Return to Its Master

[Kralik]

This card is a gem -- it really is! But because of the wording I need to make sure I'm reading it correctly. My take on it is something like this:

Return to Its Master:
Cost: Spot the Ring-bearer wearing the One Ring at the end of a skirmish phase
.....to.....
Effect: Cancel all remaining skirmishes and assign a Nazzie to the RB (Ring text does not apply)

So here's the question: If there is only one Nazgul on the table, taking the first skirmish, and he dies, can the card be played to cancel all remaining skirmishes?

I think it can because you do as much of the effect as possible.

Let me know.

[ket_the_jet]

I think that it only cancels the skirmishes if you can assign a Nazgul to the Ring-Bearer. But I could be wrong.
-wtk

[Kralik]

Cancel assignments comes first in the card text.

You'd have to cancel a Nazgul's assignment first to reassign it anyway, so it has to be done in that order.

[ket_the_jet]

But you asked if the Nazgul dies...I feel like when he dies you could not really...well...now I don't know!

Edit: What was the precedent with Sting, Bane of the Eight Legs?
-wtk

[Thranduil]

If the Ring-bearer wears The One Ring at the end of a skirmish phase, cancel all remaining assignments and assign a Nazgul to skirmish the Ring-bearer; The One Ring's game text does not apply during this skirmish.

The Ring-bearer wearing The One Ring is not quite a cost - it's the trigger that RtoiM responds to. It's unclear whether a trigger is a cost, but it seems to me that it better fits a requirement, which therefore must be met before you can begin to meet its costs. This seems to be consistent with the response rules.

Having said that, I'm not sure it's important for this particular card. The rest of its text reads like an effect to me, in which case you would be right. But it is very unclear, and you should get a real opinion.

Thranduil

[Kralik]

Having said that, I'm not sure it's important for this particular card. The rest of its text reads like an effect to me, in which case you would be right. But it is very unclear, and you should get a real opinion.

Well, as far as gameplay goes, it is very important to a certain deck of mine. Let's see what other opinions roll in.

[Elgar]

My opinion is that the cancel all skirmishes and assign a Nazgul to skirmish the RBer are effects of that event, and therefore it can be used to cancel all skirmishes even if there is no Nazgul left in play (assuming you met the requirements [RBer wearing the one ring])

[ket_the_jet]

With Sting, Bane of the Eight Legs, you have to survive the skirmish to be able to use the text. Just a comment.

It's a good deck.
-wtk

[Kralik]

It's a good deck.
-wtk

Don't you be giving anything away now...   

[Alazzar]

Actually, if you go with the ruling that the Nazgul doesn't still need to be in play, then... why did there ever need to be a Nazgul in play in the first place?  If you go with this ruling, you could theoretically put Return to its Master into a deck that doesn't even have any Nazgul, and it would be playable (so long as the Ring-bearer is wearing the Ring, of course).

As far as my opinion goes, I don't see why you can't play the card without a Nazgul in play.  After all, doesn't the comprehensive rulebook say something about "completing as much of the effect as possible"?  You can't assign a Nazgul, but you can sure cancel all remaining assignments!

[Kralik]

Usually it's easier to get the ring on with Nazgul.

[Not a Zombie]

Uruk hia work too

[jdizzy001]

If there is one nazgul on the table and he dies, but the rb is wearing the ring then yes, you would cancel the remaining skirmishes, I'm assuming there are more non-nazgul minions on the table, but why would you use it if all your nazzies are dead?

[Not a Zombie]

you will see if you ever play him

[Kralik]

you will see if you ever play him

[jdizzy001]

I'd die.

[FingolfinFinwe]

Dangit tells us already!!!      

[Not a Zombie]

All I will say is that it is truly brilliant and I'm making it in RL

[ket_the_jet]

I think I might make it in real life too.

But, not to give it away, but after you know what is coming it is much easier to avoid in future games.
-wtk

[Elessar's Socks]

I think the format for response actions is trigger -> effect (sometimes trigger -> cost -> effect), and you must perform as much of the effect as possible, so IMO it works.

And come to think, I never did figure out what fiendish scheme you had with Sam, Faithful Companion...

[Kralik]

And come to think, I never did figure out what fiendish scheme you had with Sam, Faithful Companion...

