The Last Homely House
Middle-Earth => Chamber of Mazarbul => Topic started by: jdizzy001 on May 09, 2010, 10:41:14 PM
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I am deeply saddened that T&D was never used in game. I'm sad, not because the mechanic was never used, but because the awesome card images were never utilized. So in honor of the unused images, I have prepared the Triumph and Menace remix. Each card redone with a text utilizing movie block rules (meaning no lurker, muster, toil, nor hunter.) I hope you enjoy them, let me know what you think.
[11] •Army of Dunland [dunland]
Minion • Man
Str: 20
Vit: 2
Site: 3
To play spot a [dunland] Man.
When you play this minion, if you control 2 sites, you may discard 2 free peoples possessions.
[2] Dwarven Escort [dwarf]
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 5
Vit: 3
At the start of the Fellowship Phase, you may add [2] to draw a card
[2] •Legolas, Nimble Elf [elf]
Companion • Elf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Archer.
While you have initiative, the fellowship archery total is +1.
[5] •Treebeard, Enemy of the Hand [gandalf]
Companion • Ent
Str: 12
Vit: 4
To play spot 3 [gandalf] companions.
Each time a minion loses a skirmish, you may exert Treebeard twice to discard that minion.
[2] •Gollum, worker of mischief [gollum] SHDW
Minion
Str: 5
Vit: 4
Site: 3
At the start of the regroup phase, you may exert Gollum 2 times to make the move limit -1.
[4] •Aragorn, Dunadan [gondor]
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Ranger.
At the start of the maneuver phase, if you have initiative, you may exert a minion.
[9] •Army of Isengard [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 16
Vit: 4
Site: 5
Damage +1. To play spot an Uruk-hai.
While you control 2 sites, this minion is fierce.
[10] •Army of Moria [moria]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 3
Site: 4
When you play this minion, you draw 3 cards.
[11] •Army of Harad [raider]
Minion • Man
Str: 17
Vit: 4
Site: 4
Southron. Archer. To play spot a [raider] Man.
While you have initiative, this minion gains ambush [5].
[14] •The Nazgul [wraith]
Minion • Nazgul
Str: 20
Vit: 5
Site: 3
Fierce.
To play, spot a [wraith] card.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, add 2 burdens.
[2] •Eowyn, Daughter of Kings [rohan]
Companion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 3
At the start of each fellowship phase, if you can spot 2 other men, the move limit is +1.
[9] •Army of Sauron [sauron]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 5
Site: 6
To play spot a [sauron] orc.
While the shadow player has initiative, this minion is strength +10.
[2] •Sam, Lover of Trees [shire]
Companion • Hobbit
Str:3
Vit:4
At the start of the fellowship phase if you can spot Frodo you may remove a burden.
Response: If Frodo dies, make Sam the Ring-bearer (Resistance 5).
Here are the latest updates. Please let me know what you think. I'd like to find something balanced and playable yet not overbearing.
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I would prefer them to be standard legal.
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I'm not adding anything new to them, just removing triumph and menace keywords, i don't know why they couldn't be legal in standard
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I would prefer to have them in print... ;) ;)
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yeah, me too. maybe I can make some slip in virtual card things
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yeah, me too. maybe I can make some slip in virtual card things
:up:
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Reviews....
[11] •Army of Dunland [dunland]
Minion • Man
Str: 20
Vit: 2
Site: 3
To play spot a [dunland] Man.
When you play this minion, if you control 3 sites, you may discard 2 free peoples possessions.
Ok. It could be only 2 sites. [dunland] loves 2 sites.
[2] Dwarven Escort [dwarf]
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 5
Vit: 3
At the start of the Fellowship Phase, you may add [2] to draw a card
Ok.
[2] •Legolas, Nimble Elf [elf]
Companion • Elf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
At the start of the Archery Phase, you may exert Legolas to make the fellowship archery total +1.
This gametext is a bit boring. What about, 'you may remove a [Elven] token' or 'you may spot 5 Elves'.
[5] •Treebeard, Enemy of the Hand [gandalf]
Companion • Ent
Str: 12
Vit: 4
Skirmish: Exert Treebeard 3 times to discard a minion he is skirmishing.
Note: still not entirely satisfied with this one. Ideas please.
I'd like you to remember than the other Treebeard companions require spotting 3 [Gandalf] companion or are unhasty. What about 'At the start of each skirmish involving Treebeard, you may spot X other [Gandalf] companions to discard a minion with strength X or less he is skirmishing.'
[2] Gollum, worker of mischief [gollum] SHDW
Minion
Str: 5
Vit: 4
Site: 3
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, you may exert him 3 times to make the move limit -1 this turn.
This is a very powerful card but I still like it.
[4] •Aragorn, Dunadan [gondor]
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Ranger.
At the start of the Maneuver Phase you may wound a minion.
