The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Bag End => Topic started by: Smeagollum on May 23, 2009, 02:11:10 AM
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Hi People,
I mailed Fishfleas to ask him about the status of the new to form PC. Unfortunately it seems that he steps out of buidling up a pc. here's his mail:
Hey man,
feel free to repost this on the forum if you like. I've recently been asked to possibly take a step up in my involvement with the SW PC. I would love to see the LOTR TCG take some shape, but ultimately the interest I had seems to wane back and forth. SOmetimes it's hot, sometimes it's cold. Ultimately I need to have consistant input and help in making it work. Could I still head this up? Yes I could, but I'ld only now be able to say i could guide it from a top level position. I wouldn't be able to do as much grunt work, as I initially thought I would. I still have my ideas on how to address the issues in the game. I think there is alot of merit in my plan of action. If people would like to see what I had in mind, then that is great. It was definately going to take a shift in thinking, as the only way to get the old players back, is to give them something they WANT to play with. That means the newer stuff is important to consider, but ultimately you've got to target getting the old players back. They are the ones that will bring success to the PC, as they have the cards.
So that all being said. I may be getting a new job that will give me more time to work on things, but I'm not sure yet if I'll get that. So unless I find out otherwise, I'm going to have to step out of the spotlight on this project. At least as a major player. I'm more than willing to give input and discuss ideas with people on messenger. I won't however have time to discuss much on the forums.
Sorry for that news, and if things change, I will let you all know. However for now, this is how it will have to be.
So I'm afraid where back to the beginning and that's why I like to ask your permission to pick this up. I've got some ideas, but I also would need your ideas. I would like to have Olorin (as creator of the austrian format), Thranduil (creative), SOP (moderator) and TheJord involved. I hope they would like this as well as I hope you will all. And maybe others would like to attend as well (Dain Ironfoot, Battlewarg?)
What I don't want to do is to contact Decipher for their permission. I contacted them once and I'm still waiting for their reply. And hearing other experiences on that I don't think Decipher will border to contact us. First important thing I think is to form a committee. Secondly to form a plan with targets like a new Ruling document (to repair some problems that are playing now with the objective to not ban any cards), a tourneycircuit, devoloping new cards, etc.
If whe have a plan on paper we still can contact Decipher, Tolkiens heirs or who- or whatever.
So please let me hear within a week what you all think. Please don't pm me, but add your opinion to this topic.
Kind regards,
Jw
The idea so far (thx for the input Jerba)
Red = Temporary
Blue = Will be asked within 3 weeks
Green = Asked and confirmed
Brown = Asked and pending on anwser
The Returned High King of Gondor: Should be elected
The Steward of Gondor: Smeagollum
Tournament Advocate (In charge of Tourneys and ratings system):
Online Play Coordinator (Works with tournament coordinator, or this could be part of Tourny advocates job, to organize online tournaments and ratings):
Rules Wizard, Giver of Council (In charge of rules questions and leader of any councils called to resolve serious rules questions: erratas, bans, restrictions, etc. Develops CRD etc. Works with the tournament directors on rules questions): HawkeyeSPF
Players Advocate (keeps the pulse of the players community. The official go-between from the PC to the players. Reveals the spoilers, runs polls, contests, etc): Dain Ironfoot
International Coordinator (Works with Tourney and Players Advocates to maintain and coordinate all events and reach out to all players' groups): Gil-Estel
Representative Moderaters team:
Behind the scenes teams and committees:
Graphic design team (Designs the templates and finishes the V-cards, errata slips, creates the pdf documents for the CRD, rules, etc.): Henk Maul, Kralik
Design Team (Designs V-Card sets and themes. Hopefully 3 sets a year):
Smeagollum (if you want have me [-o<, Tranduil, Foresight, Battlewarg,
Playtesting Team (Works with the design team to playtest V-Sets before they are released. Can be done in playgroups or via SdA, gccg, lackey, etc.):
Format Committees (Every member will have 2 formats for which he will be co-responsable, to insure that cards are refreshing each format and that the formats are balanced), Responsable for errata's or other changes on cards: HawkeyeSPF, Olorin, Elrohir, Disco Stu, Jerba, King89Elessar's Socks,
Moderators team: sickofpalantirs, NBarden, AgentDrake, lem0nhead, TheJord, bibfortuna25, NBarden, Elf_Lvr, Thranduil, Elessar's Socks,
People asked if they want to be involved and how: MR. Lurtzy, ,
And uh...: I need the French, The Polish, The Spanish, Australians, Brazillians, Americans to be involved as well. Please let me know if you're from one of these nationalities and would like to be involved!!!!!!
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I know ES is working on a rough draft of a CRD
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Yeah, we're working on setting up something more "official" here at TLHH. Just give Kralik and the mods a little while longer.... 8-)
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I know ES is working on a rough draft of a CRD
Who's ES?
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Someone who likes ramen and cake!!
I've been taking note of rulings that might need clarification (mostly based on threads here), although it'd be great if there was actually a way to come to an agreement on these things.
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Someone who likes ramen and cake!!
I've been taking note of rulings that might need clarification (mostly based on threads here), although it'd be great if there was actually a way to come to an agreement on these things.
I totally agree. Maybe it's an idea to pick a day and time to discuss things on the chat (where we can all login. Then we could deside about how to go further on). Only problem with that is that communicating by mail & chat can be dangerous as you can't see what somebody exactly means (I already noticed that myself...I'm very blunt in my statements..). So it should be followed up by comming together during a meeting after a tournament.
Question: Were you an official judge? Because if not it might be wise to bring in some official judges?
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I'd highly recommend to get HawkeyeSPF into the boat. - and yeah... ES is also very fine! perhaps also Leokula... if he had time left... and I would also vote for Disco Stu.
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Question: Were you an official judge? Because if not it might be wise to bring in some official judges?
No, I'm not. If Bib or Merrick were around maybe these could simply be forwarded to them. Otherwise I was thinking once we have an appropriate forum for this (or hijack the Archives), the community could figure things out. Might not be the best way to go about it, but it'd be the closest to legitimacy I can think of. It'd still fall under TLHH house rules, though.
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Do we know referees who are still active? I know one, but sometimes I feel embarrashed when I say something here, because he explained me something and then after debating here it shows that he was wrong. So I m not sure if he would be an option. Besides that he's very lazy and I'm still waiting for a tournamentreport he would make.
Pls inform me more about Disco Stu and Hawkeye. I only know Disco from the Amsterdam tournament.
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Big surprise. Yet again, we are shown that the game is going nowhere. ](*,)
I am heartened by two thing here, A) The realization that Decipher is useless and has no interest in us; lets get a move on. We're the game, if it will be saved and continued it is up to us. Finally. =D>
B) That TLHH is doing something. I hope it works out.
I offer my help in anyway its needed. I realize I'm not that up to date, but as fishfleas pointed out in the "Farewell Address" I'm exactly the kind of player we need to get back into the game: Those that stopped playing around ROTK or War of the Ring block. We don't have much of the new stuff, but still love the game. I'll do what I can to help.
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Someone who likes ramen and cake!!
I've been taking note of rulings that might need clarification (mostly based on threads here), although it'd be great if there was actually a way to come to an agreement on these things.
