White Life Gain/Control

[sharkey]

Okay, my first MTG deck, but I need help. I think it works, but I would like advice from more experienced players.

Total: 64 cards

Lands (26) :

4 Marsh Flats
4 Arid Mesa
2 Terramorphic Expanse
16 Plains

Creatures (15) :

4 Felidar Soveriegn
4 Wall of Reverence
3 Soul Warden
4 Step Lynx

Planeswalkers (4) :

4 Ajani Goldmane

Spells (19) :

4 Journey to Nowhere
4 Safe Passage
3 Landbind Ritual
4 Celestial Mantle
4 Day of Judgement

Sideboard (15) :
4 Silence
4 Path to Exile
4 Martial Coup
3 Invincible Hymn

So, the idea is to get to 40 life with Felidar Sovereign on the field.

Any suggestions?

[FM]

I'll give you general ones first. Control decks tend to play big spells (Kiss of Amesha, for instance, would fit right in if the format wasn't standard), so they need to hit land drops for a longer period of time, which is why I always advise control decks to play at laest 24 lands, and that's to be at the low side. Those artifacts you pack simply won't do. Either focus on one of them, and play, like, 3-4 copies, or lose them for something more reliable, like more Ajanis (don't be mistaken, opponents WILL kill your Ajanis). Also, you need a single SOvereign to win, so you either stick it down and win, or you don't have any down and lose, so Clone is right out. You also need to gum up the ground, and play sweepers, otherwise gaining life will be made impossible, since the opponent will keep swinging at it. I advise Baneslayer Angel and Wall of Denial, as well as Day of Judgment. Any big bad lifelink fattie will do, in fact. If you can't affor the sweepers, THEN up the count of spot removal, Journey to Nowhere, Path to Exile and Essence Scatter all come to mind. You can lose Cancel. By fixing the maindeck, we can then move onto the sideboard.

[sharkey]

Clone is meant to copy and block any bad beasties a green deck could pull out, or alternately copy a Soul Warden to give more life (5 for each critter).

I believe wall of denial is no longer standard legal?

Why should I lose Cancel? I can use it to block any game-ender. Unlike Essence Scatter and Negate, it can be used on anything for one more mana. I have Day of Judgement sideboarded in case it's needed, but I would prefer to make decks with cards that don't cost $20 for a playset. I will if I feel it's vital, but I don't feel that right now.

Path to Exile and Excommincate, etc, are there partially as spot removal, partially there to protect my Sovereigns from cards like Burst Lighting and Cancel (Exiling him, them using Narrow Escape to pull Path back, putting him on the battlefield again).

[FM]

As far as I'm concerned Wall of Denial is ALara BLock, therefore Standard legal, but correct me if I'm mistaken. If you DO put in the walls, mass removal is less necessary, but spot removal needs to be increased. Also, Cancel is just plain slow, crams up too much of your mana, spot removal can play its role in the end game for less mana (and also plays Clone role, as well). Soul Warden is just slow, also, unless YOU have an engine to pop out critters, because:
1 - Combo won't care about your life gain, if the combo gets going, it'll win anyway (alternatively, if they DO care about your life gain, they always have some form of spot removal to get rid of trouble creatures until they go off, so they get rid of them);
2 - Control plays too few creatures for it to matter (they're just too big), and if you want to say "But at least I can attack them a few times", then I'll say "Play Elite Vanguard, then". ;
3 - Aggro decks. THESE are the ones that DO care about Soul Warden, they play a lot of creatures, and they run out of gas fast if they can't kill you. However, they all play some number of removal spells AND burn, and they WILL aim it at SOul Warden, so you'll rarely benefit from them.

[sharkey]

Okay, I redid it a little. I added 2 twincasts, maindecked and sideboarded. I also sidebarded a soul warden and removed some other cards. See what you think now.

[FM]

I'm not sure what do you need Twincast for, and about Soul Warden, I think you're missing the point: it's not that the creature is not that great, it's just that the STRATEGY is too fragile, relying on the opponent's creatures to actually beneift from them. It works fine in Limited, but in Constructed, it 'ont cut it, unless there's a deck that makes an arbitrarely large number of creatures to kill you (like a combo, and even so it'd be a bad sideboard card, in fact). Reducing the number of Soul Wardens only makes it less reliable to actually have one in your opening hand, and also makes them easier to deal with, so what I'm suggesting is to either try to push the strategy (Esperzoa + Artifact creatures, or any other repeatable bounce effect, for instance) and play a full set, or to abandon the strategy (of playing Soul Wardens, that is) and make room for something else.

[sharkey]

Twincast is a universally helpful blue spell. You seem to miss the fact the three soul wardens plus 6 creatures=20 life. Most games are going to have that. Sure, they will be removed, killed, etc. But 3 mana for 20 life is nothing to sneeze at.

[FM]

In abstract. I've never seen someone suspend Heroes Remebered, though, back when it was legal. For the same reason. It takes just too much time, while it can be disrupted by a single spell. You won't get all 3 Soul Wardens down quickly enough, you won't probably get them all at all in most games, you'll end up seeing 2, at most. I, too, like Twincast for it being versatile, but in its versatility, I found out I included it for no reason than copying counterspells or card drawing a lot of times, so I ended up swapping them for said spells, although my Faeries deck still plays 2 in the sideboard, can never be too sure.

