AUSTRIAN FORMAT

[Olorin]

Guys,

I recognized that the expanded format is still present here; I have cancelled/prohibited all expanded format decks in tournaments I organized - due to the fact that in expanded format so many broken combos are possible...

What do you think to invent also the AUSTRIAN-FORMAT for deck building... it works like this:

at the basic, nearly all cards from all editions are allowed - but you have to consider that your deck consists from two pars - a free people's site and a shadow site.

you are allowed to use for one deck site cards from edtion 1 - 10 or 7 -18; cards from editions 9, 14, 16 and 19 are always allowed; all THE ONE RINGS and all ALTERNATIVE RINGBEARER are always allowed - everything's clear to you so far?

for example: in Austrian Format you are allowed to play this deck:
twilight nazgul corruption (shadow site) 1-10
hunter elves archery (free people's site) 7-18

this means you can play a kind of standard format with the difference that you are able to play also the old edtions... without having to face broken combos occuring in expanded format decks...

what do you think?
this format has already been tested in play (tournament in Austria, european championship in Germany)... and everyone's said: this is the best way to have a good game with the aspect that also other players without having a lot of cards from the newer editions are able to participate and play the game...
...

so, what do you say?
If there is any question left please do not hesitate and I will be happy to help you... 

[Gate Troll]

That sounds cool! Using both types in a deck, but not so they affect each other! Brilliant! 
I'm going to have to try that sometime... 

[Mc Tono]

It`s a great format. Friends of mine played it in Germany at the EC. Maybe you can also say something about bans and restrictions.

I played it also and it`s especially a lot of fun slaughtering a standard deck with a movieblock shadow...

[Mc Tono]

oh yeah, not to mention a gruesome tentacle swarm with all tentacles or a series 19 Balrog with power and terror....

[TheJord]

I dont think you understand Mc Tono, your shadow can either be set 1-10 or set 7-19, so you couldnt mix Ages End 'Rog with Power and Terror

[MADG0BLIN]

Yes you can. That's the fun part.

Quote:
You are allowed to use for one deck site cards from edtion 1 - 10 or 7 -18; cards from editions 9, 14, 16 and 19 are ALWAYS allowed; all THE ONE RINGS and all ALTERNATIVE RINGBEARER are always allowed - everything's clear to you so far?

[Olorin]

Thanks for response!

This is really a great format - invented by myself - and now this is "Standard" in Austria and also in Germany ;-)

[Olorin]

...probably it is possible to make therefore an extra menu as "Standard", etc. in "Lothlorien": "AUSTRIAN FORMAT"?

[TheJord]

Well Expanded format basically covers Austrian format... I would suggest posting in Expanded with a note that this is an Austrian format

[Beorn]

One of the problems we have is that when new players join our group they are severely disadvantaged because they cannot get new cards. We allow proxies which helps somewhat. I am definitely going to speak to my group about using this format for future leagues and such. Good idea! 

[Gil-Estel]

Yeah, I have experienced this and it is great. There are a few nice decks possible and I've seen them. It is great to see Moria swarm and Savargery to match their Numbers getting the best out of serious standard fellowships....

[Olorin]

So, I would say, feel free to post further on and perhaps also some deck ideas with this format...

[Smeagollum]

Guys,

I recognized that the expanded format is still present here; I have cancelled/prohibited all expanded format decks in tournaments I organized - due to the fact that in expanded format so many broken combos are possible...

What do you think to invent also the AUSTRIAN-FORMAT for deck building... it works like this:

at the basic, nearly all cards from all editions are allowed - but you have to consider that your deck consists from two pars - a free people's site and a shadow site.

you are allowed to use for one deck site cards from edtion 1 - 10 or 7 -18; cards from editions 9, 14, 16 and 19 are always allowed; all THE ONE RINGS and all ALTERNATIVE RINGBEARER are always allowed - everything's clear to you so far?

for example: in Austrian Format you are allowed to play this deck:
twilight nazgul corruption (shadow site) 1-10
hunter elves archery (free people's site) 7-18

this means you can play a kind of standard format with the difference that you are able to play also the old edtions... without having to face broken combos occuring in expanded format decks...

what do you think?
this format has already been tested in play (tournament in Austria, european championship in Germany)... and everyone's said: this is the best way to have a good game with the aspect that also other players without having a lot of cards from the newer editions are able to participate and play the game...
...

so, what do you say?
If there is any question left please do not hesitate and I will be happy to help you... 

