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Author Topic: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game  (Read 271103 times)

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March 14, 2016, 05:44:03 AM
Reply #345

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #345 on: March 14, 2016, 05:44:03 AM »
Here are the objectives of the new cards.

There will be 4 new packs:
- Balin pack : Balin's abilty, Ori,...
- Elrond pack : Vilya, Lindir,...
- Blue Mountains Pack : Bombur, Bofur, Bifur, pack based on [Dwarven] followers.
- Travellers Pack : around Prancing Pony, multicultural pack.

FP Objectives:
- Balin+Ori interaction in the Balin pack, Blue Mountains, even Travellers.
- transfert without cost for [Dwarven] followers (Bofur rarely used).
- search [Dwarven] companions in the draw deck for two packs (Gandalf LoD).
- more heal for the Dwarves
- punish the fellowship when the FP player plays Gandalf or Dwarves after site 5
- punish the fellowship according to the number of deaths.
- fighting Bilbo (Sting rarely used)
- more heal for Gandalf
- more [Gandalf] events
- Gandalf LotC makes the deck more stable than the other Gandalf

Shadow Objectives:
- more Trolls (Dawn Take You All rarely used).
- Shadow possessions with powerful effects after archery phase (Nori's ability rarely used).
- use the wounds on Gandalf and on Bilbo.
- avoid Orcrist/make Thorin weaker.
- use the minions beneath the deck.
- play conditions from the discard pile, even from the draw deck.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 05:47:07 AM by -Enola- »
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March 16, 2016, 11:37:17 AM
Reply #346

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #346 on: March 16, 2016, 11:37:17 AM »
I'm sorry for this absense :(.

- Corrupted Men: I like the new ideas, though have some differences:

- The base strength is too low for site 6 minions (should range between 6 and 9).
- The referrence to "minions with strength X or lower" should be to "Man or Elf minions" instead: they had no alliance with Orcs and instead hated/feared them.
- Therefore, they should be discarding Orc cards in either play or hand as a resource to get bonuses. Moreover, it'd be nice if Men pick either Orcs from hand (like Attea and Toldea) or from play (like Spiders), and Elves pick the remaining option. (Note that Hatred Rekindled/Hosts of Thousands will be useful only with the discarding of Orcs from play).
- The names don't fit with a "bully police force" and their civilian informers. They weren't a Gangsquad but a corrupted police corporation ("Guards", "Soldiers"), and some and some civilian "Spies" or "Sneaks". The range of "Lieutenant" seems too high for a policeman/soldier in a small town, and even higher for a mere gangsta.
- The whole culture relies on a single card, the condition Alfrid's Influence. So it shouldn't be unique.
- Their low vitality is ok, but that can make them weak to unassigned archery (and will make them weak to direct archery/wounding). A Man can carry the text of "Man and Elf minions may not take wounds, except during skirmishes" (btw, that will make them even more distant to Orcs, which will take FP arrows).

Things I like:
- "Lurker" Braga is cool, in both strategy and lore. =D>
- The exerting-text you chose is better than the centralized Unferth effect I proposed.
- "Gangsquad Lieutenant" playing Alfrid's Influence from draw deck or discard pile is a simple way to start things from the beginning, and keep them working.
- Laketown Mercernary's skirmish skill is frightening! :twisted:
- The TUOM skill of Alfrid's Influence should have been used more by Decipher. Very creative! :)


So at first stance I'd change the names, make their base strength a bit higher, make Alfrid's Influence non-unique, and include the "Broad-bladed Sword" skill in "Gangsquad Member" (he has plenty of room) or in a new weapon.

Considering Alfrid's Influence will be played very soon, I'd change the passive skill: "Each time a companion or [Dale] ally heals, you may draw a card." Sanctuaries and Elrond will give you a fast set up, and this will allow you to build bigger decks. And you can also get Smaug sooner by drawing him, which pairs good with the low cost of these Men, and the Master using the Company as a way to get Smaug's hunger satisfied for a while.

Hope this helps.


- New Objectives: Interesting. :up:. I like them. I love the idea of a new "Blue Mountains" pack ;D! I'll be writing more about those points you listed during the next days, probably.

- transfer without cost for [Dwarven] followers (Bofur rarely used)
- more heal for the Dwarves
- (Nori's ability rarely used)
I made this card for the Blue Mountains pack, to solve those 3 points:

[2] Loyalty, Honor, A Willing Heart [Dwarven]
Event • Maneuver
Attach X [Dwarven] followers from your support area to your companions (without paying their aid cost) to heal X wounds from Dwarf companions.
"'I would take each and every one of these Dwarves over an army from the Iron Hills. For when I called upon them, they answered... I can ask no more than that.'"

