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September 02, 2022, 08:31:07 AM
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Tunadan

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Help in Doubt and Need
« on: September 02, 2022, 08:31:07 AM »
I've always been fascinated by the card Help in Doubt and Need. However, I've never been able to make it work consistently, especially in Expanded where the exertions required are rather cost-prohibitive for the reward.

However, I came across a combo I'd overlooked until now: Stewards' Legacy. Using it in conjunction with HIDAN and Boromir, BoC, you can pile up exertions on minion in the skirmish phase, fueling Eomer, TMOR and Eowyn, LoI. I added Wise Guide for protection, and Sméagol for fast setup. Aragorn can deal with Ugluk's exerting ability, and Don't Look at Them can neutralize Dark Horseman.

Ring-Bearer: Boromir, Bearer of Council
Ring: The One Ring, The Ring of Doom

Free Peoples (48)
1x Faramir, Captain of Ithilien (start)
1x Eowyn, Lady of Ithilien (start)
4x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Sméagol, Always Helps
1x Aragorn, Thorongil
3x Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark
2x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
1x Aragorn's Bow
1x Blade of Gondor
1x Faramir's Bow
1x Faramir's Sword
1x Brego
1x Eomer's Spear
1x Firefoot
1x Rider's Mount
2x Rohirrim Javelin
1x Eowyn's Sword, Dernhelm's Blade
1x Anduril, Sword That Was Broken
1x Ring of Barahir
1x Scroll of Isildur
4x Something Slimy
1x Don't Look At Them
1x Follow Sméagol
2x Gondor Bowmen
2x Hearts Raised
2x Help in Doubt and Need
1x Houses of Healing
2x Stewards' Legacy
1x Storied Homestead
1x Fortress Never Fallen
1x We Left None Alive
1x Faramir's Company
1x Rohan Worker
1x Rohirrim Doorwarden

Shadow (48):
4x Archer of Harad
1x Ferocious Haradrim
2x Fletcher of Harad
2x Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings
4x Mumak Rider
4x Southron Murderer
3x The Mouth of Sauron, Messenger of Mordor
1x Voice of the Desert, Southern Troop
2x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Ulaire Lemenya, Eternally Threatening
3x Ulaire Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
2x Ulaire Nertea, Dark Horseman
2x Pavise
2x Ships of Great Draught
3x Elevated Fire
1x Ill News is an Ill Guest
2x Precision Targeting
2x Countless Companies
4x Howdah
2x Rapid Reload

The Shadow is Evil Men Archery, but with Nazgul splashed for more fun. Lemenya makes threats to trigger when someone dies, Nelya recurs wounding sites and gives the right ones for Mumak Rider, Enquea capitalizes on overuse of The Great Ring or The Ring of Rings, and Nertea assassinates monoculture ARB's.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 08:48:14 AM by Tunadan »
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 02, 2022, 11:08:39 AM
Reply #1

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2022, 11:08:39 AM »
Ok, so I realized that I made a screwup of the highest order. Boromir RB cannot use HIDAN.
 ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

However, that may be for the best. I now use Boromir, DOMT, who self heals, and it's been a significant upgrade:

Ringbearer: Faramir, Bearer of Quality
Ring: The One Ring, The Ring of Rings

Free peoples: (48)
4x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Smeagol, Always Helps
1x Aragorn, Thorongil
3x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Eowyn, Lady of Ithilien
1x Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark
2x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
1x Aragorn's Bow
1x Armor
1x Blade of Gondor
1x Faramir's Bow
1x Faramir's Sword
1x Brego
1x Eomer's Spear
1x Firefoot
1x Rider's Mount
1x Eowyn's Sword, Dernhelm's Blade
1x Anduril, Sword that was Broken
1x Ring of Barahir
1x Scroll of Isildur
1x Throne of Minas Tirith
4x Something Slimy
1x Don't Look at Them
1x Follow Smeagol
2x Gondor Bowmen
2x Hearts Raised
2x Help in Doubt and Need
1x Noble Leaders
2x Stewards' Legacy
1x Storied Homestead
1x Fortress Never Fallen
1x We Left None Alive
1x Faramir's Company
1x Rohan Worker
1x Rohirrim Doorwarden