I totally agree. Maybe it's an idea to pick a day and time to discuss things on the chat (where we can all login. Then we could deside about how to go further on). Only problem with that is that communicating by mail & chat can be dangerous as you can't see what somebody exactly means (I already noticed that myself...I'm very blunt in my statements..). So it should be followed up by comming together during a meeting after a tournament.
Question: Were you an official judge? Because if not it might be wise to bring in some official judges?
I think what's happening here is that TLHH is doing its own thing and not intending to take over officially. More like a house format. But we have arguably the largest LotR TCG playing community that we could get some momentum behind us and possibly get the rules adopted universally.
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But why not develop something, make it pretty official and make it the players commitee. We have active players indeed, but let's debate what should be the main goal of a PC, what should be in a PC and start by being an authority in 'our' community. Allthough it is hard to realise that, because we are all a stubborn bunch of people...haha.
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I think a House Committee dedicated to our group will be perfect. Lets get our "House" in order and then worry about everyone else first. We need a banner to get behind first, and since we're all here on TLHH and the Mods have the most credibility I would support a "House Format"
When can we expect details or "release" date?
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I'd highly recommend to get HawkeyeSPF into the boat. - and yeah... ES is also very fine! perhaps also Leokula... if he had time left... and I would also vote for Disco Stu.
Not only for me but for the whole game it is important to get the right guys for this job. If a guy has a lot of posts or is a mod does not mean he is the right dude for the job. I recommended the guys above coz I know/believe that guys would do that job best. And the number of that "council" or "PC" must be few - otherwise we won't come to an end.
Another point: I am really very disappointed that a few "elven fanatics" started a public discussion here DURING introducing the Austrian Format. I would have apprecciated that everyone looks at the rules I set up, says "fine" and started building decks... so to get that format settled. - But NO: now we have a discussion about several cards - I mean, this discussion could have been held a few weeks later when everything was introduced to the people here... now something happened I tried to prevent: confusion. Now, where all polls have been held (e.g. on this board now Namarie is X-listed for sure too) I wish to get back and join that format as it was thought in the origins and don't try - while introducing - to discuss, change, etc. it. - LATER will be time for it.
Olorin - the wise Istari :P - has spoken - End!
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Like Socrates I naturally distrust anyone that calls him self wise.....:D
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Like Socrates I naturally distrust anyone that calls him self wise.....:D
Ah my froggy-friend... it was YOU who called me once like that :P
Olorin, wise Istari...
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ah, the impression my words make....keep them in mind young padawan, all of them.....
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ah, the impression my words make....keep them in mind young padawan, all of them.....
oh that little force-abusing dutch-frog... seen to much star wars :P
yap... I remember things very good...
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:-? Another PC? How many do we have by now?
@Olorin: The Austria Format Rulings posted here were different than it is everywhere else. Bye the way: you never told me about changes...
Oh, and it was me who started a poll. And I do not think it was a mistake so far. Frenzy of arrows is a such poor card..
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It's not ANOTHER one. We don't have ANY yet.... Thats the trouble.
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I know, but we have started several ones... like the white council etc...
Does anyone know contact adresses or homepages of Chinese or japanese playerships? They should be know too about our discussions.
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You're right. Many have tried to do something. We need to start the process HERE. We at TLHH need our own format. And from there we can start on the erratas, bans, restrictions, virtualizations, or whatever. We are here, we care, we play, we are the only one's that will take care of us. So lets do it folks.
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Wow.. didn't read one evening nothing and then those responses..
The only thing I want to do is make something happen which we are talking about for a very long time.. actually since Ages End.
So what I want to achieve is to bring a good bunch of people together (especially people who have a different point of view then I have). This must be a small group and from there on building up an organisation. When this is done I gladly will leave the pc and commit me to gamedesign & developping, because that's what I think is the biggest fun in this game: using immagination, fantasy and creativeness. I think I can do this job, but it's up to you people if you want it or not.
Do I have experience with forming committee's. Well sort of. In 1993 I became a waterpolotrainer (youth) and I build up a whole youth department. In 1999 (after my pupils became 4th of our country) I left this club and went to another club where I did the same. When I returned 4 years ago to my old club everything was gone (the whole structure I had setup, the trainers, the chilldren). There were no men and no womanteams. I build this again and now there are 2 men teams, one womanteam, there's a wpc, there are 3 under 12 teams. There are 6 trainers. But thing is I'm only good in starting things up in the first 2 years after that someone else have to continue it. And oh actually building up this departmen meant that the club was financially safed (though I'm a disaster about financial and economics).
So just tell me what you want? I'm at your service (Yes Gil: Pim. And no I'm no fan of the man, though I liked this sentence)
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Yes, there needs to be a small committee that is based here on TLHH. The legitimacy will come from having the TLHH big names attached in various ways. We have to have built in respect. There also has to be a product to show. Something to launch. A CRD would be great. Also, some promo items like deck box covers will give us something fun to give out:
http://www.swccgpc.com/downloads/category.php?id=1 (http://www.swccgpc.com/downloads/category.php?id=1)
A catchy name would also be great, but it needs to show the roots here in TLHH. Who is with us? TLHH PC? You interested?
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I would be interested. :up:
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Reposted:
I suggest:
PC Chair or Steward (ala Gondor)
Vice-Chair (or Vice-Steward)
Tournament Advocate -- In charge of Tourneys and ratings system.
Online Play Coordinator -- Works with tournament coordinator, or this could be part of Tourny advocates job, to organize online tournaments and ratings.
Rules Advocate or Rules Wizard, Giver of Council -- In charge of rules questions and leader of any councils called to resolve serious rules questions: erratas, bans, restrictions, etc. Develops CRD etc. Works with the tournament directors on rules questions.
Players Advocate -- keeps the pulse of the players community. The official go-between from the PC to the players. Reveals the spoilers, runs polls, contests, etc.
International Coordinator -- Works with Tourney and Players Advocates to maintain and coordinate all events and reach out to all players’ groups.
Behind the scenes teams and committees:
Graphic design team -- Designs the templates and finishes the V-cards, errata slips, creates the pdf documents for the CRD, rules, etc.
Design Team -- Designs V-Card sets and themes. Hopefully 3 sets a year.
Playtesting Team -- Works with the design team to playtest V-Sets before they are released. Can be done in playgroups or via SdA, gccg, lackey, etc.
Format Committees--probably a committtee for each format, to insure that cards are refreshing each format and that the formats are balanced.
I propose people can have positions and be in committees too, even in more than one. The important part is that work gets done.
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Do we know referees who are still active? I know one, but sometimes I feel embarrashed when I say something here, because he explained me something and then after debating here it shows that he was wrong. So I m not sure if he would be an option. Besides that he's very lazy and I'm still waiting for a tournamentreport he would make.
Pls inform me more about Disco Stu and Hawkeye. I only know Disco from the Amsterdam tournament.
Hi Smeagollum -
As a player I started with The Two Towers set and was hooked. I played the game competitively both in real life and online tournaments until the players disappeared in my area and LotROnline lost official support. I still have all my cards, including a full playset of all cards through Black Rider (I have enough of sets 13 and beyond to make any deck necessary as well).