The 2 main problems of having 4+ [Dwarven] followers in play are the decision of which of them must be used (and which not), and the counter you created to prevent such long maneuver phases: Orkish Marauder. This card counters both, so you can play every [Dwarven] follower and use them without problems (or long decisions) if you carry this event, or discard some of them at fellowship phase with Thorin if you don't. That way, the Blue Mountains pack will be the only pack using all [Dwarven] followers you have, which is according to the flavor of the "exiled Dwarves" theme.

This card will also heal. And healing will get more use to Nori's skill (which exerts too much). 3 birds with a single stone!


- fighting Bilbo (Sting rarely used)
Also A Took in the Travellers pack will give Bilbo much more use. And can feed Sting also: 1st you use any [Dwarven] skirmish event (much better if is Noble Intentions, but Battle Fury/Never Forgave will do), then you play Also A Took, and then if Bilbo wins you recover that [Dwarven] event (or any other [Dwarven] card), AND trigger Sting's condition discard. If that [Dwarven] card is Noble Intentions, you can use Bilbo (and Sting's skill) again at a fierce skirmish.

Pity (the card I proposed to replace Bilbo's Pony) should also make Bilbo a much more frequent fighter. It can be used from discard pile, and if Bilbo wins he will heal 1 or those 2 wounds for playing it from discard. Bilbo's Pony is much more stable, but is also much weaker. And much more irrelevant, lore-wise.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 11:56:23 AM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

March 16, 2016, 02:35:37 PM
Reply #347

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #347 on: March 16, 2016, 02:35:37 PM »
Thank you for your propositions.

- I will probably change the [Men] Shadow. It depends on the structure of the other Shadows of the packs. [Moria] Stone Giants (15 cards) and Mirkwood Elves (10 cards) seems to be the only remaining Shadows.

- Nice for the objectives, but this [Dwarven] event you propose is too strong. We have to balance it.

- Ok, but for the fighting Bilbo, it will be much more simpler with [Dwarven] events boosting Bilbo. But I don't think you want to have Also a Took and Pity as [Dwarven] cards? :p
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 02:47:04 PM by -Enola- »
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March 16, 2016, 03:39:15 PM
Reply #348

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #348 on: March 16, 2016, 03:39:15 PM »
About the [Moria] Stone Giants, they didn't fight the Company in the book, and weren't really important in the film. To be consistent with the book, they should be really strong minions but discardable (or avoidable) by paying an alternative cost, like "add a doubt" or "make the move limit -1", and as such they will seldom fight. I've not seen yet your ideas about Stone Giant minions, but the notion I have doesn't convince me at all.


Smaug lacks a lot of things. He has no Fire-breath, no armor condition/possession to prevent non-[Dale] wounds, very few mind games and manipulation tricks... He NEEDS a card like The Witch King's Beast, to allow him to skirmish more than 2 times per turn.

Sauron doesn't have anything portraying his plans. Look at this card proposition:

[2] A Plan Long In The Making [Sauron]
Event • Maneuver
Heal X Free Peoples characters to add [X] and place X cards from your discard pile on top of your draw deck (except Smaug).
Each player reconciles. Players may play cards and use special abilities as if it were the Fellowship or Shadow phase.
"'Our enemy has summoned his full strength.'"

So the Enemy gives the FP a "calm before the storm", where the good guys heal and play new cards, but meanwhile the Shadow musters a large and frightening army. You get the things you need back from discard, and the Maneuver phase becomes at the same time a new fellowship phase and a new shadow phase. Obviously, the twilight added by the FP cards will be useful to the Shadow players. I believe it's perfect for a Site 9 kill, even if you didn't do much harm at the previous sites (but the FP side still has surviving chances by healing and playing new reinforcements).

Well, my point is that Sauron can have many tricks and minions like that, even without having to be present at all. Even [Sauron] wounding Orcs like Orc War Band and Orc Cutthroat, and other grinding tricks!


- Loyalty, Honor, A Willing Heart: Yes, it is really strong. A way to balance it might be to discard X cards from hand (thus limiting your other tricks, especially skirmish events, and weakening your Shadow side):

"Discard X cards from hand to attach X [Dwarven] followers to your companions (without paying their aid cost) and heal X wounds from [Dwarven] companions."

