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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:38 pm |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:55 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
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Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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No need to split, it’s still somewhat on-topic. Colorless mana is not better than colored mana, of course. But, for a deck that needs elfs, and cares how many elves you have out, it’s better to have 8 one-mana elves that’ll cost 2-3 dollars TOPS than having 4 Llanowar Elves and 4 Birds of Paradise, which will:
- cost ’round 40 dollars
- not count toward your elf total
- are not Elf spells for stuff like Lys Alana something
- Can not be reaped off the top with Scrying Sheets, shooting you one turn ahead.
And then, if the idea is to go Forest, Elf for turn 2 Forest, Elvish Harbinger, WHY do you need yet ANOTHER colored mana again? 
Also, painlands are good for 3 reasons:
- They fix colors;
- They do so WHILE not letting you loose speed;
- They do so in color combinations not usually possible (Shivan Reef, for instance).
See, with the Coldsnap Snow-Lands like Arctic Flats, you lose tempo, which is terrible in that color combination specifically, but not very good in some other, for instance, even if you’re playing UW control, you still want to cast that fourth turn Careful Consideration to get ahead, or Wrath of God to stabilize, and if your fourth land drop happens to be one of those, you’re toast. "Oh, but you could play it earlier". Really? Turn one possible optmial plays: suspend Ancestral Vision; Ponder. Turn two: Needs mana open for Broken Ambitions, Rune Snag, Delay or Think Twice. Turn three: needs mana open for Cancel, Ponder + Delay, Broken Ambitions, or flashing back Think Twice. Turn four, dig. See my point? Also, this example helps explaining the OTHER part of my point, which is, did you see any Merfolk I could reveal above? Painlands are not tied to a tribal theme, so you have NO risk of being stuck with a "comes into play tapped" land drop. This is why painlands are so good. Hope I made a good point. |
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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:39 pm |
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| My main problem with painlands are that you have to take damage everytime you want colored mana. Why not use the pay two life lands? They do the exact same thing, only they pay for themselves if you use them for their colored mana twice. I prefer them over painlands everyday. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:57 pm |
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Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| And that’s why they DO cost 10 dollars more than painlands (also, notice they have basic land types, although not being basic lands, so a Wood Elves can search out Overgrown Tomb, for instance, or if you play a second Flagstones of Trokair, you can get a Hallowed Fountain and a Godless Shrine, talk about color-fixing!). Sadly, their from Ravnica block, which has rotated out of standard last saturday, after 2 glorious years (we’ll miss you, Ravnica!), so if you want to play at a Standard event (like an FNM), you need to stick with only 10th, Lorwyn and the whole Time Spiral block, which leaves you with painlands as the best speed-wise color fixers. |
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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:05 pm |
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What about the new Lorwyn duals? Those are pretty sweet, if used properly. Matter of fact, they’re the best in their appropriate deck-types, leaving all other duals in the dust!
However, I still like Bouncelands. They set you back 1 mana, but after that, you can guarantee a land for next turn, which is nice when you don’t have a land in hand. And the Lairs.
Hey, can you split this off into a land discussion, because I had some more questions about lands and didn’t wanna clutter EL’s topic. |
-Trade With Me
Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about?
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:36 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
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Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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Done. Tribal Lands ARE superior to both (unless you care about specifically having a Forest AND a Swamp out, for stuff like Tribal Flames, etc), but they’re limited, they only fit well into their specific archetype, and even so, I can still see you having Wren’s Run Packmaster, no hand, and only needing to topdeck a land to make enough wolves to win next turn, and topdecking a tribal land. What elf can you reveal with none in hand? But of course, this is worst-case scenario, and I’d use 4 in a tribal deck with ease.
Bouncelands are great for slower decks and for control decks, but in small numbers. I already discussed the tempo loss a while back, if you want, I can try to find the discussion again and re-post it here, but I think you WERE a part of it. |
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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:46 pm |
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I was. Now, the big question I have is, WHAT LANDS ARE THERE? I though I had them figured out until I found Lairs, and then I found Mox and signets (okay, technicall artifacts), and then there are lands that morph into creatures, hideaways, tribals, bouncelands, painlands, the original dual lands, snow dual lands, those ones that can tap to add one of three colors.
So basically, I need a run-down on what kinds of non-basic lands there are. the ones that have multiples that fall into those categories, and their uses. |
-Trade With Me
Add the popcorn smiley to your sig, help it achieve world domination.
What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about?
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:57 am |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
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Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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You can’t be serious... Search Gatherer, everything is there.
Off the top of my head, I can give you the REALLY GENERIC types (certain lands can fall udner more than one category at once, and that some of those names are used to refer to only a certain cycleof lands, but we can "expand" it a little):
Basic Lands - Duh.
Snow - Lands that are snow-covered. The only effect beisdes triggering snow-caring cards is paying for mana costs with  , which can be a mana of ANY color, but produced by a snow SOURCE (so Boreal Druid counts).
Duals - Lands that have two basic land types and provide mana from both colors.
Slow Duals: Lands that provide mana from 2 colors, but either come into play tapped (Tribal Lands COULD fall under this one).
Manlands: Lands that become creatures.
Bouncelands: Lands that return lands to your hand (Lairs and Karoo would fall under this category as well)
Painlands: Deal damage to you whenever you use them for colored mana (Barbarian Ring, City of Brass, etc)
Fetchlands: Get lands from your deck.
Utility lands: Land that have some ability, either instead of or besides adding mana (Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Bazaar of Bagdhad, Library of Alexandria, etc).
Storage lands: Lands that you add counters on them to use later, or that come with counters on them (Hickory Woodlot, Dreadship Reef)
Saclands: Lands that can be sacrificed for an effect, usually mana (but as a generic category, Wasteland could fit in here as well, for instance.)
Hideaways: Lands that let you hide cards (Mosswort Bridge, Safe Haven)
But yeah, as I said, check gatherer for a full insight on it, there are TONS of lands out there that do some crazy stuff (like Dark Depths or Maze of Ith) |
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