As a volunteer, I was a Rider of Rohan/dAgent by the time Return of the King came out and I helped judge the World Championships at GenCon in Indianapolis in 2004, in addition to events at ComicCon, Origins, and WizardWorld Chicago 2004. I was also recognized by Decipher for my volunteer efforts as a top dAgent Rookie in 2004.
I know the rules inside and out, and while I was never a playtester, I feel I have a complete understanding of the direction the game's designers wanted to go (Evan Lorentz and co., not Brad Defruiter). I am good friends with a number of the game's top volunteers, players, and playtesters from its heyday and can depend on them to support the game through rules discussions and design strategy.
As someone with an interest in the game, I would like to see the player base revived, through whatever means are necessary, be it a "reboot" or any other idea - WHATEVER IT TAKES.
So yeah, that's me.
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+1 for HawkeyeSPF to be involved in all this. :up:
Playtesting Team -- Works with the design team to playtest V-Sets before they are released. Can be done in playgroups or via SdA, gccg, lackey, etc.
Just a note: of these three, only in Lackey could one add virtual sets easily. SdA has set names locked (some which are incorrect/unused) and certain quirks with crashing if two players do not have identical datafiles. GCCG would require the cooperation of wlk, which might not be an issue, but he would have to agree to any additions.
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Thanks Kralik, thats good to know. Perhaps you just signed up as the online advocate? :-k
HawkeyeSPF, I'm glad your dedicated to the cause. I hope Smeagollum taps you and your contacts.
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Reposted:
I suggest:
PC Chair or Steward (ala Gondor)
Vice-Chair (or Vice-Steward)
Tournament Advocate -- In charge of Tourneys and ratings system.
Online Play Coordinator -- Works with tournament coordinator, or this could be part of Tourny advocates job, to organize online tournaments and ratings.
Rules Advocate or Rules Wizard, Giver of Council -- In charge of rules questions and leader of any councils called to resolve serious rules questions: erratas, bans, restrictions, etc. Develops CRD etc. Works with the tournament directors on rules questions.
Players Advocate -- keeps the pulse of the players community. The official go-between from the PC to the players. Reveals the spoilers, runs polls, contests, etc.
International Coordinator -- Works with Tourney and Players Advocates to maintain and coordinate all events and reach out to all players’ groups.
Behind the scenes teams and committees:
Graphic design team -- Designs the templates and finishes the V-cards, errata slips, creates the pdf documents for the CRD, rules, etc.
Design Team -- Designs V-Card sets and themes. Hopefully 3 sets a year.
Playtesting Team -- Works with the design team to playtest V-Sets before they are released. Can be done in playgroups or via SdA, gccg, lackey, etc.
Format Committees--probably a committtee for each format, to insure that cards are refreshing each format and that the formats are balanced.
I propose people can have positions and be in committees too, even in more than one. The important part is that work gets done.
Souds good. Actually I would like that one of the people who's in a specific team get into the council als representative for that team. That will make sure that there will be contincincy if someone decides to stop. Because his team will deliver a new representative.
Do we know referees who are still active? I know one, but sometimes I feel embarrashed when I say something here, because he explained me something and then after debating here it shows that he was wrong. So I m not sure if he would be an option. Besides that he's very lazy and I'm still waiting for a tournamentreport he would make.
Pls inform me more about Disco Stu and Hawkeye. I only know Disco from the Amsterdam tournament.
Hi Smeagollum -
As a player I started with The Two Towers set and was hooked. I played the game competitively both in real life and online tournaments until the players disappeared in my area and LotROnline lost official support. I still have all my cards, including a full playset of all cards through Black Rider (I have enough of sets 13 and beyond to make any deck necessary as well).
As a volunteer, I was a Rider of Rohan/dAgent by the time Return of the King came out and I helped judge the World Championships at GenCon in Indianapolis in 2004, in addition to events at ComicCon, Origins, and WizardWorld Chicago 2004. I was also recognized by Decipher for my volunteer efforts as a top dAgent Rookie in 2004.
I know the rules inside and out, and while I was never a playtester, I feel I have a complete understanding of the direction the game's designers wanted to go (Evan Lorentz and co., not Brad Defruiter). I am good friends with a number of the game's top volunteers, players, and playtesters from its heyday and can depend on them to support the game through rules discussions and design strategy.
As someone with an interest in the game, I would like to see the player base revived, through whatever means are necessary, be it a "reboot" or any other idea - WHATEVER IT TAKES.
So yeah, that's me.
Sounds to me that you need to be involved!
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Sorry for not seeing this sooner, this is what I get for not looking at the Bag End forum most of the time! #-o
I definitely want this to happen, and I'm very happy to be involved. What I think is most important for this to work is the TLHH admin to be directly involved, because this is the most authority that it looks like we're going to get.
Also, if it's going to truly be a "forum effort", I think that the whole forum should be able to get involved and that the positions should probably elected (in an election run by the admin).
I really hope this finally happens [-o<, and thank you Smeagollum for bringing this up! =D>
Thranduil
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Like Socrates I naturally distrust anyone that calls him self wise.....:D
Totally oftopic!! But like Gil I studied History as well... He finnished.. I did not ](*,)
Hey Gil, who was the man again who said to Alexander the great: you are standing in my light
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Sorry for not seeing this sooner, this is what I get for not looking at the Bag End forum most of the time! #-o
I definitely want this to happen, and I'm very happy to be involved. What I think is most important for this to work is the TLHH admin to be directly involved, because this is the most authority that it looks like we're going to get.
Also, if it's going to truly be a "forum effort", I think that the whole forum should be able to get involved and that the positions should probably elected (in an election run by the admin).
I really hope this finally happens [-o<, and thank you Smeagollum for bringing this up! =D>
Thranduil
You're welcome Mr T ;)
As you can see I'm making teams and from there I want to have a representative in the council. In the long term people should vote for them. But to get things started I have some names in my head for some of the positions. Like you I want to have as much people from the forum involved. The can come into specific teams.
To get this pc realised I'll pronounced myself as a temp steward. I'll quit the job after it has been setup. From then people should be able to condidate themself for an election.
I hope and think you agree how I'm doing so far?
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Hi JW (Smeagollum) and all the others,
I worked with the Star Wars Graphics and design team for a while and designed quite a bit of their virtual sets, packages etc. I also designed several "New" cards which I would like to see in print (Even send a few to Brad the Fruiter; fat load of good that did me...Grump!).
I would be willing to assist the counsil in that capacity again (I used to be a Graphic Designer and I like the work) but due to work/ home considerations I have limited time.
Let me know what you need/ think.
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Hi JW (Smeagollum) and all the others,
I worked with the Star Wars Graphics and design team for a while and designed quite a bit of their virtual sets, packages etc. I also designed several "New" cards which I would like to see in print (Even send a few to Brad the Fruiter; fat load of good that did me...Grump!).
I would be willing to assist the counsil in that capacity again (I used to be a Graphic Designer and I like the work) but due to work/ home considerations I have limited time.
Let me know what you need/ think.
Hi People this guy is Henk Maul. He's very appreciated friend of mine! I really want him in the team I've put him so far (which I will ask him this weekend personally during a match with Star Wars mini's :)
Oh can someone please get this topic sticked?
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I know, but we have started several ones... like the white council etc...