- Also A Took & Pity: That'd be really nasty :twisted:! But Pity can be played from discard (by exerting twice), so it might be too much with Sting. Also A Took seems less likely to be overpowered...



- Terrifying Legend: Hmmm, I know this is an old topic, but I believe it's fairly overpowered and misaimed. It has no alternative cost, so [Dale] Men will die with ease; many Main deck Orcs have 3 vitality, and Trolls/Nazgul/Wargriders will feast (moreover those that trigger when winning a skirmish, like Bolg son of Azog, Gollum and Tom). AND this card can be used by other minions than Smaug, which is really unconsistent with the lore and flavor.

An option is to include an alternative cost: "That ally may discard to prevent that", or "The Free Peoples player may... to prevent that":
- exert 2 companions
- exert a companion twice
- discard 2 cards from hand (at the assignment phase the FP player shouldn't have many cards in hand)
- exert another ally...

But that bloats the text a lot. And still a [Gundabad] Orc using this skill seems like the assault of Bolg's Hunters at Esgaroth, which is isn't bad in itself BUT is a very different thing than Smaug's destruction of the Lake-town. With all those reasons in mind, I propose this:


[2] Terrifying Legend [No Culture]
Condition • Support Area
Each time a minion overwhelms a companion or ally, you may discard a possession (and wound an ally if you spot Smaug).
Regroup: Exert Smaug twice to suspend this phase and make him participate in one additional assignment and skirmish phase. Then, resume the current phase.
"'I kill where I wish and none dare resist!'"

EDIT: Clarified the wording of the Regroup skill. That doesn't increase the number of lines is uses (4).

The regroup skill is an imitation of The Witch King's Beast, which I believe is what should do a trick for Smaug: allow him to kill and kill again. Being a regroup action, Bard's skill can try to stop him first (but if you overwhelm 2 characters first (or 1 character with 2 copies in play), Smaug will exhaust/kill him, and "none will dare resist"!).
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 02:53:23 PM by Durin's Heir »
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March 17, 2016, 02:12:13 PM
Reply #349

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #349 on: March 17, 2016, 02:12:13 PM »
Here's an example of what the Stone Giants would look like:

3x Granit Giant : Cost (12). [Moria] Minion. Giant. Strength 12. Vitality 3. Site 4.
At a mountain site, this minion is twilight cost -6.
This minion may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Archery: Exert this minion and discard a card at random from hand. If it is a Shadow card, play a [Moria] possession from your draw deck or discard pile.

3x Lavastone Giant : Cost (16). [Moria] Minion. Giant. Strength 16. Vitality 4. Site 4.
At a mountain site, this minion is twilight cost -8.
This minion may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Archery: Exert this minion and discard the bottom card of your draw deck. If it is a Shadow card, play a [Moria] possession from your draw deck or discard pile.

3x Stone returns to Earth : Cost (0). [Moria] Event - Archery.
You may remove from the game 4 Shadow cards from your discard pile to play this event from your discard pile.
Discard a minion to draw X cards, where X is this minion's vitality. Then, you may play a minion.

3x Overhanging Rock: Cost (0). [Moria] Possession.  Vitality +1.
Bearer must be a [Moria] Giant.
At the end of the archery phase, you may exert 2 [Moria] Giants to exert a companion.
Archery: Exert bearer and discard this possession to take a Giant from your discard pile into hand.

3x Boulder Rock: Cost (1). [Moria] Possession.  Vitality +2.
Bearer must be a [Moria] Giant.
Archery: Discard this possession to make the minion archery total +2.


- With this version of Terrifying Legend, only Smaug can be assigned to [Dale] allies... We need something usable for most of the Shadows. Btw, all cards from the Smaug Shadow could be changed ;).


- These events for Bilbo would be [Dwarven] then?


- I don't like this [Sauron] event at all (changing too much the rules isn't a good idea), instead of which card you want to put this event? The Sauron card itself describes really well his plans and how he manages all this.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 02:15:50 PM by -Enola- »
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March 17, 2016, 06:16:09 PM
Reply #350

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #350 on: March 17, 2016, 06:16:09 PM »
Edited my version of Terrifying Legend above, to make the wording of the Regroup skill much easier to understand.

