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Author Topic: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!  (Read 14219 times)

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April 16, 2015, 12:11:12 PM
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jdizzy001

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Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« on: April 16, 2015, 12:11:12 PM »
I've wanted to build a Naith deck for a long time. I have also wanted to build an isengard man deck for a long time. I finally made one. The Shadow is more of a slow down your opponent kind of deck. I have yet to kill a single comp with it, but it slows down the freeps I have played against quite well. The freeps is an elf skirmish deck.

The Binding Ring
RB: Galadriel, BoW
Erethon
Thonnas

Pengedhel x2
Taurnil x2
Sam, SoH
Elrond, Herald to Gil-Galad
Asfaloth x2
Elven Sword x4
Naith Longbow x4
Vilya
Company of Archers x2
Defiance x4
Flashing Steel x4
That is no orc horn x2
Glimpse of Fate x3

SHADOW:
Agents of Orthanc x4
Grima, SoG x3
Grima, Wormtongue (aka Durin Armor)
Rohirrim Traitor x4
Saruman, Black Traitor, x3
Saruman's Staff, wizard's device x3
Unferth x4 (super important to the deck and I didn't realize it until the 2nd play thru)
Where has Grima stowed it? x4
Desertion x4
Wizard Storm x4

The shadow is very interesting when it works, and very dull when it doesn't. Either way, I have had a lot of fun playing it. The idea is to get your wizard storms out, along side Unferth and a few isenmen. When you do this a lot of exerting happens. Use the conditions to boost the rohirrim traitor and grima adds insult to injury. A lot of insult to injury. With WhGSI you discard their possessions, and with Grima himself you compound the pain of Desertion. What I have found out is that most companions are str 6-8. Grima + Desertion makes them -2. combine this with Unferth, no possessions and a wizard's storm and you have 2 exertions and a wound. OR 1 exertion, a wound and a freeps stop. Either way, it is a lot of fun. I'm sure there is some combination of freeps that will obliterate these guys, but in the mean time, "Grima says no!"

The elves are fun to run too. I tend to lean on Thonnas as my main fighter. An elven sword, Naith longbow and Asfoloth make him pretty great (each opponent skirmishing him is str -2 and he starts the fight at str 10). He has overwhelmed the witch king and taken out a number of other nazgul. Erethon makes a great str 9 dmg +1 clean up fighter, Pengedhel is the str 10 fighter and Taurnil runs support by boosting the cost of possessions by 2 twilight. Sam plays the role of Galadriel's burden bearer (I imagine he followers her around carrying her purse. Get it? Burdens!). Despite this being an elf-centric deck, I found Galadriel to be a little unsupported despite the fact she is str +1 from her ring and str +1 from a sword (if she gets one). Other than that, there is nothing amazing about this deck, it runs a bit of initiative abuse and That is no orc horn provides some site liberation (which is very important in movie block) and Elrond takes care of cleric duties (because he heals).
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 12:21:40 PM by jdizzy001 »
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April 16, 2015, 01:45:34 PM
Reply #1

Not a Zombie

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2015, 01:45:34 PM »
Why flashing steel? Supporting fire doesn't require the exert and gives a similar boost. Otherwise looks fun, got any replays?
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April 16, 2015, 03:01:11 PM
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Durin's Heir

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2015, 03:01:11 PM »
Men Will Fall and Saruman, Servant of the Eye might get you that first kill.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 16, 2015, 09:52:40 PM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 09:52:40 PM »
@Z: Reducing someone's strength makes overwhelm easier than boosting your own str. Hence flashing steel which combines very well with glimpse of fate.

@D I tried men will fail and i never had it when i needed it. When i did have the card in hand it never made a difference in a fight.
*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.

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April 16, 2015, 09:53:15 PM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 09:53:15 PM »
Why flashing steel? Supporting fire doesn't require the exert and gives a similar boost. Otherwise looks fun, got any replays?
How do i make a replay?
*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.