And how do you organize the old sitepath?

[Olorin]

about the sitepath: only the new sites are meant to be played (from set 11 and later) - and for players who don't have cards past set 10, I think it should be very easy to get nine sites from the newer sets...
so only new sites are allowed to play.

Everything's clear so far? ;-)

[Smeagollum]

about the sitepath: only the new sites are meant to be played (from set 11 and later) - and for players who don't have cards past set 10, I think it should be very easy to get nine sites from the newer sets...
so only new sites are allowed to play.

Everything's clear so far? ;-)

I think we can do better then this. I've got a system which allows old sites to be played in this system.

Shadowwcost site - original region in which the site original belongs + region in which the site is played = total twilightcost

Example:

A site 9 from fotr-block with a cost of 9 is played

in region 1: 9 - 6 = 3 + 0 = 3
In region 2: 9 - 6 + 3 + 3 = 6
in region 3: 9 - 6 = 3 + 6 = 9

A site 4 with 1 cost played in region:

1: 1 - 3 = 0 (can not be less then 0) + 0 = 0
2: 1 - 3 = 0 + 3 = 3
3: 1 - 3 = 0 + 6 = 6 

[Olorin]

about the sitepath: only the new sites are meant to be played (from set 11 and later) - and for players who don't have cards past set 10, I think it should be very easy to get nine sites from the newer sets...
so only new sites are allowed to play.

Everything's clear so far? ;-)

I think we can do better then this. I've got a system which allows old sites to be played in this system.

Shadowwcost site - original region in which the site original belongs + region in which the site is played = total twilightcost

Example:

A site 9 from fotr-block with a cost of 9 is played

in region 1: 9 - 6 = 3 + 0 = 3
In region 2: 9 - 6 + 3 + 3 = 6
in region 3: 9 - 6 = 3 + 6 = 9

A site 4 with 1 cost played in region:

1: 1 - 3 = 0 (can not be less then 0) + 0 = 0
2: 1 - 3 = 0 + 3 = 3
3: 1 - 3 = 0 + 6 = 6 

Thanks for spending thoughts onto this topic - but there it starts to get complicated: Site cards are wheter good (fpp) nor bad (shadow) cards; If I now play an "old" fellowship from set 1-10 and a "new" shadow site, from set 7-19 and I am allowed to play also old sites... hmmm... then I may play with the old Bridge of Khazad-dûm The Balrog Demon of Might at site 5 from my deck at twilight cost -6!!! This is just one example...

I would say let the AUSTRIAN FORMAT as the Austrian guy invented it - play one site of your deck with 1-10 or 7-19, 9, 14, 16 are always allowed - only new sites may be used.

This means that you can play:

- Standard format (new fellowship and new shadow)
- a mix of a new fellowship and a old shadow
- a mix of an old fellowship and a new shadow

only new sites can be used... all The One rings can be used... all alternative Ringbearer can be used...

I think, it is so simple!

Concerning x-list: Expanded X-list have to be taken; though at our last tournament we made a modification as Saruman Keeper of Isengard was allowed that the old Uruk-Hai had a chance to smash newer fellowships with Savagery to match their numbers up... and so on...

And please do not forget the most important things:

- Keep everything simple - avoid to much specifications
- give most of the people the chance to participate a tournament
- find a format/rules to keep everything fair and balanced

I think the Austrian Format covers those things best...

[King89]

i love it to play this format, especially while using an old shadow site and a new fellowship or the other way round! the best idea olorin has ever had .

[Smeagollum]

No, Olorin is excluding the old sites. However this is not fair, because some decks need these sites. There are cards that only work on old sites. Think about frodo''s cloak, the conditions for ringbound man, Balrogcondition, some Sauronconditions, a certain Sauron troll... etcetera. I agree that in this system the old bridge should be banned. But I see only this site as a real problem.