- Stone Giant minions: Really interesting! Such a new way of playing minions! Of course they'll need playtesting, but seems like a great new form of working with archery. =D>

I believe the pack has 2 solvable problems: 1) they are very expensive and there is only 6 minions in the whole draft, so getting them at time will be difficult (unless you add a way to get them from draw deck), and 2) your draw deck will be discarded very fast by Stone Returns to Earth and the 2 Giants (unless you add a mechanism to get cards back to main deck). Of course, problem #2 can be countered by building really big decks, but that only worsens problem #1. So those mechanisms to get them soon and return discarded cards must be added in this sub-pack (or in another sub-pack of Beatdown pack 3).


I've been toying with an idea... I'd change the archery skill of Boulder Rock a bit: instead of directly "making the Shadow archery total +2", it might allow the FP player to choose instead to allow bearer to fight :twisted:. That can be done like Saruman's Staff or Phial of Galadriel Star-glass, if you interchange the order of the 2 passive senteces in each Giant ("This minion may not..." must be the first):


[1] Boulder Rock [Moria]
Possession
Strength +2  Vitality +2
Bearer must be a [Moria] Giant.
Archery: Discard this possession to make the Free Peoples player choose to either make the minion archery total +2 or remove the first sentence of bearer's game text until the regroup phase.

The text seems long but uses only 6 lines (still has some room for lore text). Since bearer's first sentence can be removed only once, if that happens and the Giant bears more Rocks, all remaining Rocks can be discarded for automatic +2 archery or be left there to add +2 strength each. That strength bonus also will make the idea of allowing the Giant to fight much more fightening (so the chances increase that the FP player will choose to add archery).

Hope this helps.



- [Dwarven] Also a Took: Yes! :up: It'll make Bilbo really an interesting choice for skirmishes. ;D Let it be Dwarven!
- [Dwarven] Pity: :evil: No, this one will be really overpowered. Because can be player from discard. And the idea of playing it from discard is, to allow Bilbo to survive better and win more skirmishes (and remove some doubts by the way). Lamentably seems too perilous for the balance and good playing experience. :(


- Blue Mountains pack: About the [Dwarven] event to attach followers for free, I suggested a way to balance it and would like to hear your opinion ;). In short terms, you need to also discard X cards from hand, which limits your Shadow cards and/or your FP events (Skirmish/Regroup tricks):

"Discard X cards from hand to attach X [Dwarven] followers to your companions (without paying their aid cost) and heal X wounds from [Dwarven] companions."


The pack will probably need a weapon. I believe a "Dwarven Warhammer" would fit well with the theme of the "fierce exiled smiths", a heavy and expensive weapon costing [2] or [3] but with a fixed damage +1 bonus, and some other text. Or a "Dwarven Knife" bearable with another weapon:

[1] Dwarven Knife [Dwarven]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] character.
This weapon may be borne in addition to 1 other hand weapon.
Each minion skirmishing bearer is strength -1.
"'Careful with these. I just had them sharpened.'"

Useful with defender bonuses, and with a Dwarf you want to protect from being swarmed (like Fili the protector). And Dwalin defender +2! (if bearing 2, -2 strength to each minion he faces; as such, can be better on Bilbo's Balin's pack). Might even discard itself to wound an Orc in the skirmish ("Skirmish: Discard this weapon to wound an Orc skirmishing bearer")...


- [Sauron] A Plan Long in the Making: The idea was to include it in either a "Battle of the Five Armies" FP pack, or in a "Sauron Pack 2" pack in a Beatdown or Swarm pack. (I know, none of those packs exists yet.) A Sauron Pack 2 can be based on the skirmish direct wounding [Sauron] Orcs: Orc Soldier, Orc Hunters, Orc War Band and Orc Cutthroat (and Mordor's Strength). I made an armor possession for that purpose, usable by any Orc (like Goblin Footman):

[1] Dol Guldur Armor [Sauron]
Possession • Armor
Strength +1
Bearer must be an Orc.
Response: If bearer is about to take a wound, discard this armor to prevent it.
Skirmish: Remove [2] and discard this armor to wound a character skirmishing bearer.
"'...the gateway to reclaiming the lands of Angmar...'"

A built-in Mordor's Strength (or Whirling Strike), with another skill to prevent a wound (useful against Orcrist, as you want).

About the [Sauron] event A Plan Long in the Making, it only does 5 things and only the last 2 can be considered troublesome:

1.- Adds twilight.
2.- Puts cards on the top of your deck.
3.- Makes players reconcile hand.
4.- Makes cards that must be played at a specific phase (fellowship or shadow) may be played at another phase (maneuver). It's the same as adding each card a text like Long Spear's (but without cost): "You play this card anytime you could play a maneuver event".
5.- Allows special abilities of specific phases (fellowship and shadow) to be used at another phase (maneuver).