Does anyone know contact adresses or homepages of Chinese or japanese playerships? They should be know too about our discussions.
It always have to start with a small group. As soon as we are organized we can offer other playergroups to jump in.
First: Organize
Second: Vision
Third: How can we achieve in a specific period of time
Fourth: Ask commitment other playergroups
Five: When everything is set and we have commitment we need to contact Deciphet, New Line cinema and the heirs of Tolkien. We've to ask their permission to become official. If they don't respond (we write an official letter to them. Telling who we are, what we do, wich commitments we have and what we want from them and we ask them to anwser with a specific short time otherwise we concider it as that they agree) then we concider it as not a denial and we become official. If there's objection then we stay officious.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence!
I personally think we're making this way too complicated. Informing Decipher that we would like to alter the text of existing cards in nice but there is very little they can do about it as long as we clearly state that we're in no way affiliated with D.
Making new cards and possibly new images, now that's a completely new bowl of wax and requires lots of licenses which I assume will be too costly for a fanbased initiative.
If we look at the SW thing however, the PC could keep operating even though WotC has the SW license as long as they left the images alone. Since the first objective of the PC is to clarify existing cards and/ or make old cards playable again, I don't see a problem yet.
If later on there is so much of a fanbase because of this effort that new cards ar in order, then we could always look into the licensing options again.
I suggest first tackling the daunting task of making existing cards playable again and then look for the production of new cards.
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Right on Legosmurf. One step at a time. The main thing right now should be working on TLHH standard format, which can include x-list, restrict-list, and errata'd cards.
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I concur with legosmurf. Lets not worry about being official in the eyes of decipher, new line or whoever. Not important at this point. As long as we don't touch the images we'll be fine for now. Honestly, if we did mess with images I doubt it would matter. Lets start with getting the environment stablized and maybe get out a small 10 card set of virtual cards of existing, easy to get cards.
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As Far as images go, I think we can get away with old cards with new culture symbols (Old sauron/ dunland etc) or else we can solve this in text by stating that card x can be played in an y culture deck (with the necessary errata of course!)
I think that with that we'll have our hands full. As I said before I think I can come up with appropriate templates for these "Virtual" cards.
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As Far as images go, I think we can get away with old cards with new culture symbols (Old sauron/ dunland etc) or else we can solve this in text by stating that card x can be played in an y culture deck (with the necessary errata of course!)
I think that with that we'll have our hands full. As I said before I think I can come up with appropriate templates for these "Virtual" cards.
Adapting the new cultures to the old cultures would be a wonderful virtual card function. Not to do away with the new cultures or to even mingle them, but to add possibilites to the old cultures that haven't seen a card in ages. Dunland, Moria, and Sauron come to mind. I really don't think anyone will come after us for adjusting the existing templates for use as virtual cards.
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Just saw my name up here - sounds like a great idea, and I hope it will be able to work. I've seen some that seem to.
As for the cultures... Honestly, my thought is to keep the cultures as they are (if possible, although cards that need errata anyway could have their culture re-examined) and have the cultures gain support through Development's sets when we're ready to do that.
That said, I personally have Lackey and GCCG, but no other program. Obviously, Lackey would be incredibly easy to modify - it's designed to do so, after all. GCCG, on the other hand, in any case would need us to know who uses the Virtual Cards and who doesn't - in order to play with the people that don't fairly.
What I'd do, at least if/until an official update is put into it, is have two folders for images - one with the virtual cards and one with the original version of those cards. The player would simply have to replace when they switch to playing with/without virtual cards.
Personally, my goal would be to remove the X-list for every format. I'm not including the set-wide bans, but to errata the cards that have been banned (as well as some that are simply way too weak - TWoaL, O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! thanks to alternate RBs are my main thoughts in that area). I know it may not be possible, but I'd try to give it a fair shot.
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As for the cultures... Honestly, my thought is to keep the cultures as they are (if possible, although cards that need errata anyway could have their culture re-examined) and have the cultures gain support through Development's sets when we're ready to do that.
I agree leaving them as is. With virtualization we can add cards to the old cultures and bring them up to speed with the new cultures too.
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I'm sorry, but I really don't want old cultures being brought "up to speed." Keep the new cultures as the powerful ones that have to face things like Gil-Galad, HKotN. I would still like new [Sauron], [Moria], and [Isengard] cards, but I would much rather have these cards stay in the same power range as cards from the first few sets. In other words, I wouldn't like to see the old cultures mixed with the new, or made as powerful as the new, but rather just introduce some more cards and strategies that can be played in fellowship block, towers block, etc. without completely paving over fellowships.
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I can see your argument. However, I think rotations will determine if they need be brought up to speed or not. If the rotations are kept the same then you're probably right. However, if set rotations change then cards might have to be changed...
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The Leadership should keep our community together and mend current ruling and card problems. The creation of new cards bring a lot of new problems which we can not handle yet, I think.
I welcome your initiative and force! =D>
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The Leadership should keep our community together and mend current ruling and card problems. The creation of new cards bring a lot of new problems which we can not handle yet, I think.
I welcome your initiative and force! =D>
Thx! Agree! One step at the time. First we have to get the pc on the rail. Step 5 is step 5 and not step 1. I think people, including legosmurf misunderstood what I was trying to say.
First things on the rail. Then commitment and devoloping things further out. And after everything is solid we always can get to the point of license-issues, because in the end we need support or at least the approval to get everything official. This proces can be a very long proces.
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I agree that creating new cards isn't the first step we should take. It would however be possible to create a (adjusted for the old powerbase/ playtype) new Orc card to say a Moria or Sauron card. This way we give new blood to the old cultures without creating new cards (and possibly getting in licensing trouble over this).
The problem of course is how to create a kind of translation table which suggest relative power between the old and new sets and what needs to happen to a new card to become usable as an old card (In fact you create two cards which can't be used at the same time; you either use the old or the new version in the apprpriate deck!) and visa versa!
I suggest humble that we set up a card selecting that we would like to convert c.q. errata and determine its relative strenght. Then we can make adjustments etc. accordingly (Pretty much the way I would convert a player character from one game system to another. As soon as we have a result for those cards, those of course will have to be analysed to weight the results.
An example: Frenzy of Arrows is a much hated problem-card but the errata is comepletely bogus and unusable. We could solve this by converting the old Moria archers to the new orc culture. I would still suggest a cap on the card of an additional +2 archery (So to a max of +4 when spotting a follower). I'm not suggestion that this should be the solution that the PC takes but just giving an example of how converted cards could help solve present problems in the recent sets. By translating new cards to old cultures (with appropriate adaptaions you also breath new life into the old cultures without (technically) creating new cards thereby (possibly) avoiding licensing problem.
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wow - things went back to life! :up:
i'd call myself, if it's ok for the community!, for the format commitees, because i think that i got a lot of experience in this part. i played many lotr games for more then 5 years (until now) & faced every deck. that gives me the "force" to check the balances of certain formats.
king89
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wow - things went back to life! :up:
i'd call myself, if it's ok for the community!, for the format commitees, because i think that i got a lot of experience in this part. i played many lotr games for more then 5 years (until now) & faced every deck. that gives me the "force" to check the balances of certain formats.
king89
So you want to be in? Just pm what you want to do and where you think you give your best effort into!