[sharkey]

Yes. They also really help vs Hypergenesis decks and White Weenie decks, as they tend not to run removal. I can also throw them aways as blockers for creatures without trample "My soul warden is going to block you 8 Landfalled Geopede. Hope you don't mind."

As for the Twincast, I love bringing in cards that do have a use in my deck (copying cards like cancel, angel's mercy, and narrow escape) but also are useful vs heavy spell decks and copying opponents fun cards.

[sharkey]

Won vs. white weenie with this deck... not so much luck against others. But keeping at it!

[FM]

I can see it working against bad white weenies, but Hypergenesis? It simply won't be enough against the much oomph they're throwing down. My white weenie decks all run Umezawa's Jitte, and Soul Warden, without ways to be abused, simply won't be enough. Have you considered the combo of Martyr of Sands and Proclamation of Rebirth?

[sharkey]

Got it... This has it, I think. MUCH happier.

[sharkey]

Okay... I fixed this up nicely. It's now a mono-white deck, and it's been imitated on MWS a few times. I've been winning some games, but so for nothing big, other than a win vs. jund.

[FM]

So.. what's the list now?

[sharkey]

I'll post it soon, I'm doing some tweaking

[Witchkingx5]

And here we see something pretty interesting too: How many Lands should I play?
I'd actually say 20 Lands, 8 years playing MtG has given me some experiance
Now seriously , I prefer really fast Decks when you can play 75% of all your cards during your 4th turn, and I think much place can be saved wen runnung a faster Deck, you can calculate this very easyly:
When you run 30 cards and have 20 expensive creatures, it takes you a while until they're out.
But running 20 Lands and having 30 less expensive but also expensive Creatures like Watchwolf, Jötun etc., you still get "the same amount of power", as I say.
Even in Control, I run just a maximum of 22-24 Lands, cus there actually are (or were) "cheap" Control Spells like Cryptic Command (I own 2). Paying 4 mana isn't so hard at all, but you can get nearly everything with that spell.

[sharkey]

Okay, here it is. The step lynxs speed it up a little, and the fetch lands help. I like the idea behind it, and so far no troubles. A killer vs. Naya decks, lol. They take two step forwards, 1 step back, until I drop a day of judgement of landbind ritual. Then it repeats. Until I win.

[FM]

I think 8 wrath effects is overkill, you're probably fine with 4 maindecked and 2 TOPS at your sideboard (although I have a feeling you might not even play those). I'd probably maindeck Path to Exile, btw, best spot-removal spell in standard, probably second best in the game, it surely warrants a spot maindecked. I'd kick out the Lynxes, they do not fit with a control theme, and I'd also like to point out you play 10 fetches, which in fact REDUCE the number of lands you are actually packing, so you have to play 26. I'd straight out cut the fetches, and play Kabira Crossroades and the likes, lowering the land count to 24, tops (this alone should open room for Path to Exile). Also, since you will only use Ajani's + ability (ok, not "only", but most likely), you might get hand-clogged a bit, so I'd cut 1-2 of him (1 at least, 2 if he proves too slow, but still useful).

[sharkey]

Ok. I agree with:

1: 2 Wrath Effects. I think 2 Martial Coup sideboarded is fine.
2: Fetch Lands. I already cut out some.
3: Path to Exile.

I disagree with:
1: Adding other non-basic lands. While they really help with the life gain, they hinder Landbind ritual and also slow the deck down.
2: Steppe Lynx. They need to stay. They provide nice blockers for my life total, and help speed the deck up.
3: Ajani. 3 are needed, as he is very important, and I have gone through 3 in a game and needed a fourth.

[FM]

I think 3 is a fine number. I think 4 might be a little too much, you could board the fourth. As for the Lynx, how about the new Worldwake defender guy, that gains you life whenever something with defender blocks? Same mana cost, bigger behind and life gain to boot.

[sharkey]

What is he called?

[FM]

Can't recall right now, and salvation is not opening, but check mtgsalvation.com for the spoiler, you'll spot him there.

[sharkey]

Total: 60

Lands:

17   Plains      
4   Marsh Flats      
4   Arid Mesa      
      
Creatures:
         
4   Wall of Reverence   
4   Felidar Sovereign   
4   Perimeter Captain   
2   Admonition Angel   

Spells:      
         
3   Celestial Mantle   
3   Ajani Goldmane   
3   Landbind Ritual   
4   Day of Judgement   
4   Safe Passage   
4   Journey to Nowhere   
      
Sideboard:
         
4   Path to Exile   
4   Silence
3   Pithing Needle
4   Brave the Elements   

This deck is awesome. I may decide to remove Landbind and add Rest, as it is quicker, and I may switch Emaria for Admonition, but I have yet to decide. Suggestions? This deck is winning most of its duels, including vs. Jund and vampires.

[lem0nhead]

Hey mate this is a good deck, its very smilar to one my mate runs and his is incredibly hard to beat. He uses sunpetal grove and splashes nissa, nissas chosen, fog and elvish archdruid. it works surprisingly well, as the elves come out easily enough and provide 1. stalling by blocking and 2. a potent threat as the archdruid pumps all the chosens. But the key is nissas life gain for the elves in play. He also using mycoid shepherd.

If you did not wish to adjust your deck so massively as above, though i promise you its good, one card i can massively recommend be added to yours is Guardian Seraph. a few of these and you will lose little life and they are a very useful creature anyway.