Decipher made cards that do all those things, except #5:
1.- No explanation needed.
2.- On Your Doorstep, We Will Meet Again Soon...
3.- Under Foot, Lembas, Lembas Bread, Secluded Homestead...
4.- Great Heart, Long Spear, Dernhelm's Blade, For the Mark...
5.- None (so far as I know)

So the most and perhaps only controversial point is number 5: using special abilities outside their specific phase. So I remove that point. (The reason I added it was to use Shadow abilities like Hatred Rekindled, but considering you can get back the specific cards you want from discard, you won't need Hatred Rekindled to get Orcs from discard).

[2] A Plan Long In The Making [Sauron]
Event • Maneuver
Heal X Free Peoples characters to add X and place X cards from your discard pile on top of your draw deck (except Smaug).
Each player reconciles hand. Players may play cards as if it were the Fellowship or the Shadow phase.
"'Our enemy has summoned his full strength.'"

It's very costly: only [1] and 1 card returned from discard for each character you heal. That means this card will be useless at the early game, because allies and companions must accumulate wounds to be effective. It also costs [2], which means you need to heal 3 or more companions/allies to start adding twilight. And the FP player will know what cards you are returning to deck, so will be warned when deciding what cards should play and what should not (that can represent Gandalf telling them about the coming Army)...

All in all, the FP player gets:
 - a lot of healing,
 - reconciles,
 - can play cards drawn when reconciling.
The Shadow player gets:
 - cards from discard (at a very high price),
 - some twilight to play them (to muster a larger force),
 - some additional twilight the FP player may be adding.

That's all. Decipher created cards twisted the rules even more: A Dark Shape Sprang, Return to its Master, Whisper in the Dark, The Witch King's Beast are some examples.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 02:08:17 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

March 18, 2016, 01:47:16 PM
Reply #351

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #351 on: March 18, 2016, 01:47:16 PM »
- The new Terrifying Legend is more complicated than before, and we can't use it with other Shadows...

- The Boulder Rock is now more complicated. When you propose a card, try to avoid any "or", "and", "either" or so. One simple goal for one card is much more playable and understable rather than complicated cards with subsections.

I will try to have most of the different parts of the movies and the book with 12 Supplementary packs, 3 Beatdown packs and 2 Swarm packs. That's all. If we use the Dol Guldur Armor, it will be in these packs, according to the previous objectives.

- I will probably change the text of Pity for an event using Sting or Noble Intentions (both rarely used).

- Btw, it's a first test for the [Mirkwood] Shadow (I didn't change the [Uruk] template seen behind yet.



And the card of Braga

« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 01:51:03 PM by -Enola- »
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March 18, 2016, 03:41:40 PM
Reply #352

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #352 on: March 18, 2016, 03:41:40 PM »
- Terrifying Legend: The regroup skill was written twice above, sorry :(. The active skill is based on A Dark Shape Sprang, I don't think it is confusing.

No, the passive skill can be used by ANY Shadow (works anytime a FP character is overwhelmed). And the active skill works with Smaug, but all decks have access to Smaug (and he gets relatively cheap at the late game) so it shouldn't be a problem. I believe that having Smaug fighting 1 or 2 times more can be even more useful than Azog Servant of Sauron.

To make the card more useful without Smaug on the board, the trigger of the passive skill might can be changed from "each time a companion or ally is overwhelmed" to "each time a minion kills a character in its skirmish". The normal effect (without Smaug) can be "wound an ally" to counter the Dale allies, while by spotting Smaug would also "discard a possession":

[2] Terrifying Legend [No Culture]
Condition • Support Area
Each time a minion kills a character in its skirmish, you may wound an ally (and discard a possession if you spot Smaug).
Regroup: Exert Smaug twice to suspend this phase and make him participate in one additional assignment and skirmish phase. Then, resume the current phase.
"'Who are you that would stand against me?!'"


The need of a Shadow card to allow Dale allies to fight is reduced significatively by the FP cards that do so: Bard (allows Esgaroth Volunteers), Baïn (allows Bard) and Percy (+ a weapon, allows bearer). If they don't want to fight, you can still wound them with Terrifying Legend (or Narzug).