Shadow (48):
4x Archer of Harad
2x Fletcher of Harad
2x Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings
4x Mumak Rider
4x Southron Murderer
3x The Mouth of Sauron, Messenger of Mordor
1x Voice of the Desert, Southron Troop
2x Gothmog, Morgul Leader
1x Ulaire Enquea, Duplicitous Lieutenant
2x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Ulaire Lemenya, Eternally Threatening
3x Ulaire Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
2x Pavise
2x Ships of Great Draught
3x Elevated Fire
1x Ill News is an Ill Guest
2x Precision Targeting
2x Countless Companies
4x Howdah
2x Rapid Reload
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 03, 2022, 01:20:04 PM
Reply #2

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2022, 01:20:04 PM »
Played a game with this version, and pulled out a win:
https://play.lotrtcgpc.net/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Tunadan$kzsu3yfk84tzjei1

I've realized I need another form of Enquea protection than Storied Homestead, so I added Pallando to get exerts on Faramir - or Boromir, for that matter. Boromir is increasingly more valuable than even Aragorn in this deck, between Gondor Bowmen giving three wounds instead of four, or HIDAN boosting Eomer doubly by exerting a minion. Plus I added Too Great and Terrible + Toldea, Black Shadow to counter Gandalf, and Traveled Leader to augment Follow Smeagol and Ulaire Nelya.

Current list:

Ring-Bearer: Faramir, Bearer of Quality
Ring: The One Ring, the Ring of Rings

Fellowship: (51)
4x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Smeagol, Always Helps (start)
1x Aragorn, Thorongil
3x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark (start)
1x Eowyn, Lady of Ithilien (start)
2x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
1x Aragorn's Bow
1x Armor
1x Blade of Gondor
1x Faramir's Bow
1x Faramir's Sword
1x Flaming Brand
1x Brego
1x Eomer's Spear
1x Firefoot
1x Eowyn's Sword, Dernhelm's Blade
1x Anduril, Sword that Was Broken
1x Ring of Barahir
1x Scroll of Isildur
1x Throne of Minas Tirith
2x Traveled Leader
4x Something Slimy
1x Don't Look At Them
1x Follow Smeagol
2x Gondor Bowmen
2x Hearts Raised
2x Help in Doubt and Need
2x Noble Leaders
2x Stewards' Legacy
1x Storied Homestead
1x Fortress Never Fallen
1x We Left None Alive
1x Pallando, Far-Travelling One
1x Faramir's Company
1x Rohan Worker
1x Rohirrim Doorwarden

Shadow (51):
4x Archer of Harad
1x Ferocious Haradrim
2x Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings
4x Mumak Rider
4x Southron Murderer
3x The Mouth of Sauron, Messenger of Mordor
1x Voice of the Desert, Southron Troop
2x Gothmog, Morgul Leader
1x Ulaire Enquea, Duplicitous Lieutenant
2x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Ulaire Lemenya, Eternally Threatening
3x Ulaire Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
2x Ulaire Toldea, Black Shadow
2x Pavise
2x Ships of Great Draught
3x Elevated Fire
1x Ill News Is an Ill Guest
2x Precision Targeting
2x Too Great and Terrible
2x Countless Companies
4x Howdah
2x Rapid Reload
« Last Edit: September 03, 2022, 06:27:55 PM by Tunadan »
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 12, 2022, 12:55:29 PM
Reply #3

Shelobplayer

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2022, 12:55:29 PM »
I would use Isildur, Sword-Bearer and Kings' Legacy if I was to build around HIDAN. Kings' Legacy can also heal Barliman, PPP which is an extremely strong effect, like a lowkey Beorning Axe. Elendil's Army is super strong as an individual card, and gets stronger with Stewards' Legacy, I see no reason not to include. The OG Aragorn's Bow in itself doesn't warrant not playing Flame of the West imo, that version of Anduril is just super sick in expanded. A single copy of Erkenbrand's Horn would be a nice addition as well, if for nothing else, it can get rid of opposing Saruman, SoS. A few Deagols could also be nice.