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I agree! Just sign on and we can get this train moving (finally!!!)
wow - things went back to life! :up:
i'd call myself, if it's ok for the community!, for the format commitees, because i think that i got a lot of experience in this part. i played many lotr games for more then 5 years (until now) & faced every deck. that gives me the "force" to check the balances of certain formats.
king89
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Do we know referees who are still active? I know one, but sometimes I feel embarrashed when I say something here, because he explained me something and then after debating here it shows that he was wrong. So I m not sure if he would be an option. Besides that he's very lazy and I'm still waiting for a tournamentreport he would make.
Pls inform me more about Disco Stu and Hawkeye. I only know Disco from the Amsterdam tournament.
Hi Smeagollum -
As a player I started with The Two Towers set and was hooked. I played the game competitively both in real life and online tournaments until the players disappeared in my area and LotROnline lost official support. I still have all my cards, including a full playset of all cards through Black Rider (I have enough of sets 13 and beyond to make any deck necessary as well).
As a volunteer, I was a Rider of Rohan/dAgent by the time Return of the King came out and I helped judge the World Championships at GenCon in Indianapolis in 2004, in addition to events at ComicCon, Origins, and WizardWorld Chicago 2004. I was also recognized by Decipher for my volunteer efforts as a top dAgent Rookie in 2004.
I know the rules inside and out, and while I was never a playtester, I feel I have a complete understanding of the direction the game's designers wanted to go (Evan Lorentz and co., not Brad Defruiter). I am good friends with a number of the game's top volunteers, players, and playtesters from its heyday and can depend on them to support the game through rules discussions and design strategy.
As someone with an interest in the game, I would like to see the player base revived, through whatever means are necessary, be it a "reboot" or any other idea - WHATEVER IT TAKES.
So yeah, that's me.
Yesss! That's why I said I wish to count HawkeysSPF in :up: ES is already very involved to my mind... so... if Disco Stu would like to join as well - I would apprecciate really.
Concerning my person on its own: I would join too... as far as I can proove experience as well (successful player at the last official european championship 2007 organized by decipher and inventer of the also already in several tournaments prooved Austrian Format) :up:
I don't know how yet how we shall approach the foundation of a PC. First of all get the right people for it... then assign each ones roll... but the number of people with competence to make decisions must be few. discuss about something: YES! - but somewhere we need an authority with the power to say: IT IS LIKE THAT... or so... - end!
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Click me (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php?topic=823.0) for reading the original topic, where already good ideas were mentioned.
There is also a link for the third try to start a PC.
Could a mod, please, if possible, put the three topics together? [-o< It would be great.
Sincerely
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Click me (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php?topic=823.0) for reading the original topic, where already good ideas was mentioned.
There is also a link for the third try to start a PC.
Could a mod, please, if possible, put the three topics together? [-o< It would be great.
Sincerely
I concur on putting the topics together, if possible.
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Hi all,
I've been lurking and finally decided to throw my hat in the ring.
I used to be a competitive player, and an active contributor to Decipher's LOTR forums. As a competitive player I knew the rules very well, and that would be the aspect I would most like to help with.
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Would it be a good time to offload the CRD draft to the forum? If there's an increased interest in eventually hammering out an official TLHH CRD, maybe we can get some discussion going.
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agreed
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Click me (http://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/index.php?topic=823.0) for reading the original topic, where already good ideas was mentioned.
There is also a link for the third try to start a PC.
Could a mod, please, if possible, put the three topics together? [-o< It would be great.
Sincerely
Would be a good thing to make things easier. For now I gonna read it.
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The LotR PC is now accepting applications!
We are looking to fill roles on the following teams:
- Card Design and Development
- Playtesting
- Rules
- Organized Play (including tournament directors)
- Marketing
- Web Design and Programming
Vince, Chris and I would like all those interested in being a part of the PC Team to send us an email outlining:
- Your qualifications,
- Why you think you'd be a strong candidate (and on which team),
- What you enjoyed in sets 1-19, and why,
- What you didn't enjoy in sets 1-19, and why not,
- When you started playing LotR.
We really want to put together a high-caliber team, so contact us soon at LotRTCGPC@gmail.com if you're interested! Remember to include examples of work you've done if you're interested in Card or Web Design or Marketing.
If you would like to know what it will be like, please see swccgpc.com or trekcc.org - we will be modeling ourselves after and working with these groups in order to be successful. As of yet, the PC is not officially sanctioned by Decipher and is only NOW being formed. However, those in charge of its formation (Vince Accetturo, Chris Schoenthal and I) have all been Decipher volunteers and played in and judged world championship level events. In addition, Vince and Chris were both highly respected playtesters for a number of years (even though Decipher really didn't listen to playtesters during Hunters Block), and were both as much a part of this game as anyone at Decipher for a long time.
Basically what I'm saying is this:
- There is no info that can be passed along at this time about the LotR TCG PC, other than we are looking for the best and brightest to join our ranks.
- Those involved in its inception can be trusted to do it right, and with the fans and players of the game in mind.
All I won't to say is don't go crazy with trying to x-list everything a few people don't like. That will ruin the game more than help keep it alive. I'm all for a LOtR PC as long as they don't try to be the 'GODS' of rule changes and card errata and such. I fully support any group that is trying to keep this great game alive and trying to get more tournament support and such . Just don't kill the game by x-listing, issuing errata and such because a few people don't like how the game is going.
To be fair- the game isn't technically 'going' at all But I certainly see your point. I am not speaking from any position of official authority when I say all of this, of course, but I'd say that Open will obviously stay as is. Standard needs a bit of work, and there are multiple different ways to do this. I doubt we would do a lot of errata unless it is 'cosmetic' stuff- it's much easier to ban things, then bring back similar cards with the same INTENT but more proper costing, etc. The "virtual card" concept gives quite a bit of latitude to fix older mistakes in a way that still allows for the use of strategies and cards that would otherwise be overpowered.
- Rule of 4: change it in to: no more than 4 cards can be taken in to hand or played from draw deck during your fellowship
- Warg Riders. That keyword should be added to certain Orcs, so that the wargs only can go to the Warg Riders. Banning the Keyward is ridiculous, cause that throws out an entire deck, instead of mellowing it.
- certain cards should be bound to a certain culture, such as Prized Lagan.
I think these things are o.k.
I mean, different cultures have to help each other to defeat the forces of the shadow, for that, the FPP get problems, if he has more than 2 FP Cultures.
You see, Prized Lagan is not that problem!
I don't see why you should ban "combo" cards and "fix" culture-less cards. You basically kill deck desing by doing this, discouraging combo decks and rainbow decks (or rainbow splashes, which is ALSO deck design, since it makes deckbuilders check out ALL the cards when building a deck, to see if something outside that particular culture might stand out as useful. Of course, in some cases, errata for clarification or fixing functionality would be nice, but other than that, unless a certain combo is SO powerful everyone (or close to everyone) plays it, then I think instead of banning you could create counter measures for it (or in THIS case issueing errata for certain cards).
Actually, combo decks are strongly against the point of LotR. Card combinations can be fun, but the horn deck is just flat-out overpowered. Its like a site 1 win against any skirmish oriented deck, and sets up a mean shadow kill. There is no counter to the Horn combo, except maybe A Dark Shape Sprang on Gamling with expanded Gollum cards...but nobody's playing expanded Horn, its all standard.
