies is not a very good idea.

that said, in my version, i tried to give it a decent amount of playability while not letting its power run out of hand. its basic search card theme i believe fits very well with the title and lore. it protects search cards, but doesn't allow for easy search condition recursion because it's ability is a maneuver action. additionally, its number of uses is limited by the vitality of uruks in play.

it does have some cross-cultural ability, but if you want to try to do that, the card loses power. first of all, only has search conditions that play on comps, second, if you want to hybridize and use it with, lets say , you won't have as many uruks to exert as they will have to share the twilight pool with the other culture.

[jcb213]

Having cards discarded from the top of your deck is one of the biggest NPEs in LOTR.  Please, please, please don't make new cards that discard cards!

[leokula]

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. Plays to your support area.
Maneuver: Exert an Uruk-hai, to take a
search card from your discard pile into hand.
Response: If your search card is about
to be discarded from a companion, discard
this condition to prevent that.
"'Bring them to me.... Kill the others....'"

I like this card, but I think it would be a little more balanced if it had only one of these two abilities. Having the recursion PLUS being able to avoid a Seclusion is too much IMHO.

[FM]

I don't get it. THe whole idea of the card is to capture Hobbits and take them WITH their stuff to Saruman, why would the card mess with discarding cards? If anything, it's the OPPOSITE of the idea. No. I think this card should deal with possessions (it doesn't have to be so narrow as to ONLY deal with the culture, though), REWARDING Uruk-hais for characters BEARING possessions (meaning, they still have them) in some way. Sure, the effect can be discarding cards from the top, whatever, but no PLAINLY doing that.

[FM]

It actually doesn't. They were supposed to GET the Hobbits, not let them go/avoid them.

[Tbiesty]

Ok, so something that involves the Uruk-hai trying to capture the Hobbits and kill the others, but also something the Hobbits from Towers block would be later able to avoid or escape from:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert Saruman or an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Each time a Hobbit (except the Ring-bearer) loses a skirmish involving
an Uruk-hai, you may may discard that Uruk-hai and remove to stack
that Hobbit here.
Skirmish: Make an Uruk-hai damage +1
for each Hobbit stacked here. Discard this condition.

[FM]

You're building a card that outright "kills" companions? No questions asked? Ouch!

[Kralik]

Taking out a companion via simply winning a skirmish is a bit much, don't you think?

[TheHobbit13]

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert Saruman or an Uruk-hai.
Response:
If a Hobbit is about to exert you may spot an  Minion to prevent that.

[ket_the_jet]

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition
Search. To play, exert an Saruman twice. Plays to your support area.
Shadow conditions played on companions cannot be discarded.

It works better with the trackers in Towers Block, but can also be nice for decks featuring cards like Black Breath, Blade Tip, You Bring Great Evil, or Men conditions, amongst others.

I made the cost specific to exerting Saruman twice so that you wouldn't just splash an Uruk Savage or something like that in your Blade Tip decks. It probably is best in Towers Standard (Saruman, Black Traitor is pretty splash-able) but could still be pretty fun in some News of Mordor deck or something.
-wtk

[Tbiesty]

You're building a card that outright "kills" companions? No questions asked? Ouch!

Ok, perhaps that one would be over the top.  Ah, the brainstorming process...

Still trying to figure out if there could be a way to have it "don't hurt hobbits but do something useful",
so it fits the feel for the card name.

Involving the search keyword, Saruman, and protection for borne conditions, all sound like very good ideas.

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert Saruman or 2 Uruk-hai.
Plays on a Hobbit companion.
Bearer cannot take wounds while skirmishing an Uruk-hai.
Response: If a Shadow condition borne by a companion is about to be
discarded by an opponent, discard a search card to prevent that.

[Hobbiton Lad]

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. To play, spot Saruman or exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Each time a stealth event is played, spot Saruman or an Uruk-hai to exert a companion for each Hobbit in the fellowship.
Skirmish: Spot two Hobbit companions and exert an Uruk-hai to discard a possession. Discard this condition.