I love the shadow side, just had a chat with an old friend on messenger and it came up how a modified [Men] archer deck could be absolute bonkers in expanded. I'd add [Gollum] stuff to it probably, but it's not entirely necessary, I just love Her Sneak + ESF. Morgul Ambusher can easily be built around for very cost efficient archery total boost. Precision Targeting with Rapid Reload at Anduin Banks is devastating.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2022, 03:30:32 PM by Shelobplayer »

September 12, 2022, 06:48:17 PM
Reply #4

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2022, 06:48:17 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Isildur would definitely help. Also, I'm going to try to make Gandalf a bigger part of the deck, as adding King's Legacy + Barliman seems a good route. Adding FOTW has the added benefit of another vitality point for HIDAN, and perhaps I'll go less wounding and more strength-based.

Thanks for the kind words on the shadow, I'm happier with it than with most shadows. Oddly, large fellowships actually make this one stronger!
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 13, 2022, 11:25:06 AM
Reply #5

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2022, 11:25:06 AM »
Here's the current list I'm playing with. More strength-based, rather than wound-based.

Ring-Bearer: Faramir, Bearer of Quality
Ring: The One Ring, the Ring of Rings

Sites:
Anduin Banks
Cavern Entrance
Doorway to Doom
Neekerbreeker's Bog
Mithlond
The Prancing Pony
Dammed Gate-Stream
Falls of Rauros
Sirannon Ruins

Free Peoples (60):
1x Eowyn, Dernhelm (start)
1x Aldred, Eored Soldier (start)
1x Gondorian Prowler (start)
1x Smeagol, Always Helps (start)
3x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Aragorn, Thorongil
1x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Isildur, Sword-Bearer
1x Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark
3x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Hugin, Emissary From Laketown
1x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
1x Armor
1x Blade of Gondor
1x Faramir's Bow
1x Faramir's Sword
1x Flaming Brand
1x Brego
1x Eomer's Spear
1x Erkenbrand's Horn
1x Firefoot
1x Eowyn's Sword, Dernhelm's Blade
1x Anduril, Flame of the West
1x Narsil, Forged by Telchar
1x Scroll of Isildur
2x A Wizard Is Never Late
2x Deep in Thought
1x Saved From The Fire
2x Traveled Leader
4x Something Slimy
1x Long-Stemmed Pipe
1x Don't Look at Them
1x Follow Smeagol
1x Gladden Homestead
2x Hearts Raised
2x Help in Doubt and Need
1x Kings' Legacy
2x Stewards' Legacy
1x Storied Homestead
1x Pallando, Far-Travelling One
4x Deagol, Fateful Finder
1x Faramir's Company
1x Rohan Worker
1x Rohirrim Doorwarden

Shadow (60):
2x Gollum, Her Sneak
1x Grima, Wormtongue
4x Archer of Harad
1x Ferocious Haradrim
1x Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings
4x Mumak Rider
4x Southron Murderer
3x The Mouth of Sauron, Messenger of Mordor
1x Voice of the Desert, Southron Troop
1x Gothmog, Morgul Leader
2x Southron Leader
3x Morgul Ambusher
2x Ulaire Cantea, Faster Than Winds
1x Ulaire Enquea, Duplicitous Lieutenant
1x Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Ulaire Lemenya, Eternally Threatening
2x Ulaire Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
2x Ulaire Toldea, Black Shadow
2x Pavise
2x Ships of Great Draught
3x Elevated Fire
1x Ill News is an Ill Guest
2x Precision Targeting
2x Too Great and Terrible
3x Evil-Smelling Fens
2x Countless Companies
4x Howdah
2x Rapid Reload

