Movie Meta (Top Tier and/or Commonly Seen Deck Strategies)

[ramolnar]

Yeah, knights are an interesting meta call. I feel like a good Besiegers deck playing 4 x Great Hill Troll or, especially, Great Peril of Fire will usually be a very tough matchup, but you destroy Corsairs, Ninja Gollum, and Dunland and can pretty much infinitely heal yourself against Southrons. Enduring Nazgul can be tricky as well, although Stone Tower means you don't have to worry about ToTo and Between Nazgul and Prey. Also good point on me forgetting to mention enduring nazgul in the tiers--Ellington's build is probably tier two.

I'm undecided on Firebomb--maybe I just play it poorly, but I feel like the deck really suffers against fellowships that can remove possessions and conditions in the fellowship and regroup phases. Which means GLR can be tough, and Gandalf is really a problem. I love the deck--just think the heavy condition/possession hate that the 'big three' of Besiegers/Corsairs/Ninja Gollum inspired have hurt the deck somewhat. It was built for a DH/Rohan metagame, and that metagame just doesn't exist in Movie anymore.
 

You're right, GLR / Great Peril of Fire would be really bad. Nevertheless, I haven't seen Great Peril of Fire that much. Actually, I don't think I've ever faced it.

Knights are a Tier 2 Fellowship. The huge advantage is that they keep nothing in hand, meaning I dump and refill for Firebomb. Nobody is so critical that they can't get eaten by Shotgun Enquea, plus I run 3 Sapling of the White Tree to slow down Ninja Gollum a bit. The pairing works well, and unlike the Gimli/Sam decks paired with Firebomb in real life, Knights can actually run to 9. Yes, there are decks where I pretty much lose, but Movie is too big to have no bad matchups.

Against GLR, I have to build my hand to 7 or 8 minions and play it as a Stupid Swarm deck. Cirdan only kills one, right? It takes practice to know when to hold, and when to drop 1-3 minions to clear cards. Bluffing is also important, particularly at sites 4 and 6. I laugh at people who say it requires no skill - Firebomb is more challenging to play than most decks.

[zen89]

Yeah, knights are an interesting meta call. I feel like a good Besiegers deck playing 4 x Great Hill Troll or, especially, Great Peril of Fire will usually be a very tough matchup, but you destroy Corsairs, Ninja Gollum, and Dunland and can pretty much infinitely heal yourself against Southrons. Enduring Nazgul can be tricky as well, although Stone Tower means you don't have to worry about ToTo and Between Nazgul and Prey. Also good point on me forgetting to mention enduring nazgul in the tiers--Ellington's build is probably tier two.

I'm undecided on Firebomb--maybe I just play it poorly, but I feel like the deck really suffers against fellowships that can remove possessions and conditions in the fellowship and regroup phases. Which means GLR can be tough, and Gandalf is really a problem. I love the deck--just think the heavy condition/possession hate that the 'big three' of Besiegers/Corsairs/Ninja Gollum inspired have hurt the deck somewhat. It was built for a DH/Rohan metagame, and that metagame just doesn't exist in Movie anymore.
 

You're right, GLR / Great Peril of Fire would be really bad. Nevertheless, I haven't seen Great Peril of Fire that much. Actually, I don't think I've ever faced it.

Knights are a Tier 2 Fellowship. The huge advantage is that they keep nothing in hand, meaning I dump and refill for Firebomb. Nobody is so critical that they can't get eaten by Shotgun Enquea, plus I run 3 Sapling of the White Tree to slow down Ninja Gollum a bit. The pairing works well, and unlike the Gimli/Sam decks paired with Firebomb in real life, Knights can actually run to 9. Yes, there are decks where I pretty much lose, but Movie is too big to have no bad matchups.

Against GLR, I have to build my hand to 7 or 8 minions and play it as a Stupid Swarm deck. Cirdan only kills one, right? It takes practice to know when to hold, and when to drop 1-3 minions to clear cards. Bluffing is also important, particularly at sites 4 and 6. I laugh at people who say it requires no skill - Firebomb is more challenging to play than most decks.

Yeah, Firebomb is a really tough deck to play, but very impressive when played well. Unfortunately, I don't play it well. Or maybe I've just been burned by GLR a lot.