My primary reasoning behind this card is to punish the Free People's player for putting Hobbits in harm's away against Uruk-hai. One of the most used (and most annoying) strategies in FOTR block is to use Hobbit Stealth or Hobbit Intuition as a "get out of jail free" cards against big minions. Since the intent of this card is to specifically chase down the Hobbits, the Free People's Player should face consequences for using such tactics against Uruk-hai. Also wanted to punish the Free People's Player for the "Suicide Sam" tactic while this card is in play, as spotting 2 Hobbit companions will allow the Shadow player to discard important possessions like Sting or Thror's Map.

[Gerontius]

-Alive and Unspoiled
Condition
Search.
Plays to your support area.
Assignment: Discard this condition and spot a companion with strength 5 or less (except the Ringbearer) to assign an Uruk-hai to that companion. Until the regroup phase, each time that companion is about to be killed, place him or her and all free peoples cards borne by him or her under the free peoples player's draw deck.

Here's the best I could come up with quickly. The idea is to take the hobbits "alive and unspoiled" and put them where the freeps player could still possibly get them back. <5 strength means most major characters who aren't hobbits are safe. It's too wordy though.

[macheteman]

i really think that this card is being over thought.

lets try to make something people would add to their decks.

[FM]

How about...:

Alive and Unspoiled
Event
Response: If a companion loses a skirmish to an Uruk-hai, prevent all wounds to that companion and discard a possession or artifact he or she bears.

The idea is simple enough, it shows Saruman ordering the Hobbits alive because he wants something one of them have, and teh uruks taking it to them. Sure, the card would be TOO narrow if it ONLY dealt with Hobbits, which is why I worded it this way, so the order still applies even if they get a different person. They beat them senseless, DON'T kill them and take their stuff. Simple. Not to mention, it has synergy with Saruman's Power (I know the original is a condition, but we are not bound by that part of the card, as far as I know), and, if you DO want to play conditions of your own, has synergy with Saruman's Ambition in the deck (both for the bonus and for the cost-reducing ability). Last, it also adresses a problem I personally have with the game: lack of interaction, provided basically by response actions that are simply nowhere to be found, they are severely underused.

[macheteman]

i actually think it would make it BETTER if it was a condition.

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition • Support Area
To play exert an Uruk-hai.
Response: If a companion loses a skirmish to an Uruk-hai,
prevent all wounds to that companion to discard a
possession or artifact he or she bears.

that way, it stays as a threat. so the free peoples won't want their possessioned comps losing skirmishes.

not to mention there is some good flavor there. the freeps can't take a frodo with sting and ATAR assign to skirmish an uruk and just absorb all the wounds as burdens. if they do, sting will hit the discard pile.

i know it isn't common, but frodo with sting and atar and a couple bounder in play you can survive a balrog, cave troll, and most importantly: Uruk Vanguard, to save other comps from dying. with this card in play, there is a serious risk in assigning frodo to absorb wounds.

[FM]

But then the card becomes SO powerful (as in, no drawback whatsoever) that EVERY deck will play it. Even if we make it unique, EVERY deck will simply pack 1, if not more. By making it an event, we still give them a great tool, but at a great cost, thus balancing it in a sense that not all decks will want it (I, for one, wouldn't play it unless I was going to a huge tournament and the meta was really favorable, as to avoid risking clogging my hand).

[macheteman]

but conversely, thats my point. if it was an event that said: if your uruk-hai wins a skirmish, discard a possession born by the character it was skirmishing, ok, fine. but as it stands, the planets would have to align for your version to be useful.

1. its an event, so you have to have it in hand.
2. an uruk has to win a skirmish, not SO hard, but if you are actually playing a decent opponent, there is no guarantee that you will win a skirmish during the turn you draw the card. thus, we have the hand clog problem you mentioned.
3. now that we have won the skirmish, we actually have to WANT to not assign wounds during said skirmish. with most uruks being damage +1, and the trackers who DON'T have d+1 actually like the possessions on the comps, there is no sure bet that you'll want to dis a possession instead of dishing out the wounds.
4. There actually has to be a possession or artifact on said companion. which is hit or miss depending on format, and meta.

so all in all i'm betting that version would never see playtime. perhaps it would if it read: discard all free peoples cards born by the character it is skirmishing. which would have more flavor actually, and give it a chance to see some play.

[Tbiesty]

Keep in mind that we are not planning to change the "card type" of any of the V cards, so this one would remain a condition.

Tip:  If you want a condition to act more like an event, you can add "Discard this condition." to the end of its action.