Strategy:

Bid 0, and if you get the choice, go first. You want to play Dammed Gate-Stream, and use it to pull Long-Stemmed Pipe, tossing SFTF into the discard. If you have a Something Slimy, get Follow Smeagol instead. Mulligan for AWINL or Gandalf. You'll want to try to always stay at Dammed Gate-Stream and Prancing Pony, as those aid setup time. Most of the time I will pull Aragorn, Throrongil with Prancing Pony, but if Boromir is more beneficial or you drew Aragorn, pull Boromir. Here's a list of the combos to set up on the Fellowship side:

HIDAN + Isildur, Sword Bearer + Kings' Legacy
One of the most basic combos, allowing +4 strength with net 0 exertions.

HIDAN + TMOR + Stewards' Legacy + DOMT
This makes every exert on Boromir boost Eomer +4 (provided the minion has more than 1 vitality)

Kings' Legacy + Barliaman Butterbur, PPP
Use Kings' Legacy on Barliman when you can. Often it'll let you pull Deep in Though or SFTF when you most need it .

Something Slimy + Long-Stemmed Pipe + SFTF + PPP
Stole this combo from Sgtdraino. It pulls SFTF much faster than hoping to draw it, and increases probability for drawing it.

There's a few other obvious ones, but these are the ones you want to aim to build.

The Shadow strategy is simpler, but just as tricky. Your sole objective is to wound and harass your opponent's freeps to death, or at least to slow them down and cripple them. Here's a basic rundown of the strategy.

Mouth + Pavise + Countless Companies + Mumak Commander, GATS
Use this quick setup to fetch conditions and make GATS more effective

Toldea + TGAT
Try to spam TGAT against Gandalf

Gollum, Her Sneak + ESF + Any Minion
This can essentially pull any minion back whenever you need it, thanks to Deagol.

After that, it's pretty simple. Wormtongue clogs their hand and removes vitality from the table, Morgul Ambusher is two wounds for cheap, Cantea tosses possessions, Nelya recurs your nastiest sites, and Ships blows away Madril.
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 15, 2022, 12:34:29 AM
Reply #6

TelTura

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2022, 12:34:29 AM »
Quote
Ok, so I realized that I made a screwup of the highest order. Boromir RB cannot use HIDAN.

To clarify this, naturally your Ring-bearer is always Ring-bound.  However you could play that Boromir just as a regular companion and he would in fact be unbound if you so desired. 

(I know you moved past that version, but just wanted to point out the rules here.)
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September 18, 2022, 10:45:55 AM
Reply #7

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2022, 10:45:55 AM »
After losing many games (often due to slow setup and bad cycling), I reworked the fellowship considerably, and this is the best performing iteration yet (and also the only one to work consistently).

Ring-Bearer: Faramir, Bearer of Council
Ring: The One Ring, the Ring of Rings

Sites:
Cavern Entrance
Neekerbreeker's Bog
Steward's Tomb
Mithlond
Caras Galadhon
The Prancing Pony
Dammed Gate-Stream
Falls of Rauros
Sirannon Ruins

Fellowship (55):
3x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Radagast, The Brown
1x Smeagol, Always Helps
1x Aragorn, Thorongil
1x Isildur, Sword-Bearer
1x Ranger of Westernesse
1x Gamling, Defender of the Hornburg
1x Eomer, Third Marshal of Riddermark
1x Eowyn, Dernhelm
3x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Hugin, Emissary from Laketown
1x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
1x Faramir's Sword
1x Flaming Brand
1x Brego
1x Eomer's Spear
1x Erkenbrand's Horn
1x Firefoot
1x Eowyn's Sword, Dernhelm's Blade
1x Anduril, Flame of the West
1x Narsil, Blade of the Faithful
1x Scroll of Isildur
2x A Wizard is Never Late
2x Deep in Thought
1x Saved From the Fire
2x Traveled Leader
4x Something Slimy
1x Long-Stemmed Pipe
1x Don't Look at Them
1x Follow Smeagol
1x Gladden Homestead
2x Hearts Raised
1x Help in Doubt and Need
1x Kings' Legacy
1x Stewards' Legacy
1x Storied Homestead
1x Pallando, Far-Travelling One
4x Deagol, Fateful Finder
1x Elendil's Army
1x Faramir's Company
1x Rohirrim Doorwarden

