The Last Homely House
General => Council of Cobra => Topic started by: Gate Troll on October 16, 2008, 11:59:16 AM
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Vote away. If I get a majority in favor of the idea I'll present it to Kralik via PM.
If you pick the third button tell me what you don't understand and I'll explain so you can re-edit your vote.
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It has already been discussed with him by the mods. So far, the answer is "no".
I, for one, am totally AGAINST it, since I think it'll derail to flaming a LOT, and it's just gonna become an excuse to be harsh to other people "But it's a debate Forum!". I honestly don't see a reason why debating topics wouldn't belong in the Council of Cobra, specially think I'm particularly fond of posting not counting towards your total, so only peolpe ACTUALLY INTERESTED post.
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Actually, this has been debated in the mod forum, and the answer is definitely maybe. I'm in favor of it, but I'm not going to repeat the arguments here and restart the debate. Trust me, your mods are arguing about it. :D
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now are we going to start a debate called "should we do a debate forum?" anyway, I'm in favor of it.
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The irony of the debate of whether we should have a debate forum has not been lost.
I am against it, for the reasons F_M gave. Encourage debate and discussion, but an area for insults and offense... [-X
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Yes, but if you don't want to debate in it you don't have to. And tJ, it would not be an area for insults but for sane,
reasonable debate.
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I agree GT that the majority of the time it would be constructive and insightful debate. But I am concerned for anyone who is less... thoughtful than the majority of members on here using it as flamewar central.
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I am thinking you could ban people from it ( like only kralik and dain could do it, unless FM and AD mod it...) for a while if they are acting up,,...
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But bottom line is: why wouldn't debate topics (ar any loose topic that spawned a debate, for instance) fit in the Council of Cobra? This IS a main issue, the way I see it. WHY having a Forum specific for that? Of course, because then we could ban people from IT, and not from the CoC. But then again, those who got banned would be able to use the CoC to "rant" about it, since THAT would be a topic that would fit there nicely enough...
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I am against it, with nothing new to add.
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But bottom line is: why wouldn't debate topics (ar any loose topic that spawned a debate, for instance) fit in the Council of Cobra? This IS a main issue, the way I see it. WHY having a Forum specific for that?
My thoughts exactly. I really don't see the need. If someone's misbehaving in any new forum we created enough to be banned from that specific forum, I would think a short-term ban from ALL forums would be warranted anyway. Thus I don't see any need to create a forum that people could know in the back of their minds would result in, at worst, banning only from that one forum if they misbehaved. Just seems to be inviting trouble to me.
The Council is open to ANYTHING, debates very much included, and has plenty of applicable mods to keep an eye on things. There's a reason I gave it more moderators than any other forum here, because I know there's already more potential for trouble than we likely have elsewhere. Why create ANOTHER location to monitor with its own built-in "get out of jail free" card? No thanks.
That all being said, it IS, as others have mentioned, an issue that's already been discussed by the mods and admins and I'm sure will continue to be re-addressed several times in the future. Neither I nor any other one person have the absolute say in this, but those are my thoughts, for what they're worth.
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=D>
THANK you, Mr. Ironfoot! :D
As for our forumers, instead of asking about a Debate Forum, how 'bout asking for a new Riddle Game? ;)
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Why don't we just make the thread in the mod are visible instead of rehashing all the arguments?
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=D>
THANK you, Mr. Ironfoot! :D
As for our forumers, instead of asking about a Debate Forum, how 'bout asking for a new Riddle Game? ;)
I was on level 45, almost there... :(
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Speaking about that, what was the answer to 50?
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mountain troll
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my vote is against!
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I'm afraid my dear friend Gate troll I must agree with Dain on this one he makes a strong point that it would be more effective to put it in the CoC than to make it a forum all its own. besides why bother arguing over whether or not we should argue in one place or another when there is all this arguing to be done so please just put in the CoC and we can ACTUALLY debate for the sake of debating instead of over where all of the debating should be done. That's my position and also why I am against this ill fated enterprise. >:( :evil:
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But bottom line is: why wouldn't debate topics (ar any loose topic that spawned a debate, for instance) fit in the Council of Cobra? This IS a main issue, the way I see it. WHY having a Forum specific for that? Of course, because then we could ban people from IT, and not from the CoC. But then again, those who got banned would be able to use the CoC to "rant" about it, since THAT would be a topic that would fit there nicely enough...
It would simply be a child board of CoC. It would exist simply as a debate thread storeroom. Posts made in the forums would not count toward your post total. And if you don't want to use it, you don't have to. Did I say you'd be forced to use it? If you don't plan on using it, don't vote. :roll:
Why create ANOTHER location to monitor with its own built-in "get out of jail free" card? No thanks.
I never said it would be separate forum. And I never mentioned anything to do with a 'get out of jail free card', if you will
recall the 'ban from debate forum but not from CoC' idea stemmed from FM, not me. :-S
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But that would be how it'd have to work, to make it fair. And again, why have a child board? Why are "Debates" different from "Open Content Topics"? Then we would have to have 1,000 Child Boards in the CoC, for games, pointless spams, polls, "personal" chatting threads, news, jokes, etc.
The thing is, aside from having a separate forum just for the sake of it ("oh, look, I'm in a Debate Forum..."), NO ONE has given ONE good enough reason to make a case for it, and I have given some to make a case AGAINST it. Instead of simply re-estating you want one, give us good enough reasons to make a motion for it.
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Kralik gave a good reason for it in the mod thread, actually. He said that he wanted to maintain a feel of comradery in the Council of Cobra, and so divisive topics should be in a seperate forum. Also, its cleaner, and its easier for members to use.
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Kralik gave a good reason for it in the mod thread, actually. He said that he wanted to maintain a feel of comradery in the Council of Cobra, and so divisive topics should be in a seperate forum. Also, its cleaner, and its easier for members to use.