I think Aragorn should exert. You can also remove the capital letters of Maneuver Phase.
[9] •Army of Isengard [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 16
Vit: 4
Site: 5
Damage +1. To play spot an Uruk-hai.
When you play this minion, if you control 2 sites, it is fierce until the regroup phase.
I like it.
[10] •Army of Moria [moria]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 3
Site: 4
To play, spot a [moria] orc.
When you play this minion, you may exert it twice to draw 3 cards.
I guess that he is OK.
[11] •Army of Harad [raider]
Minion • Man
Str: 17
Vit: 4
Site: 4
Southron. Archer. To play spot a [raider] Man.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, it gains ambush [5] until the regroup phase.
Ok as well.
[14] •The Nazgul [wraith]
Minion • Nazgul
Str: 20
Vit: 5
Site: 3
Fierce. To play spot a Nazgul.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, add 2 burdens.
Ok I guess.
[2] •Eowyn, Daughter of Kings [rohan]
Companion • Man
Str: 6
Vit:3
At the start of the fellowship phase, exert Ewoyn twice to make the move limit for this turn +1.
Typing mistake here. I'm not sure that the cost is high enough.
[9] •Army of Sauron [sauron]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 5
Site: 6
To play spot a [sauron] orc.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, it is strength +10 until the regroup phase.
Pretty cool.
[2] •Sam, Lover of Trees [shire]
Companion • Hobbit
Str:3
Vit:4
At the start of the fellowship phase, add [3] to remove a burden.
Response: If Frodo dies, make Sam the Ring-bearer (Resistance 5).
Note: still not satisfied with this one. Ideas please.
What about, discard a card from hand or discard a [shire] card or discard a tale?
Well, here they are, Triumph and Menace remix. Each one made to harness (what I believe) the intent of the original card to be, with a movie block twist.
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thanks for the ideas, I used some of them. I really liked the treebeard idea as well as the Sam idea.
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Army of Sauron is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too powerful. It needs to be toned down. A lot.
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I wouldn't compare anything to Host of Udun. Compared to Siege Troop, it isn't fair.
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27 strength for [1](0)? Nope, still not balanced.
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Orc Pursuer = 9 Strength for [1]
Orc Chaser = 12 Strength for [2]
Orc Stalker = 16 Strength for [3]
These one have the Tracker keyword and reduce the site number of [sauron] orcs.
His Army of Sauron requires spotting an orc and doesn't have the tracker keyword.
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Technically he costs more than 10 because he is roaming till site 6 and another orc must be in play before he can be used. However, at str 27, he can overwhelm the stoutest companions even if they use a few skirmish events. What about replacing the +10 bonus with a +5, and changing the cost back to [9]? What do ya think?
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You could make him 'To play spot 3 orcs' instead.
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That isn't a bad idea.
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I'm finished. All the slip-in sleeves of the Triumph and Menace remix are complete. It may as well be renamed the initiative remix. In the end, i largely replaced the T&M mechanic with the initiative mechanic. This way the card is still "random." Sadly, due to the programs I have available, I couldn't match the text fonts used by Big D. I did my best though.
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I don't think I would use any of them (not good enough) with one exception. The new, strongest Aragorn card in the game.
-wtk
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In fact, I think all of the cards are terribly over-priced (or under-powered) with the exception of Aragorn, who is universally fantastic.
And why isn't Legolas an archer? I guess he is pretty strong if he is, but basically you are trading any Legolas who is an archer with game text for one who may add one to the archery total. Weak sauce.
-wtk
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Ha Ha, good catch. I didn't realize i had forgotten to give legolas the archer keyword. yes, he is supposed to be an archer. As far as aragorn is concerned, you still have to have initiative to make him work, otherwise he has no text.
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It's not hard to have the initiative at the start of the maneuver phase. I would suggest that nearly 80% of the time, I have the initiative at the start of the maneuver phase.
-wtk
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do you think exerting a minion would be better? i personally like it as is, but I want to know what others think.
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I prefer 'exert a minion'. By the way, I'm saddened by the fact that your Army of Sauron only gains strength +5.
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I am too, but a str 27 minion seemed really outrageous. 22 is still very formitable. On account of his cost, would it be better if his bonus lasted as long as the shadow has initiative instead of until the regroup phase? If you want to see the final product send me a PM. This goes for anyone. Want to see them? PM me.
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I am too, but a str 27 minion seemed really outrageous. 22 is still very formitable. On account of his cost, would it be better if his bonus lasted as long as the shadow has initiative instead of until the regroup phase? If you want to see the final product send me a PM. This goes for anyone. Want to see them? PM me.
Your minion isn't automatically strength 22, it is strength 17 and it isn't that good if you consider Siege Troop. For one less twilight, you have a 20 strength minion that doesn't require spotting an orc, doesn't need initiative to be good, and also has a nice little gametext.