Shadow (55):
1x Gollum, Her Sneak
1x Gollum, Old Villain
1x Shelob, Her Ladyship
1x Dunlending Warrior
2x Grima, Servant of Another Master
2x Grima, Wormtongue
1x Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings
1x The Balrog, Demon of Might
1x Gothmog, Morgul Leader
3x Southron Leader
1x Sauron, The Lord of the Rings
1x Mauhur, Relentless Hunter
1x Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow
3x Morgul Squealer
1x The Witch-king, Morgul King
1x Úlairë Cantëa, Faster Than Winds
2x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Sixth of the Nine Riders
1x Úlairë Lemenya, Eternally Threatening
1x Úlairë Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
2x Úlairë Nertëa, Dark Horseman
1x Úlairë Toldëa, Black Shadow
1x Web
1x Ships of Great Draught
4x Captured by the Ring
3x Led Astray
4x Sudden Strike
4x Saruman's Power
3x Too Great and Terrible
4x Evil-smelling Fens
1x Saruman, Servant of Sauron

Strategy:
Bid 0. If you get the choice, go first. If not, I've found that people who bid often play either The Prancing Pony or Dammed Gate-Stream, so if one of those are played, it's ok. If not, you're probably still fine. Start Gamling, Smeagol, and the Ranger of Westernesse, and, if you go first, play Dammed Gate-Stream as site 1 and The Prancing Pony as site 2. You'll be pulling Aragorn, Thorongil with it, so stay at 2. Now, assuming you go first, use Dammed Gate-Stream to pull Something Slimy, which in turn will pull Steward's Legacy. Then, pull Erkenbrand's Horn with Gamling and use it to play Pallando. Now, all you have to do to stop the likes of Wormtongue or Shotgun Enquea is transfer Pallando to Faramir, exerting him twice and canceling 2 special abilities. Now, if you happened to draw Something Slimy or Stewards' Legacy, use the gate stream to pull Follow Smeagol. After that, mostly you play your deck as you draw it and utilize combos on the freeps side, which I'll list here:

Something Slimy/Long-Stemmed Pipe/Barliman Butterbur, PPP
This combo pulls you a copy of SFTF faster than trying to naturally draw it and clogs less than holding it till you get Gandalf.

Help in Doubt and Need/Isildur, Sword-Bearer/Kings' Legacy/Mithlond
This one is simple. Use HIDAN to pump guys, and the rest of those cards to heal the exertions.

Radagast/Falls of Rauros
Falls of Rauros allows you to play your tenth companion, usually Radagast. He lets you triple to nine if necessary. Often I find I kill him off at 7 or 8 to avoid his cycling benefit.

Erkenbrand's Horn serves as a fetching tool for followers (use carefully), often useful for exhausting Gamling before burning him with SFTF, but also can work offensively against Saruman, SoS.

The Shadow is a tweaked version of a standard Sudden Strike build, which I will let the inventor himself Sgtdraino explain.
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 19, 2022, 12:26:29 PM
Reply #8

Shelobplayer

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2022, 12:26:29 PM »
I think that going for SFTF with this deck probably hurts you more than it benefits. You could just start Faramir, CoI + Gamling, DOTH, bump up AWINL to 4 (that's something you should do even if you keep SFTF imo). A single SFTF + Long-Stemmed Pipe is something I often use in decks that can benefit from SFTF, but by no means rely on it. You can fetch Long-Stemmed Pipe with Something Slimy obviously. Obviously then you'd need more copies of Isildur. Most competitive expanded decks rely on stronger starting fellowships, and 2 vanilla str 6 characters don't qualify, even if Gamling is obviously great. Not saying that it can't work, but you are definitely at a disadvantage.