But a small skill can be added anyway (by removing the lore text): "[Dale] allies may participate is skirmishes." Btw, changed the lore text, because the previous is already on Twisted Gold of Dragon.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

March 18, 2016, 11:25:04 PM
Reply #353

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #353 on: March 18, 2016, 11:25:04 PM »
The effect and the benefits for the other Shadows is too much reduced, I don't think a player who will not play the Smaug Shadow will take this card to counter the [Dale] allies and the [Dale] possessions :(.
The card could be changed with a general effect which would be a bit simpler to use for the Smaug Shadow.

I know Decipher changes the rules with some cards, but they are very rare... I think the easiest way to make cards is to point clearly the goal of a card. Most cards from LOTR TCG have only one goal (and often one simple sentence).
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 11:29:49 PM by -Enola- »
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March 19, 2016, 04:29:28 PM
Reply #354

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #354 on: March 19, 2016, 04:29:28 PM »
- Terrifying Legend: With ANY shadow deck Smaug will appear at site 8 and wreak havoc. With this condiiton, if he kills X characters you will wound any ally X times + discard X possessions, just before site 9 when you need to erase all ally/possession support to defeat Bilbo. If Smaug survives both skirmishes and can exert twice, he'll fight again and probably will kill another guy, then wound another ally + discard another possession...

That's true for all Shadow decks. Besides, any time ANY minion kills a FP guy in a skirmish, you will wound an ally (that limits cannon fodder allies a lot). There's also Alfrid to counter allies, or to return any condition into play. And yes, this condition will be really powerful with the Smaug pack making him appear repeated times, but the same synergy happens when the Sauron pack coincides with the White Council pack.


I've been rethinking the Regroup skill and it should be a Response action, otherwise Bard's regroup skill will prevent it with ease. Bard already has the Black Arrow, and with Kili and Dawn Take You All can prevent Smaug from having spare vitality at regroup (and even from skirmishing).

"Response: If all fierce skirmishes have been resolved, exert Smaug twice to make him participate in one additional assignment and skirmish phase."



- Nenya: Taking only [Gandalf] spells is the simplest way to fix the abuse of AWINL and He Gives Me Courage. :up: But also excludes Former Herald, which is a really important card as the pack doesn't have Spears of Axes to give a permanent reinforce to any companion, except only Gandalf; all other help is temporary: Galadriel and the 2 maneuver events. And while Galadriel stays those 2 events are discarded instead, so those events must have good replaying methods, and Nenya gets back only 1. Before Nenya there was Lindir, who like Galadriel helped in skirmishes and stayed in the board. Fighting allies will be useful, if not necessary, to counter big minions and moreover swarms.

The solution is simple: "Exert Galadriel and add [2] to take a [Gandalf] spell (or Former Herald) from your draw deck into your hand."

Former Herald should have always been a spell: it's aggressive just like the other spells, and though Wise elves weren't wizards they were sorcerers too (users of spiritual knowledge, forces and techniques, that's Tolkien's concept of "magic"). But this forced inclusion should fix that.


Lore text: this point is not significant, but the lore text you chose is already used by Decipher's Nenya. A different quote can be nice for a good bunch of players. Frodo talks about Galadriel's Ring while in the shores of the Anduin (after the attack of the Orcs + Winged Nazgul), and Aragorn tells him to shut up... they were talking about how things are worn down in the world: "'But the wearing is slow in Lórien,' said Frodo. 'The power of the Lady is on it. Rich are the hours, though short they seem, in Caras Galadhon, where Galadriel wields the Elven-ring.'"

We can reduce it to "'The power of the Lady... wields the Elven-ring.'"
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 07:19:00 PM by Durin's Heir »
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March 20, 2016, 06:40:22 AM
Reply #355

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #355 on: March 20, 2016, 06:40:22 AM »
- Terrifying Legend: I propose you to change Wrath of the Dragon instead of Terrifying Legend. The Smaug Shadow can now use this ability every time.

- Nenya: I think [2] and an exert on Balin to have a strength 11 free ally every turn is too much. The Horn of Boromir is really powerful in LOTR TCG and X-listed in all formats (except FOTR). Nenya seems balanced now. The power of the Elven rings is in Gathering of the three Rings.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 11:31:52 AM by -Enola- »
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March 31, 2016, 06:27:07 PM
Reply #356

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #356 on: March 31, 2016, 06:27:07 PM »
I'm sorry for this long absence. I couldn't use my computer (the ac adapter was burned :(), and my health was a bit more stubborn than usually.


- Nenya: Hmm, you are right. Let it as it is! But please consider the lore text suggestion.