The deck CAN be killed, but I'm just saying you cannot stop the combo from going off, and it leaves swarm shadows virtually unstoppable.
As for rainbow splashes, they're fine, but just a 0 twilight card that completely freezes something...let's just make sure they're at least playing a hobbit in there.
I have a rainbow deck, actually, built on cards with hefty spotting requirements, like Glimpse of Fate, Brooding on Tomorrow, A Light In His Mind and Hardy Garrison. It runs ALL of them. And works well with the spotting requirements. plus, it runs some specialized possessions, etc. Cultural enforcement doesn't mean no rainbow decks. It just means Shire cards aren't being run without a hobbit.
I was just informed of this thread, so I'm posted. My name is Seth Maser. You may remember me as 2007 WC runner-up and a LOTR TCG Grand Master. What you did not know is I was the lead playtester for Decipher's LOTR for a half dozen sets (along with being the lead writer). I am a part of this group that will be doing a PC, so if you are questioning the right hands, I'd like to hope I'm considered one of them. I know that the last few sets had severe faults, but I can also tell you that each and every one of them were reported and the problems were more with the pressure to force things out rather than poor playtesting. I would give further details but I am bound by certain agreements not to do so.
That said there are people, myself and several others, that have designed cards that were printed and balanced. Those people are acutely aware of the meta and will be a major part of the creation of a viable and fair format. This has been considered since the day Decipher ended its run, not just when Steve came up here asking for volunteers.
We ask that you all work with us and help us grow as a universal PC rather than just another splintered group. Like the SWCCG PC, we will not be perfect, and we will get our fair share of criticism, but we will do a very good job creating a format and cards that everyone can play. Like that committee, this committee is starting with players who have a background in the game (Steve, Vince, and Chris were all prominent DAgents), as well as myself and a few others who are not yet identified. This will be mixed with many of you, rabid LOTR fans who just want to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. This can work with all types of opinions, compromises, and even differences of opinion.
In the end, I'm asking you all to volunteer and contact Steve through the email given, and eventually the emails for each department necessary to run the PC.
I don't know how often I'll be able to check this site, but please trust that the PC is in knowledgeable hands, with people who care and want this to succeed. Please trust in Vince, Chris, and Steve, because they are dealing with all the various and splintered LOTR TCG pockets and each of you has a different idea of the direction of the game. This will work, as long as we are all open and trust that each person will do what is best for the community as a whole.
In other words... no, there isn't one. And I personally doubt there'll ever be one sanctioned by Decipher since they have no incentive to do so. We should stop waiting and make one here.
Of course the problems lie in agreeing on a format to play. Ie: an X List has to be agreed upon, the blocks if we want a rotation sytem, what to do about the last three sets, etc. I would say agreement on these issues will be difficult -- especially with a lack of 'legitimacy' coming from no blessing from big 'D'.
My Proposal:
0. I guess we'll have to put someone in charge. By election perhaps? The big name guys on these boards will help with our legitimacy problem.
1. Agree on the current set rotation, if any. I'd prefer none.
2. Agree on an updated X-List, Restricted List and/or Errata to break the big loops, broken-ness etc.
3. Lets start by virtualizing Set 1 (about 20) of the old cards (from Blocks 1-3) and avoid making new images for awhile. This will warm people up.
Thoughts to consider:
A: Do YOU want virtual cards?
B: Would you fall behind a committee that starts changing things in the game?
C: How should the rotations be dealt with?
As for the PC, it never got off the ground. There was obvious interest from the players side, but it never really got past that. The biggest obstacle at the time (and still today) is that Decipher is a little (ok, very) preoccupied with Fight Klub. It just launched, and they're understandably trying to keep the focus on that.
When things get a little more settled, it will be easier to get their attention and plead our case.
The other big stumbling blocks include the lack of sealed product available on the market (it was mentioned elsewhere that Decipher has none left in their warehouse), post Movie Block loss of players, the 3-5 year gap of communication (not everybody knows about this site, obviously), and the varying, very strong opinions of the players of how to "fix" the game. From my understanding, when the PC does get started, and it will, everything from Hunters, RoS, T&D and AE will be banned as the PC comes up with the best solution of how to bring them back into the game. Other preliminary ideas have been tossed out there by those looking to head up the PC, but it's way too soon to say whether or not those will be part of the final plan.
That said, if you've got ideas for the PC, feel free to email them to lotrtcgpc@gmail.com - it doesn't always get checked, as it's on the back burner for most everybody involved, but it will be reviewed in time.
Mass errata with V-Slips would probably be necessary I'd guess. I'd rather see the errata's with printable slips than an X-List. Even though I've got 4 packs worth of Hunters block. HawkEye's right though, it'd be necessary for a little while or we'd have to wait a loooong time until the PC worked out errata's behind closed doors.
But MrLurtz's reaction is typical of what I'd expect with the creation of a PC. Some will not like the decisions no matter what they are.
Lurtzy: So, in your opinion, the game is balanced as is? It doesn't need to have all of Hunters Block looked at?
LOOKED AT <--- This does not imply that everything will need to be changed. There is plenty in Hunters Block that I'm sure won't need to be errated even. SOME OF IT DOES.
You got it exactly right jerba - some people just do not like change, no matter how good the result will be. V-Slip errata is exactly what was discussed. My hope would be that one copy of the errata slips could be mailed, free of charge, to each person who registered with the PC, but I have no idea what the finances of the PC will look like, so I don't know that that's feasible.
Just remember: if any card would be changed it is for the good of the game. Many factors have to be weighed when changing a card. Balance, availability of the card, counters, new players, old players, backlash, etc. No card will be changed without reason. If a precious Hunter block card would be changed it is so that the game is more fun, more accessible, and therefore more welcoming to every breed of player.
Also, I think as FEW cards as possible, if any, will be errattaed. Do as little harm as possible should be the goal. But some trade-offs will be made. You could change a few cards and advance the game with more players OR not change anything and wait for the game to continue to die.
Yes, Lurtzy, it'll affect Hunters Block, but you can be sure that the PC will only change cards that need change, and that those changes will not negatively affect any play environment, be it Standard, Expanded, Open, Draft, or Block.
The Horn deck will definitely receive some type of errata. Loops of that sort will not be welcome in any format. Frenzy of Arrows is another that will get consideration. Decipher simply didn't have the manpower or time to fix that one properly.
Well, wether the horn deck, nor the Gil-Galad combo should be changed. The hunters block is balanced, as it is the standard format.
Be aware: do NOT change cards! That would divide the playership and ruin the game. As I have said before, the horn deck and even the troll swarm are not overpowered!
Card changing can not be handled by players, because it is a subjectif view of sight.
There is just one thing to change, indeed, I think : "Frenzy of arrows". And for this, I would suggst to get 150 subscriptions of players all over the world (do not forget Asia!!!) to accept the new card.
And, if Decipher gets ready with Fight Klub: Collect all rule questions with examples, so we can give them to decipher.
Election would be nice.