Playing 3 Wise Guide and 1 Gandalf, Returned is also something I like quite a bit. Wise Guide is great when it is needed, but in many games you never use his ability, and if you can identify that in time, fetching Returned is better (or Leader of the Company or whichever version you prefer).

I'm not sure that Always Helps is the best choice for Smeagol either. I know I used to overvalue it in the past a lot. I'd advise to keep track of how often you use his ability, and then try Poor Creature for cycling in some games. Always Helps is amazing with stuff like Powerful Guide and Unheeded, but with only Don't Look at Them, I'd look at Poor Creature.

I think Hearts Raised can easily be cut.

September 19, 2022, 04:28:24 PM
Reply #9

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2022, 04:28:24 PM »
Perhaps I'll try it w/o SFTF as the primary thing, starting Faramir, COU is a good idea. I don't know what RB to run instead, though. Maybe Boromir, or even Frodo.

If I were to cut Hearts Raised, I'd need different threat removal. Maybe Citadel to Gate would be a good alternative, as Barliman can recur it.

The main problem I foresee now is cycling and not getting cards fast enough.
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

September 19, 2022, 06:02:11 PM
Reply #10

Shelobplayer

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2022, 06:02:11 PM »
Perhaps I'll try it w/o SFTF as the primary thing, starting Faramir, COU is a good idea. I don't know what RB to run instead, though. Maybe Boromir, or even Frodo.

If I were to cut Hearts Raised, I'd need different threat removal. Maybe Citadel to Gate would be a good alternative, as Barliman can recur it.

The main problem I foresee now is cycling and not getting cards fast enough.

I honestly don't think you need threat removal. I'd cut Faramir's Company as well, I don't think it's efficient enough, it just converts one resource to another at a 1:1 ratio (threat to vitality). Citadel to Gate is way better if you are dead set on needing threat removal.

Try Poor Creature for cycling, it's great, I run it in my gondor control deck and works wonders really. Or if you switch RB to Frodo you can run Robin Smallburrow (very underrated card imo), but if you do that Sothron Leader will always be an issue (and to a lesser extent Chief Counselor, but I don't really see people besides myself running it). Leowyn is another great cycler and source of healing too, combined with Weland, it can heal Gandalf too, but that's probably a stretch.

Also having some discard outlet in the shadow side besides Old Villian is nice. I really like Winged Mount in expanded for example, 2-3 copies are reasonable in any build with Dark Horseman and stuff.

I'd keep an eye in games on what I usually pull with Sudden Strike (I may debate who is the inventor of Sudden Strike, but at the very least I'd say I'm a co-inventor haha, we used to play a LOT with Draino and both developed our versions in the process). If you never want some minions (looking at the likes of GATS, Sauron, Gothmog, Dunlanding Warrior and Mauhur), then you should probably cut them. Such a tall deck can definitely see more Nelya for example. I think Sudden Strike works way better in a more focused shadow list that pulls some really hard hitting silver bullets when needed. Like I play it with corsairs, 2 version of nazgul and Ugly Fellow + Ugluk's Sword shadows that all have a clear focus, and Sudden Strike adds specific counters. Stuff I usually pull are: Nelya, Grima, Demon of Might, Southron Leader, shotgun Enquaea, Her Ladysip - OR - something that supplements my core strategy. Sauron is very rarely better than Demon of Might, to a point where I would always play 2nd Balrog befor 1st Sauron. Gothmog without an archery strategy just lets 3 wounds to be spread to Mithlond away on the next move. GATS without Pavise is inefficient and vulnerable. In certain niche cases, sure they are handy, but I think it's better to focus on trying to beat the really tough decks of the format, than roflstomping the less well prepared ones even harder.