- Wrath of the Dragon: Interesting! I like it. But now the Smaug pack won't have a skill to discard [Dwarven] artifacts at Shadow phase, which was an important part of the pack. The solution is adding it to Twisted Gold of Dragon, which still has 2 free lines (or 3 lines if you remove either the lore text, or the words "from play" in the Shadow skill). That should do it.

With the new text, I believe another picture showing Smaug spitting flames will be more according to this new Wrath of the Dragon.


- Terrifying Legend: I still have a discordance with the current Terrifying Legend, because the gametext has no Smaug flavor in my opinion. The active skill mainly does what Bolg's Hunting party did at Esgaroth, which is fine but then the other skill should represent Smaug's character in a much stronger way.

And the passive skill looks very superficial, because it's really hard to trigger: you require a 12+ str minion figthing an ally to get an overwhelming, because all fighting allies will be str 6+: Bard unarmed is 6, Esgaroth Volunteers unarmed is 6, and Baïn (with Percy) + Iron Weapon is 6 too. Then there is Take Up Arms to ruin your goal. Overwheming is hard even to Smaug, due to cards like Thorin + Orcrist, Dori, pumps, other followers... So I'd much rather use those 3 lines for something stronger specific for Smaug, like this:

"Each time Smaug kills a character who is skirmishing him, discard a [Dale] possession or wound an ally twice (except Bard)".

Killing by any means (not only overwhelming) means that if the FP player uses allies or weak companions to face Smaug, you'll discard possessions or kill allies just before the definitive site 9.



- Balin or Blue Mountains pack: I made this card to help the use of Balin, followers, fighting Bilbo, healing and To Me! O My Kinsfolk!:

[1] Dwarven Fiddle [Dwarven]
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf, heal bearer.
Fellowship: Exert bearer to take into hand a non-maneuver [Dwarven] event from your draw deck (limit 1).
"The dark filled all the room, and the fire died down, and the shadows were lost, and still they played on."

There is a really nice part when Dwalin handles a violin (AUJ EE 27:46). Bofur plays a flute, we can make a "Dwarven Flute" instrument possession too.

Each Fiddle player can get only 1 [Dwarven] event per turn. The more Dwarf musicians, more events you will get into hand. You take those events from draw deck only, so to recycle events you'll need to use Balin's skill (which is something you wanted).

Bearer will heal each time a Dwarf joins the Company (including followers). So Balin can return a copy of To Me! O My Kinsfolk! to deck, a Fiddle player can get it to hand, and then use it to replay a Dwarf follower AND heal whatever Dwarf is bearing it (which can be Balin at that right time, to remove his exertion ;)). Therefore followers will get more presence and importance (and Thorin can regulate them), Dwarves will get more healing, To Me! O My Kinsfolk! gets more importance as you wanted...

Of course it can get any other event instead. Like Noble Intentions to protect Bilbo or make him even win skirmishes (and use Sting's skill!), or a [Dwarven] pump make a Dwarf tougher in battle. But those don't play play Dwarves so then the exertion won't be healed by the Fiddle.

The idea of excluding maneuver events is to prevent dangerous tricks like Ancient Knowledge from being abused. All other [Dwarven] events have a moderate impact (even Du Bekâr due to its high cost). You can change it to take a "fellowship or regroup [Dwarven] event" if you want, to also exclude Du Bekâr and pumps.

Hope you like it.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 07:04:21 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 02, 2016, 02:40:19 PM
Reply #357

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #357 on: April 02, 2016, 02:40:19 PM »
I hope your health will get better soon.

I change and make some cards: Pity, Thror's Throne, Northern Slopes, Alfrid, Caught in a Sack (only [Troll] will be not enough used if the Beatdown Pack 1 doesn't appear) and Terrifying Legend. Tell me what you think about them.

I will probably change a bit the cards of the Smaug Shadow soon.
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April 08, 2016, 12:33:12 PM
Reply #358

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #358 on: April 08, 2016, 12:33:12 PM »
I hope your health will get better soon.
Thank you my friend. The same I hope, my health gets sometimes very unstable and that's uncomfortable but doesn't threaten me really. ;)

I change and make some cards: Pity, Thror's Throne, Northern Slopes, Alfrid, Caught in a Sack (only [Troll] will be not enough used if the Beatdown Pack 1 doesn't appear) and Terrifying Legend. Tell me what you think about them.
Those are great, I have only small remarks to do in some cases.