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April 17, 2015, 04:13:41 AM
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Cw0rk

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 04:13:41 AM »
Click on the "game history" tab, then click on "replay link".

April 17, 2015, 12:52:13 PM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 12:52:13 PM »
cool! I will post the next game I play with my Naith deck.
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April 17, 2015, 01:27:17 PM
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jdizzy001

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April 17, 2015, 05:33:30 PM
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Cw0rk

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 05:33:30 PM »
Great to watch someone lose to Izzy Men! Although your fellowship technically won, his crucial mistake was to stop at site 2. He was probably worrying about non-roaming men.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 05:51:32 PM by Cw0rk »

April 17, 2015, 07:58:35 PM
Reply #9

bibfortuna25

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 07:58:35 PM »
Men Will Fall is absolutely crucial for any [Isengard] Men deck.
All cards do what they say, no more, no less.

April 17, 2015, 11:30:51 PM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2015, 11:30:51 PM »
Mayhaps I'll drop a few copies of wizard storm for men will fall.
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April 18, 2015, 05:39:17 PM
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ramolnar

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 05:39:17 PM »
This is a fun deck, and you did win that game though your opponent made several mistakes. It has trouble with Grond and Promise Keeping and Firebomb, but fun decks aren't supposed to do that. Somebody was running Isengard Men in Towers Block - you?

* Exerting is expensive with Flashing Steel. I know -3 is better than +3 with Supporting Fire, but it doesn't work on Galadriel when she's exhausted.
* The Binding Ring scares me because of Morcs. It's too easy for Gollum to exhaust you. You've only got one ring to pull anyway. Isildur's Bane is also +1/+1 and a lot safer.
* Shadow Between would help this deck cycle. I'd replace Elrond and Vilya with Shadow Between and another Company of Archers for consistency.

* Men Will Fall is great! I'd pull a Wizard Storm and a Where has Grima Stole It? and try at least two. At the very least, it introduces panic, and panic leads to errors, as you saw.

April 19, 2015, 06:03:28 AM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 06:03:28 AM »
Those are excellent suggestions. I'm still not convinced about supporting fire though. Although the exert for flashing steel always worries me. The binding ring has not been a problem, even with morcs. However by adding shadow between, I wouldn't need the binding ring.
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April 19, 2015, 07:11:52 PM
Reply #13

Durin's Heir

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 07:11:52 PM »
If exertions are worring you, perhaps you might try a radical change: Gimli BoG instead as Ringbearer, to use Shoulder to Shoulder. Then you should start Galadriel LR, in order to start Erethon and Thonnas as usually.

You can get the Naith elves to their full strength with a bunch of [Elven] or [Dwarven] allies and Lend Us Your Aid.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 08:15:05 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 19, 2015, 08:30:58 PM
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dethwish07

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2015, 08:30:58 PM »
I have a variation of this deck that I'll post if jdizzy is cool with it. It incorporates some of the suggestions that have been offered here with some of my own ideas while still keeping to the spirit of jdizzy's original list. I will say this though: I like the way Durin's Heir thinks. As far as this deck goes, he and I seem to be operating on the same wave length.

April 20, 2015, 01:26:25 PM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2015, 01:26:25 PM »
Sounds good, I'd like to see your take on it
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April 20, 2015, 02:37:02 PM
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dethwish07

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2015, 02:37:02 PM »
Ok, so I like the idea of using the Naith and the strength reduction of Flashing Steel but don't like having to exert.  This is the list I came up with to address that concern. It is a little larger than jdizzy's, but seems to be cycling well so far.