Evil-Smelling Fens also gets way better in a more focused list, especially with Her Sneak and Plotting Deceiver.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 06:03:42 PM by Shelobplayer »

September 20, 2022, 05:40:22 AM
Reply #11

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2022, 05:40:22 AM »
I honestly don't think you need threat removal. I'd cut Faramir's Company as well, I don't think it's efficient enough, it just converts one resource to another at a 1:1 ratio (threat to vitality). Citadel to Gate is way better if you are dead set on needing threat removal.
Corruption is a very real threat. I think that having a route to clear threats other than killing someone is a good idea with Shadowfax. I'll probably remove Faramir's Company for something more effective, I know there's better options.

You're right about the shadow side, it does need more focus. Perhaps I'll do an uruk build, playing those with recursion and silver bullets could be killer...
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.

April 28, 2023, 11:06:44 AM
Reply #12

Tunadan

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Re: Help in Doubt and Need
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2023, 11:06:44 AM »
I dusted the cobwebs off this old list, paired it with a new shadow, and uh, it works. So far I've gotten mostly shadow kills, and the ability to grab GATS, Mouth of Sauron, and Shotgun Enquea is extremely potent with Evil Man Archery. I even had room for Elevated Fire for a surprise three wounds.

Ring-bearer: Faramir, Bearer of Quality
Ring: The One Ring, The Ring of Rings

Adventure deck:
Anduin Banks
Cavern Entrance
Neekerbreekers' Bog
Doorway to Doom
Mithlond
The Prancing Pony
Dammed Gate-stream
Mount Doom
Sirannon Ruins

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
3x Gandalf, Wise Guide
1x Smeagol, Poor Creature
1x Aragorn, Thorongil
1x Gondorian Prowler
1x Isildur, Sword-Bearer
1x Aldred, Eored Soldier
1x Gamling, Defender of the Hornburg
1x Éomer, Horsemaster
3x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Hugin, Emissary from Laketown
1x Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas
1x Faramir's Sword
1x Flaming Brand
1x Brego
1x Eomer's Spear
1x Erkenbrand's Horn
1x Firefoot
1x Anduril, Flame of the West
1x Narsil, Forged by Telchar
1x Throne of Minas Tirith
4x A Wizard is Never Late
2x Deep in Thought
1x Saved From the Fire
2x Traveled Leader
4x Something Slimy
1x Long-stemmed Pipe
1x Follow Smeagol
1x Gladden Homestead
1x Help in Doubt and Need
1x Kings' Legacy
1x Noble Leaders
1x Spirit of the White Tree
1x Stewards' Legacy
1x Storied Homestead
1x The Faithful Stone
1x Pallando, Far-travelling One
4x Deagol, Fateful Finder
1x Elendil's Army
1x Rohirrim Doorwarden

Shadow Draw Deck:
1x Gollum, Her Sneak
1x Gollum, Old Villain
1x Grima, Wormtongue
4x Archer of Harad
2x Mumak Commander, Giant Among the Swertings
4x Mumak Rider
4x Southron Murderer
3x The Mouth of Sauron, Messenger of Mordor
2x Gothmog, Morgul Leader
2x Southron Leader
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
1x Úlairë Nelya, Third of the Nine Riders
1x Úlairë Toldëa, Black Shadow
2x Pavise
1x Ships of Great Draught
3x Captured by the Ring
2x Led Astray
2x Sudden Strike
3x Elevated Fire
1x Ill News Is An Ill Guest
2x Too Great and Terrible
3x Evil-smelling Fens
2x Countless Companies
4x Howdah
2x Rapid Reload


Replays:

https://play.lotrtcgpc.net/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Tunadan$c3ms8dgui29uuipu

https://play.lotrtcgpc.net/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Tunadan$aea9dmefie48reue
He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.