So I suggest either a ruling which allows the old sites or a ruling so that the cards can be used.

I will send Bert a pm to convince him to take one of my decks for the new cards. I know a very nice one for him

[Olorin]

...hmm... using old sites... I know, that certain cards works with them... but I think it's getting so confused...

[Smeagollum]

Okay, then I suggest that site symbols for tt- and rotk- sites will be ignored.

By the way in Amsterdam we tested this system and it does work and it's not that complicated. And it could be nice to be tested in a tournament!

[Olorin]

Okay, then I suggest that site symbols for tt- and rotk- sites will be ignored.

By the way in Amsterdam we tested this system and it does work and it's not that complicated.

I personally thought in the past about ignoring those symbols for tt and rotk... hmm... I have to look over that...
...what do you guess: how many cards have those special symbols got? (in summary tt and rotk?)

[Smeagollum]

not more then 15 I guess.. I need to see that at home..

I know of one balrogcondition from tt-block
one saurontroll from rotk
at least one sauroncondition from tt
3 gondorconditions from tt (regarding ringboundman)
I thought 1 raidercondition
Frodo's cloack

That's so far I can think of

[Elrohir]

 

Firstly: How do you want to play the old sites? Be aware of Hobbit Farmer, Silinde, Uruviel, Maid of Lorien

Secondly: Austria Format is a melange between movieblock and standard. So this was ok. But we can not say to play old cards, but bann bridge, just because it is too good! Either allow all "allowed cards" or bann all "banned cards". A subjectiv selection would be more than unbalanced, complicated and unfair.

Edit: I had had asked how movieblock is played. Now I know it. thanks GE 

[Gil-Estel]

Yeah, in the Fellowship block cards referring to sites didn't have a symbol, but they kinda should. So that would increase the number of cards enormously...

Movieblock, dude....FotR, TT and RotK combined, walking on RotK sites...Reflections can be included...

[Elrohir]

How does Goldberry work on movieblock?? (about participating in archery in skirmishes?)

[Gil-Estel]

I would say she doesn't, because without a special sign, her homesite is site 2 fellowship. But I don't know whether there has been a clarrification..

[Kralik]

I would say she doesn't, because without a special sign, her homesite is site 2 fellowship. But I don't know whether there has been a clarrification..

That is correct. And, flavor wise, it makes sense that she is Home 2 (Fellowship). Way back there.
On the topic of playing with old sites... don't forget the ridiculous combination of Ettenmoors* + certain Nazgul...

[Gate Troll]

On the topic of playing with old sites... don't forget the ridiculous combination of Ettenmoors* + certain Nazgul...

Or Ettenmoors* + Orc Slaughterer .

[Gil-Estel]

Ettenmoors and healing nazgul are way worse...infinitive strength....and everyone here likes the sound of infinitive right? Exert +2 heal, exert +2 heal......love it...

[King89]

No, Olorin is excluding the old sites. However this is not fair, because some decks need these sites. There are cards that only work on old sites. Think about frodo''s cloak, the conditions for ringbound man, Balrogcondition, some Sauronconditions, a certain Sauron troll... etcetera. I agree that in this system the old bridge should be banned. But I see only this site as a real problem.

So I suggest either a ruling which allows the old sites or a ruling so that the cards can be used.

I will send Bert a pm to convince him to take one of my decks for the new cards. I know a very nice one for him Smiley

...but it's more difficult to "develop" a certain well-working format, then making suggestions how it might works better ;-)
and i have to agree at the point that using old sites would confuse too many players...
finally you can play block format if you want to use fs / ttt oder rotk sites.

[Ringbearer]

Ettenmoors and healing nazgul are way worse...infinitive strength....and everyone here likes the sound of infinitive right? Exert +2 heal, exert +2 heal......love it...

Ulaire Enquea, Thrall of the One.... exert, hela to add burden, exert, heal to add burden....

[TheJord]

Site 2 win...

[NappyKorn]

Well 1 thing wrong with Ulaire Enquea, Thrall of the One and Ettenmoors.

