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Author Topic: WOTR League why gandalf deck?  (Read 2356 times)

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January 11, 2015, 01:59:59 PM
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met

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WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« on: January 11, 2015, 01:59:59 PM »
I mean the title is too short but, because everyone choose that starting deck the league is so annoying and no other viable way or deck are present?     ??? ???

Fellowship too strong compared to the others and the only shadow capable to add burden in addition to the rest.
So in the end it's all about how many cards we draw that can help gandalf hobbit /nazgul deck.

Why don't we ban that starting deck for future leagues?  It's just not funny and annoying meeting the same decks all the matches.   :up:

January 11, 2015, 03:12:09 PM
Reply #1

Cthulhu

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2015, 03:12:09 PM »
There is a clearly better starter in almost every Sealed's 1st serie, and no one is going to ban anything so get used to it.  For example there isnt any card that could make me pick Theoden starter in TT Sealed, or Aragorn starter in RotK Sealed, as the other option is just better in a 1-on-1 fight.

Also while Gandalf starter is indeed the strongest overall starter this serie, as it has both solid FP and solid shadow, If you pull some strong Rohan or Gondor rare you could choose differently, as some of my opponents have done, plus nazgul are only really good this serie (and their only event is bugged and isnt working), they cant stop crap come next serie if your opponent's FP is any good. If you think nazgul are strong wait until 3rd serie when you face Stragglers - Mouth combo for 1st time and it obliterates you...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 03:37:11 PM by Cthulhu »
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January 12, 2015, 01:05:48 PM
Reply #2

zen89

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 01:05:48 PM »
I agree completely with Cthulhu.

I mean, Gandalf is probably the strongest starter in the first serie, but the Nazgul shadow has very limited stopping power in later series, and Rohan and Gondor are both quite strong as well. A good Rohan deck can pretty much double the entire site path against the Gandalf starter.

January 14, 2015, 12:22:01 PM
Reply #3

bibfortuna25

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 12:22:01 PM »
Gandalf is indeed the strongest starter in WOTR sealed, with Aragorn a close second. It really depends on what your pack pulls are, to be honest. Last WOTR sealed, I pulled 3 trolls in my packs, so Aragorn was the obvious choice.

I wouldn't touch the Rohan starter with a 40-foot pole. The Uruks can be intimidating, sure, but the Rohan companions are just so weak. Both of the pumps that you get in the starter (Rally Cry and War Now Calls Us) are either highly conditional, or extremely risky. This means that beating minions in skirmishes becomes extremely difficult. Sure, you can pump with your Riddermark Soldier, but he's only useful for one site, then he's minion-bait. And against Nazgul with Drawn to Its Power, the burdens will add up very quickly. And conveniently, that prevents you from using Rally Cry.

The Legolas starter can be good if you get decent draws, but frankly, you'll get better [Men] cards in the Mouth and Boromir starters later on in the league. And you won't get very many good Elf or Dwarf cards in those later starters either.
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February 09, 2015, 12:07:40 AM
Reply #4

Cthulhu

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 12:07:40 AM »
If you think nazgul are strong wait until 3rd serie when you face Stragglers - Mouth combo for 1st time and it obliterates you...

16 of my 17 wins last two series were shadow kills, of those only Valtor reached region 3 (my 3 losses were to the same shadow). I used all starter cards for that except for 2 commons and an uncommon.

I say we ban the Evil Men starters :mrgreen:
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

February 09, 2015, 03:33:00 AM
Reply #5

dmaz

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 03:33:00 AM »
Despite the residuary assertions and comments, the major problem with WOTR sealed lies more with community, and Decipher's effort in deck structuring coming in at a close second. ;)

Let's look at the community's overall interest in WOTR sealed:
It's currently weighing in at less than 20 active players (players who made an effort to play the full compliment of games provided).
Compare that to the FOTR sealed with between 50 to 60 active players and far more second level players who got maybe a dozen games in.

Although there is some level of meta in FOTR - Movie Sealed, because the general interest is so much higher, the variety of booster pulls and decks attempted has a chance to broaden.

You can tell something is up when all of the vast majority of the good sealed competitors don't really bother getting involved at all.

You don't see Raelag, UPC, Shadyspawn, TinkerT, Legion. This is probably due to the low return on actual good competition.