[Elessar's Socks]

On the subject of flavor, I think the Hobbit-avoiding idea can work. The Uruk-hai are intent on killing the rest of the fellowship first, and it fits the lore: "'Bring them to me.... Kill the others....'" Conversely, text that discards possessions would contradict the "unspoiled" part.

[Tbiesty]

On the subject of flavor, I think the Hobbit-avoiding idea can work. The Uruk-hai are intent on killing the rest of the fellowship first, and it fits the lore: "'Bring them to me.... Kill the others....'" Conversely, text that discards possessions would contradict the "unspoiled" part.

I agree.   Does someone have a variation that you would prefer to this:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. To play, exert Saruman or an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish Hobbit companions.
Discard this condition at the end of the turn.

[Jerba]

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition
Search. To play, exert an Saruman twice. Plays to your support area.
Shadow conditions played on companions cannot be discarded.

It works better with the trackers in Towers Block, but can also be nice for decks featuring cards like Black Breath, Blade Tip, You Bring Great Evil, or Men conditions, amongst others.

I made the cost specific to exerting Saruman twice so that you wouldn't just splash an Uruk Savage or something like that in your Blade Tip decks. It probably is best in Towers Standard (Saruman, Black Traitor is pretty splash-able) but could still be pretty fun in some News of Mordor deck or something.
-wtk

Ket, I like this one a lot. Trackers and Isengard men would greatly benefit from this card. However, I think that without cultural enforcement it gets too powerful. Using this in conjunction with Wraith conditions would get out of control imo. Even the splash Saruman isn't enough to keep it in line, imo. Isengard conditions aren't over the top when you protect them from being discarded but Wraith conditions are varied and strong.

[Tbiesty]

Trackers and Isengard men would greatly benefit from this card.

Keep in mind that those are Towers block cards.   I agree that something like this would be great for Virtual Set #2, which will be "virtualizing" Towers block cards.

[FM]

On the subject of flavor, I think the Hobbit-avoiding idea can work. The Uruk-hai are intent on killing the rest of the fellowship first, and it fits the lore: "'Bring them to me.... Kill the others....'" Conversely, text that discards possessions would contradict the "unspoiled" part.

I agree.   Does someone have a variation that you would prefer to this:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert Saruman or an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish Hobbit companions.
Discard this condition at the end of the turn.

Quite frankly, I can't see a lot of uses for this before Towers, where we have Vanguard, but I have to admit it still has SOME use, which is cool, I like cards that you only "get" later their true purpose.

[Hobbiton Lad]

Another attempt:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition
Search.
To play, spot Saruman or exert an Uruk-hai. Plays to your support area.
While you can spot two Hobbit companions, Uruk-hai take no more than 1 wound during each skirmish phase.
Response: If an Uruk-hai is assigned to a skirmish with a Hobbit companion, discard this condition to replace that companion with a companion of another race.

[Thranduil]

I'm going to post a fairly crazy card first

So this is a world-changing card—a card that you put down and it changes the way a turn plays out. I tinkered with versions like "Bearer must be a companion. Bearer cannot take wounds. Assignment: Assign an minion to bearer" and a condition with "You choose the order of skirmishes". But I think this version represents well the title and the feeling that you're just there to loot and gather information, not to kill anyone. (Of course that comes against the "kill the others!" line, but there you go).

Alive and Unspoiled (V)
Condition • Support Area
Search.
To play, exert an minion.
Each time a companion is about to take any number of wounds in a skirmish, prevent those wounds and draw that many cards.
Discard this condition at the start of the regroup phase.


Can anyone list any strategies in FotR and Movie (and, to a lesser extent, Extended) that need some help/some work? Let's try and focus on making our card fit both the flavour and that strategy.

Thran

[ket_the_jet]

Why not something similar to The Board Is Set?

Alive and Unspoiled
Response: If an event is played, exert an minion to make that opponent exert a companion or cancel that event.

That might be fun...might not be as helpful as Wariness for Hobbit Stealth, but it can still be a nice way to avoid Deep in Thought or Servant of the Secret Fire or something along those lines.
-wtk

[Kralik]

Why not something similar to The Board Is Set?

Alive and Unspoiled
Response: If an event is played, exert an minion to make that opponent exert a companion or cancel that event.