Ring-bearer: Gimli, Bearer of Grudges
Ring: The One Ring, Answer To All Riddles

Adventure deck:
Rohirrim Road
King's Tent
Hall of the Kings
Anduin Banks
City Gates
Minas Tirith First Circle
Ruined Capitol
Morgulduin
Haunted Pass

Free Peoples Draw Deck (36):
1x Erethon, Naith Lieutenant
1x Gil-galad, Elven High King
1x Legolas, Archer of Mirkwood (Start)
2x Pengedhel, Naith Warrior
1x Taurnil, Sharp-eyed Bowman
1x Thonnas, Naith Captain (Start)
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
1x Elrond, Herald to Gil-galad
1x Galadriel, Lady of the Golden Wood
1x Axe of Erebor
1x Asfaloth, Elven Steed
1x Bow of the Galadhrim, Gift of Galadriel
4x Elven Sword
3x Naith Longbow
1x Ring of Fury
3x Company of Archers
4x Flashing Steel
4x Fleet-footed
2x Glimpse of Fate
1x Shadow Between
1x Shoulder to Shoulder

Shadow Draw Deck (36):
4x Agents of Orthanc
3x Grima, Son of Galmod
1x Grima, Wormtongue
4x Rohirrim Traitor
3x Saruman, Black Traitor
1x Saruman, Servant of the Eye
4x Unferth, Grima's Bodyguard
3x Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device
4x Men Will Fall
2x Where Has Grima Stowed It?
4x Desertion
3x Wizard Storm

So, I'm running Gimli BoG and using Legolas, Archer of Mirkwood in my starting along with Thonnas. Gimli allows for use of Shoulder to Shoulder (as I said, I like the way Durin's Heir thinks!). Legolas is spotted to play Thonnas and has a nice healing ability (and maybe saves you from dealing with a snap-concession that would come along with trying to use Galadriel LR against some of the folks around here!). Coupled with his bow (Gift of Galadriel), he is a great candidate for the use of Flashing Steel while helping your other Elves, such as Thonnas, use it as well. I have removed a both Asfaloth, 2x That is No Orc Horn and Vilya. I prefer the RotK Asfaloth as you don't have to fear losing it to the occasional underground site 4. I've added Shadow Between and Lady of the Golden Wood for additional healing and a third Company of Archers as more condition removal that isn't reliant on getting out my singleton Elrond HtGG. I've also diversified the companions slightly. Additionally, I have swapped the 4x Defiance for 4x Fleet-Footed.  I like these because they are strength reduction events akin to Flashing Steel. And I as have removed the nombo with That is No Orc Horn for other healing, turning this into a -2 version of Still Needed, should my opponent control any sites. Threw in a couple items for Gimli to up his strength and resistance a bit.

As far as shadow, as Bib said, you have to have Men Will Fall in an [Isengard] men deck. Dropped 2x Where Has Grima Stowed It? and a copy of Wizard Storm. Added the 4 Men Will Fall and a copy of Saruman, Servant of the Eye (again I say, I like the way Durin's Heir thinks!).

It is not the most powerful movie block deck, but I agree with jdizzy: this kind of deck is a lot of fun.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 02:45:31 PM by dethwish07 »

April 20, 2015, 03:47:22 PM
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Cw0rk

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 03:47:22 PM »
If you use fleet footed, I recommend that you use that site 5 that let an opponent take control of a site.

April 20, 2015, 03:48:01 PM
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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 03:48:01 PM »
Looks like a fun list, however Morgulduin is probably the worst site 8 you could pick. You can't use it's text and it can be devastating if an opponent gets to.
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April 20, 2015, 04:00:40 PM
Reply #19

dethwish07

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 04:00:40 PM »
If you use fleet footed, I recommend that you use that site 5 that let an opponent take control of a site.
Good call.
Looks like a fun list, however Morgulduin is probably the worst site 8 you could pick. You can't use it's text and it can be devastating if an opponent gets to.
Ah, good catch. In an earlier version I had a copy of Enquea LoM in there. Guess I forgot to swap the site. Without him in there, I'll go with Cross Roads.

So the adjusted list would be as follows:

-1 City Gates*
+1 Crashed Gate

And either

-1 Morgulduin
+1 Cross Roads

or

-1 Desertion
+1 Enquea LoM

Thanks for the comments!