Free shuffling with the likes of Dear Friends and The Underdeeps of Moria.

[LorienGuardian]

Hi all. I played a game with this guy who calls himself wtk in gccg. And he used Return to It's Master,  and that would kill my ringbearer. BUT, since he had two minions down, Gollum and a Nazgul, it became quite unclear on what would happen. Legolas was winning the skirmish vs. Gollum and had Bow of the Galadhrim, since both gollum and the Nazgul were exhausted, they both would die.
wtk then uses Return to It's Master, and my ringbearer being exhausted due to maneuver events and him wearing the ring, means he can reassign the Nazgul, or so he claims.

I then went to read the rulings, and since Return to It's Master can be played in the end of a skirmish phase, I wanted to find out when you could call a skirmish phase ending.

Well the rules state that the skirmish only ends after all actions triggered by the winning/losing of  that skirmish has taken place. It also states that after both players have passed, you move on to revolving the skirmish, and that the losing side (if not overwhelmed) takes wounds.

Then there's the actions of winning/losing the skirmish, and only then can the skirmish end, alas that the ending.

So I tell this guy what the rules says, but he keeps refusing and says that the skirmish is cancelled so gollum takes no wounds and I can't use the bow.

Well since the card says cancel all remaining assignments, it won't cancel the skirmish because it's over already. I then looked for errata/clarifications on the card, and it only says that an extra skirmish is created, which means.. that theoretically you can have a Witch-King, LoA fighting aragorn, then use return to it's master to fight frodo, then it's fierce skirmishing Aragorn again and if the  ringbearer still wears the one ring, and you have another copy of Return to It's Master he can then have his 4th fight with Frodo, which is very neat.

HOWEVER!! The skirmish is NOT cancelled, and the wound(S) ARE STILL assigned to the minion/companion and ALL effects of winning/losing (like Bow of the Galadhrim's effect) ARE STILL performed BEFORE you can say that it's THE END of the skirmish.

Just wanted to clarrify what the rulings say (:

If any of you knows something that I don't that says the opposite, then please tell me.

Lórien Guardian aka. Mikkz021

[MR. Lurtzy]

A skirmish phase ends after all actions triggered by winning or losing that skirmish have resolved

I would say that the nazgul and gollum would be killed before return to its master could be used.

[LorienGuardian]

Good day to you Mr. Lutzy and what a wonderful day it is (:

LórienGuardian

[RedGoldStag]

I agree with Mr. Lurtzy -- both Gollum and the Nazgul die, and there is no opportunity to play Return to Its Master. According to Page 6 of the Comprehensive Rulebook, "A skirmish phase ends after all actions triggered by winning or losing that skirmish have resolved." Placing wounds on the losing character(S) and responses to winning like the Bow of the Galadhrim would both take place before the end of the skirmish phase, which is when Return to Its Master is played.

[Thranduil]

I agree with Mr. Lurtzy -- both Gollum and the Nazgul die, and there is no opportunity to play Return to Its Master. According to Page 6 of the Comprehensive Rulebook, "A skirmish phase ends after all actions triggered by winning or losing that skirmish have resolved." Placing wounds on the losing character(S) and responses to winning like the Bow of the Galadhrim would both take place before the end of the skirmish phase, which is when Return to Its Master is played.

As far as I know, this is correct.

[ket_the_jet]

I stand corrected. Could've just played His Terrible Servants as well and avoided this whole mess!
-wtk

[Kralik]

I concur, all wounds must be placed before RtIM can be played. Though in your particular situation, ket could still play it for no effect if he really wanted, since the RB still wears the ring at the end of a Skirmish.

[Ringbearer]

I suspect some regroup actions.... maybe IsenOrcs or wraiths

[Linarfin]

This is an interesting discussion, however I have one more question about this card that hasn't been discussed. "The One Ring's game text does not apply..", what exactly does this mean? Is Frodo still wearing the ring during the special skirmish or not? Is he getting +1 strength from the ring?

[Legion]

Game Text is what's written in the main bit of the card, not the modifiers to the left.  Therefore the ring still provides the modifiers, and the Ringbearer is still wearing the ring, but wounds are taken instead of burdens and you cannot use The Great Ring's ability.  AtAR will still provide the vitality bonus, but you don't get strength +2 as the bonus is written in the Game Text