That might be fun...might not be as helpful as Wariness for Hobbit Stealth, but it can still be a nice way to avoid Deep in Thought or Servant of the Secret Fire or something along those lines.
-wtk

This effectively shuts down events in general, which doesn't appear to be a good think. Plus, since it's not unique...

*After three exerts* "FINE, I'll cancel my strength pump!"

[FM]

You also need three minions to exert, each condition will trigger separately, and resolve separately, so you have to meet conditions to all three of them. It's not broken, but not quite flavorful enough (and kind of overlaps with Wariness).

[Elessar's Socks]

Can anyone list any strategies in FotR and Movie (and, to a lesser extent, Extended) that need some help/some work? Let's try and focus on making our card fit both the flavour and that strategy.

In Expanded, one situation I find discouraging with Uruk-hai is having to boost their strength over and over again while the fellowship cruises along, permanently tanked. You might burn a bunch of resources trying to take down Durin III, but if your minion loses or fails to kill him, it's hard to keep up an attack of that magnitude.

One way of dealing with this is to mess with assignments, as in Tbiesty's version. I think the text as it stands is too narrowly teched against Hobbits for me to run it, though.

I also like Ket's idea of canceling events, which has precedence in as well (e.g. Saruman's Snows, Wariness).

Your card-drawing take really fits the theme (the text took me by surprise), but I guess I'm leaning towards making up for some culture deficiencies--more to do with my mood than the card.

[Tbiesty]

The first thought I had was that Uruk-hai discard (e.g. Uruk-hai Sword, Lurtz's Sword) and simple Uruk Swarm are FOTR/TS strategies that could use a little help from Hobbits canceling skirmishes (FOTR/TS) or bouncing (TS).  The idea is for the Uruk-hai to leave the Hobbits alone until they kill off the big folk.  Here's a varitation of that:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish Hobbit companions.
Response: If a companion is killed, discard this condition
to make the Free Peoples player discard the top 2 cards of
his or her draw deck.

[Hobbiton Lad]

The first thought I had was that Uruk-hai discard (e.g. Uruk-hai Sword, Lurtz's Sword) and simple Uruk Swarm are FOTR/TS strategies that could use a little help from Hobbits canceling skirmishes (FOTR/TS) or bouncing (TS).  The idea is for the Uruk-hai to leave the Hobbits alone until they kill off the big folk.  Here's a varitation of that:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish Hobbit companions.
Response: If a companion is killed, discard this condition
to make the Free Peoples player discard the top 2 cards of
his or her draw deck.

I really like this one.

[ket_the_jet]

Sorry. Meant for mine to be an event.
-wtk

[Kralik]

You also need three minions to exert

Actually, I think you'd only need 3 spare vitality. Lurtz could take a couple, for example.

Tbiesty's idea is intriguing... maybe not powerful enough to actually play it, though. It's a weak Uruk Rager (that is, its use is quite limited). One is rare and the other is common...

[Tbiesty]

Tbiesty's idea is intriguing... maybe not powerful enough to actually play it, though. It's a weak Uruk Rager (that is, its use is quite limited). One is rare and the other is common...

Good point, it needs just a little more zip... double the Uruk Rager feels about right.

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish
Hobbit companions.
Each time a companion is killed, discard this
condition and the Free Peoples player must
discard the top 4 cards of his or her draw deck.

[macheteman]

Dead pile. hobbits should not be in it, other comps should.

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Skirmish: Exert an Uruk-Hai to make it strength +2 for each character in the dead pile.
While you can spot a hobbit companion in the dead pile, all minions lose damage bonuses.


i think this captures the flavor, is usable, and i believe balanced. it addresses ellesar's socks qualm about keeping strength up. but it is dependent on 1 characters in the dead pile, and 2 available vitality. has a nice drawback for killing hobbits.

pretty nice rare i believe. what do ya'll think?

[Not a Zombie]

Lurtz would get huge quick, and the freeps could easily kill sam (which almost every fotr deck packs) to make you lose a very good bonus. Might be fine tho, seeing as the two may balance out. Would need lots of playtesting

[Thranduil]

Hmmm... So some thoughts include repeatable strength pumps (because Uruks are generally low strength) and dead pile and/or mill (discard from top of draw deck). Alive and Unspoiled seems to me more dealing with living companions than dead ones.