Ettenmoors states you can exert your character to make it strength +1, BUT it can't be an enduring Character and we all know Ulaire Enquea, Thrall of the One is infact ENDURING.

Ettenmoors and healing nazgul are way worse...infinitive strength....and everyone here likes the sound of infinitive right? Exert +2 heal, exert +2 heal......love it...

Ulaire Enquea, Thrall of the One.... exert, hela to add burden, exert, heal to add burden....

....but then again maybe I missed something here, I onl;y read the topic from the top of this page .

[TheJord]

Read the Movie block Ettenmoors*!

[NappyKorn]

I thought movie block still had to use King block sites though.

[TheJord]

They are talking about using old sites in this Austria format, which uses new sites. So to allow people with old sites only to play, but as you can see it is cropping up some problems (Ettenmoors Enquae auto win, Balrog, DoM at -6 from draw deck!!!)

[NappyKorn]

Yeah it appears that they will make Austrian format broken or OP if they use rules like this. I talked with Olorin82 the other day and mentioned I liked the idea of this format (even back when G-E was mentioning it to me), but trying to make it more playable to others without the proper sites will infact ruin it. Better to just stick with your normal site path as they aren't that hard to get f you buy a few starter decks and such . Anyway go Austrian format, me likes. I will try to introduce it to Ulmo and CCCORNIV if/when we get together for a gaming day .

[Elrohir]

Yeah it appears that they will make Austrian format broken

Exactly what I think  That is too much! Austria-Format is perfect as it was. Standard and block Formats are perfect.
Expanded and Open are broken.
The best would be to play standard or Austria Format.

[TheJord]

I dont know about Expanded being broken.... I have rarely come across a deck that can deliver a swift death, as all the Free Peoples decks are so much harder. But if you go in with a casual deck against a well designed Expanded deck, get the buckets out coz it will hurt.

Open on the other hand is terrifying

[NappyKorn]

I agree with TJ about Expanded, not broken, but difinitely a good challenge. The strength of the shadow kills in expanded can be countered but the strengths of a well built freeps . Of course everyone has an opinion and everyone here deserve one. If you don't like a particular format you can just avoid the play. A good opponent will respect that and feels comfortable playing in any format (except for maybe open where it is just a race to get your loop before the opponent ).

Anyway the more formats that can come out of this game will only make it stronger. Hats off to those with ideas for new formats .

[TheJord]

I like the way it involves old and new players, especially as getting a PC and new cards still seems some way off.

[Olorin]

...seems it causes the expected troubles...

...any volunteers to build and then testing/playing those decks and reporting back to us???

...and yeah... open format is just horrible...

...but maybe, if I am/we are doing more work on "PR" for this format... it may get well established... who knows... ;-)

[Smeagollum]

A lot of questions!

1. Elrohir, There is a lot of sightseeing in Amsterdam and also a lot of longbottomleaf (but not in   two klaveren, otherwise I don't have a judge).
2. Yes CS is the right trainstation. From there you take tram 13 to elizabeth Wolfstraat. then walk 100 meters further and you will be there.
3. About using old sites. I don't agree with you. What you can say is that the new version of a site is the regular version. That means that an old version of bridge and ettenmoors can not be played.

4. how many people. Well a lot of people are not very clear. I asked to pm me so that I can make a list. so far 2 people responded on that. A few people said on the other tread that they would come and I know of hw many people from our group (amsterdam) will play.

amsterdam:
Henk Maul,
Martijn Goedhart,
Andre (don't know his last name)
Menno Kronenburg
Mo ten Have
Erwin
Myself

resonded by pm:
Mctonno
ringbearer (if he agrees to my suggestion)

responded on thread:
Bas Melis (with 2 friends)
Jeroen Kassenberg
Marcel Mathijssen
Gil Estel (I asume with friends)
Elrohir (with 2 friends?)

Possible:

Chris Goedhart
Peter Jackson
Andy Serkis


well maybe not the last 2... but people are allowed to dream don't they
Judge:

Marc Hameleers


So round about 20. If people are not on the list please MAIL me!!!