WOTR sealed is already bad enough with the way Decipher threw the starter decks together (around SoG general care and effort put into developing LOTR TCG content started a clear decline). By serie 3, the only amount of skill you need to have as a player is to decide which order to kill companions in using stragglers. Whatever your actual ability as a player is doesn't really matter when the game is just a crap-shoot to see if you can run faster than your opponent can draw the right cards.

Thus, the meta for WOTR sealed has degraded to a somewhat of a stagnant pool, where only players who embrace the big-fish in a small pond mentality take it seriously. In actuality the league is pretty much a crock, and the real sharks are where the real competition is: the major sealed events. In the end, the reason that this league feels boring and uncreative, is because it IS, haha; leaving real competitors to not even bother with it, as it's not actually a measure of what most would consider skill in this game.

It didn't help the matter that this particular one ran at the same time as the FOTR sealed XD

Regarding the decks themselves, there is no clearly better Serie 1 starter deck in almost any sealed with the possible exception of Towers, when looked at from a strict starter-only standpoint. WOTR sealed has a point within serie 1 and 2 where you can get away with playing other strategies slightly based on your booster pulls, and enjoying a competitive game. By serie 3 however, Decipher really dropped the ball, and the league is a complete joke, as Cthulhu already pointed out.

I'd say, if you're like me and just want to enjoy the fun competition, but don't care about points at the end which don't actually measure much, give it another try and just play serie 1 and 2.  There WILL still be a lot of people playing Gandalf starter, BUT depending on your pulls you might be able to make a really strong rohan deck, or at the very least a competitive one. Gondor isn't even half bad sometimes. By Serie 3, feel free to join in, but if you want to be able to compete, make sure you pick Evil Men, and keep some ice handy for your nose, as you might bruise it while rolling your face around on the keyboard with everyone else ;)

February 09, 2015, 05:54:45 AM
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Cthulhu

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2015, 05:54:45 AM »
Quote
You don't see Raelag, UPC, Shadyspawn, TinkerT, Legion. This is probably due to the low return on actual good competition.

I can see them all except Shady, and I played TinkerT in 3rd serie. I can also see they all started badly with a few losses before turning to the other league where they're doing well. It's a thing you do when you don't have time for 2-3 leagues at the same time and are doing better in one of them than in the other.

Also I remember Raelag complaining that you can't play nazgul without Riders in Black, which is not true too.



Quote
Regarding the decks themselves, there is no clearly better Serie 1 starter deck in almost any sealed with the possible exception of Towers, when looked at from a strict starter-only standpoint.


Well RotK sealed is not that far on the horizon, so I seriously hope some people agree with this giving me some easy wins.  :)

Yes, looking form a strict starter-only standpoint ignore the fact that an Elite Rider from Eomer starter (you can start 2 of them) with a horse and spear beats EVERY SINGLE  minion in Aragorn starter except one and conveniently you don't have a single skirmish southron pump in Aragorn starter but you have a tons of silly gondor conditions that do nothing except helping sauron swarm your Frodo a site earlier if you play them, and still go for it -  I won't mind! :mrgreen:
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:01:26 AM by Cthulhu »
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

February 09, 2015, 05:59:03 AM
Reply #7

dmaz

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2015, 05:59:03 AM »
Yes, looking form a strict starter-only standpoint ignore the fact that an Elite Rider (you can start 2 of them) with a horse and spear beats EVERY SINGLE  minion in Aragorn starter except one and conveniently you don't have any skirmish pumps in the southron starter, and still go for it -  I won't mind! :mrgreen:

Ah yeah! Very good point :) I did forget about the elite riders and the fact that they give you so much possession support as well! Comparing that to the serie 1 rohan starter for Towers it's night and day!

I still think you might have a decent deck for yourself with Aragorn depending on your pulls...plus having City of Men as a pump which might also take out a monster minion (like a troll!) makes it a viable option if you want to run...that and the decent threat control.

But like you pointed out...from a standpoint of clearing the board rohan has a huge advantage.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:06:13 AM by dmaz »

February 09, 2015, 06:10:43 AM
Reply #8

met

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2015, 06:10:43 AM »
guys, i don't think is a matter of choice here. Like GLR in movie, there are cards too powerful which deserve a league without them. i think the same goes for this particular league and its starting deck.  Are felling you are not annoying of playing wotr sealed league? because i am and i have played it twice till now ??? ??? :roll:

February 09, 2015, 08:46:11 AM
Reply #9

dmaz

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2015, 08:46:11 AM »
guys, i don't think is a matter of choice here. Like GLR in movie, there are cards too powerful which deserve a league without them. i think the same goes for this particular league and its starting deck.  Are felling you are not annoying of playing wotr sealed league? because i am and i have played it twice till now ??? ??? :roll:


I understand your frustration...like I said this is more a problem with the community and the meta than the actual league itself.