Also remember that I think certainly for the 1st virtual set, we should keep the type the same (so no condition-event bleeding). But, I see no reason why we shouldn't use later technology (eg. "Condition • Support Area", or "Event • Phase", or controversially, my notation of "Condition • Companion")

I'm going to post a riff of my earlier ideas:

Alive and Unspoiled (V)
Condition
Search.
To play, exert an minion. (Or exert an Uruk-hai, doesn't matter)
Bearer must be a companion.
Bearer may not take wounds in a skirmish.
You may choose when to resolve skirmishes involving bearer.

Not sure if this card would ever be relevant, whether it messes with both sides for no gain or loss or whether it's actually a really useful assignment trick for Uruks. Could also have a strength reduction attached? Not sure—just more random thoughts.

Thran

[Tbiesty]

Looks like no additional ideas have been suggested for several days.
Could a moderator open a discussion for the next card please?

[Kralik]

Isn't there a plan on what to do before moving on to the next card? Some sort of top three, call to playtesting, etc?

[Tbiesty]

Since there will only be 10 cards in all, my preference is continue opening discussion every few days to brainstorm ideas, like we've been doing. Once we have had discussions for all 10 cards, we pick our favorite of each card. Then the set can be playtested as a whole for a couple months, where we can suggest any final tweaks.

[FM]

Could work. Forums HAVE been dead lately. However, it's as I told on the other discussion, THIS card right here shows that the group is not ready yet to tackle V cards, we can only make "awesome" cards or "crappy/niche" cards. We had serious trouble with this one, specially understanding the concept.

[Kralik]

I think I'm going to try this card in my Fellowship White Arrows / Uruk Discard deck. One burden is easy enough with site 4, and then it's an easy discard for . No minions required once it's down! :hey:

[hyvee_doughboy]

Could work. Forums HAVE been dead lately. However, it's as I told on the other discussion, THIS card right here shows that the group is not ready yet to tackle V cards, we can only make "awesome" cards or "crappy/niche" cards. We had serious trouble with this one, specially understanding the concept.

What's wrong with niche cards?  Look at the cards that the star wars comitte has put together. I would argue that most of the cards are either
A) fixes/counters for abusive, negative play experience cards
B)niche cards

For example, I have 19 star wars decks, and most of the v cards don't fit in ANY of those decks. 

From my experience, the joy of virtual cards is being able to make new decks that never existed before, or enhancing strategies that were fun, but impractical before.  It takes niche cards to do that. 

People seem to have their hopes set too high here.  IMHO, if a v card fits into even 30% of decks, that means it's probably not balance well (how many cards do you know of that you can simply splash in 1/3 of your decks?)
 

[macheteman]

i agree. if a V card is dominating play, i believe we have missed our mark. V cards are great for tapping the unexplored potential of the game. if we completely change the average game experience, i think we've missed the mark.

[FM]

Guess you both raise a valid point. Though the cards are still closer to "crappy" than to "niche" a lot of the time. Or we try to force-niche some strategy that is simply not there, and won't be because of a single card (and if starts being, we did something seriously wrong, then).

[Tbiesty]

What's wrong with niche cards?  Look at the cards that the star wars comitte has put together. I would argue that most of the cards are either
A) fixes/counters for abusive, negative play experience cards
B)niche cards

For example, I have 19 star wars decks, and most of the v cards don't fit in ANY of those decks.  

From my experience, the joy of virtual cards is being able to make new decks that never existed before, or enhancing strategies that were fun, but impractical before.  It takes niche cards to do that.  

People seem to have their hopes set too high here.  IMHO, if a v card fits into even 30% of decks, that means it's probably not balance well (how many cards do you know of that you can simply splash in 1/3 of your decks?)

Totally agree!

I personally think we have some cool niche cards ideas to aid some weak FOTR stategies here.

Here's are two variations that I think would be cool for the Uruk-hai discard strategy.

Option 1:  (This is my personal favorite.  Even trackers could make use of this.)

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Bearer must be a companion.
Response: If bearer is about to take a wound in a
skirmish involving an Uruk-hai, prevent that wound to
make the Free Peoples player discard the top card from
his or her draw deck.

