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| Elessar's Socks |
![]() Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:11 pm |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 349
Location:
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| Umm... oh geez. *scrolls through* I... agree with TheJord. However if TheJord agrees with NBarden we’ll be in a fix. |
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| Mordor Madness |
![]() Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:08 pm |
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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TheHobbit13 wrote: FingolfinFinwe wrote: My recommendation is to just let her discard so that she’ll feel like she’s doing a good job. This ensures future games. 
But anyways... I tend to agree with NB.
I as well.
Thanks for the info guys, but this is MY account he used to post this question and I make most of the decks used to play around here.  |
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| MR. Lurtzy |
![]() Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:05 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 423
Location: Living with the Governator
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Mordor Madness wrote: TheHobbit13 wrote: FingolfinFinwe wrote: My recommendation is to just let her discard so that she’ll feel like she’s doing a good job. This ensures future games.
But anyways... I tend to agree with NB.
I as well.
Thanks for the info guys, but this is MY account he used to post this question and I make most of the decks used to play around here.
Wow, I could almost understand what you said. |
'On and on old war shall go,
Without respite my blood will flow
O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see
The impossibility of victory.'
MR. Lurtzy's Have/Wants |
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| Mordor Madness |
![]() Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:50 am |
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Sorry, I’ll simplify: My husband, who posted the original question you all are responding to, used my account (meaning the wife’s account) to post the question. Second part: considering the roughly 50+ decks we play with, I (meaning the wife) have created the vast majority of them. And they are good. Neither of us are newbs to the game.
Even simpler: don’t condescend and say "just let her discard so that she’ll feel like she’s doing a good job." We posted the question to get some answers to a question involving what appears to be an unclear action timing sequence. We were hoping for something other than a "look at the girl who doesn’t know how to play" response.
I hope that the thread will continue with comments that include advice, previous rulings, and/or debate. Many of the comments so far have been very good and insightful. Please keep them coming, as so far there does not seem to have been a consensus reached. |
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| lem0nhead |
![]() Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:55 am |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2981
Location: Blood Island
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| Yep socky and TJ got it right. The shadow action start. Play a nazgul to... and as soon as that nazgul is played the border patrol can respond as its criteria has been fulfilled and hence happens before the conditon then gets discarded. |
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
 My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer |
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| Gartax |
![]() Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:11 pm |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 98
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Also, Border text is : If a minion is played....
which is past tense. So you do buckland first then you do border patrol. in this case, if border get discarded... no more border
So NB is right, your husband can’t use border patrol first |
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| bibfortuna25 |
![]() Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:58 pm |
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Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 615
Location: Springfield, OR
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| Wrong, Gartax. Border Patrol is used before Buckland Homestead can discard anything. |
| All cards do what they say. |
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| Mordor Madness |
![]() Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:36 pm |
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Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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bibfortuna25 wrote: Wrong, Gartax. Border Patrol is used before Buckland Homestead can discard anything.
Bib, thanks for the reply. Could you please expand on your reasoning for your answer? Does it have anything to do with the specific wording of the respective cards? |
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| Elessar's Socks |
![]() Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:16 pm |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 349
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A Shadow player attempts to pay the cost for the special ability on Grishnakh, Orc Captain (A 3 vitality minion which reads: "Shadow: Exert Grishnakh twice and spot another  Orc to draw 3 cards..."). After exerting Grishnakh once, the Free Peoples player plays Unheeded to wound Grishnakh ("If a minion exerts, exert an unbound Hobbit to wound that minion.")...
This example taken from the rulebook shows that costs (actions that are costs) can be responded to before the effects happen. Actually, here it goes one step further by interrupting costs before they’re even fully paid.
An optional action is defined as: an action that uses the word “may,” an event, or a special ability.
To draw a further parallel, both Unheeded and Border Patrol are optional actions. Both also begin with "If a minion is played..."
A special ability or event labeled with the word “Response:” indicates that you may perform that action whenever the trigger described in its game text happens.
As far as response timing issues go, the game doesn’t see a difference between a minion being played and a minion exerting. It just sees a trigger happening that can be responded to.
Grishnakh exerts... at this point you can respond to that exertion.
Enquea is played... at this point you can respond to that play.
And at the risk of diving into the abstract (and why I keep clarifying things as "actions that are costs"), an effect isn’t an action, though the effect can consist of actions. In other words, the effect isn’t a required action triggered by the cost, which would mean it must happen before optional ones. Because it’s not, optional (and required) actions like Unheeded and Border Patrol can jump in. I left a full ramble here.
 I’m nowhere as concise as Bib, but hope that helps. |
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