April 21, 2015, 04:16:42 PM
Reply #20

Durin's Heir

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2015, 04:16:42 PM »
Dethwish, I'm glad you like my way of thinking. I like yours, btw ;).

Archer of Mirkwood is awesome in Naith Elves or Shoulder to Shoulder decks. And (Oh! What a coincidence!) this is both.

I like to use Watchers of Cirith Ungol if I cannot get any profit of site 8 with my own Shadow. It's the safest site 8 in my opinion. Cross Roads is very powerful with Southrons or Corsairs (Gimli will be adding threats), while [Wraith] Orcs tend to get much better bonuses for each threat by themselves (Morgul Destroyer), and if things turn dangerous you can always control threats in skirmish by sacrificing a defender.

Thrarin, Dwarven Smith + Shoulder to Shoulder + Disquiet of Our People is an awesome combo if you face swarm or if you need to sweep the threat pool. A defender +1 or +2 cannon fodder out of the blue (very funny in FOTR against The Balrog and a Cave Troll). Even better with Gimli's Helm.


I like the combo of Flashing Steel + Bow of the Galadhrim, GoG. + Archer of Mirkwood, even better. :up:
With so many healing tricks you might add 1 or 2 copies of Lend Us Your Aid.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:59:16 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 21, 2015, 05:11:45 PM
Reply #21

Durin's Heir

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2015, 05:11:45 PM »
You might try to add Bill Ferny, SSF to the Shadow side. Unferth can exhaust their direct-wounding fellows, and then Ferny can make the difference between a loss and a kill. Besides, Saruman SotE is self assignable with Saruman's Staff, and gets much stronger with the aid of self-assignable Ferny: strength 14, damage +1.

And adding 1x Saruman's Power can destroy condition-intensive fellowships: Knights, The Shire Countryside, Shadowplay...
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 21, 2015, 05:27:21 PM
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dethwish07

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2015, 05:27:21 PM »
I like to use Watchers of Cirith Ungol if I cannot get any profit of site 8 with my own Shadow. It's the safest site 8 in my opinion. Cross Roads is very powerful with Southrons or Corsairs (Gimli will be adding threats), while [Wraith] Orcs tend to get much better bonuses for each threat by themselves (Morgul Destroyer), and if things turn dangerous you can always control threats in skirimish by sacrificing a defender.
Ah, makes sense. Good call.

Thrarin, Dwarven Smith + Shoulder to Shoulder + Disquiet of Our People is an awesome combo if you face swarm or if you need to sweep the threat pool. A defender +1 or +2 cannon fodder out of the blue (very funny in FOTR against The Balrog and a Cave Troll). Even better with Gimli's Helm.

...

With so many healing tricks you might add 1 or 2 copies of Lend Us Your Aid.
I like these ideas. Hard to fit though. I guess in the case of the former, if I have issues with swarm, I'd drop 1x Flashing Steel, 1x Fleet-Footed, and 1x Elven sword for Thrarin, Dwarven Speedbump and a copy of Disquiet of Our People as well as a second copy of Shoulder to Shoulder.

I love Lend Us Your Aid. If I add one, I'd take out a copy of Fleet-Footed... If I added a second, I guess I'd remove a Flashing Steel.

You might try to add Bill Ferny, SSF to the Shadow side. Unferth can exhaust their direct-wounding fellows, and then Ferny can make the difference between a loss and a kill. Besides, Saruman SotE is self assignable with Saruman's Staff, and gets much stronger with the aid of self-assignable Ferny: strength 14, damage +1.

And adding 1x Saruman's Power can destroy condition-intensive fellowships: Knights, The Shire Countryside, Shadowplay...

More good ideas... Harder to accommodate. I'll try and do some brewing and report back.

Thanks for the critique/comments, DH!