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I think you need for the card to be at least strength 25 if you ever want it to see play. Granted there are some good ways to gain initiative in the [Sauron] culture.
-wtk
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I am too, but a str 27 minion seemed really outrageous. 22 is still very formitable. On account of his cost, would it be better if his bonus lasted as long as the shadow has initiative instead of until the regroup phase? If you want to see the final product send me a PM. This goes for anyone. Want to see them? PM me.
I'm interested in seeing this.
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What about strength +5 and fierce?
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not a bad idea. I was saving fierce for the uruk, but fierce may strngthen the minion without sending it to the broken pile.
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well, I made some "final" changes. I feel very good about how these cards turned out. I'm just sad they'll never see play. At least anywhere official. Nevertheless, thanks to everyone for their input, advice, and thoughts. If any more occur to you, please let me know.
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10] •Army of Moria [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 3
Site: 4
To play, spot a Moria orc.
When you play this minion, you may exert it twice to draw 3 cards.
Review on this card:
I think that it might be a little too expensive. See Host of Moria.
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10] •Army of Moria [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 3
Site: 4
To play, spot a Moria orc.
When you play this minion, you may exert it twice to draw 3 cards.
Radically inferior to Host of Moria.
-wtk
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Thanks for the input. I think I will drop the spotting requirement and drop the cost by a point.
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Exerting it twice ruins any goodness the card has. If anything I would want to be able to play something that could absorb some archery...
I'd rather play the Balrog, Terror of Flame and Shadow any day.
-wtk
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I was literally just this very moment thinking the same thing. What about leaving the twilight cost at 10, eliminating the spotting requirement, and simply allowing the player to draw 3 extra cards when it is played (That is eliminate the exertion requirement.)
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That sounds good, especially since the [Moria] type is all about swarming and playing as many extra cards as it can! I don't know if you still might want to knock it down to 9 or not, I'm not sure if that would make it op or not.
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The original Army of Moria is pretty weak as well.
You should keep the 'To play spot a [Moria] orc.' part because it is a pattern on all the Army minions.
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It was a large in part, on account of the menace key word. Once the right number of twilight was added by the freeps player, these armies were played from your draw deck. In order to keep a player from playing minions from their draw deck willy-nilly, the spot a minion text was added. I decided to remove the text largely because of set 9's host of moria. Ket brought to my attention that Host of Moria was far superior to even the original army of moria. In order to put them both on a competative level, i had to drop the 'spot a minion' text. That, and I also removed the exert to draw protion of the text.
Nevertheless, thanks for your input. I will mull it over in my head.
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Sorry I've been so late in reviewing! I'm very out of forum life at the moment, but this was always on my list of things to do!
[11] •Army of Dunland [dunland]
Minion • Man
Str: 20
Vit: 2
Site: 3
To play spot a [dunland] Man.
When you play this minion, if you control 2 sites, you may discard 2 free peoples possessions.
Strength 20 minions are not that exciting without something like fierce or a damage bonus. This might not be an issue, but I thought I'd mention it. I think the ability is good though – a very simple ability for 2 site Dunland.
[2] Dwarven Escort [dwarf]
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 5
Vit: 3
At the start of the Fellowship Phase, you may add [2] to draw a card
As a non-unique guy, he is quite good. I think I would like him a lot more if he were a version of Gimli, or something. As it is, I'm not sure. Obviously 4 of him costs [8] every turn to draw 4, but it still feels wrong to me. I certainly might have a "To play, spot a Dwarf" in there.
[2] •Legolas, Nimble Elf [elf]
Companion • Elf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Archer.
While you have initiative, the fellowship archery total is +1.
Probably fine. Good, but fine. Did the original card come with a signet?
[5] •Treebeard, Enemy of the Hand [gandalf]
Companion • Ent
Str: 12
Vit: 4
To play spot 3 Ents.
Each time Treebeard wins a skirmish, spot 3 Ents to discard a minion he was skirmishing.
Note: Much cleaner.
An unimpressive Treebeard. I would lose the spotting requirement given that his ability only triggers with 3 Ents. How about something like "Each time your Ent wins a skirmish, you may spot 3 Ents and exert Treebeard to discard a minion that Ent was skirmishing"?
[2] •Gollum, worker of mischief [gollum] SHDW
Minion
Str: 5
Vit: 4
Site: 3
To play spot a [gollum] condition.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, you may exert him 3 times to make the move limit -1 this turn.
The spotting requirement makes him almost useless. I don't see why Gollum should have to spot his own stuff to play him. Otherwise, he's okay. Perhaps it should be a regroup ability instead?
[4] •Aragorn, Dunadan [gondor]
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Ranger.
At the start of the maneuver phase, if you have initiative, you may exert a minion.
Perhaps too good. Not sure. Certainly nice and clean, so it probably doesn't matter.