Decipher will NOT work with us on rules questions. They will not fix things. Period. They could care less. Its no longer there problem as we've seen over the last few years. They don't have any LOTR experts left nor the incentive to help. Their "blessing" will be nothing more than permission to use their template if we're lucky imo. Remember its D that ruined the game, it won't have been the PC.
As for changing cards, somethings will have to be handled. Plus, its these attitudes that have prevented, to some degree, the PC from moving forward. Whats the purpose of the PC if it can't fix some things? I don't have any card in my sights here. But you guys who can't stand the thought of change: What is the purpose of the PC in your opinion?
Actually, the Trek CC (trekcc.org) started all on its own without explicit permission from either Decipher or Paramount. They got the template files straight from Brad Defruiter, who used to be in charge of design for trek. So far, they have managed not to piss off either D or Paramount, but they run the risk of doing so and being shut down.
I belive that the rules SW TCG PC is using for themselves are the ones LOTR TCG PC should have:
1) They never modify any actually printed card by errata or by making virtual cards with the same titles and images.
2) They never modify any X- and R-list for printed cards, as by the last edition of WOTC ban list.
3) They do create they own virtual cards with new titles and new images. They are using WOTC copyrighted templates and Lucasfilm's images but neither seem to care.
4) They do allow players to play with or without their new cards. That way the purists can still have their own pre-PC "standard" format unchanged, while the rest can experiments with new cards and new mechanics, trying to balance old card or make them playable again.
And yes, I agree with Elrohir, if LOTR PC will start by banning and changing existing cards, it will only alienate players from it. (However Frenzy of Arrows is the notable exception).
To get license, we have to run a TCG succesful for 5 years.
And good financing. We won't be getting the license. We just need a PC to make new cards not a company .
1 - take only a few members, which means ~ 5-6, should form a PC (too many opinions...and so on)
2 - diffent countries, different life styles: the members of a PC should come from all over the world, e.g one from the USA, GB, Australia, South America, Germany/Austria, alright?
Multi-national representation and liason is essential. I think talking specific numbers is premature but I agree with you the PC should be tight in numbers. However, there will have to be more people included in playtesting capacity.
the more represantativs the more difficult it gets to come up to a decision...
Try putting 50 people in the room with various ideas. See how easy it is to make progress in moving forward. Your point though is also along the lines as I feel though. I want the players in the community involved. I want their voices heard. I would like to see a setup where that can happen. However, we will still need a forum that would be for private discussion. At the very least where only the PC members can post.
IN Design designers need the freedom to through ideas out. I've seen it too many times where cards that are created are just so good or bizarre that most people may just flip out over the power of playability of the card. When that happens sometimes great ideas are lost. Allowing Design to be creative is good. It's what makes for a healthy design environment. Given there does need to be some parameters. I think everyone would agree we don't need to see 30+ str orc armies...
I do hear you though Lurtzy. I don't want this to be a "good ol' boys" club. It needs to involve the players and be for the players. I also appreciate your questioning things. It's very healthy to have people question ideas. If we all agreed then things could end up even worse.
I think the first thing to do is to generate credibility. With every forum the risk is that people get to know eachother, and indeed a 'good ol'boys' club is created. Therefor credibility and acceptance by the whole community -as far as possible- is needed. Maybe via the old groups on decktech? So we need definately need quite some time to get more people involved..people from all over the world.
Its not about ignoring ideas or secrecy. Its about providing a united front when things are released and developing an idea without alienating the general play group. We don't want there to be different bickering camps -- I've seen it in Star Wars. It creates a hostile environment, nothing gets done, and the product (ie v cards) suffer as a result. You lose more players in this situation. In fact if the whole community was contributing, voting on, and making each and every v-card most ideas and proposals would HAVE to be ignored, passed over, or tacitly acknowledged. You will be offending a lot more people like that and creating a schism in our playing group. Private PC forums allows for the arguments and development to safely evolve without any threat to the community on the whole.
Part of the great aspect of card game expansions is the anticipation for new cards. Something must be a surprise. If that process were generally available to the community nothing would be a surprise. Nothing would be agreed upon and the PC would not exist. It might as well be the DC forum here on TLHH.
I hate to bring this back up, but I recently heard from someone in the know that the reason the original PC never got off the ground was because of New Line Cinema and one Peter Jackson.
If you think they won't shut down anything labeled as a PC as soon as they hear about it, you've got another thing comin'. That said, feel free to get a plan together, but you better be #$&*@! sure it's complete before you submit it to any of the involved parties, and even then, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on a positive response.
I think the best bet is just to organize whatever kind of events you want, hosted wherever you want, and advertise the heck out of them anywhere you can. Right here at TLHH seems like a fine place to do that - maybe a new forum would be in order?
So...who's going to run the GenCon Series? ComicCon Series? Essen Spiel Series? Wizard World Series? DragonCon Series? Nobody says we can't organize State and National Championships - with over two month's notice, I don't see why you can't call that tournament in Kansas a State Championship. Running World Championships might be a stretch until more players know about this site, but hey, why not?
Showing an active player base is absolutely the BEST way to demonstrate the need for a PC to those who might otherwise be dubious.
Just a few ideas, take them for what they're worth.
Suggestions about organization:
Administration:
1. Chairman Fishfleas
2. Secretary Elrohir (to me it seems he speaks at least 4 different languages)
3. Cashier
4. Rulings & Referee's:
a. Referees
5. Playdevellopment & design
a. Designers
b. Developers
c. Testers
6. Marketing (contact (decipher, Weta, Licenseholders), reaching sponsors and new players)
7. Webhost
a. Moderators
A lot of ideas which I've get into my head and to filter. For now I would say:
I don't want a big PC (5 people would be okay). I want teams/commissions with each a represantative in the pc. The teams will make sure that most nationalities and most people will be part of this.
Talking about cards to be errated or to be x-ed is not part of this topic. It will be a responsability for the pc, but talking about it now will hinder forming a pc. So please don't. It will be dealt after the organisation is ready and by the proper team.
Further I think to get all of this going we should do like Startrek pc has done and after we've settled things we try to get everything official with whoever is involved. To this point I think we need a very sollid plan and maybe (I'm actually sure about this) we need to do it together with Starttrek pc and star wars pc. But as said earlier that's not our first concern.
About leadership. My experience is that someone has to pull it of first, before you can do it with elections. So at this point I first ask input about peoples involvement and put them in teams. I give my preference about who should be in the pc and for starting this up I want to apoint them there. If everything is on the rail, elections within the teams about their representative should come into play. My stewardship will end on the moment the first Returned king is elected. Hey Denethor did the same, didn't he :D But if you don't mind I don't do it as drastic as he did ;)
Keep put in your ideas.. I'm in my denktank for the coming 2 days, but will attend to it after the weekend. Cheers, jw
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Sorry, was a bit busy last few days. I still didn´t get response from all people wh I did sent a message. During this weekend I´ll make an organisationstructure. Tuesday I gonna talk with my playersgroup about what they think and next wednessday I want to bring up the whole plan.
Regards,
jw
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I can't say I like the tone of the way this PC's introduction. It belittles all the effort JW and others have put into this effort and it makes me ask: "Who put you in charge anyway?"
Be that as it may, I agree with a lot of what is being said. I think the group should be small and there will always be people who don't agree with the proposed changes etc. I would like to say that we should first try and play the changes. If they really don't work, we can always change them again.