April 23, 2015, 01:47:22 PM
Reply #23

Durin's Heir

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2015, 01:47:22 PM »
Watchers of Cirith Ungol: The best point about this site is its specificity. It's very unlikely to see [Wraith] Orcs splashed, most of the times they either are the main force or aren't present at all. The same cannot be said about Nazgul, [Sauron] Orcs, Gollum...

Thrarin + Disquiet: This combo isn't necessary at all if you have such strong companions as the Naith Elves and Gimli. Lend Us Your Aid covers all your companions and should be enough against swarm. And it almost ensures Legolas' victory, so you can reduce the total exertions of Gimli.
If you add 2 or more copies of Lend Us Your Aid, Grimir can be a much better investment for that slot than Thrarin, to recycle those events and to keep the Shoulder to Shoulder machine running (you can heal 2 wounds for the price of 1 card and 1 twilight).

Bill Ferny: A clear drawback of Men Will Fall is it only works against unbound comps. So Bill Ferny can help you against Ringbound guys, as far as they don't bear a Ranger's Bow with vitality to exert; Cliffs of Emyn Muil can nullify him too. And of course, against UB companions you can pile up both cards for a devastating effect.


Hope this helps sir. Both sides seem to cycle very fast, so adding a couple of new cards to both sides shouldn't be troublesome really. I'm waiting for your report.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 01:50:14 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 23, 2015, 03:33:54 PM
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Cw0rk

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2015, 03:33:54 PM »
Bill Ferny is also quite annoying with alternate ring-bearers.

April 24, 2015, 07:47:36 PM
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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2015, 07:47:36 PM »
I would like to point out that you can also pump your men with Library of Orthanc. Could also be a way to stack your multiple copies of Unferth, Grima, Saruman, and take them when you need them.

April 25, 2015, 05:04:19 AM
Reply #26

Gil-Estel

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2015, 05:04:19 AM »
I love Isengard men, and i love to see some familar faces!
..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

April 25, 2015, 09:38:14 AM
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jdizzy001

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2015, 09:38:14 AM »
I love Isengard men, and i love to see some familar faces!
We never left ;)

Bill Ferny is also quite annoying with alternate ring-bearers.
bill ferny might be a great alternative to men will fall.

Also, replacing supporting fire with fleet foot was awesome. Between that and flashing steel you get a -5 for the cost of an exert and 1 twilight. -9 if it sets off glimpse of fate.
*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.

I play LOTR SBG look at my minis!
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April 25, 2015, 10:32:57 AM
Reply #28

Durin's Heir

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Re: Naith Elves and Isenmen, or Grima says no!
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2015, 10:32:57 AM »
bill ferny might be a great alternative to men will fall.

That's right, but keep in mind Bill Ferny SSF has 2 clear drawbacks: it's predictable and may be killed before or during the skirmish. And while Men Will Fall cannot be played against RB companions, it keeps the surprise factor that, more often than not, will force your opponent to make mistakes. And if you happen to face a completely RB fellowship, you can always ditch those pumps with your Elven Swords ;).

My point is: don't replace one with the other. The idea is not to have those 4 card slots of Men Will Fall in Dethwish's list redistributed between Men Will Fall and Bill Ferny, but to have more than 4 pumps with those different 2 cards.

That way you can cover more possibilities (RB and UB; surprise and predictable; exploting alternative an RB), and very often pile up one on the other for much better chances of killing.

I would like to point out that you can also pump your men with Library of Orthanc. Could also be a way to stack your multiple copies of Unferth, Grima, Saruman, and take them when you need them.

That's true, Library of Orthanc can be very powerful with cheap minions like [Isengard] Men or [Isengard] Orcs (as it needs to play multiple minions and keep some spare twilight). But has the problem of forcing you to assemble the FP side to be able to work with (or from) the discard pile, using cards like Fireworks, Barliman, Greyhame, Dear Friends or stacking Dwarves.

And that would force this deck to depart too much from its original mechanics. Still possible, and very powerful.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:59:50 PM by Durin's Heir »
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