Actually, to clarify, I wasn't necessarily endorsing a debate forum -- I was just posing the question. As it stands it seems like many more people are opposed to it, and for good reason. However, I am concerned about members such as SM that are shying away from TLHH due to its increasingly volatile nature. :'(
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it's true, people definitely are shying away, and it's hard to know what to do about it. as for SM, she has always been frustrated with the debates that have gone on, even at CC. finally she decided to stay out of debates altogether, but, as i'm sure some of you know, it's nigh impossible to not see whats going on in those threads. i just hope more members don't leave because of it.
-mm
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But that would be how it'd have to work, to make it fair. And again, why have a child board? Why are "Debates" different from "Open Content Topics"? Then we would have to have 1,000 Child Boards in the CoC, for games, pointless spams, polls, "personal" chatting threads, news, jokes, etc.
The thing is, aside from having a separate forum just for the sake of it ("oh, look, I'm in a Debate Forum..."), NO ONE has given ONE good enough reason to make a case for it, and I have given some to make a case AGAINST it. Instead of simply re-estating you want one, give us good enough reasons to make a motion for it.
1. Keeps debates contained in one place for easy reference. Allows a stickied thread with a list of dos and don'ts.
2. Keeps things organized, possible debate clubs.
3. I'd also ask that a user could be able to 'turn off' the child board in his/her profile if that person so wished.
4. People wouldn't have to post there, if someone didn't like what was going on they could wait until either people had exhausted themselves or the mods had stepped in after it turned into one-line insults and/or graphic pictures.
Finally I'd like to say this: The Dead pile has less purpose than this would. The Dead Pile surves to put all our mistakes, problems, and disagreements where everyone can see them, which seems more harmful than helpful. Posts in the Dead Pile always get a lot of views mainly because the user viewing it thinks "oh, I wonder what somebody said that was bad enough to land here". That may be part of what is keeping SM away. Just my two cents. :up:
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Btw, thanks for bringing this up, the Dead Pile was made visible as an experiment, but I think it's long time it was hidden again. We already raised the issue with the Admins.
Back on topic:
1. Keeps debates contained in one place for easy reference. Allows a stickied thread with a list of dos and don'ts.
You can bookmark your favorite debates just as easily. We already have that, with no need of a child board for having it.
2. Keeps things organized, possible debate clubs.
You can also do that yourself by not allowing the "bumped" topics to say on top every time. Clubs are just... a bad idea, from our personal prior experience, believe me. Also, "clubs" will form anyway in every debate, since people will side with whoever believe what they do. And it's easier this way, since we might agree on one subject but not on another, and belonging to the same club would end up being awkward.
3. I'd also ask that a user could be able to 'turn off' the child board in his/her profile if that person so wished.
We also happen to be able to not access those threads, but a lot of users end up doing it anyway, it wouldn't solve the issue.
4. People wouldn't have to post there, if someone didn't like what was going on they could wait until either people had exhausted themselves or the mods had stepped in after it turned into one-line insults and/or graphic pictures.
The idea is not having to get down to this point.
I understand that you'd want to advocate having a child board for your favorite types of "open content" topics, but then, so would everyone else, and it's not fair to do that to only some users, and it's not easy to go splitting the CoC in about 6-7 boards, because things would get REALLY confusing as to wether some topics would have to go, and you guys would end up having us mods running around like ants moving stuff back and forth, ASIDE from moderating. It's just not worth the trouble, for very little gain.
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How about this...
We agree on a topic for discussion/debate, sticky it in the Council of Cobra, and agree to leave it there for a week. The Council mods can keep a close eye on it, and it would keep things organised.
A compromise?
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Sounds good. :up:
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Why are people so insistent on making debate topics so "special"? Why do people feel compelled to seperate them from other topics? I really don't get what all the fuss is about. :-?
Am I outright opposed to creating a new forum or special threads for special debate topics? No. But I don't get why it's such a big issue and why some folks feel we need to do so. What would it accomplish? What is the point?
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My thoughts exactly.
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Why are people so insistent on making debate topics so "special"? Why do people feel compelled to seperate them from other topics? I really don't get what all the fuss is about. :-?
Am I outright opposed to creating a new forum or special threads for special debate topics? No. But I don't get why it's such a big issue and why some folks feel we need to do so. What would it accomplish? What is the point?
Same point as The House of Tom Bombadil (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php?board=15.0). Organization, a sticky with rules, keeping things from getting buried ten pages deep in the Council, I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
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i'm with Dain on this. the problem won't be solved by organization and sub-forums. the problem will be solved when people start respecting what other people say and valuing their opinions. that's the only way we'll be able to continue to get new members, and keep the ones we have.
-mm
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Why are people so insistent on making debate topics so "special"? Why do people feel compelled to seperate them from other topics? I really don't get what all the fuss is about. :-?
Am I outright opposed to creating a new forum or special threads for special debate topics? No. But I don't get why it's such a big issue and why some folks feel we need to do so. What would it accomplish? What is the point?
Same point as The House of Tom Bombadil (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php?board=15.0). Organization, a sticky with rules, keeping things from getting buried ten pages deep in the Council, I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
Nope, not the same no. Roleplaying and General Topics are by no means the same thing. And to see what I mean, dig down a little in the Council, you'll find posts on Order of the Stick, D&D, etc, all in the Council, where they belong. Now, if you want to CREATE an RP'ing game about LotR, THEN that's where House kicks in. If you want to talk abou the LotR tabletop RPG system, that's in the Council. It's pretty self-explanatory, actually.
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I don't think a debate sub-forum is necessary. There are some who love to argue over mundane subjects, and again, there are those who don't. If you want to debate, just say so in your thread, and good luck with that.