If the competition in WOTR sealed wasn't so stale and more people were interested, you'd see more of a variety. But since the card pool is hard to work with from the begining, a lot of people just drop it, and the people you left to play are mostly the ones who are more interested in purporting a standing amidst shallow victories.

It's possible that narrowing G for Grand and Stragglers down to 1 per deck would open up the playing field a bit, but I don't know it would solve the underlying issue for the overall meta in which the community approaches an unpopular sealed event like this one...similar to My Cards leagues it's just a big fish/small pond scenario. Even if the change went through you might still feel a little "annoyed" as you mentioned, because you aren't actually competing in an open playing field, where the encounters are interesting as opposed to so tediously sophomoric.

While it might be worth a try, the overal interest and importance of WOTR sealed in the community (which is already miniscule), may not be enough to get something like that going... :/ TONS of people like Movie format, which is why the "No GLR" sub-format was still somewhat popular (though still not taken as seriously as actual Movie format).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 08:49:37 AM by dmaz »

February 09, 2015, 10:36:22 AM
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Cthulhu

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 10:36:22 AM »
guys, i don't think is a matter of choice here. Like GLR in movie, there are cards too powerful which deserve a league without them. i think the same goes for this particular league and its starting deck.  Are felling you are not annoying of playing wotr sealed league? because i am and i have played it twice till now ??? ??? :roll:


No I'm not annoyed and I have played it 4 times with 4 different shadows now. Also if you're annoyed so much by it why are you still joining it, are you some kind of masochist?  :P  For example I dont really like that made up Enhanced TS format and dont bother playing it instead of complaining in forums how stupid I think it is.

Decipher couldnt really make all starters equally ballanced, at least not in the time they could afford spending for testing them. There is always a starter to beat in every sealed, and you either have to play it yourself or figure a way to beat it.

Regarding LR - you sure wasnt around for most of no-LR Movie leagues. If you play some of those you might be surprised and not in a good way. Abaddon who was heavily against the card discovered that without her no one plays the goofy decks she destroys, but everyone plays the same heavy hitters - besiegers/corsairs/gollum, except even stronger because  she was printed to keep them in check. So instead of diversity her absence led to even more narrow meta.
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February 10, 2015, 02:00:35 AM
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BigRedMF

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 02:00:35 AM »
I've only played WotR sealed twice, and never played with any post-Movie cards otherwise. I find that there is a lot of focus on what site I am on and what order to skirmish. One misstep can be very disastrous in this sealed, and there are a LOT of different modifiers in play all the time to pay attention to. It is quite an effort to keep them all in mind when you plan out your skirmishes.

That being said, it feels absolutely nothing like the game I fell in love with starting with Fellowship block.

February 10, 2015, 03:29:03 AM
Reply #12

dmaz

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2015, 03:29:03 AM »
That being said, it feels absolutely nothing like the game I fell in love with starting with Fellowship block.

Well said!

There really are many more smaller details in post-Movie that result in an auto-loss when overlooked...some would argue that it makes the game more interesting (I have to say there are some fun aspects to Expanded), but in reality it mostly skewed the game as most fans knew it.

February 10, 2015, 06:41:03 AM
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bibfortuna25

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Re: WOTR League why gandalf deck?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2015, 06:41:03 AM »
Stragglers are certainly tough to beat, but not impossible. You just need to be aware at all times exactly how many times he can use Stragglers and how strong any minion can be at any given time. Having characters who are damage +1 can help immensely because they can pick off the first guy(S) you fight, making Stragglers less effective.

The real trick is to get him to waste Stragglers on meaningless skirmishes. So if you can bait him into using it in order to overwhelm someone, then you can spring a pump or Prolonged Struggle on him and turn the tide of battle. I will often put a 6-strength guy (usually a Tradesman From Lebennin) on a [Men] minion that has strength 11 or less and do his skirmish near the end of the turn, daring him to waste a Stragglers token.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=bibfortuna$xi58rmliig4pjdhd

This was the game that I was most proud of during this league. I got my opponent to waste ALL of his Stragglers at site 6 by pretending that I didn't have any pumps in my hand. This allowed me to have an easy waltz to the end.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 06:50:17 AM by bibfortuna25 »
All cards do what they say, no more, no less.