I think tiers for fellowships are tougher--it's so much more meta-dependent than shadows, and there are more opportunities for creativity. For example, I don't think I'd characterize the Gondor Burn deck I posted earlier as a Tier 1 FP, but in the meta in which I usually play it (tons of Corsairs, Besiegers, and Ninja Gollum, no GLR), it works well. Just like knights can give Corsairs fits, can struggle vs. Besiegers, and cycle well. If I were to try a rough tier list for Movie Block, it might go something like this:

Tier One:
Elves
Elfman/Last Alliance
Dwarves

Tier Two:
Knights
Gondor Burn
Dauntless Hunter (with GLR)
Merry's Sword Rohan

Tier Three:
Dauntless Hunter (sans GLR)
Traditional Rohan & HiDaN
Ents
Slaked Thirsts

Thoughts?

[ramolnar]

I generally think of fellowships as reactive, in response to expected shadow sides, but that might be my style preference. Fellowships that work outside the skirmish phase are aggressive (archery, Madril), but I don't play them often.

I most often play Knights/Firebomb, Dwarf/Beseiger (using sites to get bigger, not to stack minions), and Dwarf/Southron archery.

To start from our shadow tiers:
I: Corsairs, Beseigers, Ninja Gollum
II: Southron archery, Dunland, Firebomb, Corruption Nazgul
III: Easterlings, other Nazgul, other


Tier One: GLR

Why not play Elves with GLR? The 3G start (Greenleaf, Glorfindel, Galadriel) gives me targeted wounding, a 9/3 companion, and the best condition/possession removal in the game. Cirdan, Elrond, Venerable Lord, and Gil-galad can rotate in later as needed. If someone kills off Galadriel it's still not terrible. Yes, it's beatable - get a Gorgoroth Assassin on Galadriel with no pump in hand; run 4 Terrible as the Dawn; drop Over the Isen, Freca, and survive archery; BNaP a Nazgul; run stupid swarm. None of those are easy.

There's a reason people don't play GLR casually on GEMP. Towers Standard is dominated by Dauntless Hunter - you either play him or play against him. GLR in Movie Block is worse. Before the unofficial "no GLR", I used to have 3 Terrible as the Dawn in my Besiegers and thought about 4. There aren't a ton of other options.

Tier Two: Elfman / Last Alliance (Aragorn and Faramir SoD are nice, but I have to give up GLR to get them)
Gondor Burn (Gandalf and Derufin are not bad, and the companions are more stable, but this is not as good as GLR. However, this is the deck I will likely play in 1-8 and maybe 1-9.)
Dwarves (GEMP people don't play Corsairs much, which makes Durin better. Blood Runs Chill never seems to work when I really need it, though.)
Knights (as discussed earlier. My version runs 3 Sapling of the White Tree to block Gollum a bit.)
Merry's Sword Rohan (play the overpowered card)

Tier Three:
Dauntless Hunter (Without the Riddermark to pull Aragorn, 6 strength Legolas is not very high, though it does have good matchups)
Ents (though I could be tempted to put them at Tier 2 because few Movie shadows can take advantage of giant amounts of twilight)
HiDaN (if I could use Faramir SoD it would be much better. Otherwise, Gondor doesn't get me possession/condition removal, which is what Rohan needs)

Everything else

[zen89]

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. The GLR/Elves FP is so, so powerful in Movie, which is why I think 1-7, 1-8, and 1-9 leagues are the most interesting. And while I suppose there's technically the 'No GLR' gentleman's agreement, I still see her a ton in casual games. And unlike DH, there aren't a ton of ways to deal with her.

I'm looking forward to the King Standard (1-7) league on gemp--it's a really interesting format because you have two newly-strong shadows in Easterlings and Threat Nazgul that look very different from TS shadows, and neither of them is particularly good in any other format.

Elfman and Rohan both get some shiny new toys as well (Anduril, Deor, Merry's Sword, Leowyn), and DH is significantly weakened by basically having an autoloss to Easterlings.

[Inspire]

I'm looking forward to the King Standard (1-7) league on gemp--it's a really interesting format because you have two newly-strong shadows in Easterlings and Threat Nazgul that look very different from TS shadows, and neither of them is particularly good in any other format.

Elfman and Rohan both get some shiny new toys as well (Anduril, Deor, Merry's Sword, Leowyn), and DH is significantly weakened by basically having an autoloss to Easterlings.

Thanks for mentioning this; I hadn't noticed this league until now. I play primarily TS, but I've always enjoyed the 1-7 format.

Is there any way we could get King Standard added as a game option for casual games? I don't know who the appropriate person is to ask.

[Eukalyptus]

MarcinS would be the one to ask. I already did so september 2013 and sadly nothing has happend yet.