I have a serious problem with the expressed ban on any card from the latter series until the PC can get around to fixing them. I agree that making old cards playable again should be a priority but so should erratas and (if unavoidable!) banning specific cards from the latter series so the broken cards can be toned down and or excluded. This combinations imho will result in a possible return of older players as well as keeping those who kept faith with LotR over the years interested in the game.
As for my qualifications; since you work closely with the teams from the SW PC, I made most of the banners for the Virtual sets 1 through 12 and some additional stuff for auctions etc. Apart from that, I used to work as a graphics designer and I have played LotR from its conception until now. I thoroughly hate combo-decks (That was one of the reasons why I stopped playing Magic) so playing against JW is sometimes a bit of a challenge;-).
I hope the PC goes forward but I balk at letting people who used to be big in the game take this away from the others who put time and effort in it in the way proposed in the above qoute of Smeagollum. My suggetion would be to combine the effort and find the best people for the job that way!
Henk Maul
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I can't say I like the tone of the way this PC's introduction. It belittles all the effort JW and others have put into this effort and it makes me ask: "Who put you in charge anyway?"
???
Well.. gues you'll gonna explain tuesday!
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Sorry! I hate it when I think I'm c lear about something but then it turns out that I'm not. All I wanted to indicate that I didn't like the way they're taking over from you and were laying down the law. I think your work warrants more recognition!
Reading back now; I can see how it could be misinterpreted the way you did. In short, I think that you should have an active part in this PC! Sorry again for the misunderstanding!
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I think I've got an active part in it??? Am I something missing here????
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JW ik denk dat ie bedoelt dat hij vindt dat jij een actieve rol moet hebben -als in: jij neemt nu al zo veel hooi op je vork en dus dat jij een leidende figuur moet zijn is voor hem duidelijk- en dat hij vindt dat je er te weinig waardering voor krijgt, haha.
Sorry y'all. 2 dutch guys trying to communicate in english and they are misreading eachothers words. Therefor I interupted in dutch, to clear some things up, at least I think I did ;D
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Gil-Estel is one hunderd procent right in his assumption!
Way to go JW and the rest of the explanation will follow tonight (If I can get away from work at all!)
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I just want to say that I'm behind JW too. Its a lot of work to get this going and there are a lot of nay sayers and frivolous demands put on him. I'll support a PC, even if I don't initially agree with a decision. I just want the game to return to us.
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No worries. I think it's all a misunderstanding. My plan is ready. Only one problem I've got it in open office and I've got it at home. I don't have internet at home and where I have internet there is no possibility to get it from a mem-stick. So will go to an internetcafe tomorow to put it up.
Jerba, I used most of your organisation, but I like to have different names. As name for the pc I think: The Council of the White tree. For the different team so far I've got: Istari (design), Knights of the White tree (Like riders of rohan, later d'agent), Knights of Justice (format & crd). But Maybe you can help me to another few names for teams. Roles in the pc so far: The returned King of Gondor, The white wizard, The steward, The captain of the white tree and the prince of Dol Amroth .
Oh people I realy want to be in the pc are Hawkeyespf and Discostu. I even think that one of those two should take over my position after I've set things up.
To the others the comming weeks I want to plan inetsessions per team where people can discuss to be in the team and what they want to do and who from them they want to represent them in the PC. So far I've got 4 teams.
I can say one thing allready about new cards. Idea of legosmurf is very appealing. One question to him and I'll do that in dutch as it's abit more easy for me.
Henk, gister vertelde je mij dat er workarounds zijn mbt maken van nieuwe teksten voor een kaartje, maar dat naamgeving, strength, vitality gelijk moeten blijven, maar dat je bijvoorbeeld in de tekst kon zetten dat iets ipv zeg moria culture de orc culture heeft. Werkt dat ook bij titels. Je laat de titel hetzelfde, maar je zet in de tekst bijvoorbeeld: Sauron counts as Annatar, huppelepup huppelepup?
Zou dit wel mogen?
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not to be a naysayer or anything, because i really want a PC, but we (you) only have one chance, if D, Peter Jackson or the Heirs of Tolkien get ticked off were going to be back at square one and there will be no way to try again.
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not to be a naysayer or anything, because i really want a PC, but we (you) only have one chance, if D, Peter Jackson or the Heirs of Tolkien get ticked off were going to be back at square one and there will be no way to try again.
While a possibility, I think that we're not as important to them as you might think. The people we have here are no threat at all. I think we need to tread carefully at first with just working out rules, erratas, bans, or whatever. Ramp it up with V-Cards that don't change the images, titles, or subtitles. Eventually, if there is not any problem, I think totally new cards would be a fine. But like you say, being careful is wise at this juncture. The continuance of the playing community should be the first priority.
Smeagollum, you can use whatever you want. I've just posted ideas, use what works. Unlike the cards we use, my ideas are not copyrighted... unless you want to pay me for them. ;) I just want it all to work out. I'm confident it will.
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Henk, gister vertelde je mij dat er workarounds zijn mbt maken van nieuwe teksten voor een kaartje, maar dat naamgeving, strength, vitality gelijk moeten blijven, maar dat je bijvoorbeeld in de tekst kon zetten dat iets ipv zeg moria culture de orc culture heeft. Werkt dat ook bij titels. Je laat de titel hetzelfde, maar je zet in de tekst bijvoorbeeld: Sauron counts as Annatar, huppelepup huppelepup?
Zou dit wel mogen?
Translation: I can create alternative game text for a virtual card but can I also change a card title?
Answer: Legally no because then you'll be creating a new card. It should be possible to say that the card can count as <Insert Name> like it is now done with rings that could be worn by a variaty of characters. In the same way could you change te gametext of an old card to fit unto a new culture or work with certain new culture cards but you legally can't change te culture symbol on the card. It's a little warped legally but I agree with Legolas3333 that we only get one shot at this so caution should be the key-word here.
(I still remember making posters for the the Star Wars PC and being told that we could use existing images but that we couldn't resize tem, warp them or even tilt tem! Frustration but good to keep in mind!)
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Henk, gister vertelde je mij dat er workarounds zijn mbt maken van nieuwe teksten voor een kaartje, maar dat naamgeving, strength, vitality gelijk moeten blijven, maar dat je bijvoorbeeld in de tekst kon zetten dat iets ipv zeg moria culture de orc culture heeft. Werkt dat ook bij titels. Je laat de titel hetzelfde, maar je zet in de tekst bijvoorbeeld: Sauron counts as Annatar, huppelepup huppelepup?
Zou dit wel mogen?
Translation: I can create alternative game text for a virtual card but can I also change a card title?
Answer: Legally no because then you'll be creating a new card. It should be possible to say that the card can count as <Insert Name> like it is now done with rings that could be worn by a variaty of characters. In the same way could you change te gametext of an old card to fit unto a new culture or work with certain new culture cards but you legally can't change te culture symbol on the card. It's a little warped legally but I agree with Legolas3333 that we only get one shot at this so caution should be the key-word here.
(I still remember making posters for the the Star Wars PC and being told that we could use existing images but that we couldn't resize tem, warp them or even tilt tem! Frustration but good to keep in mind!)
The anwser you gave me is exactly what I asked ;)