[9] •Army of Isengard [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 16
Vit: 4
Site: 5
Damage +1. To play spot an Uruk-hai.
While you control 2 sites, this minion is fierce.
Seems okay.
[10] •Army of Moria [moria]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 3
Site: 4
When you play this minion, you draw 3 cards.
Yeah I like. This guy at least has a good point without a keyword. But I might give him a spotting requirement like the others.
[11] •Army of Harad [raider]
Minion • Man
Str: 17
Vit: 4
Site: 4
Southron. Archer. To play spot a [raider] Man.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, it gains ambush [5] until the regroup phase.
Your wording is a little weird. It would be easier to have "While you have initiative, this minion gains ambush [5]." Seems fun. I like how he comes with a Raider Bow.
[14] •The Nazgul [wraith]
Minion • Nazgul
Str: 20
Vit: 5
Site: 3
Fierce. To play spot a Nazgul.
When you play this minion, if you have initiative, add 2 burdens.
Not sure that you should have to spot 1 of the Nazgûl to play all of them. I think I would make the spotting requirement "To play, spot a [Wraith] card."
[2] •Eowyn, Daughter of Kings [rohan]
Companion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 3
While you have initiative, and can spot 2 other men, the move limit is +1.
This raises issues. Move limits last for the whole turn as soon as they are applied, so you could conceivable continually lose and gain initiative to keep increasing the move limit. It either needs to be "At the start of the turn..." or at some other point when it only happens once per turn, or I would choose a different effect for her.
[9] •Army of Sauron [sauron]
Minion • Orc
Str: 17
Vit: 5
Site: 6
To play spot a [sauron] orc.
While the shadow player has initiative, this minion is strength +10.
I think it's a massive shame that he loses the symmetry that the old [Sauron] Orcs had (like Orc Chaser). I think I would give him base strength 13 with +13 and fierce.
[2] •Sam, Lover of Trees [shire]
Companion • Hobbit
Str:3
Vit:4
Each time you lose initiative, you may remove a burden.
Response: If Frodo dies, make Sam the Ring-bearer (Resistance 5).
I don't like having a double Light in His Mind. Seems a bit ridiculous. I think it perhaps fits better on Sam than the condition, but I think you should find something else.
Thranduil
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Cool, thanks for the input. The nazgul spotting condition was a great idea. As far as signets are concerned, none of the t&m cards came with signets. I tried to keep some of the spotting requirements of the original cards, which is why so many of them had bizarre spotting requirements, like Gollum, big D started it, and I just went with it. Of course as I mentioned before, it was so you couldn't play a ton of minions from your draw deck once menace was active. I should probably go through and reweigh some of the requirements to play the minions. You bring up a valid point concerning eowyn. Something like, "at the start of the turn you may spot 2 other men to make the move limit +1" would be much more effective
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If you make those changes, could you re-email them to me? I did enjoy the first ones.
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Keep in mind when you remix these cards that you wanna keep them as close to the original ones as possible.
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@ Cwork: I am trying very hard to maintain the series original power level and mechanincs (Thus, Aragorn and Legolas have changed very little). I hope, to some extent, I am managing this. Thanks for the encouragement.
@Lurtzy: I am glad to hear you enjoyed the originals. I will send you an update once they are finished.
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Sam has been updated, if your interested.
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[2] •Sam, Lover of Trees [shire]
Companion • Hobbit
Str:3
Vit:4
Fellowship: Add 2 threats to remove a burden.
Response: If Frodo dies, make Sam the Ring-bearer (Resistance 5).
Note:[i/] The idea for this new text came from Legolas, Skeptical Guide.
Shadowfax, GotM?
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GOSH DARN IT! (Pardon my G-Rated rant.) My only defense would be this card represents a pre-shadows Sam. He has no resistence. Well, I'm open to ideas. Anyone have a text usable by Sam?
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At the start of each Fellowship phase, if you can spot Frodo, remove a burden.
That will put a target on Sam's back, but still kind of get across his point. Is it over-powered? Maybe, but what isn't in the post-Shadows world?
-wtk
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wow, that is overpowered. However, as you mention, what isn't in these days. I like the "target" it paints on Sam though. "hit me or you can't corrupt the rb! nah, nah."
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You know, I don't think it is as overpowered as I thought it was earlier. I mean, if they want to use Alternate Ring-Bearers, they have to use Frodo, Frenzied Fighter. Obviously A Promise, etc., but a single burden per turn with a big target on his back. Plus, since you have to spot Frodo, if Frodo gets killed (and Sam takes the Ring), he effectively has no game text.
-wtk
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I had the same thought as you regarding the number of burdens he removes. Son of Hamfast is actually "better." I never thought about alternate RB's either. It also makes sam very "unique" in that he can only effectively be used with a frodo RB. I like it. Sam's text has been updated