- Thrór's Throne: Simply brilliant!  =D> The FP Arkenstone gets more importance, while the Shadow one gets more power. Btw, I still think the Shadow Arkenstone should be different (but I won't post the supporting reasons right now).

- Terrifying Legend and Alfrid: Both look very good now. :up: Alfrid seems balanced, has good flavor and counters very well the FP side. Terrifying Legend is now much more "Smaug-esque" and punishes both the Company and the allies in different ways (and also incorporates Bolg's assault). :up: :up: :up:

But Terrifying Legend has a small error: the active skill says "and assign this minion to skirmish that ally", but should say "assign that minion".

- Caught in a Sack: Seems very good. But worries me a bit that Azog's Swarm army will be exerting a Demolition Troll to use it... I mean, exerting a minion is balanced for Beatdown shadows, but Swarm shadows should discard a minion to unable a Dwarf to fight (Dwalin for instance). You can even discard Narzug and trigger it. The [Troll] Trolls already discard Orcs to get played, so forcing them to discard another minion would be excessive; on the other hand, Swarm shadows don't have that problem and removing a defender should have the cost of removing also a minion.

A last point: should this event affect Gandalf? Gandalf was always above all enemies' intelligence and tricks (in The Hobbit at least), so perhaps should be only "a [Dwarven] or [Shire] companion".


- Northern Slopes: Very nice idea, I like it A LOT. :up: But it doesn't specify who exerts those characters, it should say "the first Shadow player" or something. Unfortunately that will make the text much longer. You can shorten it by changing "[Dwarven] character" to "Dwarf" (followers can't exert or take wounds), and changing "each time the fellowship moves" to "when the fellowship moves". Anyway, it'll be still too long :(. But a shorter alternative like this should be ok:

"Mountain. Battleground. Shadow: Exert a [Dwarven] character for each Shadow culture you can spot (limit once per turn)."

It can't be abused and any Shadow player can use it ;).


- Pity: The picture is really good. But I miss the replay part, which is very important to make Bilbo's fighting and suriving skill viable. Also I believe it should heal Bilbo, or any companion, but limiting it to [Dwarven] companion seems to me a bit out of context. And it should give strength +3, as he won't kill any minion facing him (and it isn't [Dwarven] to trigger Sting, so Noble Intentions will still have that advantage).



What do you think about the Dwarven Fiddle? You still don't mention anything.

As always, hope this helps.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 08:34:39 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 08, 2016, 01:27:54 PM
Reply #359

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #359 on: April 08, 2016, 01:27:54 PM »
I didn't say anything at the moment, but the [Men] template looks very good on Braga! Likewise, the [Uruk] template looks good on the Mirkwood shadow. :up:

Just noticed, you changed some [Gundabad] cards for [Mirkwood] ones. Ancient Feuds seems great, but might be better by removing [3] instead of [2]: Guard Commander is often played with no other minion, to keep twilight for an easy overwhelm. I know this card has a limit per Dwarf, but if you can repeat this for every Dwarf too cheaply, the effect will be equally devastating (and like Enduring Evil, reducing strength is really good for overwhelming).

Moreover, having multiple copies bypasses the limit (like TMAYOD) which is really perilous, not only in constructed games but also if while drafting the same player gets the 2 copies; making it unique can correct that. But unique or not, it can stack with Smaug pack's Dissension if both packs meet, so raising the cost to [3] will be more balanced.


War for Gold seems great too. The skirmish action will be useful mostly at the end, that's good for flavor. :up:



About the Smaug Shadow, you changed Smaug's Awakening to be an event. That's nice! :up: Now will depend more on Watchful Orc to be played at early game. I only fear that making him strength -5 will be too much, -4 will be more balanced I think: by making him str -5 (str 12), Thorin + Orcrist + 2 [Dwarven] followers (str 13 or 14) will defeat him with ease.

I like that Wrath of the Dragon now allows Smaug to play many conditions from discard. :up: Perhaps it should be non-unique, as they will rarely stack (Smaug'd need to be unwounded at regroup, to exert 4 times). But having many copies in play allows you to protect or replay your conditions much better (one replays the other, if one is discarded).


I think Smaug should be able to discard [Dwarven] artifacts undirectly, as the old version of Wrath of the Dragon did (I think it was "Shadow: Remove a doubt and exert Smaug to make the Free Peoples player discard a [Dwarven] artifact", it can be key at Shadow to play the evil Arkenstone). Twisted Gold of Dragon has still some room to add a skill.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 08:45:27 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X