Option 2:

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition  
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish
Hobbit companions.
Each time a companion is killed, discard this
condition and the Free Peoples player must
discard the top 4 cards of his or her draw deck.


Are there any other ideas for this card at this time?  If not, let's keep moving.  I have some ideas for the other cards in this virtual set that I'd like to put out there.

[Ringbearer]

I fully disagree on these cards. Discard off the top is a huge NPE that will scare people off. It should not be inplemented.

[macheteman]

I fully disagree on these cards. Discard off the top is a huge NPE that will scare people off. It should not be inplemented.

i agree, and i stated that in my first post of this thread. discarding is not only very NPE, it as also a very well entrenched strategy that doesn't need V cards boosting it.

[hyvee_doughboy]

I must admit, didn't see much that I liked either. 

Discard decks certainly can be a huge NPE.  I'm not 100% opposed, would probably vote against it if I had a vote as well.
Since this is still the first round of V cards, id like to offer the following feedback
1. It OKAY to decide "lets just skip this", and throwing a card away.  At the risk of sounding like a broken record with my star wars comparisons, in swccg, they tried to make a blow-up-the-death-star-deck helper many sets in a row, but ultimately scrapped it each time due to balance issues.  That's OK!  Better to throw it away than to release it and regret it.

2. It seems that a lot of the discussion on this card has been "that doesn't fit with the theme of the card".  I make this suggestion: in the future, first figure out what we strategies to create and enhance.  THEN once there is a good idea, then find a card that fits the theme.  This makes things sooo much easier because creativity isn't being smashed just because of some quote on the card.  Its far easier to make a v-card and search for a fitting card than it is to pick an arbitrary card and invent new gameplay around it.


Just my 3 cents. 

[Kralik]

Option 2:
Alive and Unspoiled
Condition 
Search. To play, exert an Uruk-hai.
Plays to your support area.
Uruk-hai may not be assigned to skirmish
Hobbit companions.
Each time a companion is killed, discard this
condition and the Free Peoples player must
discard the top 4 cards of his or her draw deck.

Great card.... for the Freeps! My Frodo will walk unscathed to Mount Doom through hoards of Uruk-Hai. Draw deck? Nah, don't need it.

I made a mistake like this when I played a Gollum-Shelob-Sauron bomb at Northern Ithilien versus Frodo-Sam-Smeagol and stupidly targeted Sam with Her Ladyship. Guess who had a party doubling to Dagorlad?

[TheJord]

Discard might mean a call for more Frodo, Courteous Halfling and Old Noakes, Raper of Discard Decks. Under utilised cards given more utility by expanding an underexpanded strategy.

[Ringbearer]

Yes, but Frodo doesnt exsist in fellowship block yet, where this card will be used. And Old Noakes doesnt do anything against discard off the top of the deck.

[Thranduil]

I think it's probably not worth going into milling, especially given people's reactions to it in this thread.

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with leaving this card for the moment, moving onto something else, and coming back to it when we have better ideas, and a clearer idea of the set as a whole.

So I say, let's get on something else. I want to do another shadow card. Maybe we should have a look at Beauty Is Fading?

Thran

[ket_the_jet]

I'm just going to steal menace64's idea in the Chambers.

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition * Support Area
To play, spot an minion.
companions or allies cannot exert. Discard this condition at the end of the turn.

No more Sting in the regroup phase, no more Sam, Proper Poet, no more Merry, Friend to Sam. Potential to be huge for one turn.

Then again, it could mean people would pack four and is that what we want? Probably not.
-wtk

[hyvee_doughboy]

I'm just going to steal menace64's idea in the Chambers.

Alive and Unspoiled
Condition * Support Area
To play, spot an minion.
companions or allies cannot exert. Discard this condition at the end of the turn.

No more Sting in the regroup phase, no more Sam, Proper Poet, no more Merry, Friend to Sam. Potential to be huge for one turn.

Then again, it could mean people would pack four and is that what we want? Probably not.
-wtk

This would also turn off Bounder.   I'm not sure how much I like that.  Cetainly very powerful in earlier , pre-alternate ring bearer blocks.  Cetainly interesting. 

[Hobbiton Lad]

Or it just gets discarded by Albert Dreary during the maneuver phase, which is the problem with any condition.